Surely nobody trusts cryptocurrencies and the blockchain... that's exactly why a big part of the banking system is now using the Ethereum blockchain as a credit score storage/data system.
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Surely nobody trusts cryptocurrencies and the blockchain... that's exactly why a big part of the banking system is now using the Ethereum blockchain as a credit score storage/data system.
Never said I have any problems with blockchain as a concept. I think the idea of decentralized trust makes sense for data storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
But, that does not, in any way shape or form, mean that bitcoin is to be treated as an asset like gold. It has *zero* inherent value on its own. One does not use bitcoin by itself. It is merely a vehicle to exchange money - which is why the pricing is asinine.
yes no intrinsic value. like currency. but it isn't legislated as cash or currency. not sure about the u.s. but in australia bitcoin is deemed as property. certainly not as legal tender
with 120 billion of investment into cryptocurrencies...(if that figure is accurate) and the storage of this "value" within the crypto servers / dbases...or however it actually is configured. its just another storage medium like gold. physical gold, why does it have inherent value? you cant eat it. its pretty..it does have industrial uses and...its pretty for jewellery.
crypto feeds into the hardware business. miners invest bucketloads of cash (and energy) into mining rigs to create these data chains... its a clever concept. the ability to convert dollars into crypto and back again. very much like the trading of normal stocks/shares etc. which are also only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
Which is what most people argue. Gold has industry use. It's worth isn't arbitrarily selected. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value on its own. The price comes from having to pay miners compensation for their gfx power.Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsleath
I do think you nailed the rest on the head though. It's pure speculation. It's worth whatever the market says its worth. Problem is there's a strict divergence: some people think it'll literally overtake fiat currency, the rest of us claim blockchain has potential but bitcoin itself is worthless. Maybe there will be a convergence - but I think the reality is a new chain will eventually overtake it that is more efficient and regulated by foreign governments for safe money transfers.
Take the dark web aspects away and I think people will buy in. Having said that, the coin itself is still just a vehicle. It is still worthless.
The industrial consumption of gold is miniscule versus production. It could possibly be used more-often were it not a store of value, but the fact remains that we've done a pretty good job getting by without using much of it in even electronics where it makes lovely contacts and has all kinds of other nifty properties.
Great point. That poeple hoard Bitcoin increases its value in the same way that hoarding gold increases the value of gold. Someone mentioned it's useless as a currency because it's not liquid enough, I see it's potential future as wealth storage more so than currency. Currently I think it would be silly to pay for something with Bitcoin instead of dollars because of its volatility, in the future I think it might be equally silly because the dollar (or any other inflationary currency) never gets more spending power whereas a finite money supply the spending power should always be going up.Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrlordx
The biggest threat to btc and all cryptos is when national banks realize that thier fiat's can be bypassed by thier own citizens. My.belief is that once the central banks stop laughing about how silly cryptos are and see them as a threat to thier own national currencies they will very quickly become banned globally. Only way that doesn't happen is if you happen to live in a country with a commodity based money supply (like gold). To my knowledge no such place exists anymore.
One last thought in my ramble (I seem to be rambling quite a bit lately). It seems to me that many are using btc as wealth storage, NOT currency. As gold hits record highs and bitcoins (while volatile) is doing the same, It makes it hard not to compare the two. The only real differences are 1. Gold will always have a market 2. Bitcoin is much easier to buy & store. The comparison is obviously crazy, but to a person that might be worried about the stability of thier local currency, I could see why someone might want to have a bit of both.
All IMHO, and most likely not too hashed out haven't really thought of this too much so take it easy on me... Just a ramble.
That makes no sense. Why would the market treat something so volitile as means of storing their wealth? You literally just proved my point - it's worthless as a currency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Blockchain itself has a lot of promise. The pricing of bitcoin specifically is asinine.
Like the stock market and the normal fiat currencies aren't volatile... :D
lol well I don't think either one of those regularly swing 10% on a given day :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
but they neither move around so much nor so frequently, so they are less appealing as investments, and nowadays most people just don't want stability, they want to gain something out of everything they do.
one thing i have noticed is that with all types of commodities. for example gold. when you have large price spikes, usually there is a similarly steep price correction (historically, hind sight is excellent etc) can't forecast the future. but i am wary of spikes in the graph with commodities. if crypto holders are lucky, and cryptos seem to be very popular and still in infancy so there is potential for much wider acceptance and investment, the value might just level out and increase more gradually. where is the baseline support level for bitcoin? who knows.
also....with the large ...almost crazy variety of cryptocurrency there is added risk...imo but i dont really know. just my thoughts on it.
I mean, that's because they are backed by real valuations? Stocks return quite well lately; I really don't think gambling on the equivalent of penny stocks is considered a real investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
The equivalent of penny stocks a "stock" that can go up as much as 600% in 24 hours.
Penny stocks.
Keep showing your ignorance.
You mean the way bitcoin and ethereum exploded back when they were valued in the pennies too?Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Please keep showing your ignorance.
problem about crypto currency is its shallow compared to other currencies. This makes it very vulnerable to speculations. But I believe it has an intrinsic value for people who want secrecy and want access to his money every where on earth.
It's a bet against your local currency - just like gold is. I'm not saying it's a good one. Seems people aren't using it for use in their local economy. Thus liquidity in the sense of going out and buying a pack of gum is irrelevant. Market is comprised of speculators yes, but if your country is in the midst or on the brink of hyperinflation - it might be your only lifering to protect your assets.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Agreed, but doesn't that still prove my point that blockchain itself is what's valuable? My understanding is there's already better ones coming off the ground (I believe IOTA is the new popular one), and etherum is already being investigated by industry for secure file transfers. I just don't see how this asset can't be easily implemented outside of bitcoin.Quote:
Originally Posted by kromosto
Very reasonable take. Give you all the credit in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Perhaps you keep showing ignorance and lack of knowledge on the subject.
Tell me something,
What does a 600% currency rate uplift do when you have invested 1M $ on it ?
Straw man argument. It's a deflection from the fact there's nothing backing bitcoin.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Enjoy missing out on the greatest investment opportunity of the 21st century - bummer you can't see the value in it... Try living in a third world country with poor banking/monetary opportunities? Bitcoin has the potential to save the world. Literally.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Who said I haven't made money on it? Just because I think it's a bubble doesn't mean I haven't played the game :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by dstedman
I've always believed the fastest way to make money is to hedge against reddit. Whatever they believe in, ride the bandwagon up and get out just :banana::banana::banana::banana: starts too seem too crazy. Works rather well to be honest.
Of course they're doing well out of mining, Vega 56 is ~$750CAD right now! People keep paying these stupid high prices so don't expect it to change any time soon. At least $800 bought you the top tier card, 10+ years ago.
Ah! Back to the issue of Vega itself. I know a few people that have purchased one of the liquid-cooled models, and it doesn't seem like they mine that well. Maybe 43 MH/s on Ethereum with the right tweaks and using the blockchain drivers.
The cheapest one I've seen recently was $650 USD. Based on the downclocking and voltage reductions they used, I would say the aircooled model - the ones selling for $650 - would do just as well.
According to my current stats, you could earn $64.93 per month before taking power costs into account mining with one of these cards. And that's current rates. Difficulty will go up, so profit may go down. Can you say hello to your 10-month RoI? I knew you could! And that's if you're lucky.
Well i bought V56 for 422Eur, so like , ALMOST msrp here :) . In europe i would say they are plenty available , however these 100$+ versions, so a V56 is 499$+VAT V64 is 599$+Vat. From what ive read, they are 1) fastest in ethereum but not best power/H, however in cryptonight they are the best.I bought it to game, AND mine in spare time so ROI is kinda bonus for me. I would either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrlordx
So like i said, i have preliminary numbers for Vega 56 and monero mining.
First off, i put the card as a second one not connected to any display atm, as i have a dvi TV link and this card doesnt have any dvi, and as a second one under the rx480 i also have for airflow reasons.
I tried booting from it, but no go, monitor would not start, i THINK its just because its a second gpu in the system and my asrock x99 wants to boot from the first one.
Anyhow.Card feels solid, it is NOT some flimsy plastic shroud, it looks and feels like a quality product. In idle its quiet, so thats pretty much anything that somebody can expect from this type of cooler.
First i set up 1v on gpu, 1v on mem, set 1500gpu/950mhz mem, and did a nicehash monero test, a weak 800 something score :-/, just like my 290x it replaces.At the same 150W.Then i did some reading, changed miner to xmr-stak-amd, changed some things in config file, and boom 1000H/s (around depends on other settings, most it was i think 1050 with 150W).Not bad.But still, nothing earth shattering.
Then i did some more reading, and was surprised to find that people were getting 1200-1700H/s. Seemed weird, and it was rx 64 and 56.Booted up dreaded w10, after some fight with the drivers (i have a modded rx480 as a primary display) i installed blockchain drivers. Set HBCC to 16gig, changed config file a bit more.
And heres the screenshot. Share rejected is only because i used a miner incompatible with the pool for testing purposes only, speed is valid.
http://i68.tinypic.com/110ks9w.png
1880H/s on v56 after just an hour or so of tweaking , i had no time and forgot to check power consumption, but it was at the same settings as before with voltage dropped from 1.2 to 1.025v so i GUESS 150-200W.My main system in 7, 10 is only for testing some things.So i have to find out if HBCC is available in w7/linux...
Its pretty evident vega can be a monster of a cruncher in JUST RIGHT conditions.