Official MSI P7N Diamond (780i) Discussion/Review/Overclock/Guide/BIOS Thread

Hey everyone,

NEW INFO! Quick Update #4 - 5/7/08 - MSI has released a new BIOS (1.1B8) with common voltage settings! vCore is still set the same way (as an amount added to VID,) but this has never really been an issue since figuring out VID has never been a problem. The good news is that the random integers used to set FSB Term, GTL Ref, etc. are gone. In their place are common and meaningful direct voltage settings (i.e. 1.2v.) This should make OCing far easier, as the BIOS settings can now be navigated meaningfully.

Obviously I'll need to re do the suggested settings section with the new voltages. I hope to get my hands dirty with the new BIOS this weekend and will update then. If you've been playing around with 1.1B8, please share your results.

Thanks!

Quick Update #3 - 3/28/08 - Apparently some people are experiencing a performance loss when running a two-card SLI setup with one card in the white PCI-E x16 1.1 slot. One user has reported a drastic change in performance when moving to the two PCI-E 2.0 blue slots, while several others report a gain of 500-700 3DMark points and 1-3fps in most games. I have updated the section about this accordingly.

Update #2 - 3/23/08 - Since the last update, people have found successful OC settings with the E8400 and E8500. However, while the latest beta BIOS (1.1B4) seems to provide the best shot of success, it does appear to be finicky with 45nm chips. MSI is indeed working on updates, and I have no doubt that the majority of issues will be solved in short time as the product matures. In the mean time, I have posted suggested OC settings for the E8400, based on results obtained from members on this thread. Please try with 1.1B4 and P05 and let us know if you've found success. It may be that it takes another update or two before everyone is covered.

Note that we've had one user (BKA) try out a non-extreme Yorkfield with this board (a Q9300,) and while it does work at stock, OC attempts seem to be hampered at the moment by a lack of BIOS support. (In particular, BKA has reported that half-multipliers are missing.) If you are looking to pair this board with a Q9300, Q9450, or Q9550, I would suggest holding off unless you are okay with running at stock for a while. Note that MSI lists these chips as under testing (rather than fully supported at the moment,) and from what we've gathered we can expect full support in an upcoming BIOS shortly.

Lastly, for those new to overclocking in general, I've posted a set of general points to consider. These are not suggested settings, but more-so cover the basics of OCing a Core 2 chip. It's not a full fledged guide, but it should help those new to the hobby get under way. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...178286&page=10 (Page 10, it's the long post...)

As mentioned in that post, the point of this thread is to support the growing P7N enthusiast community and to provide it with a rich information and support library. This can best be obtained by people contributing their successes (so we can learn) and their issues (so we can solve.) Thanks to everyone who has been a part of this thread :) Let's keep it coming!!

Quick Rundown

Motherboard: MSI P7N Diamond
Chipset: nVidia 780i (board is non-reference design)
NB/SB: nVidia 780i SSP / nVidia 570i MCP
Chipset Cooling: MSI Circupipe Design
Compatible With: LGA 775 Pentium 4, D, Core 2 Duo, Quad, and Extreme chips, including 45nm Wolfdale/Yorkfield chips.
FSB: Officially supports up to 1333mhz FSB.
DIMMs: 4x DDR-2 officially supporting up to 1066mhz RAM.
PCI-E: 2x x16 Physical / x16 PCI-E 2.0 electrical, 1x x16 Physical / x16 PCI-E. 1.1 Electrical, 1x x16 Physical / x8 Electrical, 2x x1 Physical / Electrical
PCI: 1x PCI slot.
SATA: 6x on board SATA 2 provided by MCP, 2x additional ESATA provided by jMicron add-on controller.
IDE: 2x IDE Connectors, allowing up to four drives. 1x Floppy drive connector.
On-Board USB/1394: 2 on-board USB headers, 1 on-board Firewire header for front port
Backplate I/O: 1x PS/2 Keyboard, 1x PS/2 Mouse, 6x USB 2, 1x 1394, 2x ESATA, 2x 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Sound: Included Creative X-Fi Xtreme-Audio PCI-E 1 add-in card.
Extras: Clear CMOS button on back plate, on-board power / reset buttons, status LED lights for standby, power, HDD, all PCI-E slots, all RAM DIMMs.

MSI Product Page

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...2&maincat_no=1

Reviews & Product Tours

TigerDirect Product Tour (link via YouTube) -- More of an "infomercial," but he does give a good tour of the board's features.

Digital-Daily -- Looks to be an English review from a Russian enthusiast site.

Known Issues

- Kentsfield Quads wont operate with a reduced multiplier on the shipping BIOS or betas 1.1B1-1.1B4. Performance BIOS P05 resolves this.

- Overclocking a QX9650 may result in sporadic cold-boot failures. Beta BIOS 1.1B4 is known to resolve this for some, but others are still experiencing an issue. MSI is aware of the problem and should be working towards a fix.

- Users of optical SATA drives may experience blue-screens relating to an NVGTS.SYS driver in Windows XP 32-bit. This is a known issue across all nForce boards. To eliminate it, first try moving the drive's SATA cable to a different port. If this doesn't resolve it, you will need to uninstall your nVidia motherboard drivers. With all drivers removed (except for display if using a GeForce card,) re-install your drivers except for SATA / MediaShield. This will allow your drives to rely on the built in Windows XP SATA drivers, resolving the issue.

BIOS

- Shipping BIOS is v1.0, dated 1/15/08. No new released BIOSes are available yet.
- Current beta BIOS is 1.1B8. This BIOS is a recommended download, as it swaps the nonsensical integer voltage values with meaningful settings. Perfomance / reliability data is still pending, but expect it to be on par if not better than 1.1B6 / P07.
- Current performance BIOS is P07, based off of 1.1B6. This BIOS is known to solve multiplier issues with Yorkfield / Wolfdale chips. P09, which should carry over 1.1B8's new voltage settings, should be out shortly.

Beta and Performance BIOSes are available from the MSI forums. Note that you need to register in order to download these BIOSes. Once registered, see the "User Modified BIOS" sub-forum, availble from the "Overclockers & Modding Corner" forum. Beta and performance BIOSes are also available from MSI forum moderators, as well as from MSI support.

Overclocking Tips

Disable Features: As always, be sure to disable OC-hindering features before overclocking. In the CPU Feature menu (accessible from Advanced BIOS Features,) disable Execute Bit Support, C1E Support, Set Limit CPUID MaxVal to 3, and CPU TM function. If you do not see all of these options in the menu, press F4. In the Cell Menu, disable D.O.T. Control, Intel EIST Speed Spectrums, and Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Frequency. Lastly, for best results, set SLI-Ready Memory to EXPERT if available, and System Clock Mode to MANUAL.

Keep a 1:1 Divider between RAM and FSB: When overclocking, it is best to keep a 1:1 ratio between RAM and FSB, such that the base FSB speed = the base RAM speed. On reference nForce boards, a 1:1 ratio can automatically be obtained by setting RAM to "linked and synced." However, setting your System Clock Mode to LINKED on the P7N diamond does not result in a 1:1 ratio. To keep a 1:1 ratio when overclocking, you must set System Clock Mode to manual and do some math.

The math, fortunately, is rather simple. The important thing to remember is that the numbers set in the BIOS for FSB and RAM are rated, or multiplied speeds. The rated FSB speed set in the BIOS is the quad-pumped speed, so it is 4x the base FSB speed you want to match. The RAM speed is the double-data-rate speed, so it is 2x the base RAM speed you want to match. To keep a 1:1 ratio, simply set RAM to 1/2 your set FSB speed.

Below are some examples of popular 1:1 ratios, as set in the P7N BIOS.

* FSB = 1066, RAM = 533 (base speeds: 266mhz)
* FSB = 1333, RAM = 667 (base speeds: 333mhz)
* FSB = 1600, RAM = 800 (base speeds: 400mhz)
* FSB = 1800, RAM = 900 (base speeds: 450mhz)

Know your CPU's VID: The P7N has an odd way of setting vCore (your processor's voltage.) Unlike other boards where you simply set the voltage you wish to pump to your CPU (i.e. 1.3v, 1.45v, etc,) the P7N has you set the amount of voltage increase (i.e +0.0500 to stock, +0.1000 to stock, etc.) In order to know how much voltage you've set in the BIOS, you must know your CPU's default voltage. This is called VID, and is unique to each and every Core 2 CPU.

To find your processor's VID, you must use either Core Temp, Everette Ultimate Edition, or (I believe) CPUID Hardware Monitor. Each of these programs can be downloaded from the Internet, but note that Everette is trial-ware and may not display VID w/o paying for the full version. On a Conroe or Kentsfield processor, your VID will most likely be within the range of 1.2000v to 1.3500v. On the popular Q6600 G0, VID will likely not exceed 1.3250v, with most coming in around the 1.2500-1.2750 mark. On 45nm chips, VID will be lower, often below 1.2000v.

The amount of voltage sent to your CPU (according to the BIOS) is VID + the amount set in the BIOS. If you leave vCore on AUTO, then the VID amount is sent. Unlike the reference boards, the P7N will not guesstimate an increased voltage to match your overclock when vCore is left on AUTO. Note that this explanation does not account for vOffset or vDroop, which is explained below in its own section.

North Bridge Cooling: One of the more impressive aspects of the P7N Diamond is that the North Bridge seems to run genuinely cooler than on other 780i boards. While it won't run at breezy P35/X38 levels, NB heat shouldn't be as much of a concern on this board as on others.

Note that as of now, there is no easy way to accurately read the NB temp. The BIOS, the latest version of Everest, and HW Monitor report a MB temp, which according to MSI, is taken from near the center of the motherboard. You can feel for a hot NB (quite literally) by placing your hand on the NB heat pipe. If it feels too hot to touch for a short period of time, then your NB is running hotter than it should. (Note that this is not necessarily the case with other 780i boards, as they may naturally run too hot to touch w/o aftermarket cooling.) In this case, you may want to inspect the motherboard's heat pipe. Make sure that it's making proper contact with the board in all areas. Furthermore, you might want to remove the heat pipe all together and inspect the TIM. Often times, the TIM is applied poorly from the manufacturer, and replacing it can greatly reduce operating temps. If you do replace it, consider using an alternative to AS5, such as Arctic Silver Ceramique. AS5 is slightly conductive and can cause damage to your board if any of it gets where it shouldn't. If you use AS5, do not use it on the MOSFETS, as these are particularly sensitive components.

Lastly, if you plan for a high OC, you will likely have to raise NB voltage. Even though the NB runs cooler than on other nForce boards, you may still find it worthwhile to buy a small fan to blow air over the heat pipe. An Antec Spot Cool works wonderfully in this regard, as its easy to set up and does a good job. For example, at 1.425v, my NB heat pipe is never too hot to touch and the MB temp does not surpass 50c.

Suggested OC Software It's important to have the right software to monitor temps and stress test. Below is a list of recommended software.

Temp monitoring:

- Core Temp 0.97, Download from http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/. This is perhaps the most popular temperature monitoring program available. Note that the latest version is natively compatible with Vista x64.

- Speed Fan, Download from http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php. This is a popular alternative to Core Temp, but many do believe Core Temp to be more accurate. Speed Fan, on the other hand, will read the board's other sensors and report processor load and voltage. Important: Note that Speed Fan will inaccurately measure G0 stepping temperatures by -15 degrees. If you use this program, you must compensate for this inaccuracy in the settings.

- Everest, Download trial from http://www.lavalys.com/. This is the grand buffet of monitoring and reporting programs, and will tell you everything you could ever want to know about your PC. For temp monitoring, it's on par with Core Temp, but it will also monitor much more. This is trialware however, and you will have to pay to access all features in the full version.

Stress Testing:

Prime 95 25.6, Download from http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=9779. This is the golden standard for stress testing. When you are honing in on your final OC, standard practice is to run the Prime95 Small FFT Torture Test on all of your cores from anywhere between 4 to 24 (or more) hours. (Although I find 8-12 hours to be reasonable unless number crunching is a primary function of your computer.) If running a Quad Core, be sure to run version 25.0 or higher as it will automatically run an instance on each core. Also, be sure to check "Round Off Error Checking" before starting the test. Otherwise many stability errors will go undetected.

OCCT 2.0.0a, Download from http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika_en/. An excellent companion to Prime, OCCT is best used to test NB and RAM stability and for running a quick processor stability test.

Suggested Settings

The following settings are known to support a stable 400mhz FSB when paired with a Kentsfield quad. On a Q6600 at default multiplier, this will result in a 3.6ghz CPU. Note that your results may vary:

FSB: 1600mhz
RAM: 800mhz

vCore: <<entirely dependent on the OC capabilities of your cpu.>>
vDIMM: <<entirely dependant on your RAM. Set to maximum factory setting.>>
vNB: 1.425
vSB: Auto
CPU GTL Ref: 65
FSB Term: 25
All other voltages: AUTO

The following settings are known to support an E8400/E8500 at 4.0ghz and above. Again, the latest BIOS is still finicky when it comes to 45nm chips, so you may not have guaranteed success just yet.

FSB: 1800mhz
RAM: 900mhz

vCore: <<entirely dependent on the OC capabilities of your cpu.>>
vDIMM: <<entirely dependant on your RAM. Set to maximum factory setting.>>
vNB: 1.4
vSB: Auto
FSB Term: 63
All other voltages: AUTO


GTLRef doesn't seem to play as large a role here, and it shouldn't, considering it's concern is more with Quad Core cpus. Compared to the Q6600, the key difference here appears to be FSB Term. 65 (vs 25) seems to be the key for E8400s OCs on this board.[

vDroop Info, Mods

vOffset and vDroop do exist and are comparable to other nForce boards, including the reference boards. Expect a -.02 to -.04 drop between what was set in the BIOS to what is reported under idle operation (vOffset.) Expect another -.02 to -.04 drop under load (vDroop.)

At this moment, there is no setting to disable vDroop in the BIOS, nor is there a known physical mod (like the reference board pencil mod.) This section will be updated with new information if and when it becomes available.

Other, Misc

Two Card SLI: The manual states that for a two-card SLI setup, both cards must be placed in blue PCI-E 2.0 slots. This is incorrect. One card can use the top blue PCI-E 2.0 slot and the other can use the white PCI-E 1.1 x16 slot with no issues. Instead of using the two short flexible bridge connectors, which won't fit, simply use the one longer bridge connector. You should experience no issue enabling SLI and no performance loss in benchmarks or games. This will allow you to utilize the board's single PCI slot, which otherwise would be covered up by a double-width card in the second blue PCI-E slot.

Note that some have experienced a slight performance loss when running with one card in the white slot (500-700 3dMark points and 1-3fps in games,) while at least one user noticed a more substantial difference. This may be due to the loss of a bridge cable (for GTX / Ultra / 9800 users,) the fact that both cards are no longer communicating over the bridge chip, or both.

If you do want to run this board with a PCI card and 2x SLI, you may first want to see what performance loss, if any, you experience by having one card run in the white slot. 500 points and 1-2fps may not matter much, as I've seen greater performance swings just by switching drivers. However, any difference should be considered when making an evaluation for a long-term setup.

Update History

03/09/08 - Update #1 (updated issues list, added OC tips, settings, and vDroop info.)
03/23/08 - Update #2 (Added OC suggestions on NB cooling and useful software. Added E8400 suggested settings and blurb on two-card SLI.)
05/07/08 - Update #4 (new BIOS announcement)

I am the user that reported the cold-boot issues when increasing the multi on my QX9650. MIS sent me two beta bios' to try, but they only made the problem worse. With the beta's, my Logitech G15 (rev 1) keyboard would not always initialize. I would have to wait until Vista loaded, then unplug it and plug it back in. Plus, I had a hard time cold-booting with them, even when using the stock multiplier. If I stay with the shipping bios and leave the multiplier alone, the system is 100&#37; stable.

My goal with this board is to find a thoroughly stable 24/7 operating environment with a Q6600 OC'd to 3.8-4.2ghz and with four to eight gigs of RAM. Achieving this is not always a trivial task on Intel-proc nForce boards, especially when paired with a quad core. If the MSI P7N Diamond can do it w/o a struggle, then it'll have an advantage (in my opinion) over the ASUS boards and the 680i/780i reference designs.

Unlike the reference boards, the P7N features all solid capacitors and a better PWM system. This should help to allieviate the RAM and Northbridge burnout issues so prevelant on the EVGA and XFX reference boards. Note that while the non-reference 680i boards had their own host of problems, they didn't have the same burnout issues, likely due to the better materials used.

Unlike the ASUS 780i boards, most early impressions of the P7N are quite positive, noting that the board is easy to work with and OC. The ASUS P5N-T has had some reported compatibilty issues with 45nm processors, while the Striker II has been very hit or miss in supporting even moderate overclocks.

Right now I have the board running on top of its box, with components taken from my main rig. So far, I've been pleased, as setting everything up has been a plug-and-play experience w/o the slightest issue. I started with a never used Q6600 G0 L737B266 proc, 1 DIMM of 2 GIG PC-6400 OCZ SLI RAM, a single 8800 GTX card, a Lite-On IDE DVD+-RW drive, and a SATA WD 250 Gig hard disk. With Windows XP installed, I began adding my other components, and now the motherboard is supporting nearly my entire rig, with the exception of a three extra HDs and another DVD burner.

.. unpacking the box ..

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1904/img6049we1.jpg

.. everything installed (note the board in the case is an evga 680i, the p7n is on the box) ..

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6738/img6072ix0.jpg

As seen in the pic (or not, thanks to the GTX cards,) a second DIMM of RAM, a second 8800 GTX, and a Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum card have been installed. Again, I've been impressed so far with my experience, as everything works without issue. Even the troublesome X-Fi is behaving perfectly.

Note: The P7N manual states that a 2-card SLI setup must use the blue PCI-E 2.0 slots to function properly. I used one blue slot and one PCI-E 1.1 x16 slot (the white one,) so that I have room to install my PCI X-Fi card, which is better than the included PCI-E card (although the PCI-E card is still very good for included audio.) Note that I had no issue enabling SLI and that it appears to be working properly.

The BIOS is from American Megatrends -- the setup is logical and the feature set is rich, with far more voltages to tweak than either a reference 680i or 780i board. The only real negative I can comment on at this moment is that the BIOS interface lags more than the Award interface on the reference boards. Nothing too bothersome, but still noticeable.

One odd function of this BIOS, however, is how vCore is set. Unlike other voltages in this BIOS and unlike vCore settings in other common BIOSes, you don't set an actual voltage. Instead, you set an allocated increase from the default voltage. This means that when OCing, you must know your chip's VID in order to gauge how your chip compares to others. Unfortunately, this information is not available from the BIOS, as the default VID is represented by the AUTO setting. Therefore, as I OC beyond what my chip can handle at stock voltage, I'll need to do some simple addition to calculate how much actual voltage I'm sending to the chip.

Another thing I've noticed is that your only options for setting RAM speed are Auto, Manual, or Linked. When choosing Linked mode, there does not appear to be a means to choose a divider, and the default divider under Linked mode does not appear to be 1:1 / Synced. When I upped the FSB to 333mhz (represented in the BIOS by a quad-pumped setting of 1333,) Linked mode had my RAM set to 532mhz (266 actual.) To maintain a 1:1 relationship, I had to set RAM speed to Manual and input 667mhz. Now this may be an error that will be fixed in an upcoming BIOS. At worst, all this means at the moment is that some more simple math is needed to keep a 1:1 divider when OCing.

Preliminary OC Results

With the system still running on top of the box and with the stock cooler attached to the CPU, I tried a modest OC to ensure that the board posts correctly on non-stock settings.

I simply bumped the FSB from 1066mhz to 1333mhz for 3.0ghz proc, set RAM to 667mhz for a 1:1 relationship, and set vDIMM to my RAM's stock of 2.0v. I left all other voltages on auto and I left RAM timings to SLI (EPP) optimized settings. Note that when vCore is on Auto, the MSI board will leave it on the processor's default voltage. This is different from the behavior of the reference boards, which try to guesstimate an appropriate voltage for your OC. I must say that I prefer MSI's approach, since a motherboard's guess at vCore is rarely accurate or helpful.

With the FSB set and the RAM voltage set, I saved settings and booted into Windows w/o issue. After a quick 10 minute Prime95 test to ensure that the chip could handle 3ghz on stock voltage, I set out to do some benchmarking. Here are my results:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9...am66xg2.th.jpg

(Please click above for a larger, readable image)

Certainly not too shabby for a first-run, modest OC.

As for temps, the cores were at what one would expect with the stock cooler. Idles in the 30s, with 10 minutes Prime95 bringing them up into the high 50s, low 60s. Again, 3ghz is likely as far as the stock cooler can handle, so of course I'll be putting this board into my case and hooking the cpu to my water loop for further benching.

What did impress me during this run, however, was the chipset cooling. Note that as of now, an accurate reading of NB and SB temps is not possible. The BIOS only reports a system temp, and neither Everette or any other program I could find is currently configured to read the temps of these specific chips. However, throughout the prime run and the benchmarks, the system temp did not pass 52c (with ambient at 21c.) Furthermore, and most importantly, the chipset cooling pipes remained relatively cool compared to other 680/780 chipset heatsinks/pipes (and good contact between the pipes and the chips has been confirmed.) By relatively cool, I do mean that they were of course warm, but they were certainly not scorching, as is often reported the case on other 780i boards. By another comparison, the pipes were no warmer than the bottom of my Yonah-based Macbook Pro on a typical day, and considerably cooler than my Macbook Pro after intensive use.

So far I've seen one other impression stating that the P7N manages to keep the 780i's SSP and MCP relatively cool, and my preliminary tests do seem to support this. We'll see how things keep as I reach for higher OCs, but so far what I've seen is encouraging, especially knowing that the cooling mechanism is entirely passive.

Next Steps

With my prelim OC out of the way, my next step is to move the board into my case and hook up some beefy cooling. Given my schedule this week, I doubt I'll have new results for a couple of days, but when I have the time to bench, I'll be posting results right here.

Thanks for reading :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shawn1998

I am the user that reported the cold-boot issues when increasing the multi on my QX9650. MIS sent me two beta bios' to try, but they only made the problem worse. With the beta's, my Logitech G15 (rev 1) keyboard would not always initialize. I would have to wait until Vista loaded, then unplug it and plug it back in. Plus, I had a hard time cold-booting with them, even when using the stock multiplier. If I stay with the shipping bios and leave the multiplier alone, the system is 100&#37; stable.

---

Shawn, do you know the VID of your QX9650? You can get it from CoreTemp under the VID label.

Looks sweet dude, can't wait to see the rest of your results! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theYipster

Shawn, do you know the VID of your QX9650? You can get it from CoreTemp under the VID label.

---

CoreTemp says my VID is 1.0000 volts. The P7N defaults the vcore at about 1.21 volts, though. I have upped it as far as 1.35 volts when I try a 10X multiplier, but still the cold-boot issues. Btw, I use cpu-z to verify what the vcore is...

Hmm... I've seen you post about this issue in several threads, but I haven't seen anyone else try to OC a QX9650 with this board.

Just a thought, but have you tried reaching the same speed by upping the FSB? if 333x10 = 3.33ghz, try for a 370 FSB (1480 in BIOS) at the stock x9 multiplier. If that doesn't cause the same cold boot issues, and if you can adjust the voltage on your proc (if necessary) such that 3.33ghz is stable, then you can at least confirm that the multiplier issue is BIOS or board related.

Good point. I am able to adjust the voltage on the P7N without an issue. If I up it in the bios, it reads accordingly in cpu-z, so that is not the issue. I'll go try that now and see if I can get it stable...

I upped the FSB to 1440 and had the ram set to 800 and could not reboot from the bios. It would not post. I tried it lower even, no post. I upped voltages, relaxed ram timings and nothing worked. I had to clear the cmos each time just to get back into the bios. I am wondering if I don't have a bum board because this really stinks!

Hmm... That's not very encouraging. On the other hand, it may be that nothing is wrong with your BIOS or mobo, and that some other aspect of the system is preventing you from OCing. Probing deeper, I notice that you have 8 gigs of RAM in this system. That's going to put a good deal of stress on the north bridge of any chipset, nVidia or Intel. Try 1440 for the FSB again, and keep RAM at 800mhz. Also, try upping the NB voltage by, a step up until say 1.4-1.45 and see if that gets you stable. Alternatively, the FSB Termination voltage may need a kick. I haven't played with that voltage on this board, but on the reference boards, 1.4v was a good bet to get 1600mhz stable, and sometimes 1.5v would be needed. If bumping up the NB voltage doesn't solve anything, take a look at your FSB termination voltage. I'd imagine NB needs at least 1.4v however with 8 gigs of RAM.

I haven't changed my sig, but I took out two sticks this morning, so I tried it with only 4 gig installed. FSB termination voltage on this board is very confusing, I have no idea what the value actually means, as it doesn't indicate voltage, but rather a number value, ie 1, 2, 3 etc... Any insight as to what I shoud set it to to start? I have the NB running at 1.30 now, up from the stock 1.2 volts it defaults to. I'll try to up it a bit...

Edit: I have the FSB running at 1400, memory at 800, vcore at 1.258, NB voltage at 1.35 and FSB Terminatot voltage at 11. I was able to reboot and am now in Vista. I don't know if it was the FSB Terminator or NB voltage bump that worked. I would really like to find out what the FSB Terminator values equate to in voltage.

Glad to here you've got it working. My guess is that NB voltage is more responsible for your success than FSB termination, but I could be wrong, as I haven't really explored those two settings on this board yet. The next step is to see if you can now reliably up the multiplier with those voltages in place.

As for the FSB termination setting, note that the reference boards don't have a setting called FSB termination, but instead have one called FSB voltage. It is my understanding that these are the same thing. However, the reference boards (which I'm familiar with) allow you to set a straight voltage, so another system would be just as confusing to me at the moment. In figuring out this setting, I would see if other MSI boards used the same system and read posts about them. Surely someone's covered FSB termination if it exists in the same manner with the P6N, or perhaps one of the P35 or X38 boards.

I am very used to the reference boards, as I only bought this one to hold me over until it comes back from RMA. I am not sure at all if it is actually working as far as cold-boot is concerned, but at least I got it to restart from the bios this time!

Hey there yipster. It's a start but, you need to download and run the correct super pi. Uh it is from right here at XS it is mod 1.5. The old one you are using means nothing as it is overly generous on times and does not break down time enough.

http://www.xtremesystems.com/pi/

That's the address go and get it. Once you get past 3800mhz then I will start to give this a serious look.

WZ

Would not cold boot this morning. I give up.

Before you give up, can you post all your current settings in the cell menu of the BIOS? Perhaps there's something that's overlooked.

WhenI get home this afternoon I will. I have tried everything in that Cell Menu, believe me. I have until Wed morning to figure it out, then it's outta here, one way or another...

I think it's worth one last try, but I'm interested to see if you can get it to work. In the end, it could be a bum board. I too am angered by MSI's response to your issue. From what I've read on the MSI forum, it's not a matter of your board not working above stock, but a matter of your board not supporting the base / advertised features of your processor, despite a claim otherwise on the board's box. If you can't get it to work, I would call them up and complain on those grounds.

I've heard decent things about MSI's RMA policy. It's certainly not as generous as EVGA's, but then again what is? You should have a better chance of getting a new board than you would from say ASUS or ABIT.

I'll be watching this thread with interest, and hopefully I'll be able to contribute. I've got one of these boards on it's way to me now.

I couldn't help but notice you have the mobo sitting on the plastic shipping bag
which is conductive.... I can't believe the board even post.. All the crisscross
black striping on the bag is graphite impregnated for static protection......

Interested in this board beacuse of great layout!!

Ive got eVGA 780I comming soon, but this board can be bought for £165 from OCUK with free X-FI soundcard!

Can i confirm that this PCI-E card can work in the bottom PCI-E slot?? if so would mean two 8800Ultras in the blue PCI-E slots would leave good sized gap between soundcard at the bottom!

Can board handle high FSB?

I have X38 with Q6600 @ 450x8 24/7

Can do 450fsb (1800) stable 24/7 with quads?

Wow, what can I say? Granted I very rarely setup working rigs outside of cases, except to do a quick test or troubleshooting session if something is wrong. This setup is unique, as it's the first time I'm doing a full fledged motherboard review / exploration like this. In any case, the board had no trouble posting from a cold boot multiple times over the last two days, so I doubt that the bag is conductive as I have it. Regardless, it's no longer an issue as the board is now fully installed in my case.

Psycho_Eddie, the bottom (yellow) PCI-E slot is x8 electrical, so it's probably not the best place to put a graphics card, considering that the other PCI-E slots offer considerably more bandwidth. Given that, I haven't tried.

Two GTX or Ultra cards will fit w/o issue in the first two blue PCI-E 2.0 cards. The downside to this setup is that the bottom GTX / Ultra card will block the single PCI slot, which will then require you to use the included PCI-E audio card. The top GTX / Ultra will block one of the PCI-E x1 slots, but the other slot is left open just above the second blue PCI-E x16 slot, and this is where the PCI-E Xtreme Audio card will go.

While the manual states that 2x SLI should use the two blue slots, I had no trouble setting up or using SLI with one card in the first blue slot and one card using the third (white) PCI-E x16 (1.1) slot. This setup keeps the PCI slot free for the legacy X-Fi card, which provides full hardware processing unlike the PCI-E Xtreme Audio card.

Thanks for getting back so quickly, im afraid you missunderstand what i meant

I am going to have 8800GTS SLI in both BLUE slots for PCI-E 2.0 :D

What i wanted to know is the bottom yellow PCI-E slot works with the included soundcard?

If so then will work with a Asus Xonar PCI-E soundcard!

You get me now?


Would provide best thermals/sound solution that way!


Whats stabilty like with this board, max FSB stable your stable OC?

Ok, now I gotcha. I haven't tried a PCI-E audio card in any of the slots since I have the PCI X-Fi, and with everything else I have planned at the moment, the last thing I want to do is create an X-Fi driver mess. However, I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't work in the bottom slot.

As for max FSB stable, that info is yet to come. As mentioned, I have a busy schedule this week so I don't think I'll be able to get down to testing for a couple of days at least. My goal, however, is for a Q6600 G0 at 3.8-4.2ghz on water.

Total BS to the part about the plastic bag above BTW, I do it all the time.

Im still waiting on some peep actually trying to OC the FSB on these Mobos, the 2 reviews showed 584+FSB on Duals.

All I see in every forum is talk not actual results.

I got rid of the Striker II POS.

I would like to post more results with this board, but I seem to have a serious cold boot issue when I try to overclock my QX9650. I suppose I just posted my results, then...

Hey Shawn,

Can you post the settings in the cell section of your bios? Thanks :)

Sure. First number is what I am currently at, the second in () is what I tried.

DOT - Disabled
EIST - Disabled
System Clock Mode - Auto (Tried linked and manual)
CPU Ratio - 9 (9.5, 10, 10.5, 11)
PCI-E Freq - 100
Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Freq - Disable

CPU Volts - 0.025 (all the way to .1000)
Dram Volts - 1.95
NB Voltage - 1.275 (up to 1.35)

All the rest at auot for now. I messed with FSB Terminator, had it to 11.


Nothing I change with those settings make a difference in the ability to successfully cold-boot when the multiplier as set to anything but 9, or the FSB is set to anything but 1333.

I wonder if anyone else has this issue. It's a real conundrum. My last suggestion is to try 2.0 or 2.1v on the RAM and 1.4 or 1.45v on the north bridge. Then try raising the FSB. My guess though is that it's likely BIOS related, and despite what MSI support tells you (and I strongly believe they're wrong, and would make a strong case against them,) I would imagine that their developers are working on a BIOS fix.

I truly do believe that it is bios related. I tried upping the fsb just 10mhz, that's it, and bam, cold boot city. It's crazy.

That's unfortunate. Well hopefully you can return the board... the next question would be is whether or not this issues occurs on anyone else's with a 45nm quad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

That's unfortunate. Well hopefully you can return the board... the next question would be is whether or not this issues occurs on anyone else's with a 45nm quad.

---

You think it could be a famous nVidia FSB hole? Try skipping further ahead.

Also, go extreme underclock on the rest. Drop the RAM down to nice and easy 5-5-5-18 timings and 1:1 ratio to comepletely rule it out. Also might not hurt to take all but one stick out.

If you get it working at higher FSB at some point, then you can one-by-one start adding the RAM and settings back to see what's causing the issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r1ch

You think it could be a famous nVidia FSB hole? Try skipping further ahead.

Also, go extreme underclock on the rest. Drop the RAM down to nice and easy 5-5-5-18 timings and 1:1 ratio to comepletely rule it out. Also might not hurt to take all but one stick out.

If you get it working at higher FSB at some point, then you can one-by-one start adding the RAM and settings back to see what's causing the issue.

---

Good point. These steps are certainly worth trying.

I have actually tried it with one stick, each stick by itself and different ram slots. I have two motherboards arriving this afternoon, my EVGA 780i from rma and a new Gigabyte EX38 DS4 (as a back up). I will use them to figure this out.

I have a QX9650 and this board, the multi shows the right value in CPUZ. I just cant seem to run my Ram at 1066, what its rated at.

My setup doesn't seem to be very tolerant of big nb volt increases. By experimenting with the gtl voltages I have had modest success with fsb increases. I think msi is doing a decent job at trying to address specific user issues through beta bios releases, the most recent being A7510NMS.114 or .1B4 as it's otherwise identified, dated 3/2/08. I've only started to play with this but it is stable and seems to have the vdimm, at least, default to a higher voltage. I think this is either an attempt to fix coldboot or perhaps for those populating 4 slots.

Hello all,

I was wondering if somebody could tell me which driver (folder) on the CD for Vista are for the esata ports? I am working on a Vista SP1 disc with drivers slipstreamed and would like to include the drivers for the eSata ports. I understand they are part of the jmicron chipset, but the IDE\JMicron folder doesnt appear to include the eSata port drivers from the looks of it. Any help would be appreciated.

EDIT: Figured it out!

Hi all,

Thought I'd give a quick update on my progress. First, my apologies for the delay in updating this thread. My busy schedule from last week extended into the weekend, and as such I haven't been able to sit down with the rig until this evening.

My eventual end goal remains the same -- 3.8-4.2ghz with a Q6600 G0 (L737B277.) Currently, I'm trying for a stable 3.6ghz. I'm not stable yet, and it is proving to be a bit of a challenge, but I do remain optimistic. For now, the challenge is due to my own lack of experience with the board's voltage settings, which do work quite differently than the settings on the reference boards. As I moved up from 3.0 to 3.6ghz (9x400 FSB) I didnt't experience any FSB holes, nor did I ever have to clear the CMOS from a bad overclock. I've been able to successfully post from both warm and cold boots, and Windows loads to the desktop with as little as 1.325 vCore. The challenge right now is getting the rig Prime or OCCT stable at 3.6ghz.

Here is what I've found so far:

The board is completely stable at 3.0ghz (9 x 333mhz FSB) with RAM 1:1 at 667mhz. The only voltage set manually for this setup was RAM, which was bumped up to a factory-spec 2.0v. The chip is running on stock voltage (1.2375v) and all other voltage settings are on AUTO.

Right now, my 3.6ghz settings are 1.45v in the BIOS (which I expect may be more than eventually needed,) 1.4v for the NB (SPP,) 1.55v on the SB (MCP,) and 15&#37; on the FSB Terminator Voltage. RAM remains at 2.0v and is now running 1:1 with the FSB at 800mhz. Timings are at a JDEC default of 5-5-5-15. What I am finding is that while I can run Super PI, any of the Everest benchmarks, and 3D Mark 06, Prime95 will fail around the 10 minute mark. This remains true even if I up the vCore a step or two. What's interesting is that in all my testing tonight, Prime 95 and OCCP have not thrown one error themselves, nor has Windows thrown a blue-screen. Instead, with each attempt at 3.6ghz, the system will eventually completely freeze (with mouse cursor and all) or simply reboot. This leads me to believe that the issue lies with one of the many motherboard voltages, likely NB or SB, but perhaps with one of the many reference or terminator voltages. Lastly, throughout my testing, the motherboard temp hasn't exceeded 55c, and the temps of the CPU cores haven't exceeded 60c. After 10 minutes of prime w/ 1.378v (on load,) temps are in the mid to high 50s. Compared to my old G0 (an L734A,) this is a bit high. However, ambient is a bit warmer than usual due to the warm weather outside today, and the AS5 hasn't yet cured.

Seeing that there is a lack of information on OCing the P7N Diamond, there is not much else to do but to continue to test different combinations. However, I would appreciate any and all insight and/or suggestions as I continue. For those familiar with the voltage settings on this or a similar board, I do have a couple of questions:

1. It's clear that as far as vCore goes, an AUTO setting in the BIOS translates to stock vCore, regardless of clock speed. This is different from the behavior of any of the reference boards, which will guess an appropriate vCore based upon your overclock when vCore is set to AUTO. My question is whether or not this is also true for the other voltages, such that regardless of FSB overclock for example, FSB voltage will remain at stock when set to AUTO.

2. On the reference boards, FSB voltage is set directly like any other voltage (i.e. you set the amount you want to pump--1.3v, 1.4v, etc.) However, on this board, FSB Termination Voltage (which is the same thing,) is set by choosing an integer (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.) There is no indication in the BIOS as to what this integer setting refers to, although after reading some P6N threads on the MSI forum, I gather it means percentage. Does anyone know what a setting of 12 or 15 relates to in actual FSB termination voltage?

3. In fact, all voltages besides vCore, NB, SB, and DIMM are set using similar integers which bare no indication to what they mean or any relation to an actual voltage being pumped through the component. Does anyone know how to translate these voltage settings, and can anyone recommend proper gtl, reference, and/or termination settings for a 400-450mhz FSB?

Hopefully these are questions that I will be able to answer on my own as I strive to find a successful combination of voltages for a stable 3.6ghz and beyond. To others who have this board, please post your benchmarking results as you retrieve them. The more information we can gather about what it takes to get a stable high OC, the better off we all are, as are people considering this board as an alternative to the reference designs.

Many thanks!

EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add -- an unfortunate, if not unexpected, finding. My board is showing to have as much vDroop as a reference board w/o the pencil mod, yet there is no BIOS setting to disable it (like Loadline Calibration does in the ASUS boards.) Hopefully MSI adds it to a later BIOS, or that someone finds a similar pencil mod. Please share if you are experiencing similar vDroop. If not, it may be just an issue with my particular board.

Hey everyone,

I've been working on overclocking my newest build. Here are the specifics:

Project Mercury - CPU Q6600 (L742A473) @3.4 GHz
MSI P75 Diamond (780i)
2x1GB OCZ PC2-8500 Dual CH SLI-Ready EPP
2 MSI 8800GTX 768MB 610MHz
1 LiteOn 2x Blu-ray Disc Triple Writer
2 500GB Hitachi HDD
Silencer 750 Quad Power Supply
Thermaltake Armour LCS Case
D-Tek Fuzion CPU Waterblock
Windows XP

Like theZipster, I am trying to get a Q6600 up to 3.6GHz on the MSI P7N Diamond board. I started out at 3GHz (1333 FSB) which was easy to achieve at stock voltages and memory settings. I slowly worked my way up to 3.4GHz increasing the CPU, Memory, and Northbridge Voltages. The last Prime95 run made was stable for 19 hours and 9 minutes before I stopped the test. (eventually I'll do a full 24hours). I have attached images of my bios and Prime95 screens for your review.

Temperatures during the 19 hour run got to 61C on the CPU and 52C on the system sensor. No doubt driven by the increased voltage on the CPU and NB.

Additionally, I have made several attempts at 3.6GHz (1600MHz FSB x9) and all have failed. Typically the failure occurs within ten minutes with one of the Prime95 threads dying.

Please review my data and let me know what you think.

I'm thinking of getting one of these boards with an e8200 or an e8400 and run it on air. Anyone running any of these in the board, Also what would be the best air cooler that will fit with the northbridge cooling?? This will be going fo max air overclock. Thanks :welcome:

I am running this board with the E8400. So far, I have not been able to achieve anything past 3.3Ghz regardless of voltages. It will boot at 1545FSB but is not stable. It will not boot at 1550FSB. I have my 1066 ram at 2.1v, vcore at 1.35v, NB at 1.5v. I have tried increasing/decreasing voltage values across the board without success. I will wait for an official BIOS update in all hopes, but right now I kinda wish I went with an Intel board. :o. I bought the E8400 specifically to reach 4.0Ghz as I have read so many guides online on how easy it is to get there.

x-built-stan, why is your FSB Terminator setting so high? From what I've read at least for the P6N, a setting between 12-15 was usually needed for higher ocs.

theYipster,

I started out at 10 with my terminator voltage at 3.2GHz. As I ran my prime95 tests for longer and longer periods one of the threads would die. I started upping the terminator voltage which made the system more stable (longer successful test run). By the time I got to 3.4GHz, I was pushing 60 on the terminator with succesful test runs of more than 10 hours. My last run, as noted previously was 19 hours and 9 minutes before I stopped it. Eventually I would like to get the terminator voltage down if possible.

I also have a MSI 6PN Platinum with an X6800 in it. I have never had to run the terminator voltage up as high on that board.

Still working and tuning. I should have more results later in the week. I'll add a picture of the rig later. Any insights that you have would be welcome.

The fact that you're getting Prime to error out and not system reboots suggests that the processor isn't being fed enough voltage, but that your motherboard is capable, hopefully, of supporting high Quad core OCs.

What is your processor's VID? This number alone can be a very good predictor of how much voltage your processor needs to be stable at high speeds. You can read VID from CoreTemp, and if you're using Vista x64, simply search google for a script to get it working w/o having to disable driver signing.

Also keep in mind that processors may need a bit more voltage on nForce boards than on Intel boards to reach the same speed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

I am running this board with the E8400. So far, I have not been able to achieve anything past 3.3Ghz regardless of voltages. It will boot at 1545FSB but is not stable. It will not boot at 1550FSB. I have my 1066 ram at 2.1v, vcore at 1.35v, NB at 1.5v. I have tried increasing/decreasing voltage values across the board without success. I will wait for an official BIOS update in all hopes, but right now I kinda wish I went with an Intel board. :o. I bought the E8400 specifically to reach 4.0Ghz as I have read so many guides online on how easy it is to get there.

---

Damn are you serious?? 3.3Ghz?? damn this boad should be able to push it a lot higher than that...Maybe I'll change my mind about the board...anyone else with an e8400 e8200 or e8500 on this board get to 4Ghz??:shrug:

The VID is about 1.42v (CPU voltage increase 0.175 in the bios). I agree about VID and if I was running a dual core instead of a quad I would focus on that aspect. However, I understand that the the quads use the FSB to "communicate" between the two dual cores. That is why I have been focusing on the FSB terminator voltage. I'll try upping the CPU voltage a little and see if I can drop the terminator voltage some.

That's most likely not your VID. On a retail G0 Q6600, VID ranges from about 1.2 to 1.325 when EIST (speedstep) is disabled. I've never seen a G0 Q6600 with a VID lower than 1.2 or higher than 1.325, although according to Intel's spec they could exist.

VID is the default voltage supplied to your chip when running at stock speed, assuming you leave your chip's vCore BIOS setting on auto. The VID is imprinted on your processor, and is unique to each chip. Basically, it tells your motherboard what the processor needs for voltage at stock operation. On the MSI P7N Diamond, notice that vCore is set by increments to VID, where as on other boards you simply set a straight voltage (as done with the NB and SB on the P7N.) Therefore it's even more important to know what your chip's VID is on the P7N. Otherwise you don't know how much additional voltage your supplying your chip to reach a given OC.

Knowing VID on a quad core is just as important in gauging what voltage you'll need for a given OC as on a dual core. FSB Termination Voltage is not nearly as important as vCore on a Core 2 chip.

If you don't have Core Temp, download it, open it up, and read the number next to VID. Paste that here, and we'll have a good idea as to whether or not you should be tooling with vCore instead of FSB Termination Voltage.

I have it. But I'm at work right now. I'll post it later tonight.

Sounds good. If you know that your BIOS is feeding 1.42v to your chip, and that you've selected .175 increase for vCore in the BIOS, then you can reason that VID is or should be around 1.245. This isn't bad, but as far as 3.6ghz on an nForce goes, you'll likely need more than 1.42v set in the BIOS.

The issue is one of vOffset and vDroop. On many motherboards, the voltage supplied to your chip at idle is less than what you've set it to in the BIOS. This difference is vOffset or vDrop. When you run Prime 95, you will likely notice that the voltage supplied to your chip drops further. This is vDroop. You can monitor vOffset and vDrop using CPU-Z. See what the voltage is after your Windows desktop loads, and note the difference between that and what you've set in the BIOS. Then, with CPU-Z open, start Prime95 and watch the voltage dip more. The trick is to supply enough voltage in the BIOS so that voltage doesn't drop below what is required for stability at load. As you increase vCore in the BIOS, you can expect the vDroop and vOffset deltas to increase slightly.

One thing I discovered about this board is that vOffset and vDroop are about as noticeable as they are on the reference 680i/780i boards, which is to say that they're quite noticeable. Unfortunately, I don't know of a way to reduce vDroop on this board. ASUS provides a BIOS setting called Load Line Calibration that reduces vDroop on their boards. On the reference boards, shading a particular resistor with a #2 lead pencil eliminates vDroop and vOffset almost completely.

I've spent another couple hours trying to reach a stable OC, so far w/o any luck. The highest I have been able to OC this E8400 stable is 3.21Ghz. I'm really stumped, and I don't think its a voltage problem. I have tried bringing to voltages up to 1.45 on the core and maxed out the NB. SB increases so far have no effect. RAM is OC series rated at 1066. I've seen the E8400 go to 3.6Ghz with no voltage increases and stock heatsink on Intel boards. 4.0+ was easily acheived with minor core increases only.

For the sake of trying, I tried the D.O.T. feature and set to 10&#37;. I put the CPU under heavy load and monitored CPU-Z. At no point did the core increase past 3.0 and then all of a sudden complete crash. This was supposed to be MSI's new flagship. Shrug.

sorry i am getting to this so late but i am here now, try and disable the speed step in youre cell menu, i am surprised you got it this high with it sill enabled,and for all,,,like me 9650 users MSI WILL BE POSTING A BIOS FOR OUR BIG FAST CPU,,,,IN ABOUT A WEEK SO JUST BE A LITTLE PATIENT OK GUYS,,,I GO BACK A LONG WAY WITH THE HIGH END MSI BOARDS AND WE WILL BE HAPPY WHEN THEY GET THE NEW BIOS OUT,RIGHT NOW I AM UP TO 3.7 GHZ,,, 9650 X 11 3770 FSB NB 1.40 V CORE 1.304 FSB TERM 4 AND MY CORSAIR 1066 SET TO MANUAL 2.1 VOLTS,WITH 2 FOXCONN 8800GTS 640,S I AM GETTIN 1900 AND SOME CHANGE, 3D MARL 06 1280 RES NOTE ALSO UP YOU PCI FREQ TO 107 THIS I LEARNED WITH MY K8N DIAMOND PLUS WITH FX-60 IT WILL LET YOU OVERCLOCK MORE,,I WILL TRY TO HELP ALL AND I AM SURE I WILL NEED SOME HELP, THIS IS MY FIRST INTEL BUILD,,, GOOD LUCK OK,,AND BY FAR THIS IS THE BEST 780I BOARD!!! LETS GIVE IT SOME TIME OK GUYS,,,,,WOLF

Overspeed, try setting FSB Terminator voltage to 15 and see if that improves any. Also, please share how you are running your RAM timings and speed. When OCing, you should run your RAM at a 1:1 ratio with your FSB, thus eliminating RAM OC issues in your attempt to OC your proc. On the MSI P7N, you must do some manual math to find which RAM speed will get you a 1:1 ratio.

First set RAM speed to manual. Then, whatever you set your FSB to in the BIOS, divide that number (the quad pumped number set in the BIOS) by 2. Hence, a 3.6ghz E8400 should run with an FSB set to 1600mhz in the BIOS and RAM set to 800mhz. A 4.05ghz E8400 should run with an FSB set to 1800mhz in the BIOS and RAM set to 900mhz.

Also, be sure to loosen your timings to 5-5-5-15. Once you've found a proc OC you are happy with, then go back and work on your RAM timings. If you're confident it's not voltages, then perhaps its your RAM.

Also, maxing out your NB may just cause it to overheat. You're NB will definitely need a boost however to run a 4ghz proc. Expect 1.4+-. Maxing out will just cause other issues, especially if you are running it on the stock passive cooling.

Wolf.. Thanks for sharing the result. Are you prime or OCCT stable with those settings?

Thanx for the reply yipster. Here are some details as per your post. First my system: P7N, E8400, 4x1GB PC2-8500 rated at 5-5-5-15, Termaltake Big Typhoon. So I have great cooling on the CPU. In the BIOS, I have not changed in any way the ram timings. Currently set to SPD. I have been doing as your suggested with the ram divider, I always make sure i'm set to manual and the ram frequency is set to half of FSB ... ie ... 1600/800. My ram manual says recommended voltage of 2.1 so I have manually set this. Other points to note:

BIOS says core votage at 1.2 - CPU-Z says 1.1 and I gather this is normal.
For now I don't intend on OC the RAM in anyway, just CPU

This next point i'm no expert so bear with me. After recovering from the failed OC I set everything back to auto and PC runs fine. When I go into CPU-Z, then under SPD tab, it shows as PC2-6400 (400). I know im in dual channel so really the 400 is 800. So the mobo is setting ram to 800 when set to auto even though it only needs 666Mhz to run CPU at 1333 the default. Here's what puzzles me. In the CPU-Z SPD tab, there is a chart below called Timings Table. JEDEC #3 lists frequency as 400Mhz with the followng timings: 5-5-5-18 at 1.8v. ??? According to my ram manual, its rated at 5-5-5-15. There is another table called EPP #1 with the following timings: 5-6-6-15 2T @ 2.1v. Is my ram manual or is CPU-Z wrong? Or do I interprate this all wrong?

An update from my last post in regards to D.O.T. This time I used the MSI windows application. I was able to acheive the 3&#37; gain OC stable. 5% and higher caused system to freeze. Suffice to say i'm concerned that 1 or more of my hardware may be faulty.

I'm not sure if this is worth noting but the MSI windows application also has a feature to monitor power levels and efficiency. My rig is constantly flucuating between 20-80% efficiency. This flucuation is not present when looking in BIOS HW-Monitor. I would think that if this is bad, and that my PSU is faulty, I would be experiencing issues even in no OC setups.

Anyways I will try your FSB Terminiation suggestion and let you know how it goes. Thanx again.

Yipster, I tried adjusting FSB Termination. No go. Here are the settings I used:

1600 FSB
800 on RAM (timings controlled by SPD)
RAM at 2.1v
CPU core at +0.15v
NB at 1.3v
FSB Term at 15

No post after 3 retries. I also tried twice at CPU voltage at +0.2v with the same other settings. No go. Over all, to date I have been able to achieve a 7&#37; OC using BIOS and only 3% using MSI application.

I have one question to P7N owners that is not OC'ing related. When you first power on your rig does your mobo beep? Mine make one long loud beep followed by 2-3 shorter beeps. I know that MSI mobos always make at least 1 beep during post, but I don't seem to remember hearing the other beeps when I first got this. Curious if this is normal.

Overspeed,

Remember that for two DIMMS to run in dual channel mode, they need to spaced a part by one empty DIMM, such that if bank 1 is the rightmost DIMM slot furthest from the processor, one stick is in bank 1 and the other is in bank 3, or that one stick is in bank 2 and the other is in bank 4. MSI colors their RAM slots differently than other manufacturers, which can be confusing. Make sure that one DIMM is in an orange slot and the other in the associative green slot.

As for default timings, this is normal. The motherboard will not automatically default to a 1:1 setting. Instead, it will default to the highest standard JDEC setting specified for your RAM. Now you have 1066mhz RAM, but the highest setting specified by JDEC for DDR-2 RAM is PC-6400 / 800mhz, which is why you see your RAM running at 800mhz at stock, and not 1066mhz. If you had 667mhz RAM, then you would see it run at 667mhz at stock. Secondly, the default timings for a given speed are stored in your RAM's SPD chip. This chip stores timing information for various RAM speeds at various FSB straps. 5-6-6-15-2T just happens to be the timings stored with the JDEC 800mhz speed. Now EPP, or SLI Ready memory, will store extra settings in that SPD chip, which can be activated by going into your BIOS and enabling SLI Memory. Set the SLI Memory option to 0% OC or Expert to automatically enable better timings for your given RAM speed.

As for the OC attemps, I'm sorry you're having trouble. Right now it does seem that the board works better with Conroe and Kentsfield chips. I would not recommend you OC through the Windows utility -- they tend not to work well. As for OCing through the BIOS, are you sure you have all the necessary settings disabled? Make sure that EIST and Speed Spectrums are disabled in the Cell Menu. Then go into the chip features menu where the Execute Disable Bit feature resides, press F4, and make sure that C1E is disabled and that Thermal Management is disabled. Lastly, have you tried any of the beta bioses from http://forum.msi.com.tw? The latest, 1.1B4, was released two days ago and people are finding some early success with it regarding the 45-nm chips. Before giving up, flashing to a newer BIOS is absolutely worth a try.

Good luck. Lastly, what's your PSU?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

Overspeed,

Remember that for two DIMMS to run in dual channel mode, they need to spaced a part by one empty DIMM, such that if bank 1 is the rightmost DIMM slot furthest from the processor, one stick is in bank 1 and the other is in bank 3, or that one stick is in bank 2 and the other is in bank 4. MSI colors their RAM slots differently than other manufacturers, which can be confusing. Make sure that one DIMM is in an orange slot and the other in the associative green slot.

---

I am running 4x1GB DIMMS so all slots are full.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theYipster

As for default timings, this is normal. The motherboard will not automatically default to a 1:1 setting. Instead, it will default to the highest standard JDEC setting specified for your RAM. Now you have 1066mhz RAM, but the highest setting specified by JDEC for DDR-2 RAM is PC-6400 / 800mhz, which is why you see your RAM running at 800mhz at stock, and not 1066mhz. If you had 667mhz RAM, then you would see it run at 667mhz at stock. Secondly, the default timings for a given speed are stored in your RAM's SPD chip. This chip stores timing information for various RAM speeds at various FSB straps. 5-6-6-15-2T just happens to be the timings stored with the JDEC 800mhz speed. Now EPP, or SLI Ready memory, will store extra settings in that SPD chip, which can be activated by going into your BIOS and enabling SLI Memory. Set the SLI Memory option to 0&#37; OC or Expert to automatically enable better timings for your given RAM speed.

---

I'll give that a try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theYipster

As for the OC attemps, I'm sorry you're having trouble. Right now it does seem that the board works better with Conroe and Kentsfield chips. I would not recommend you OC through the Windows utility -- they tend not to work well. As for OCing through the BIOS, are you sure you have all the necessary settings disabled? Make sure that EIST and Speed Spectrums are disabled in the Cell Menu. Then go into the chip features menu where the Execute Disable Bit feature resides, press F4, and make sure that C1E is disabled and that Thermal Management is disabled. Lastly, have you tried any of the beta bioses from http://forum.msi.com.tw? The latest, 1.1B4, was released two days ago and people are finding some early success with it regarding the 45-nm chips. Before giving up, flashing to a newer BIOS is absolutely worth a try.

Good luck. Lastly, what's your PSU?

---

As of reading your reply I am 99% certain I have the necessary options disabled but i will go and verify. EDIT: I have verified that my settings match that you specified, all disabled. I have not been able to find any download locations for the beta BIOS yet. As for my PSU, I am running a Thermaltake Toughtpower 700W. Does your mobo beep like mine from cold boot?

I'm curious as to how these guys made it all work:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=1886633

If longsiew is to be beleived, he got the E8400 to 4.6Ghz on this board ... only difference that I can see was the ram used.

There is a subforum in the Overclocks forum for beta bioses. Note that you may need to register to access that forum. If so, registration is well worth it. I believe the E8400 user in the Singapore forum used a beta bios. I'd say that's your best bet.

theYipster,

I checked my voltage and here are the results.
VID: 1.256v - Read from BIOS, EIST disabled Q6600@2.4GHz stock
Vcore(no load): 1.432v - Read from CPU-Z, EIST disabled Q6600@3.4GHz
Vcore(load): 1.376v - Read from CPU-Z, EIST disabled, Q6600@3.4GHz

Load was Prime95 v25.5, 4 threads, small FFT.

You can see that my voltage drop under load is 0.056v or 3.9%. Is that inline with your observations?

I'm going to push the Vcore up and see if I can drop back the terminator voltage. I'll keep the FSB at 1512Mz for now.

I'l chime in with some overclocking results of my own with my e8400 on this board. I started off going with 1600(400x9)(3.6) FSB and memory at 800 linked. Tried uping the cpu voltage all the way up to +.18750(1.200-1.208 in BIOS) (1.21-1.22 in CPUID) (1.208-1.216 in CPUZ). NB up to 1.4, memory at default of 2.2v. All other voltages on auto. I can boot into Vista but 3DMARK06 would lock up during the test at different test, requiring a hard reset.

Dropped FSB down to 1520(380x9)(3.4) and memory still linked, NB down to 1.35 and left the CPU voltage at +.18750. Got through a full 3Dmark06 test and and now running prime95 for about 2 hours with no errors.

I'm coming from an ASUS P5N-T deluxe which did 3.6 but required a very high CPU voltage. Not sure what I should try next to get stable at 400x9 but I will follow this thread and post when I can. I do know one thing though, it's much snappier than than the ASUS board and installed Windows a heck of a lot quicker.

I'm editing this post to clarify the beep codes. When you boot there are two series of beep codes with a slight delay between them. The first is the boot beep code - see table below. The second is the number of USB devices plugged into teh motherboard directly. So if you get 1 long <pause> 2 short you have an OK POST with 2 USB devices plugged into the motherboard. Note that plugging multiple devices into a monitor or USB hub and them plugging the monitor or hub into the motherboard only counts a sone device - 1 short beep. If you are concerned or confused, unplug all USB devices and boot to get the 'true' sequence.

Overspeed,

Here are thge AMI beep codes. Note that the 1 long is a good POST.

AMI BIOS Beep Codes:

1 short DRAM refresh failure The programmable interrupt timer or programmable interrupt controller has probably failed
2 short Memory parity error A memory parity error has occurred in the first 64K of RAM. The RAM IC is probably bad
3 short Base 64K memory failure A memory failure has occurred in the first 64K of RAM. The RAM IC is probably bad
4 short System timer failure The system clock/timer IC has failed or there is a memory error in the first bank of memory
5 short Processor error The system CPU has failed
6 short Gate A20 failure The keyboard controller IC has failed, which is not allowing Gate A20 to switch the processor to protected mode. Replace the keyboard controller
7 short Virtual mode processor exception error The CPU has generated an exception error because of a fault in the CPU or motherboard circuitry
8 short Display memory read/write error The system video adapter is missing or defective
9 short ROM checksum error The contents of the system BIOS ROM does not match the expected checksum value. The BIOS ROM is probably defective and should be replaced
10 short CMOS shutdown register read/write error The shutdown for the CMOS has failed
11 short Cache error The L2 cache is faulty
1 long, 2 short Failure in video system An error was encountered in the video BIOS ROM, or a horizontal retrace failure has been encountered
1 long, 3 short Memory test failure A fault has been detected in memory above 64KB
1 long, 8 short Display test failure The video adapter is either missing or defective
2 short POST Failure One of the hardware testa have failed
1 long POST has passed all tests

Hmm... X-built-Stan, my guess is that you need more voltage through that processor. A G0 VID of 1.256 isn't bad by any means, but paired with an nForce board, I'm not sure you'll get it stable under 1.4v at load. Try upping the vCore in the BIOS until you the board is pumping 1.4v at load. Note that this may require setting up to 1.45-1.48 in the BIOS.

Your vDroop looks to be in line with what I've experienced.

As for myself, I don't think I'll be getting around to testing tonight. Hopefully tomorrow I can continue my quest to 3.6ghz.

does the thermalright ultra extreme fit on this board?

I believe it does if you rotate it 90 degrees, but I am not certain. You may want to double check elsewhere.

theYipster,

I upped the Vcore delta in the bios to 0.2000 for a load core of 1.41v and dropped the FSB terminator voltage to 30 from 63. I've got Prime95 running now for 1.5 hour. Core temp is 60C and NB is 60C. We'll see how long that runs.

Sounds good! You should be in the home stretch now. If Prime fails before you're ready to call it stable, just up the vCore one notch until it becomes stable. If it fails between 2-8 hours, usually one or two notches of vCore will take care of it and you'll be stable.

60C is within tolerable limits of the 780i nb, but keep an eye on the temp. If it hits or passes 70C, you'll want to investigate in an active cooling method. I just purchased an Antec Spot Cool fan for mine -- should be here by Friday. It's supposed to do wonders for the NB temp on this board, which at least on mine is not unreasonable, but could use the extra cooling as I pump up voltage past 1.4v.

A 780i NB running between 40-50c, in my opinion, is a happy 780i NB. Note that on the 680/780 reference boards, NB temps in excess of 70C were usually a good indication that a NB burnout / failure (represented by everyone's favorite C1 error) was not far away. I do not expect the P7N to suffer from these burnouts, thanks to the better capacitors and PWM system used. Still, it's best to keep temps under control when possibler.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

I believe it does if you rotate it 90 degrees, but I am not certain. You may want to double check elsewhere.

---

Is there any cons to installing it that way? and does it have alot of vdroop with quads?

Just posting new results on the E8400. I was able to achieve 3.4Ghz and I think it was stable. It survived 2 3DMark runs, and using Handbrake was able to encode Simpsons Movie to H.264 in 19 minutes. Total stressing lasted about 32 mins. Here are the settings used:

1510 FSB (377x9 = 3.4Ghz)
Ram at 755Mhz
Vcore at +0.25 (15 jumps) CPU-Z reported 1.38v
Ram at 2.10v
NB at 1.4

Anything but these setting resulted in no post. Did not have to modify the FSB Termination. During stress, CPU temp reached 33C, and idles at 26C. Case temp was 45-52C. Vid card idles at 60C (8800GTS 512). I have no way of reading the NB or SB temps but when I touched the rollercoaster fins I had to pull away within 3 seconds of being burned, SB I touch for 8 seconds before got too hot. During non OC state I can touch the SB indefinately and the NB for a good 20-30 seconds.

I was not able under any conditions to reach 3.6Ghz.

I am concerned about the beeps my mobo gives off during post. According to X-built`s research on this I am suffering from the following: 1 long, 2 short Failure in video system An error was encountered in the video BIOS ROM, or a horizontal retrace failure has been encountered. I don`t know what this means. I just got this rig less than a week ago, should I be calling the store that built it for warranty support? I would be greatful if someone could explain what this error code actually means.

Yipster, I created an MSI forum account as you suggested and got all 3 beta BIOS's. The mods there were very fast in helping me with the mobo beeping problem as well. Turns out this mobo will beep once for every USB device it detects during post.

I have not tried the beta BIOS's yet. MSI also provides a utility that allows for a BIOS flash from a USB key. So the question is, which BIOS should I install? My options are 1.1, P05 or the 114. I think I can rule out the 1.1 as the MSI forum mods confirmed it was a junk release.

Hey Overspeed, did you see my overclocking results for my e8400. I am only able to get stable at 3.4 also although FSB is at 380 so far.

1520 FSB (380x9 = 3.4Ghz)
Ram at 760Mhz
Vcore at +.18750 CPU-Z reported 1.21v
Ram at 2.20v(default)
NB at 1.35

I can get Windows to boot at 3.6 (400x9) by just bumping the nb to 1.4 but 3DMark06 would lock up. I will try to get some more testing done today considering we got a snow storm and my place of work is closed. :)

My temps weren't nearly as cool as your though. What are you using to monitor. CPUID HW reports on prime 95 load, CPU up tp 60C and MB up to 55C.

Overspeed, 1.1 is indeed a junk release. For the Wolfdales and Yorkfields, I believe people are having the best success with 11B4. Let me know what you find.

Interestingly enough, my NB doesn't seem to run as hot as others. I keep tabs on the motherboard temp sensor and from time to time I'll place my finger on the roller coaster fins and on the bottom heat pipe. At no time did I feel like I was going to get burned by the roller coaster fins, although when above 1.4v it did feel very hot to the touch. The bottom running heat pipe at 1.4v was thoroughly hot however. At stock, the coaster fins and heap pipe run cooler than the bottom of my Macbook Pro. I wonder if I just have a cooler running NB or if there's a problem with the mount -- although there certainly doesn't seem to be one from what I can detect.

EDIT: I also don't get any more than the standard one "Post OK" beep, and I have two USB external hard drives as well as a USB keyboard and mouse attached the computer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

Wolf.. Thanks for sharing the result. Are you prime or OCCT stable with those settings?

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i am prime stable for 4 hours then i stopped it, and i am waiting for a good 45nm bios before i try and push further but i do believe 4 to 4.5 on air will be no problem. hey any one got a good temp monitor for nb,,cpu so on windows based??? i used to use ntune for this but i can only read the video cards with the ntune msi sent on the drivers disk,,, thanks wolf

Hi guys!
Interesting thread, gonna participate since I running the same board and we need a good know-how thread. :)

I got these goodies in my case:
Q6600 G0 cooled by Noctua-12, 2Gb GeiL Ultra 667MHz 3-4-4-8, 2x MSI 7900GTO and of course the P7N Diamond

I used OCCT to determine that system stability since OCCT seems to torture system even more, but it DOES NOT push the temps high. Hardware even makes a strange I-am-really-struggling-here-sound when it is running. Ran Prime95 for 10 hours with no errors (BLEND mode), but after 6 minutes of OCCT the thing crash.

Yes, and i'm experiencing a giant FSB-hole, actually from 1370 to 1505, but for all I know it might be my Q6600. Tried to change RAM speed from lowest the board can run to max oc the RAM can run.
When i select 8x multi, it will usually boot with 9x.
Tried @ 3.6ghz, but could get it nowhere close to stable.

Currently i'm running with these settings stable:
FSB Clock (MHz) : 1511
Memory Clock (MHz) : 814 (4-4-4-12 T2)
-------------------------------------------
Adjust PCI-E Frequency : 100
Auto Disabled DRAM/PCI Frequency: Enabled
-------------------------------------------
CPU Voltage (V) : 0.1500
DRAM Voltage (V) : 2.10
NB Voltage (V) : 1.325
SB Voltage (V) : 1.525
NB Memory Reference Voltage : Auto
Memory Reference Voltage : Auto
Memory Terminator Voltage : Auto
CPU GTL Reference Voltage : 25
NB GTL Reference Voltage : Auto
FSB Terminator Voltage : Auto
NB Memory Reference Voltage : Auto
SB Sleep Mode Voltage : Auto
PCIe Expander PLL Voltage : Auto
-------------------------------------------
Spread Spectrum : Disabled

Best regards, The Goldfish

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BKA

Hey Overspeed, did you see my overclocking results for my e8400. I am only able to get stable at 3.4 also although FSB is at 380 so far.

My temps weren't nearly as cool as your though. What are you using to monitor. CPUID HW reports on prime 95 load, CPU up tp 60C and MB up to 55C.

---

Yes I did review your results, I think using shipping BIOSs we have both hit the same wall. I was using the MSI app to monitor my temps. I will try your HW monitor and see if it's different. That said, someone once told me that the E8400's were produced with a sometimes faulty temperature monitoring diode.

Edit: Ok I have CPUID HW running. I also set my bios to your exact settings. Here is what it reads:

vcore: 1.29v
tmpin0: 23C
tmpin1: 47C
core 0: 35C
core 1: 36C
gpu: 56C

What are the tmpin temps, I think 1 may be the mobo temp. I will now put under stress and see where the temps go...... ..... ..... .....
Ok according to CPUID HW monitor my temps hit 42C max after a 15 min prime95 run. The cores cooled back to the low 30`s within a minute. One thing I do notice about your settings is my NB did not get nearly as hot and still seems stable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

I also don't get any more than the standard one "Post OK" beep, and I have two USB external hard drives as well as a USB keyboard and mouse attached the computer.

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Interesting. To test further, I added an external drive, a USB key and a printer along side my USB mouse and keyboard ... total of 5 USB devices. Rebooted and got 1 long, 5 short. I wonder why I hear the additional beeps and you don't?

Welcome to the thread Goldfish.

On other boards, a GTL Ref of 65-67 is generally recommended for Q6600 overclocking. Note that I haven't yet played with GTL Ref on this board yet, so I can offer no direct experience. I would recommend however that you up the GTL Ref and see what results you have.

Also, you may find better results with higher FSBs if you set the FSB Termiantion Voltage between 12-15. Note that on the shipping BIOS, I experienced no FSB holes between 1333 and 1600, but I haven't yet done further tests to try and stabilize at 1600 / 3.6ghz.

Also, which BIOS version are you using? People are beginning to see better results with 1.1B4.

EDIT: Lastly, what is your Q6600's VID and batch number?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

Welcome to the thread Goldfish.

On other boards, a GTL Ref of 65-67 is generally recommended for Q6600 overclocking. Note that I haven't yet played with GTL Ref on this board yet, so I can offer no direct experience. I would recommend however that you up the GTL Ref and see what results you have.

Also, you may find better results with higher FSBs if you set the FSB Termiantion Voltage between 12-15. Note that on the shipping BIOS, I experienced no FSB holes between 1333 and 1600, but I haven't yet done further tests to try and stabilize at 1600 / 3.6ghz.

Also, which BIOS version are you using? People are beginning to see better results with 1.1B4.

EDIT: Lastly, what is your Q6600's VID and batch number?

---

hey does anyone know if the 1.1b4 fix's the 45nm multi problem??

I've heard they fix cold boot issues -- which may be the same thing. I don't have a 45nm chip so I can't confirm.

i will get msi to send the bios and i will try it out,, this is my rig,,,coolermaster 830 stacker,p7n, qx9650 4 gigs corsair 1066, a pair of foxconn 8800gts'640mb clocked to 656/1220,xi-fi card 1000w real power pro and raptor's in raid-0-,,,running 3.8ghz stable for about 1 week now, fsb term is at 8 cpu volt up 3 ,,,nb 1.4 sb 1.55 ram at manual 5-5-5-15 1t and pci freq to 107 i am pretty happy so far but i know it is capible of more

Hello all,

Last week a got this board, because I was having memory issues with an Asus P5E. The good news is that it will run the 2x2GB modules that had previously gone bad in the P5E. But the bad news is that NewEgg sent me the same modules back that I RMA'd. So those modules return errors under MemTest86. Also the 4 Corsair 1GB modules that I wanted to run won't seem to run on this board either. I suspect that those Corsair modules have something programmed on the SPD that prevents them being used together. Though they are exactly the same model.

In other respects I like some things about the M7N Diamond, and don't care for some other "features". Things I do like include; eSATA, though I had to jump through some hoops to get it working, that bundled X-Fi card is nice, though it doesn't work with the front ports on my case, and my Video card is boosted a bit, since it's also an Nvidia chip. It's also a comfort to me that what memory I am running is being used at it's proper speed and timings.

I did have some installation issues with XP. At first I didn't take the time to wipe the drive I was installing to, and I didn't have XP do a full format on that drive. This led to strange issues with phantom devices taking up many of the addresses for hardware. Which in turn prevented XP from properly initializing the JMicron SATA ports. That was corrected by wiping the HDD and reinstalling.

Now the only outstanding issue I'm having is the occasional BSoD, when I use my ROM drives. See the Nvidia SATA Performance Drivers don't play well with SATA ROM drives. So occasionally when I try to use a ROM drive (I have 2 SATA DVD ROM drives, one is read only and the other is a DVD/RW) I get a BSoD for "Driver_IRQ_Not_Less_Or_Equal..." and it flags the "nvgts.sys" file as the culprit. (That "nvgts.sys" is the Nvidia SATA Performance driver.) It seems to happen more when the computer has tried to enter sleep mode. The only consolation is that those Nvidia drivers do allow me to use NCQ on my hard drives, and the BSoDs are infrequent.

The nvgts.sys is a known issue across all nForce boards -- reference and otherwise. I never experienced it on any of my boards until I plugged-in a SATA optical blu-ray drive. Apparently it can be buggy with SATA optical drives.

If you don't want to uninstall the drivers and just use the generic ones provided by Windows (a common solution to this issue,) try relocating the SATA cable to a new port in your motherboard instead. This eliminated the issue on my rig with the blu-ray drive.

So I had a chance to test out the 1B4 Beta BIOS this afternoon. Unfortunately it did not allow me to break the 3.42Ghz barrier on my E8400. I did some pretty intensive voltage experiments w/o success. I have not tried the P05 yet.

New high hit on the E8400. 3.51Ghz using these values:

BIOS: 1B4
FSB: 1560
RAM: 780
VCORE: +0.2v
DIMM: 2.1v
NB: 1.35v
SB: 1.6v
FSBT: 60

Stability unverified, but so far so good.

Edit: Above values refined after experimenting, still able to achieve 3.51Ghz:

BIOS: 1B4
FSB: 1560
RAM: 780
VCORE: +0.15v
DIMM: 2.1v
NB: 1.35v
SB: auto
FSBT: auto

I'm not sure what role the FSBT plays but I was able to get here with it left on auto. SB modification also seemed to be redundant. System would only become stable when NB voltage bumped up. 1.2v = fail 1.25v = fail 1.3v = OS load but not stable 1.35v = stable sweet spot. I'm also noticing that the vcore can remain relatively low ... at least at my current best of 3.51Ghz. More to follow.

Overspeed,

I've asked MSI for a detailed explanation of all BIOS voltage settings. With this information we can shed a bit more light on the OC possibilities of this board.

However, it looks like the new BIOS is doing the trick for you. Two things to keep in mind:

On the reference 780i boards, 1.4v is often needed on the NB to achieve stability between 3.6-4.0ghz. Furthermore, I believe the reference boards default NB voltage to a higher value -- 1.3 or 1.35. Considering that the P7N uses the same NB, I would expect similar voltages are necessary to achieve stability. Try a NB in the range of 1.4-1.45 and see if that can't get you stable at 3.6ghz, let alone 4.0v.

As for your vCore, the consensus on a maximum voltage limit for OC'd 8400s is 1.45v. Unfortunately, thanks to the P7N's unique way of setting vCore, it's not necessarily easy to tell when you've set 1.45v in the BIOS. To do this, you need to know your chips VID. With Speedstep disabled, open (or first download if need be) Core Temp in Windows and read the number for VID. To get the actual voltage set via vCore in the BIOS, simply add the BIOS vCore to your VID. Note that the voltage you set in the BIOS will be higher than the voltage supplied to your chip while idling in Windows, thanks to vOffset, and that the voltage will further drop under load, thanks to vDroop. Your chip, however, should reach 4.0ghz on less than 1.45v, provided it's not a dud.

Also, what is the batch of your E8400? Many can do 4.0ghz on air as easily as a Q6600 G0 can do 3.6ghz. I had one (a Q746A) I sold which apparently can bench 4.5ghz on air on an evga 680i, but it does need a bit of voltage to get there.

theYipster, I have been following your posts on the MSI forums, hopefully Aaron can get us the voltage info. I'm not sure how to get my VID value. Hang on while I Google this... ok I have installed CT 0.96.1. My VID is 1.0375v. I don't think I will be able to find out my batch for the CPU. This PC was assembled for me and I don't have the original retail box or access to the CPU as I have a large aftermarket heatsink on it. I'd rather not remove the heatsink and ruin my thermal compound. Is there any other way to locate the batch via an application?

So it would seem the bottleneck for this CPU is the motherboard. My research shows that the E8400 is capable of easily achieving 4+Ghz with a reasonable heatsink on intel chipsets. Judging by my successes/failures so far, even if a new BIOS helps to get at 3.6Ghz, it seems unlikely that it will ever do 4.0Ghz, my original goal. A shame because when I ordered this PC I was clear that I wanted a good OC board for the E8400 and the P7N is what I was given. Who knows, maybe in time, and with a better undersdtanding of the voltage settings, 4.0 might be within grasp along side refined BIOS's.

I am concerned about putting the NB at 1.4v - 1.5v at it seems to get too hot at those settings. I'm unsure of the cooling potential of the rollercoaster and circupipe, but to touch them at default clocks, they seem hot already. Then again, my finger is not the best for judging temps lol. What feels hot to me might very well be cool for the NB. I have no way of measuring.

Overspeed,

People are indeed having success getting their E8400's to 4.0ghz on 780i-based motherboards, and I am quite confident that it can be done here too -- if not with the latest BIOS, than likely with a future one. Take a look at the 780i and overclocking forums over at evga.com. Right now the evga 780i A1 is the most popular 780i board on the market, and as such has the most OC information available (as well as the biggest community to help people achieve their overclocking goals.)

Now many of the settings for the evga board don't apply to the P7N, due to the different BIOS used. However, you will no doubt see people putting more volts through the NB in order to achieve their goals. I am confident that you will need to do the same. At 1.4v, my circupipe does get rather hot, but it's not burning to the touch. I did order an Antec Spot Cool fan so that I can keep the NB reasonably cool while pumping more voltage through it. If you're goal is 3.6-4ghz, which I do believe is obtainable, then you should look to do the same.

Note that for my quad to boot and benchmark at 3.6ghz, I need 1.4v in the NB

EDIT: Unfortunately if you did not build the computer yourself, getting the batch number will be difficult. It will involve dismantling the cooling system from you cpu so that you can read the numbers across your cpu's heat spreader. I wouldn't recommend doing this -- it's certainly not worth the hassle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Overspeed

Yes I did review your results, I think using shipping BIOSs we have both hit the same wall. I was using the MSI app to monitor my temps. I will try your HW monitor and see if it's different. That said, someone once told me that the E8400's were produced with a sometimes faulty temperature monitoring diode.

Edit: Ok I have CPUID HW running. I also set my bios to your exact settings. Here is what it reads:

vcore: 1.29v
tmpin0: 23C
tmpin1: 47C
core 0: 35C
core 1: 36C
gpu: 56C

What are the tmpin temps, I think 1 may be the mobo temp. I will now put under stress and see where the temps go...... ..... ..... .....
Ok according to CPUID HW monitor my temps hit 42C max after a 15 min prime95 run. The cores cooled back to the low 30`s within a minute. One thing I do notice about your settings is my NB did not get nearly as hot and still seems stable.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Overspeed

New high hit on the E8400. 3.51Ghz using these values:

BIOS: 1B4
FSB: 1560
RAM: 780
VCORE: +0.2v
DIMM: 2.1v
NB: 1.35v
SB: 1.6v
FSBT: 60

Stability unverified, but so far so good.

Edit: Above values refined after experimenting, still able to achieve 3.51Ghz:

BIOS: 1B4
FSB: 1560
RAM: 780
VCORE: +0.15v
DIMM: 2.1v
NB: 1.35v
SB: auto
FSBT: auto

I'm not sure what role the FSBT plays but I was able to get here with it left on auto. SB modification also seemed to be redundant. System would only become stable when NB voltage bumped up. 1.2v = fail 1.25v = fail 1.3v = OS load but not stable 1.35v = stable sweet spot. I'm also noticing that the vcore can remain relatively low ... at least at my current best of 3.51Ghz. More to follow.

---

Haven't checked in on the thread today, I picked up God of War for PSP and got caught up playing that most of the day. Anyways, yes my NB did seem pretty hot when set at 1.35 volts and under full load. I also had the same thing with the NB voltage, until I bumped it up to 1.35 Windows wouldn't even load without locking up. And I agree about the CPU not needing a lot of voltage.

With CPUID HW tmp0 is system temp and tmp1 is MB temp if I remmeber correctly. You have a pretty cool system temp going there because mine is in the low 30's. I get your kind of system temps in the summer when the air is on but normally get higher system temps in the winter with the heat blasting. And this has been one cold, snowy winter here in MI.

I'm currently back to default settings until probably this weekend. I will also try flashing one of the beta BIOS. I want to get some gaming in for now, still have to complete Hellgate London and Crysis. I would love to hit 4.0 for benchmarking purposes but would like to get a nice 3.4 - 3.6 stable OC for everyday computing.

theYipster, here is a look inside my case. You will notice right away my CPU cooler and the circu-pipe underneath. 2 inches below that is the 8800GTS. I wonder how I could possibly get a fan on that northbridge given my available space?

http://alpha.customfitonline.com/P1000678.jpg

Antec Spot Cool is a small fan on an adjustable stock. I think it would do the trick.

Completed a 26Hr Prime95 Small FFT run on my new rig (see signature). CPU at 3.4GHz, Vcore: 0.2000, FSB 1512, FSB Terminator: 30, NB: 1.5v, Memory 800MHz 4-4-4-13. All other settings are Auto. Temps got as high as 61C on the core and 63C on the NB.

I'm going to start moving up to 3.5GHz.

Overspeed,

From looking at your picture, I would say yhat you have a real airflow problem on the NB radiator. You might be able to mount a small fan like the Antec Spot from the CPU cooler fan housing to at least get some air flow in there.
ASUS provided an optional NB vertical fan that attached to the radiator of their Striker Extreme board. Perhaps something liek that would do the trick, I included a picture.


I have also included a few pictures of my build (named Mercury). Note the clear air path from front to back over the NB radiator.

Stan, I see how you might think that based on my photo but that giant CPU cooler is moving a fair amount of wind which defects off the MB down the the NB rad. Case has rear, top, front and bottom fans all pushing the hot air out. I may still benefit from a spot cooler, if I could only figure out how to mount such a think. Just our of curiousity, how are you able to monitor NB temps?

This is WAY of topic but something is wrong with my keyboard when using this forum. The keys I type and the keys that show up are not the same. For instance, this is what gets printed when I type question mark: &#201; &#201; &#201; &#201; &#201; This is what gets typed if I hold shift and hit numbers 1 through 0: ! " / $ &#37; ? & * ( ) Notice the missing number symbol, at symbol, and the up arrow is replaced by the real question mark. Has anyone ever seen a keyboard behave like this? I swear this only happens when typing in this forum. In notepad, Word, in other forums, my keyboard behaves correctly. GRRRR.

TheYipster, hi and thanks for the info. I'll try to get it up to 3.6GHz later using your tips, but due to busy workschedule I have little time for my own projects.

CoreTemp shows my VID as 1.3125v and have no clue to what the batch number is. Gonna change the coolingpaste and lap the cpu after the weekend, so i'll take a looksy then before I lap it. It's a G0, SLACR revision by the way.

I'm using the BIOS shipped with this board, don't know where to download the beta bios (Well, haven't really tried to find it either) :P

The FSB hole i'm experiencing is strange, seems like i'm the only one.

Goldfish,

Certainly keep us posted on your efforts. If you purchased the chip yourself and have the retail box, you can get the batch number from the white product label. It's under the section and barcode labeled FPO/Batch #. It will begin with an L. For example, mine is L737B266. Batch # together with VID are the best predictors of OC potential.

Unfortunately, a VID of 1.3125 is very high for a Q6600 G0, and you may find it quite difficult to achieve a stable 3.6ghz regardless of the motherboard used. It's not impossible and I have seen it done, but you you will likely need to pass upwards of 1.5v to the chip at load to see any stability. Since there's isn't a way (yet) to reduce vDroop on the P7N, you may need to set vCore in the BIOS upwards of 1.55v or 1.6v, which is a bit much for an air cooled chip.

Note that with my own experience with the four G0s that have passed through my hands, two had VIDs of 1.325v and neither could stabilize at 3.6ghz on an evga 680i with a tuniq tower. By the time I watercooled, I had gotten rid of both chips. One wouldn't post at 3.6ghz regardless of vCore, while the other would post with a reasonable vCore around 1.42, but wouldn't stabilize at anything higher.

Still, it's worth a shot, and if you can get the batch number, you'll at least have a more complete idea of whether or you'll succeed, as VID alone isn't as strong a prediction as VID and batch. Be sure to watch your core temperatuers while OCing. If they exceed 70-75c, then it's time to back down.

You can get Beta BIOSes from MSI's User to User forum: http://forum.msi.com.tw Note that you may have to register to get to the BETA Bioses sub-section, which can be found under the overclocking forum.

Also note that while I haven't experienced any noticeable FSB holes with my P7N, nForce boards are indeed famous for them, so I suppose it's to be expected. Often times new BIOSes will eliminate or at least move FSB holes.

Overspeed,

Look at the ASUS fan picture. The fan is a vertical mount, so the botom of the fan sits on top of the NB radiator (roller coaster). The fan draws air up from the radiator bottom and pushes it out the fan top. Note the paddle wheel fan blades. Since the fan simply clips to the radiator, you would not need any additional mount points. From your picture it looks like that might work. You can get the fans on e-bay for $10. Look for "Optional Heatpipe Fan Asus Striker". I'll try mounting mine on the radiator and let you know if it works.

TheYipster, I trew away the retail box long time ago. I am using some cheap coolingpaste now, my AS5 tupe was unfortunately empty.
I had a EVGA 680i earlier, but the thing died after just 2 weeks of use. The temps was at 70c max @ small FTT's in Prime95 (@3,2GHz 1.32v).

Now can pass 81c with ease using this bad coolingpaste, so I have backed down to 3GHz @ stock for now.

Goldfish,

My apologies, but if you're passing 70c on the 680i at 3.2ghz, then 3.6ghz is really out of the ball park for your chip w/o substiantially better cooling -- an even then it's still iffy. I hate to say it, but you may have gotten a G0 dud. It happens :( Btw, what cooling are you using?

Yipster

I'm using Noctua NH-U12F with a Arctic Cooling PWM fan, max 1500rpm in a Antec P180 case.
BTW, I used the cheap coolingpaste on the evga also. Think things will improve once I have lapped the CPU, I lapped my old P4 3,2GHz and that did the trick. Shaved 5C of idle and about 8C on load.

I got no fancontrol on this board either, but that may be my fans without a rpm-wire so the board can't detect my fans. Next month I will receive a bonus at work, maybe i'll invest in new high-reving fans. I can handle some noise when i'm playing games, but when the machine is idleing I want the fans to slow down. No luck using SpeedFan either.
Got one chassisfan with an rpm-wire, but can't control that one either.


I am not to worried about i can't overclock that high, the cpu is still fast and can with ease run at QX speeds. It's just a hobby :)

Edit: on the evga it was 24h stable @ 3GHz with 1.23volts (My EVGA was vDroop modded)

theYipster, are you currently using the 1B4 bios? Will it use lower multis with your q6600? I've only been able to successfully use 6-7-8 multi with the .P05.

GOLDFISH, even with cheap silicone paste and unlapped surfaces I think those temps are too high for your hs to be working correctly. Are you certain it's making full contact and properly tightened?

Loonym, I'm still using the shipping bios. I've had little time to do anything this week but look over this forum when I can. If I have time tonight I'll flash -- if not, then this weekend.