OCZ Powerstream 600w Vs. PC Power&cooling 510w (the definite answer)

I have been thinking of getting a 500W+ PSU for more than a year now. I read alot of threads and reviews about them and the two finals were the OCZ powerstream 600w and the PC Power & cooling 510. However, all the threads related to these two are usles. They only have opinions and did not have any solid usefull peace of information.

To get to the point. The table below shows the AC ripple for the PC Power & cooling. And it shows that this psu is an excellent one. However, I have never seen a AC ripple test for any OCZ psu. All are voltage regulation tests.

Have anyone seen, have or tested the AC ripple with an O-scope for a 600w powerstream?
Please show it if you have.
That would lead to the definite answer.

Thank you

http://athlonmb.com/images/psuroundu...Load_table.jpg
source: http://athlonmb.com/article-display....=270&PageID=15

As a matter of fact, our very own Craig588 on these forums tested a PC&P 510 W.
It did badly, it fluctuated by a large amout.

Everybody here seems to hold the OCZ in high esteem though.

Just my 2 cents.

Craig didnt put a capacitor between lead and test point I believe... its required for "proper" testing although having to add something doesnt seem right...

He's not the first to test one and have that result, though... so i'll just say we need to look into the matter further.

I dont have an o-scope unfortunately otherwise I would test my 600w Powerstream for you. It should be here tomarrow.... been waiting on it for a while :P

what load was this test done at?? what kind of load??? Did the load vary in power cunsumption??? what kind of scope? Was the scope calibrated recently? where was the measurement taken from on the power supply??

Ripple frequency and amplitude on a Switchmode power supply varies with different values in resistive load and different values of reactive loads. was there a controlled load in these tests?????

If the power supply isn't loaded very heavily, ripple will be more noticable due to a lower frequency of the Pulse and a narrower width of the pulse. How hard were the power supplies loaded down during these tests???

If the load was an actual motherboard, the load is going to be varying contantly regardless of what that stupid CPU usage graph says the computer is doing. A varying load will create lots of ripple due to the frequency and pulse width of the supply rapidly changing to regulate the voltage. A power supply with good transient response will appear to have horrendous ripple characteristics when viewed on a scope. A good transient response is needed to keep adequate current flowing when loaded down instantaneously. Did the test person factor this into the equation?????

Also if a motherboard was used, the ripple created by the motherboards switchmode power supply will create ripple and noise on the line. Did the test person even know this????

If the reading was measured at the end of a molex connector that had a load attatched to it, your getting a false view of the true wave coming out of the P.S. Most people dont realize that at high current, wire is a resistor, which will effect voltage levels at the end of it. This is why the new ATX standard has more pins to connect the high current rails to the motherboard and video card. Measuring voltage at the end of a wire with a load attached will give you a false reading of what the power supply is really doing. this is why I upgrade all the wire in all my power supplies to 10 gauge cable. the 18 gauge commonly used has a voltage drop that is significant when high current is flowing. Where in the signal chain where measurements taken???

Also regulated power supplies all behave differently with different reactive loads. Some produce more power and are more efficient into reacitve loads, some go into oscillation and burn up. what was the loading in these tests?!?!?!?

When measuring high voltgages margins for error are smaller because of the abundance of voltage to measure above noise levels. A cheap scope will make any small signal look noisy. When measuring small voltages calibration and scope quality are paramount. if your doing small signal measurements with a cheap uncalibrated scope, your going to see an inaccurate representation of the wave. Also did the tester factor in the fact that the regulation circuitry is going to be varying the frequency and pulse width of the supply which will shift voltage levels and will create huge off the chart graphs??

I really dont think people should be testing this kind of stuff and publishing their inaccurate results on the web when the tests were not done properly in a controlled situation, with controlled loads, and precision calibrated equipment. When well meaning enthusiasts make these types of "Reviews" on products my corporation designs and manufactures and publishes them on the web for all to read, they better make dangggggg sure their results are accurate and repeatable, because if not, we have every right to take legal action against them.

If you have good reliable information please post and let it be known, but if you are un-qualified to do an accurate test, I urge you to think twice before posting bad information. Not only does it unfairly prejudice consumers against a product or company costing them money in revenue. but it could get you into a very nasty legal battle which you will most likely lose.

Me personally, I have the PCP&C 510, and have never looked at the ripple on my fully calibrated and certified $16,000 Tektronics Digital Phospor Spectrum Analyzer Storage Scope. But I can give you a recommendation in that I have completely solved the instability issues at 4.3GHz with a Northwood 3.2 that I had with another power supply. But to tell you the absolute truth, At this price range your gonna be happy with either of the supplies. a couple of milivolts difference in ripple aint gonna make or break your system. If you want significant improvements on your ripple voltage you gotta do modifications to your power supply and motherboard.

Hope this information was useful, sorry for the noval, I like to write I guess... :D

(By the way I'm not in the computer industry and have no affiliation with any companies in the computer industry. Ultra-Fi Precision audio and Other inudstries well.... You better be accurate on your reviews or else we'll be contacting you. :D )

Wow! ... ThanX for the novel SPL15. Heck, even I learned something. :D

Haven't seen a ripple review for the 600w Powerstream. Which is surprising given how
popular they are. It is probably not up to snuff, but there is one for the 520w Powerstream:
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/psus/index.x?pg=18
You likely already saw that though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPL15

You better be accurate on your reviews or else we'll be contacting you. :D )

But to tell you the absolute truth, At this price range your gonna be happy with either of the supplies.

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I think it's clear that I did not do the review. I did put the source under the table.
Of course you knew that. Just to make sure. :D

that was a long reply, I had to print it. ;) :D

Even if his ways of testing were wrong, you can conclude which is best by comparing with the other psu's in the table. It's like a benchmark really. So if you have both, please test them.

I know that they are both excellent, it is just that when you pay more than 200$ on a psu you really want it to be the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Susquehannock

Wow! ... ThanX for the novel SPL15. Heck, even I learned something. :D

Haven't seen a ripple review for the 600w Powerstream. Which is surprising given how
popular they are. It is probably not up to snuff, but there is one for the 520w Powerstream:
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/psus/index.x?pg=18
You likely already saw that though.

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Yes, I've seen it. But they really have to be tested together with the same equipment and tests in order to conclude.

Sorry I didn't mention that in my first post.

Upgrading the wires on the PSU? Oh yeah, everyone does that. If the manufactures knew that they needed thicker gauge wires they should have used them in the first place. The most I have done is add more wires in parallel, but I didn't do that for these tests.

I used the exact same system for all of my testing. It was a P4C at 4.1GHz with 1GB of ram running a folding app for load. I didn't use any extra capacitors or anything, I had no idea that you are supposed to measure the voltage through a cap once the current is outside of the PSU. I was taking my readings off of the ATX header without any extra cap in line. I did make a serious ommision there, and once I was informed of it I have included the fact I made it in every one of my PCPNP 510 DLX posts.

EVERY other PSU I tested gave me perfectly smooth rails, and I tested at least 15 different high end ones. Even if my test was inaccurate, every single PSU was measured with the same inaccuracy.

I sold off all of those extra PSUs because I only wanted them to test, they cost me well over 1000$ for all of them and I just don't have enough money to let them just sit in a closet in case I needed to test another one.

I have been meaning to purchase a OCZ 600 though because I really want to put my approval on that PSU because I like most of what OCZ does. (the only thing that really bothers me is the marketing associated with the OCZ DDR booster)

HA NO!! I didnt see the source under the table!!! I feel like a dumb a$$ now!!!

that review isn't that bad at all. some of the theory stuff is tad bit wierd in how he explains it, but he understands it better than 95% of the engineers I deal with. Some of his test methods could have been more controlled, but not bad, but for sure 100% definitely not something I would take to a meeting when asked to do testing on a product line, but again it wasnt meant to be that controlled and thorough.

I thought that table was just some guy pulling numbers out his butt with a DMM or cheap scope... My apologies for the hammering....

I agree about OCZ's marketing, but dang near every marketing department of every company is twisted and crooked. I've gotten on my Corporation's marketing department many of times for plain out lying about specifications and/or misleading specifications. In my industry, lies are more common than the truth, and wire some how attains a magical state of being from having cheap sleaving and neoprene jackets with ooohh ahh gold ends on it. I tell my marketing department if I cant measure it with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of test equipment, then it aint measurable and doesnt exist so dont lie and say it does.

A lot of companies feed on consumer misinformation, and in my opinion, that is just plain sad. I can not stand talking with someone who thinks they know what they are talking about because they got their information from a brochure or something a marketing department produced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPL15

In my industry, lies are more common than the truth, and wire some how attains a magical state of being from having cheap sleaving and neoprene jackets with ooohh ahh gold ends on it. I tell my marketing department if I cant measure it with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of test equipment, then it aint measurable and doesnt exist so dont lie and say it does.

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lol :D

You should take some "lamp chord" and use it with a 2KW load vs. the wire they are using to show them the sleaving decreases its thermal capacity beyond adding anything but bling to the wire maybe.. bet they'd love you for that :D

What about the 700W Zippy? ;) Or just save the money and get a 530W Fortron which rocks.

Just FYI:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=16738
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=14802

OCZ, Tagan and BeQuiet PSUs are manufactured by Topower.

regards,
halcyon

Shouldn't you be blaming your retailer as opposed to Tagan? Sounds like they sold you a unit that had been tampered with/repaired. So go make a fuss and ask for a new unit. [quote from thread]

that second link seems to be the wholesalers fault :rolleyes:

It would be great if we could get someone like SPL15 to do tests on *all* the psu's with those high-end equip methinks..not to say craig588 tests are bad but you can't really compare cheaper w. the more expensive so for the greatest amount of precision.

Btw doesn't this belong in Hardware>>General Hardware?

Did anyone note that the Zalman unit in the link was a Fortron? BTW Topower also manufactures many/most of Antecs units as well as Tagan units.

Once again, I plug Fortron, and this time for a reason. Price/Performance dominance, as well as low ripple king. I would really like to see a 550 or 460 Fortron at 45 C. go head to head with other "high end" PSU's. The results would be interesting, since FSP advertises a 50 C. Burn in and test to meet specs on case before shipping the 460 and 550 models. I doubt that many PSU's can deliver their rated output at those temps. Pay all you want for shiny cases, modular connectors and cool lights, but many stick to value and performance.

either way i still say for the OCer OCZ 600w powerstream kills due to adjustable pots:D and massive rails.

If you really wanna go all out balls to the wall, get a REAL switchmode power supply used for industrial, medical, and critical systems.

You think high end computer power supplies area expensive, try thousands of dollars for some of the real nice SMPS's i've seen. If your worried about ripple, voltage fluctuation, current limits, etc. it may be a possible solution to the comparatively cheaply engineered/designed computer power supplies that everyone thinks is the holyest grail of grails to be grailed.

Funny how you bring up the whole OEM thingy, 90% of the electronic gizzamahoo's you buy are simply sold under a marketing companies brand name and made by a company that makes several competing marketing company's products. Also funny how america is where this goes un-noticed by 99.9% of the public and people here argue that marketing company XXX's gazamahoo is way better than marketing company YYY's gazamahoo even though they are made by the same OEM in malayasia and can be found there for 10% of the cost here in the states.....

If I had the time and motivation to test power supplies and got paid my 50 dollars an hour to do it, I would, but I dont see that happening. testing power supplies ain't that hard, and certainly doesnt warrant an indepth analysis of a frickin ripple voltage to say it is good. ripple voltage matters percent rise, not absolute value wise. and doesnt matter at all if the device that is being powered factors it into design.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aCidbAbY

Shouldn't you be blaming your retailer as opposed to Tagan? Sounds like they sold you a unit that had been tampered with/repaired. So go make a fuss and ask for a new unit. [quote from thread]

that second link seems to be the wholesalers fault :rolleyes:

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I'm not blaming anyone.

I'm merely pointing out that OCZ PSUs are made by Topower.

Also, Topower PSUs are not very high quality in many cases, some Tagan's being unfit for sale (the way they are designed/built).

I have no beef with anyone.

My Tagan, regardless of all of the above, is working ok for me (knock on wood).

Don't confuse me with somebody else :)

halcyon

what you fail to mention is that our PSU is made to different specs to the tagan and
the standard topower units.

If you want the specs of a powerstream you have to buy a powerstream

hello i just needed a post like this one, im about to spend a lot of money (for me) on a psu i got 200 usd i can get enermax psu (im buying it in taiwan) and i would like to get some pointer to wich psu should i buy (maybe another brand like ocz), i need a psu for long a long time hope you can help me

How do the big Zippy PSU's compare to the PCP&C and OCZ Powerstream?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metro_oc.cl

hello i just needed a post like this one, im about to spend a lot of money (for me) on a psu i got 200 usd i can get enermax psu (im buying it in taiwan) and i would like to get some pointer to wich psu should i buy (maybe another brand like ocz), i need a psu for long a long time hope you can help me

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just get the OCZ powerstream it will not disappiont :stick: and the 600w is future proof :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aCidbAbY

just get the OCZ powerstream it will not disappiont :stick: and the 600w is future proof :toast:

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ok thanks m8 ill look for a ocz store in taiwan :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aCidbAbY

just get the OCZ powerstream it will not disappiont :stick: and the 600w is future proof :toast:

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I second this!! OCZ PSU's are awesome!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aCidbAbY

either way i still say for the OCer OCZ 600w powerstream kills due to adjustable pots:D and massive rails.

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:rolleyes:

pcp&c = adjustable pots and better rails, higher sustained output, less mv ripple, higher peak output, customized options, 5 year warranty, any anything you can possibly think of done to it. You want 50amps on 12v line? ask em. want every cable a certain length? they'll do it. Want a 20 SATA connecter psu? Done. Exernal pots mounted on 3 foot wires? WAy ahead of you. No limit on adjustable pots, and no OVP? Of course.

I can't believe people think OCZ is on par with pcp&c, when they are made by topower and pcp&c is zippy/emacs, and I can give you quotes from an ocz rep themselves as well as hipro about the pcp&c's superiority.