Thermalfins radiators

Ok, so we have all been so existed with the new TFC radiator line-up-Admiral-that was delayed for several times now. But it looks like they are not coming out at all due to some misunderstanding between Feser guys and its partners: FrozenCPU and LottersMettal. While the first is popular for its great watercooling shop, the last one, less know in watercooling community, is German manufacturing company that decided to go on his own and prepared a new line of PC watercooling radiators - Thermalfins
http://www.abload.de/img/termalfins-x_x5004e04.png
An overview article on first Thermalfins product was recently published on hw-lab.com: Thermalfins — a new contribution to watercooling
As we see these have similar cooling design compared to first revision of Admiral rads since both were designed and manufactured by the same company in Germany - LottersMettal (not a partner of TFC anymore)

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Originally Posted by Tom from LottersMettal

TFC tried to twit me on the worst way…! There´s no patent owned by TFC…because…a contract has to be signed ( this contract was done by the patent attorney )…this contract should arrange the cooperation between TFC and me…and after all was done, TFC didn´t sign it !

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Tom is the same guy that was interviewed on hw-lab.com (currently not available) to reveal details of design features of Admiral rads:

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Originally Posted by Artem (hw-lab.com)

Can you tell us about materials that are used in the production of these radiators?

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Originally Posted by "Tom (developer)

"The material, these radiators are made of, is aluminum and stainless-steel. The first reason was, to get this rads done in compliance with ROHS-confirmation. No lead (Pb) and no Cadmium (Cd) inside. But there´s no aluminum in the water-channels! The water-bearing parts are made of a really fine stainless tube, with an inside structure, which allows an optimal thermal transfer to the outside aluminum-fins. Everyone knows about the heat conductance of copper and we all know, that stainless steel is worse than copper. But, in this case we only need a thermal breakthrough to the aluminum and that’s mostly dependent on physical inertia. The wall-thickness of the stainless tube is only 0,2mm. So, the heat of the coolant is moving right through to the alu-fins…

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This is true for Thermalfins rads too, which again indicates similarities between newcomer rads and Admiral. But this also shows that Feser could have placed orders at LottersMettal to produce Admiral. Here is how Tom comments the situation:

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Many of you might be familiar with the history of these radiators, so I'll skip this "dark chapter of a cooperation".
It's true that the radiators look a lot alike as they are part of the same "family".
The entire production is designed for high quality...starting at the used materials (I know...stainless steel), over the way surface treatment, to the service. Why stainless steel out of all the possibilities?
When taking a look at the prices of copper, one can see that they are skyrocketing. Stainless steel can't transfer heat as good as copper, but, and this is the most important part, if I cover a 0.2mm thick pipe out of stainless steel with an aluminum pipe, the material of the inner pipe gets less and less important... (Did anyone ever touch a knife out of stainless steel, that just came out of the dishwasher? It's damn hot!)...a thermal breakthrough occurs, the thermal conductivity of the aluminum is all that counts, so everything works out just fine. So much for the stainless steel issue.
Also, there's no soldering involved in the production. Everything is welded together by lasers, resulting in no deformation at all. It also doesn't require any additives, so the radiators are fully RoHS-compilant.

I hope I was able to explain a few things...
Regards,
Tom / thermalfins

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Thanks bundymania for translation:up:

Finally, here are some pics to get more excited :)
http://hw-lab.com/uploads/cooling/li...-x3-1_x275.jpg http://hw-lab.com/uploads/cooling/li...-x3-5_x275.jpg http://hw-lab.com/uploads/cooling/li...-x3-9_x275.jpg http://hw-lab.com/uploads/cooling/li...x3-11_x275.jpg

Still waiting for first test results
:welcome:

These probably will be more reasonably priced, both because no modular design, and maybe because of more sensible pricing policy then mad price markups by TFC. Now just waiting for performance numbers.

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Originally Posted by churchy

These probably will be more reasonably priced, both because no modular design, and maybe because of more sensible pricing policy then mad price markups by TFC. Now just waiting for performance numbers.

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Wrong; TFC went modular to cut production cost. That does not mean TFC would not just pocket the difference. For the tripple radiator, 250 USD is what is floating around. Not sure that is an accurate number, we will have to wait and see.

you can look on hw labs it says exactly how much they weill cost - for example 180€ for the tripple 140mm rad. Not cheap, but then again if, due to their thickness an different build, they are able to dissipate more heat than a current tripple rad, the price might be justified

edit - sorry the tripple is 185 Euros. No price announced yet for the X1, X2 or X4

But but but... it also says "Subject to change". So hopefully we'll see more appealing price tag ;)
Still, performance is top priority, IMHO, then the price

I'm waiting to see how their 60mm thick rads do.
105mm thick is so impractical, doesn't fit almost anywhere...
They don't even have their own web-site, do they?

http://thermalfins.com/ - just a placeholder though, all it says is:

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thermalfin´s X3 Radiators ... coming soon !

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New players in the game is always interesting. Let's see...

Grabs pop-corn... :D

Let's just hope this doesn't end up like it did last September/October with the Admirals...

I just want to see some benchmarks and reviews to see if these are worth all the hype. Ya know...I hear there's a new unicorn farm out in Colorado...

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Originally Posted by rubix_1011

Ya know...I hear there's a new unicorn farm out in Colorado...

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:rofl:

The price of 180€ is for 110mm version that is something like monsta radiators were priced few years ago.

This whole mess makes me sick. Frozen has high prices, but they have always treated me right and my orders have been perfect every time. I hate to see them lose their asses on this. TFC is a joke and I will never buy anything marketed by them /rant

As far as TFC goes, I have never been very impressed w/them, or their products. They will likely fade away with time.

I am very interested in this new rad design, time will tell if it's new and improved.

If it's good, it'll be the first real forward move in rad design since the original TC PA160.1. That goes back quite awhile.

I really want this to be a game changer, still have doubts about it though. Need some testing soon.

it big

Honestly, I don't think there will be anymore "game changers". I think improvements will be incremental. I am honestly much more excited about Swiftech's new "Extreme Performance" line. The qp rads performed as well as rads twice their size.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Yeah we're really not getting much improvement for thermals... so why get this rad? Because it looks sick as hell!

In all seriousness, pretty much all cooling methods are approaching their asymptotes pretty fast, sadly. It's inevitable, really... but creativity isn't going anywhere! Hopefully these rads are able to perform better in certain airflow conditions that conventional radiators couldn't touch.

oh wow, you could make a sandwich with 2 normal thickness rads and it will be just as thick as one of these things.

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Originally Posted by skinnee

I should be getting one soon, it will go on the bench as soon as it arrives.

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Source

Looking good!

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Originally Posted by Aaronharmon

This whole mess makes me sick. Frozen has high prices, but they have always treated me right and my orders have been perfect every time. I hate to see them lose their asses on this. TFC is a joke and I will never buy anything marketed by them /rant

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Another way you can look at it is that other reseller's prices are too low.

The price wars have gotten to the point where the manufacturers (myself and others) barely have any money to be made, because we're constantly under pressure from our resellers to offer lower and lower wholesale prices.

Resellers getting in a pissing match with each other over pricing only hurts the entire manufacturer and reseller community as a whole.



I'm not saying competition is bad, what I'm saying is that resellers that sell at or below cost just to "win" with the lowest price, end up shooting themselves in the foot, because they devalue the item for the entire market, and start the cycle all over again.



Frozen's higher prices are the reason they've done so well, expanded, and are able to make large investments in watercooling companies such as Feser, regardless of whether those investments work out or not. Overall they're a benefit to the community IMO.



Now, smaller overhead, mom & pop shops also have their place, and are able to offer lower prices because of it. As long as they don't go overboard, there's room in the market for both.

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Originally Posted by matari

Wrong; TFC went modular to gain more profit. That does mean TFC would have just pocketed the difference. For the tripple radiator, 250 USD is what is floating around. Not sure that is an accurate number, we will have to wait and see.

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:p:

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Originally Posted by iandh

Another way you can look at it is that other reseller's prices are too low.

The price wars have gotten to the point where the manufacturers (myself and others) barely have any money to be made, because we're constantly under pressure from our resellers to offer lower and lower wholesale prices.

Resellers getting in a pissing match with each other over pricing only hurts the entire manufacturer and reseller community as a whole.

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your tipping on a doubled edged sword here with this statement.

Yes we have been spoiled silly with the MCR320, but that was a good move by swiftech.

Because the MCR320 is so cheap, its called the Camry of radiators, and hence like camry's there spam'd.

Spaming MCR320's means more people are buying water products which is an overall win.


And Rad prices, i still think are a bit inflated.

Im sorry, if i can go out and pick up a full copper Koyo rad retail, which has more quality then any of our rads, for as much as a 120x4 radiator... OUR radiators are overpriced.

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Originally Posted by JoeBar

New players in the game is always interesting. Let's see...

Grabs pop-corn... :D

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HW-labs??

Dude they been in the game a very very very long time.
Its the first rad company Danger Den paired up with.



Anyhow id like to see numbers on this radiator.
Ive seen videos, and it was sexy... no joke...

But the main question that boggles my head is did they managed to do what magicool couldnt.

As i was saying in another thread, magicool has been playing with the ideas of passive radiator.
And this radiator looks like its a upgraded version of this guy:

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino...t/IMG_0834.jpg

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino...t/IMG_0835.jpg


Incase your wondering.. magicool never released that unit, because they told me personally it failed.

I tried very hard to get a sample of that radiator...

lol...

This is niche. Niche products always are premium priced. Imho those auto/moto rads are sold in much bigger volumes then PC LC gear.

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Originally Posted by churchy

This is niche. Niche products always are premium priced. Imho those auto/moto rads are sold in much bigger volumes then PC LC gear.

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that being said there is no room to argue on a price of a MCR320.

which was gabes intension.

You think cheap, solid radiator, what pops in your head?
To me its the MCR! :D

And i think gabe likes it that way.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

that being said there is no room to argue on a price of a MCR320.

which was gabes intension.

You think inexpensive, solid radiator, what pops in your head?
To me its the MCR! :D

And i think gabe likes it that way.

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Fixed. :rolleyes:

Often european rad vendor rads are cheaper in europe side of pond LC shops then swiftech's though. So it's not exactly world dominating, but close :)