[S/A]How Nvidia blacklists sites like Hardware Secrets

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/...dware-secrets/

Nvidia is really losing a lot of my respect these days...

He really doesnt like nvidia. Even though i wouldnt be surprised if there was a degree of truth in that article, you should always be aware of how biased the author of the article is :P

I would love to know the source for that checklist in the article.

Anandtech extremely faintly hinted about this in either the 9800GTX+ or GTS250 review.


But hey, it started way before this. G80 (8800GTX) had an initial reviewer's guide...

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Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

I would love to know the source for that checklist in the article.

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http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...ard-Review/719

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Originally Posted by www.hardwaresecrets.com

This time we have NVIDIA blacklisting us. After we published a review – without any support from them, N.B. – they complained that we didn’t talk about CUDA or PhysX. I replied saying that we weren’t going to talk about these subjects because we thought they were not relevant to the average user, and we usually don’t re-write reviews. I think this is funny, we have to make a lot of effort to get samples because NVIDIA doesn’t help us and then when we publish the review they complain? If they had given us any kind of support or talked to us clarifying why they think commenting these features would make any real sense to the average user we wouldn’t be so frustrated. But all the reasons they gave us were manufactured by their propaganda machine.

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http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/...re-Secrets/174


looks like hardwaresecrets.com got their Bacon grilled by Nvidia.

It's usually partner cards that get tested rather than cards directly from nVidia - so it's not as if a blacklist means a lot - you just know that instead of calling a contact at nVidia, you call BFG or Zotac.

^^^
Oh, well I guess it's ok to act like this...
so Nv doesn't hold any power over it's starving partners then?

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

He really doesnt like nvidia. Even though i wouldnt be surprised if there was a degree of truth in that article, you should always be aware of how biased the author of the article is :P

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I think it's obvious that despite the 'dislike' that the author has far more integrity than Nv...

I'm just sick of Nv right now...

I have received a significant amount of hardware from NVIDIA over the years. I've never been told that I had to post about something, or not post about something. This smells like a load to me. :shrug:

I believe there was some disappointment that many reviewers focused entirely on DX9/10 performance, to the point of nearly ignoring DX11. I can see sites that couldn't be bothered to write about DX11, or changed graphics settings when comparing competing parts on the same graph, not being prioritized for hardware in the future.


Amorphous

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

He really doesnt like nvidia. Even though i wouldnt be surprised if there was a degree of truth in that article, you should always be aware of how biased the author of the article is :P

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Originally Posted by onewingedangel

It's usually partner cards that get tested rather than cards directly from nVidia - so it's not as if a blacklist means a lot - you just know that instead of calling a contact at nVidia, you call BFG or Zotac.

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Originally Posted by Semiaccurate

This time however, they crossed the line from plausible denial-ability to flat out deception. In the middle of last week we heard what Nvidia was up to this time around, but just couldn't believe they would be THAT sleazy. A day or so later, HardOCP published a story about Nvidia stock 'plummeting', basically an indignant backhand for being cut out of the GTS250's launch. Point one confirmed. The rest soon followed.

Just what are the green fumblers doing this time? Two things, one bad, the other straight out deception. The bad one is simple, if you don't review Nvidia cards and say that PhysX is the greatest thing since sliced bread and CUDA makes sex better, you aren't doing a good enough job. They will gently nudge you to change your tune to praise PhysX and CUDA until you wear the letters off your keyboard.

By gently nudge we mean bluntly threaten, and by bluntly we mean not bluntly at all. Competence would help, as would the carrot and stick approach, but Nvidia doesn't like carrots. They just threaten. Kyle made the mistake of being honest, so it is doghouse time for him, and the site. Welcome to the club, we even have a fort. I assume you got the list of who got cut too, so you know we will have quite big name company soon. Punch and pie.

So, short story, Nvidia dislikes honesty, and since they have no new product, they are afraid of that particular trait. If you didn't drool over PhysX and CUDA enough, you are cut out. This is exactly what Apple does to keep the press in line, but Apple has something Nvidia doesn't, competence.

If that wasn't bad enough, the next part is. Normally, when a vendor cuts you out, if you really care, you can go to one of their partners and get boards/chips/whatever. Sometimes this is a better idea because one or two tend to have a special card, overclocked, shiny metal cooler, or box with bigger breasts on the model. This time Nvidia specifically forbade partners from giving sites parts if they were on honesty hiatus.

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nvidia-cuts-out-reviewers

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Originally Posted by BoredByLife

[S/A]How Nvidia blacklists Hardware Secrets

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fixed.

Nvidia reminds me of North Korea..

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Originally Posted by Amorphous

I have received a significant amount of hardware from NVIDIA over the years. I've never been told that I had to post about something, or not post about something. This smells like a load to me. :shrug:

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well your a fan of nvidia, so obviously your gonna say good things about them and they wont ask you to revise any statements...

dont get me wrong im not saying its a bad thing that your a fan of nvidia, im just telling you, that probably makes a difference... if somebody always supported you in the past youll treat him well, obviously...

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Originally Posted by Amorphous

I believe there was some disappointment that many reviewers focused entirely on DX9/10 performance, to the point of nearly ignoring DX11.

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well its not like there are that many dx11 games out there, and the few that are available look 99% the same in dx10.1 ... so i can see why reviewers dont focus on dx11 that much... the only reason nvidia cared so much about dx11 is because thats where they have an advantage over ati, they can handle tesselation better than ati...
just months before they were telling everybody how dx10.1 doesnt matter at all, and that dx11 would only take off in 2011 or 2012 and their 10.0 cards were perfectly fine... remember that? :D

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Originally Posted by Amorphous

I can see sites that couldn't be bothered to write about DX11, or changed graphics settings when comparing competing parts on the same graph, not being prioritized for hardware in the future.

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yeah, theres nothing wrong with that, you cant really blame a company for working with people that give them something in return and are nice to work with, for them... the weird thing here is that nvidia didnt support this site before, they still got a review sample somehow or maybe even bought a card, and instead of being happy for more coverage and attention, they are nitpicking on how exactly they reviewed the card... thats pretty weird... kinda reminds me of something id expect apple to do...

about the list of questions:

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Did they write that we have an architecture advantage? (Y/N)

GTX 480 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low)

GTX 470 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low)

Did they complain about power?

Did they complain about noise?

Did they complain about heat?

Design Garage

Supersonic Sled

Water/Hair Testing

Unigine 2.0

MS DX11 SDK

Stone Giant

Folding@Home

Did they test with Catalyst AI On? (Y/N)

Did they call out AMD on their cheat?

If yes, give link

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to me that doesnt sound suspicious at all, it sounds like a standard pr survey to get an idea of how the press received their new cards and how the press reviewed them, what points the press focussed on and what parts they didnt, so nvidia can get an idea of what they should push more, or what they should ignore etc...

and nvidia fabricated the catalyst cheating story?
i find it hard to believe that pcgh and other review sites lied to us about the beta review driver that boosted performance...

i dont know, i think charlie is reading too much into this one... not saying its not true, but from this list of questions i cant really derive anything evil or morally wrong...

NVIDIA is really acting childish and resorting to such immaturity these days its not even funny.

All I have to say is that I've always looked at video cards like I have at cpu's,sometimes one company has the better product, sometimes the other has.
BUT a company has to understand that the one thing they HAVE to present to the public is beleivability no matter how they compare to their competitor.
AMD for example has handled this well during the C2D time frame when they were getting beat by Intel.
They worked on their line and brought forth better products to the point where today it's a damned close horserace between the two companies.

nVidia is seems just hasn't "gotten it" that you can't play these games in the modern world with it's instant worldwide communication.
They will eventually but they willl take a big hit in the pocketbook learning this fact.

Lol so Charlie's insiders at TSMC have now access to surveys Nvidia makes? :rofl:

Blacklisting sites is another thing, but as for the list, I don't see anything wrong with it...

I used to do product reviews for a smaller web site and I never had Nvidia request I test under certain conditions, as many other have done in the past. Maybe some people are Nvidia Fans, but i am a fan of what works well for the right situation. Now I no longer work for that web site because I refuse to do Biased reviews.

I am not sure why anyone would use ole charlie as an example of unbiased reporting. because hes probably the most biased individual on the net today. And is the worst example of impartial reporting I have ever seen, and this is coming from a former editor.

Folding For The Future
EG

hmmmm interesting

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Originally Posted by FoldingFanatic

I used to do product reviews for a smaller web site and I never had Nvidia request I test under certain conditions, as many other have done in the past. Maybe some people are Nvidia Fans, but i am a fan of what works well for the right situation. Now I no longer work for that web site because I refuse to do Biased reviews.

I am not sure why anyone would use ole charlie as an example of unbiased reporting. because hes probably the most biased individual on the net today. And is the worst example of impartial reporting I have ever seen, and this is coming from a former editor.

Folding For The Future
EG

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nvidia only sends review samples to BIG sites... like the top 100 or top 50 sites worldwide i think... probably even less, they usually have their partners take care of the press and they do a much better job at it than nvidia themselves...

It's BS IMO.

Hardware Secrets also shouldn't take it upon themselves to arbitrarily decide not to mention features (CUDA et all) just because the writer thinks they have no impact upon his readers. They are features which should be talked about even in passing in order to let said readers decide for themselves whether they are important or not.

As for the list. Haha. Let's see where we stand:

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Did they write that we have an architecture advantage? (Y/N) NO. However, it has been proven that NVIDIA DOES have an architectural advantage in DX11.

GTX 480 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low): GOOD. Because it really is.

GTX 470 Pricing (Good, Too High, Too Low) GOOD. See above. The pricing is good.

Did they complain about power? YES

Did they complain about noise? YES

Did they complain about heat? YES

Design Garage NO TESTING

Supersonic Sled NO TESTING

Water/Hair Testing NO

Unigine 2.0 YES

MS DX11 SDK NO

Stone Giant NO

Folding@Home NO

Did they test with Catalyst AI On? (Y/N) YES

Did they call out AMD on their cheat? NO

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So according to Charlie, we would be cut out. A number of other large websites would be cut out as well (HardOCP, LegitReviews, Anandtech just to name a few) but they aren't and won't be.

is this not illegal? why would nvidia do this?

its up to author to decide if cuda is worth of mentioning or not defending such actions is stupid imho like that site or not

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Originally Posted by .hardwaresecrets.com

After we published a review – without any support from them, N.B. – they complained that we didn’t talk about CUDA or PhysX. I replied saying that we weren’t going to talk about these subjects because we thought they were not relevant to the average user, and we usually don’t re-write reviews

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Ohhh, now i understand their name.... hardwaresecrets:rofl:

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Hardware Secrets also shouldn't take it upon themselves to arbitrarily decide not to mention features (CUDA et all) just because the writer thinks they have no impact upon his readers. They are features which should be talked about even in passing in order to let said readers decide for themselves whether they are important or not.

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wow... do you really think so?
a reviewer should basically ignore his own knowledge of the market, his readers and technology and just blindly follow the manufacturer in product reviews? i liked most of your reviews but this... puts them in a different light... :D

None of the gamers care about CUDA. Physx, maybe, but CUDA??? If you are a game site, why should you explain anything about CUDA if you know it bores your readers?