Chilly1 Evap, Condensation Issues.

I'm running a chilly1 evap, with his mounting kit and insulation.

I have had nothing but issues with condensation. If I turn the machine off for a little while (30mins), water will start to drip out from around the socket.

The foam that goes on the evap seems to be both too tall, and too thick, but it was what was provided with the evap and mounting kit.

It recently killed my p5wd2, and I can't continute to leave the machine on 24/7 so that the snow doesn't melt into water.

When removing the cold evap, there is snow all around the inside of the mounting bracket. The socket was greased up, and the mount was as tight as it could go.

Anyone have ideas?

I need to have new gaskets made that fit tight around the socket for LGA775. I cheat and use a Vapochill bottom gasket.

I dont thaw out ever, my machine runs 24/7 and if I have a melt down I am one to break the socket down and make sure its dry before restart.

I have used a chilly1 evap, I did not like the mounting and the o-ring was not provided to me. I insulated the evap inside the black shell, put the black shell on, and insulated some more. I insulated and I insulated.
Make sure though you can get an air tight seal, maybe fall back onto the old seal-string setup?

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

I need to have new gaskets made that fit tight around the socket for LGA775. I cheat and use a Vapochill bottom gasket.

I dont thaw out ever, my machine runs 24/7 and if I have a melt down I am one to break the socket down and make sure its dry before restart.

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I usually don't shutdown either. However, I have had to turn the machine off a few times recently for some hardware upgrades and modifications.

Thawing out every time doesn't sound like a solution. At some point this will not be a 24/7 machine, and I can't be bothered to take it apart everytime I want to use it.

Please let me know if you get something else that will work, as I will need it too.

I cut the round foam insulation down some and i use foam tape around the socket. I havent had a problem yet and i dont use grease in the socket either.

I dont have a chilly 1 evap but I have had the same problem ( condensation after shutdown) no matter how much I insulate and grease the socket.
I lost 2 video cards within a 6 week time span, I ran it 24/7 after loosing the first card but returned home and found there was a power outage which helped to claim the second.
I was considering mounting the board upside down on my next phase change because the condesation dripped from the evaporator both times with no sign of condensation in the socket.
Of course we cant always run 24/7 so I am very much interested in a solution.

Good luck

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Originally Posted by {PMS}fishy

I usually don't shutdown either. However, I have had to turn the machine off a few times recently for some hardware upgrades and modifications.

Thawing out every time doesn't sound like a solution. At some point this will not be a 24/7 machine, and I can't be bothered to take it apart everytime I want to use it.

Please let me know if you get something else that will work, as I will need it too.

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Errr.. thawing out isn't an option? You are only asking for trouble than. Quick tip for you. Turn unit off, turn computer on and sit in bios till it hits about 40c. Turn it off. Thawing should take no more than 2-3 minutes this way.
As for condensation proofing on asus mobo... I've had same problem (not inside socket but outside on vrm area. You DON'T need to use the full height of donut really, cut some if you feel it is too tall. As long as you can make tight seal inside is not a problem. in my case it was outside unfortunetely...
As for A64 setups thanks to having bit more room around socket, I don't have condensation problem ever really :P
To be honest on intel side, if your single stage can cool well enough, you will need heaters to take away heat from motherboard the way I look at it to stop cold to spread out to motherboard itself.

?

If there is condensation in the sealed area it's not sealed.

You need to find out why.

If the caps surrounding the socket area are holding up the foam ring, cut little notches out of the ring so it sits tight onto the mobo.

Also to get a nice seal, you can put just a little dilectric on the base of the ring to ensure it's airtight.

remove the ring and look at it's contact. if there are obvious reasons for air leakage, you need to find out, and fix it.


Gray

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Originally Posted by Gray Mole

?

If there is condensation in the sealed area it's not sealed.

You need to find out why.

If the caps surrounding the socket area are holding up the foam ring, cut little notches out of the ring so it sits tight onto the mobo.

Also to get a nice seal, you can put just a little dilectric on the base of the ring to ensure it's airtight.

remove the ring and look at it's contact. if there are obvious reasons for air leakage, you need to find out, and fix it.


Gray

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Well, it starts off with air in it. Unless I can get the air out, I will still have the problem. The seal looks good to me, but I will try to trim it down, and maybe try some seal string.

Personally I think a new mounting system is in order for s775.

lol I used an old neoprene mouse pad i had, cut it to fit and pulled off the cloth, glued 2 of them together for thickness and it works great, better than the vapo pads i had.

Yeah there's definitely a little air in it but unless you live somewhere with serious humidity you really shouldn't have a lot of moisture at all, and even then it shouldn't be dripping out if it's airtight.

trimming the seal so It's got a nice contact is a good idea, and making sure it's definitely contacting the entire surface too.

I'm working on a dual Xeon chilly mount, and the only way to get that to have a good seal is to build up the entire area around the 2 sockets with neoprene. I don't know if you're in a similar position, but that may be the only way around it.

If it could help, using a thinner ring for the large seal may be an option for ensuring clearance around the socket. Can be found at most good fridgy shops if you take the old one with you and ask for something that will fit the size, but is thinner.

Gray

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Originally Posted by Gray Mole

I'm working on a dual Xeon chilly mount,

Gray

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Boasting again Grey lol I use dialetic grease but then I'm not using 775 so??

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Originally Posted by Silverdoc

lol I used an old neoprene mouse pad i had, cut it to fit and pulled off the cloth, glued 2 of them together for thickness and it works great, better than the vapo pads i had.

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Hmmm...I've had bad experiences with those neoprene mouse pads. The ones I've tried end up freezing and become as stiff as cardboard :rolleyes:

@ Fishy: Chilly1's most recent mounting kits use 3/4" wall donuts as opposed to the older 1/2" wall ones. Although I'm not on the same platform as you, I had nothing but problems with his newer, thicker donuts. They either ran into components on the board or they would be difficult to get a good seal with. I ended up going to a HVAC store and picked up a length of 2 1/8" ID x 1/2" insulation so I could go back to the old donut thickness. After switching back, my probs with leaky sockets went away. Of course once I fixed that problem, another one followed right behind it :p: :

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1...ofrost15qq.jpg

I'm on S939, but I definitely had to do some modification to my donut to get a good seal.

I basically shaved the donut down about 1/8 inch at a time until I got the perfect mount. I also used 1 layer of the seal string around my socket, and I could tell once I had the perfect mount because once I removed the donut, some of it was ripped off stuck to the seal string and there was a perfect circle. I also started with problems with capacitor clearance, but I basically just "tucked in" the donut around the caps and PWM heatsinks, and now the donut has basically formed to that shape, so as long as I mount it back in soem reasonable time with the same orientation it works fine. Basically, if the insulation has a lot of "bulge" when you compress it down, then it is too tall. Of course, having a foot or 2 of the stuff around helps in case you cut too short on one.

Also, like Jin recommended, when I plan on removing the evap after use, I generally will do exactly what he said and sit in BIOS until it warms up before I turn it off.

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Hmmm...I've had bad experiences with those neoprene mouse pads. The ones I've tried end up freezing and become as stiff as cardboard :rolleyes:

@ Fishy: Chilly1's most recent mounting kits use 3/4" wall donuts as opposed to the older 1/2" wall ones. Although I'm not on the same platform as you, I had nothing but problems with his newer, thicker donuts. They either ran into components on the board or they would be difficult to get a good seal with. I ended up going to a HVAC store and picked up a length of 2 1/8" ID x 1/2" insulation so I could go back to the old donut thickness. After switching back, my probs with leaky sockets went away. Of course once I fixed that problem, another one followed right behind it :p: :

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ambient to about -50c evap is ok with just the doughnut about 3-4 inches from the center of the evap.

the colder you get the further away you have to insulate

in your case you need 1/2 the mobo covered =P or in a airtight chamber

btw NYC is pretty bad on humidity, I used seal string around the base, pressed in and heated a bit so it bonds well then the evap on top of that. So far so good but hasn't been really humid yet I run 4-5 hours a night usually. Airtight seal like wrzdal mentioned is very important as is the amount of insulation for the cold.

-100 or less spreads much further than -50, the problem is only compounded if you run a ihs that conducts more cold into the rest of the components

also i read that neoprene shouldn't be compressed (too much) so trimming it down can help

I'll pull it all apart tonight, see what I can do. I guess the idea then is to cut the donut down, and build up neoprene around the socket.

ttt

i agree, we need a good LGA775 solution for the Chilly1 evap. can anyone point me in the right direction for the correct materials to use (ie. closed-cell neoprene, etc.) I will start on a template right away....

-FCG

Very motherboard dependent. If you mean the capacitors, start coating them in nailpolish to form them into a single barrier.

well, i do have a spray can of conformal coating...that is probably a good first step but the key is going to be keeping the cold in. there needs to be a barrier between the LGA socket and the caps/inductor blocks immediately surrounding the socket. the vapoLS design is good but I need to know what materials to use to build this insulation set.

Here's what I'm doing...over the top, somewhat ;)

Step 1. Conformal coating/PCB lacquer around the socket area, two layers...one layer around the rest of the board, front and back.
Step 2. Liquid Electrical tape, one layer around the socket area (make a big puddle and help it spread before it dries, getting into all the nooks and crannies of the caps around the socket). Front and back.
Step 3. Medium thickness, low-density, closed-cell armaflex/neoprene around the entire socket area. Front and back
Step 4. Low thickness, high-density, open- or closed-cell cork tape around the socket area.
Step 5. Grease in the socket and the seal of the gasket foam.

First step keeps moderate condensation out, 2nd step keeps serious condensation out, 3rd step keeps the temp delta down (to reduce the production of condensation), 4th step only helps that and add structure, 5th step ensures airtightness :)

EDIT: if you also want to throw in some RTV silicone/seal string around the socket and gasket foam from the mouting, it couldn't hurt ;)

Mayb someone could re-create the LGA holddown in a plastic?

I'd worry about the ability to maintain a constant pressure on the chip at different temperatures without cracking. I think that maybe lots of really soft neoprene along with pcb laquer and LET could help but heh, I run dothan lol

I preform a very similar procedure as Vapor and the only trouble I ever had was my suction line forming condensation on the 1/2" insulation, had to bump to to 3/4" to keep the cold in.

Vapor have u got any picks of the method? Some ppl report that the dielectric grease spreads the cold, so may not be as good (?), albiet if condensation gets in ur protected

Dielectric grease can spread the cold, but nailpolish is a good coating for motherboard, followed by armaflex then donut is my preference.

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Originally Posted by gazzoom

Vapor have u got any picks of the method? Some ppl report that the dielectric grease spreads the cold, so may not be as good (?), albiet if condensation gets in ur protected

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I only use dielectric grease for creating an airtight seal with the donut and the on-board insulation, where cold is not an issue at all (since that's after the thermal insulation steps) and in the socket, where cold is good and water is bad (this just fills the space, nothing else really--optional step, IMO, but I've always done it for DICE, so why not this?).

As for materials, play around on McMaster some with the keywords I've listed above....I won't give away all the exact products (with budget constraints especially, I bought large quantities, so my products will be slightly different, but I bought about what I thought would be enough for a dozen boards and spent just over $100, but turns out I'll need more lacquer every 2-3 boards :(), because if I say X, people will go get X when there might actually be a Y out there that either costs less or is better suited for the job, so just buy what you think you will be able to work with, what fits your budget, and makes sense to you and if it works GREAT, come back and let us know :)

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Originally Posted by Vapor

I only use dielectric grease for creating an airtight seal with the gasket foam (the foam ring between the mounting plate and the insulation on the board), where cold is not an issue at all (since that's after the thermal insulation steps) and in the socket, where cold is good and water is bad (this just fills the space, nothing else really--optional step, IMO, but I've always done it for DICE, so why not this?).

As for materials, play around on McMaster some with the keywords I've listed above....I won't give away all the exact products (with budget constraints especially, I bought large quantities, so my products will be slightly different, but I bought about what I thought would be enough for a dozen boards and spent just over $100, but turns out I'll need more lacquer every 2-3 boards :(), because if I say X, people will go get X when there might actually be a Y out there that either costs less or is better suited for the job, so just buy what you think you will be able to work with, what fits your budget, and makes sense to you and if it works GREAT, come back and let us know :)

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I did enclose some mastic tape on your unit. For LGA 775 i find it to be working better than neoprene thanks to close caps. I stack it to height of cap and use donut. (and cut donut to precise size you need).
Lemme know how it works out :)

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Originally Posted by jinu117

I did enclose some mastic tape on your unit. For LGA 775 i find it to be working better than neoprene thanks to close caps. I stack it to height of cap and use donut. (and cut donut to precise size you need).
Lemme know how it works out :)

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Sweet, I'll definitely let everyone know then...I'm still keeping my lacquer and liquid electrical tape though :p:

How soft is mastic tape? How much does it thermally insulate? I think it might be really useful for replacing the cork tape layer (admittedly, most cork tape is open-cell and not great for electrical insulation...the steps I listed above use it to assist in thermally insulating the closed-cell insulation) and for even a sub-layer below neoprene/armaflex.

Heck, if it's got the right softness (Goldilocks softness :)), I can even see it being a total solution for even the over-the-top insulators like myself....can't say I've ever heard of it though (hence the ambiguity and the questions :p: ), had to google it :)

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Sweet, I'll definitely let everyone know then...I'm still keeping my lacquer and liquid electrical tape though :p:

How soft is mastic tape? How much does it thermally insulate? I think it might be really useful for replacing the cork tape layer (admittedly, most cork tape is open-cell and not great for electrical insulation...the steps I listed above use it to assist in thermally insulating the closed-cell insulation) and for even a sub-layer below neoprene/armaflex.

Heck, if it's got the right softness (Goldilocks softness :)), I can even see it being a total solution for even the over-the-top insulators like myself....can't say I've ever heard of it though (hence the ambiguity and the questions :p: ), had to google it :)

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Same stuff as sealstring :)

Alright, verdict's in...this mastic tape is nothing short of great for LGA775 :up:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Alright, verdict's in...this mastic tape is nothing short of great for LGA775 :up:

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link us a place for purchase and directions for best installation :up:

IDK where to get it, Jin sent it to me with my unit. :shrug:

As for installation, cut out a strip, lay it on the board where you want it and keep cut-forming until it'll fit SNUGLY, then remove the backing, exposing the adhesive and place into where you just fit it. I did two layers all the way around the socket (making four at each corner). I also put down a miscellaneous strip on one corner for seemingly no reason....w/e. I'll post pics later (already taken them, just no computer to upload with).

You can find stuff that is almost the same as what comes with the mach1 at an autoparts store.

Its made by 3M and called strip caulk.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...dowsealant.php

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Here's what I'm doing...over the top, somewhat ;)

Step 1. Conformal coating/PCB lacquer around the socket area, two layers...one layer around the rest of the board, front and back.
Step 2. Liquid Electrical tape, one layer around the socket area (make a big puddle and help it spread before it dries, getting into all the nooks and crannies of the caps around the socket). Front and back.
Step 3. Medium thickness, low-density, closed-cell armaflex/neoprene around the entire socket area. Front and back
Step 4. Low thickness, high-density, open- or closed-cell cork tape around the socket area.
Step 5. Grease in the socket and the seal of the gasket foam.

First step keeps moderate condensation out, 2nd step keeps serious condensation out, 3rd step keeps the temp delta down (to reduce the production of condensation), 4th step only helps that and add structure, 5th step ensures airtightness :)

EDIT: if you also want to throw in some RTV silicone/seal string around the socket and gasket foam from the mouting, it couldn't hurt ;)

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Cannot wait to see your pics of this. Quite an effort which should with any hope give you plenty of peace of mind. Over $100's worth and enough for several setups you say? Might need to come over to CT and hook myself up. :p:

Till then, an FYI for anyone looking for a quick and dirty, and more temporary solution, simply covering everything in vaseline works surprisingly well too. Been running strong for 5 days so far.