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Folks,
I've tried 2 diferent 920D cpu's with 3 diferent WC blocks (Cuplex XT, Storm and Apogee) and they all have the same problem : the IHS is not flat in the center !!
This is a problem because the contact between IHS and WC block is not made correctly in the middle of the cpu IHS!
Anyone has/had this problem ?!
Same here, on mine only the edges make contact and there is a huge air gap everywhere else. The only solution I see is to lap it or settle for a very thick arctic silver layer which is not good. The stock air cooler has a round bottom and is only making decent contact at four points, not anywhere near optimal.
At least your waterblocks are making good contact around the entire edge.
follow this how-to that I wrote if you don't mind voiding your processor's warranty
http://www.overclock.net/faqs/15897-...-p4s-a64s.html
:banana:
edit: but BTW, make sure you are mounting the block as hard as it will let you, and possibly get harder springs, or just hard mount the block without springs at all - the IHS is made to flex and will make better contact with a hard mounting - and don't worry, you won't hurt the core under it at all by mounting it with alot of pressure
christ, thats terrible. Id tell intel that their IHS is crappy, and im gonna lap it, and if something should happen in the future, my warrenty SHOULD still be good. After all, lapping the IHS for much better contact and thusly temps, would be a lot better than not lapping it, having crappy contact and temps, and maybe the proc being damaged from heat. Try telling them that.
My solution is to apply a bit more ceramique and more pressure to the waterblock. ;)
But is this a production bug of the IHS or is it made by purpose ?
My P4 640 didn't had this problem !
Sneaky, are you saying that the IHS should bent to flattness with preassure ?
And I've read your lapping guide. I've done lapping to my Cuplex XT and it looks great (see here).
I've got 2 question for you : when lapping the IHS you didn't used water on the sandpaper wrigth ?! and the IHS are copper made ??
Now I'm with the AquaComputer Cuplex XT s775, and I'm afraid of putting too mutch preassure on it not because of the CPU but because of the waterblock it self. I'm afraid of bendding the suport's of the waterblock :(
are these cpu's retails or oem ?
if you look at the retail heatsink on the 9 series cpu some of them have smaller copper base than others and the smaller ones are smaller than the heatspreader so when the heatsink is pushing down it does not touch the 4 corners and they become raised. i have noticed on a lot of the 8 series dual cores i built in the last few months a circle pattern and the corners looking raised and high temps on non intel coolers like akasa evo 120.
This is what mine looks like, notice how bowled out it is:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...l/DSC00044.jpg
They are retail boxed cpu's.
Don't understand WTF is Intel thinking by doing this ! :slapass:
Sentential, that's it ! :cussing:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=85992&page=10
Check out post #243. I better my temps by almost 10c by lapping the IHS. Yes, the edges on these procs are raised a little bit which prevents full contact with a heatsink. I hope they fix this with new procs.
nicepun, did you used wet sandpapper ? Or did you lapped using dry sandpapper ?
Dry Sandpaper. It was hard work (a couple of hours) but I was happy with results.Quote:
Originally Posted by jVIDIA
Do you guys know if lapping the IHS will void the warranty of the CPU ?
Yes, specilly in Portugal where they try to find any possible excuse to void your warranty. I know because I lived there for three years. :D So unless you are planning to keep it for a while, or sell it to some one you know will buy it. I wouldn't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jVIDIA
I'm totally for lapping... and If I'm overclocking I'm not thinking of warranty...
I do OC and I do care about warranty ;)
most intel IHS's have that issue, have seen though the 6x1 series have a revised IHS which don't have this problem!
This is insane :(
just lapped a 805d and his IHS seemed much better than my old s478 P4's, 630, 640 and 920!
my original 3.2ghz 775 (i foget, thats a 530 i think or was it 550 ?) was like that too it was impossible to cool even on water.
the center of the heat spreader had a massive depression so that the heatsink only sat on the corners.
i took my drivers license and laid it across the heat spreader with the thin edge and took pictures,, sent them off to intel and never heard a friggin word.. i was VERY pissed off. there was an OBVIOUS massive gap at the center of the IHS, very depressing.. haha pun intended!
all the amd64 chips i been thru.... never ever had one do that.
540...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Same problems here, Im still able to keep the temps bellow spec but my 830 had better load temps than this pig. I will be lapping this CPU as well here soon.
on my 920D i saw about 6-7oC difference at full load! substantial differnence using watercooling...
Sent, is that a XP-90c ? I have one and am getting a 930D soon, but I didnt know they worked with LGA775. I guess they do ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
xp90c is all copper... :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by wa77ss
looks like an xp-120 to me, also there is an lga bracket for the range iirc
LGA 775 mounting kit for the XP-90: $4.99Quote:
Originally Posted by wa77ss
http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright...t-pr-2570.html
Getting one myself..
(no I don't work for that company)
I'm thinking of a quick and dirty way to fix mine.
I think I will put the chip under an endmill on and shave the edges of the IHS right off. 1mm depth is all that is needed then the complete center will make contact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gone_fishin
it would be much easier, and especially safer to just lap your IHS by hand... not to mention that this will give you a surefire flat surface and make it smoother at the same time - this will get you the best temps possible
just my .02 on the matter
-JR
OK I lapped it. It was fast and easy enough. Started out with 150grit went up to 1000. Took the edges off quickly then the higher grits smoothed it all out. 50% of the neckel plating was even left in the center.
I used Acrtic Silver5 and the initial temps after putting back together are 3C idle better and 5C load better. It may improve as the pea sized nugget of goop spreads out better over time with the heat and presure.
pea sized? it should be about half that size...
you should lap it all the way down until the entire processor is bare copper if you truly want to take advantage of lapping your IHS
figure of speach on the pea sized, small round glob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
Flat is all I was looking for and flat I now have. This AS5 is real sticky stuff, can't spread it like the old AS3 so the glob method seems better.
With lapping I went from 50C idle stock vcore at 3.73Ghz to 47C idle. I then directed an 80mm fan up against the northbridge sink and got further down to 42C idle, 56C @ 50% load. Lots of heat there with the northbridge and heat coming off of the backside of the vid card so with the lapping and the extra fan it made a nice improvement. Still using the stock intel HSF.
I am thinking of hooking my waterblock up to it for a while next.
edited aboove load temp to show it was at 50% load.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...eresttemps.jpg
gone_fishin, what cpu have you and are you WC ?
I have a D920 and it is on stock Intel heatsink fan with Arctic Silver 5. I lapped the IHS flat (it had raised edges and a sagged middle).Quote:
Originally Posted by jVIDIA
Edit:, I must say that my reported load temp above was only at 50% load, full 100% load is 61C. I am using cpu burn-in and forgot to run two instances of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jVIDIA
same here 2...
i always had problems with my temps... especially while running dual-prime or rosetta.
after is lapped the ihs tempr droped by around 12°C (load).
with my new sonictower+as5+lapped ihs i got around 52°C dualprime (4.5ghz 1.43v)....
raiden
Just got an Intel 805, IHS on that was POS too, stock temps were bout 60 degrees full load on high end water (120.3 rad, Aqua Extreme MP-05 Pro LE, DD D5) after a quick lapping job shown below full load temps are now about 45.
*sigh* i don't mean to yell at you, but if you're going to lap your IHS in the first place, atleast do it right - lap it all the way down so that the IHS is 100% bare copper, and 100% flat
example with my old 3.0E prescott:
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=39295
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=39296
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=39297
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=42178
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/4391/msmiley18xh.gif
with what grid paper you finished it off Sneaky?
also, is that a manual job or you used any professional lapping tools?
thats a hand lap job up to 2500 grit then finished off on a sheet of printer paper
i've seen three other people pull off a finish that nice in addition to me: Cathar, nikhsub1, and Joe Camel
takes a hell of alot of practice to get it done that well, and alot of spare time, and a hand that won't cramp up on you for about 3 hours or so
edit: here's the mating finish to the CPU on my XP-120 when i still had it
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=40584
edit2: and my Storm G5's baseplate
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=45076
Fair enough Sneaky, its the 1st time I'd attempted anything like it. Hence I was half expecting to break the CPU so I took just enough off to level it out (roughly) cos it was in a terrible state. Will have to try and ge tcloser to your results sometime, altrhough right now I'm happy with a 15-18 degree drop in temps.
with that water setup you have, you can easily drop it to low 40's load by lapping the CPU fully
im all embarrassed ... thanks for the :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
just a few recent lap jobs....(held up to the monitor)
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/853...04801cu.th.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1...04787nn.th.jpg
some "OLD" stuff:
TR XP-90
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/619...00880lp.th.jpg
some AMD IHS....
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4...02474iq.th.jpg
the first convex HS ive ever run into (TR Big Typhoon)
(Yonah footprint)
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/194...05067zp.th.jpg
sheet of printer paper?... what kind of technique is that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
just lap it on a sheet of paper you mean?
btw, do you use a few water drops during the lapping procedure on the working area of the paper?
Top jobs both of ya http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4986/worship2lq.gif
i used a peice of printer paper as the sandpaper to finish the surface with - equivilant to maybe a 10,000 grit paper or so
but i do dry lapping myself (works best with the type of paper that i use)
It may not be as good as yours Sneaky but I did try to do my best. In order to verify if the surface was in fact flat, a put a couple of drops of water then placed a glass from a picture frame on top of the processor to see how the water would spread. Just something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/7...ture3587vn.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9...ture3594yl.jpg
where are you guys finding the high grit sand paper? home depots around me only carry up to 1000 grit, if im lucky.
and my temps on stock 930 ihs are only 38c full load at 4.0ghz?
my brother gets temps of 44c idle and 52c load on big typhoon
local hardware store stocks 2500grid ones.
the temp difference could be by an uncalibrated and inaccurate temp sensor.
Sneaky, great lap-job dude. I mean just look at the reflection of that grid pattern.:woot:
Good job thinking of the printer paper, I thought I was the only one who was thinking it was a good idea.
Great info on this thread about 9xx series thanks to all:toast:
________
ZX14 VS HAYABUSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
i have a DMM with temp probe on it :)
DMM = what?
if you have a temp probe touching the IHS side then you won't get an accurate cpu die reading.
digital multi meter. and its not between the ihs and waterblock :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
thanks.
i didn't said it was in between, but on the side ;)
where is the probe located then?
you can put it wherever you want. i touch many different spots and they all get the same readings. ive had the same temps on 4 different asus boards, so im not worried. my temps are fine and accurate. infared heat gun FTW! (i borrowed it from my dads work)Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
nicepun, very nice lapping job you did on your IHS, definite props from me on the finish :)
-JR
Sneaky, one more question, did you use ordinary emery paper to do your lapping jobs? your preskott seems very VERY shinny and flat. You used any sort of polishing? I have also noticed in one of your pics (the one with the cam shot) that the surface has 0 "scratches" from the lapping procedure!!! how did you manage to do that?
i'm really impressed!
there's a few very fine scratch marks on the top, just most of the pics you can't see them because of the lighting
i use silicon carbide paper 220 > 400 > 600 > 800 > 1000 > 1200 > 1500 > 2000 > 2500 > printer paper (~15,000) > bare glass sheet w/ 50,000grit equivilant micro gel polish
Thanks for sharing the info :up:
silicone carbide and smooth glass surface must be the trick for zero scartch marks then :toast:
cause i'm using classic emery papers and the 1500/2500 grid ones leave loads of tiny scratches even if they give a mirror surface finish (if you look the surface from the side though it looks like a true mirror finish without scratches! :confused: ). The glass i'm working on is not as fine as yours so wanted to compare the differences these two things would make on the final result.
The 930 I just bought the other day has a concaved heatspreader on it too.
What a pain in the ass!
Temps with stock heatsink @ stock was 44 idle, and 62 load.
So I put the BigTyphoon that I bought on it. Temps were 43-44 idle, and 64 load! WTF. So I tried putting the BigTyphoon on several different ways, and nothing helped.
Looking at the BigTyphoon I discovered the base was concaved. So I lapped it. Put it back on and temps didn`t change much.
Took the heatsink off again and saw the artic silver was all at the edges, and when I wiped it off, there were grooves from the 4 sides of the CPU carved into my fresh lapped heatsink!
So basically I just voided the hell out of my warrenty and lapped the CPU as well.
results: 35c idle and 50c load @ 4.0 ghz.....:banana: :woot:
IMO worth it
heres some pics:
BigTyphoon during lapping
http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/9...forelap8lz.jpg
BigTyphoon after coming off an un-lapped 930
http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/2...thpaste6ac.jpg
Grooves in BigTyphoon
http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/5...grooves0ka.jpg