skipping AM2

hello, I built the system in my sig about a year ago and now that a new socket is being introduced, I thought I should start thinking about my upgrade plans.

So the system I have is the same as in my sig below\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
except that I have upgraded my moniter to a 17in LCD, my ram is now running on 3.1V ( Burned it in, y aknow :D :D ), I I have obviously updated my drivers...

I know AM2 is going to be relesed shortly but after considering several things, i though I could skip that socket altogehter.

here is my plan:
Buy a 3800 X2 and OC it

and buy this set of ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227066

and upgrade my video card after those two upgrades....


do you guys think that with that system, I could effectively skip AM2? The reason i want to skip is that so far it seems that it will offer little benefits. I do however know tat AMD could pull a huge stunt and it can turn out that AM2 CPUs pwn conroe but........


what do you guys think?

no matter what nn_step will preach about amd having some master plan that will leave intel stunned, the most am2 will have going for it is if using chartered amd is able to bring 65nm chips earlier than around christmas time. k8l will be the next major release from amd, and then is where you could expect some performance increases, so yes you could feel safe buying the x2 3800 if nothing exciting leaks out about am2 in the next few weeks.

M2 will be spectacular.. AM2 is a different matter...
Do as you see fit as a customer.

AM2 will rock.... I know it...

no, you are completely wrong, m2 will rock, even if it was already announced that amd isnt calling anything that since it was someone else's intellectual property. wait, there it is, amd stole the name from itself :rolleyes: . again, what nnstep is actually talking about is k8l, and that is coming out in the beginning of 07.

This is exactly what I'm doing, skipping AM2 and wait for much performance increase VS my current rig. (just hope my opty @ 3ghz will be able to run Minesweeper in 6 months.....) :p:

AMD is going to be doing more than a dye shrink with 65nm..

~Mike

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Originally Posted by arisythila

AMD is going to be doing more than a dye shrink with 65nm..

~Mike

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I hope so

I know I would not dream of building anything without nn_step's blessing.... :D :D OMG!

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Originally Posted by Pinnacle

I hope so

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I dont hope, I know.... AMD is suppose to shrink to 65nm, and its suppose to come with a bunch of optimizations. Its gonna be CRAZY!

~Mike

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Originally Posted by pcdoc1

I know I would not dream of building anything without nn_step's blessing.... :D :D OMG!

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you know that was too good to pass up :D

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Originally Posted by nn_step

you know that was too good to pass up :D

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Yeah it was.....

:p:

As for OP...I think your upgrade path will suit you well, and should allow you to be quite content until the next big thing falls into our lap..Conroe/M2/K8L/whatever.

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Originally Posted by Charloz24

just hope my opty @ 3ghz will be able to run Minesweeper in 6 months..... :p:

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i dont know that will really stress the cpu to its max you better have a massive cooling going on ta handel that all that load.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Slinky

i dont know that will really stress the cpu to its max you better have a massive cooling going on ta handel that all that load.

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well with vista it is going to be next to impossible.. we might have to add some Phase and up it to 3.2Ghz with 4GB of Ram

That should be fine and then just wait till skt F if you wanna upgrade and not go the am2 route.

Assuming M2 and AM2 will actually be different sockets that means when/if K8L will be out before the end of 4Q07, 940pin AM2's lifespan would be just a bit more than a year. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to release a socket that's supposed to be around only for a time that short. :stick:
But if M2 and AM2 procs are compatible, there's really no reason at all to "skip AM2". :confused: Although, there are other things that point M2 won't be compatible with AM2:

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Socket M2 is going to be initially released as 940-pin, DDR2. In ~6months time, M2 will make the switch to 1207-pins.

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LGA1207 is needed only for making quadcores possible.

In a PDF from Phil Hester's (AMD Chief technology officer) presentation at AMD Analyst day there's only one mention about quadcores: they will be out with the "new core" (K8L). So, there will be no quadcore rev-F procs. This means if "AM2 will go LGA" "in ~6months time" K8L would actually be out very early 1Q07!
:eek:

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Originally Posted by nn_step

M2 will be spectacular.. AM2 is a different matter...
Do as you see fit as a customer.

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When do you recon M2 will be available in stores?

I thought M2 was the name for AM2 earlier, but due to copyright laws AMD had to add the A :stick:

another diffrence is that the memory controlers will have been redesigned from scrathc, so shouldent have any cold bug problems, and on a 65nm processing, we are gonna see some 4.5ghz single core screnies and some 4ghz dual core shots, on dice, possibaly even phase, with out any cold bug to worrie about.

I believe M2 and AM2 are the same.... if you "skip" M2 you skip AM2. I personally wont go to AM2 until 65nm comes out.. Or maybe I will wait a bit.. I dont know depends on how prices are. I think a AM2 with the FX-62 + DDR2-1000 would be pretty sweet.. Thats just me tho.

~Mike

still on my mobile barton, just got an x800gto 256mb AGP(12pp, 256bit gddr3), was able to unlock the 4 pipes to give me 16pp, and waiting on my AC Silencer AT-5 rev2 to oc it and make it an x850xt pe, for a total of $198US :D

just tested some g.skill 2gbzx(thanx ben) and about to buy my own pair, and tweaked my water, all so i can play quake 4 on high, nice and smooth, and so i can skip 754/940/939 and as long as my dfi LP NF2 ultra-b holds out, hopefully skip m2/am2(i'm guessing there's a difference)

my hope is to make it to coldbug-free, low latency ddr2(or even 3), 65nm, and less than $400 gig vid cards, and most of all, better competition for better prices between intel/amd

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Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

still on my mobile barton, just got an x800gto 256mb AGP(12pp, 256bit gddr3), was able to unlock the 4 pipes to give me 16pp, and waiting on my AC Silencer AT-5 rev2 to oc it and make it an x850xt pe, for a total of $198US :D

just tested some g.skill 2gbzx(thanx ben) and about to buy my own pair, and tweaked my water, all so i can play quake 4 on high, nice and smooth, and so i can skip 754/940/939 and as long as my dfi LP NF2 ultra-b holds out, hopefully skip m2/am2(i'm guessing there's a difference)

my hope is to make it to coldbug-free, low latency ddr2(or even 3), 65nm, and less than $400 gig vid cards, and most of all, better competition for better prices between intel/amd

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This man is XTREME. I couldnt wait to get away from Socket A.

~Mike

I am tired of amd coldbugs, they seriously have to change something about that.

just bought myself a nice deal on a second hand opty 144 and a neo 2 off a mate, this will upgrade me from s754 3000+ and i wont be upgrading again until conroe/AM2 has been fully rolled out and i can see where the land lays

i would also look to skip AM2 especially looking at the latest 2.4ghz conroe thread

I went ahead and got 939 because I figured really AM2 was gonna be more expensive. That was just me, and its plenty fast :)

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Originally Posted by nn_step

well with vista it is going to be next to impossible.. we might have to add some Phase and up it to 3.2Ghz with 4GB of Ram

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for vista, 2 gigs is recomended, and if i rememeber correctly, xp recomends 256mb. so lets say most xtreme members use 2 gigs, thats 8 times as much as xp recomends. 2*8 = 16 gigs...... i know its an exadgeration(sp) but id say the average for us will be 4gigs+

If AM2 brings some stronger processors to the table, I'll bite, as DDR2 has some promising offers. However, if all they do is as DDR2 support, count me out, as my 3GHz 165 + 2GB of DDR500 -5Bf will do me fine.

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Originally Posted by kiwi

I am tired of amd coldbugs, they seriously have to change something about that.

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What planet are you from? You're taking a product and running it at a certain degree outside of its minimal operating temperature. The product works fine...you however are going xtreme...you get what you pay for.

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Originally Posted by mnewxcv

for vista, 2 gigs is recomended, and if i rememeber correctly, xp recomends 256mb. so lets say most xtreme members use 2 gigs, thats 8 times as much as xp recomends. 2*8 = 16 gigs...... i know its an exadgeration(sp) but id say the average for us will be 4gigs+

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Fortunately M2 will expand the limitation of 4Gb per board to a far more Vista acceptable number.

I still say go 939 and then wait untill AMD has AM2 go 65nm or just wait till socket F ;)

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Originally Posted by arisythila

This man is XTREME. I couldnt wait to get away from Socket A.

~Mike

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haha, i loved my barton 3000+. what other CPU can run almost 70C in a hot a$$ room with a desktop fan blowing on it, lol.

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Originally Posted by Nicksterr

What planet are you from? You're taking a product and running it at a certain degree outside of its minimal operating temperature. The product works fine...you however are going xtreme...you get what you pay for.

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Dont think he is Bashing AMD so just relax. Quite offencive you are!! :nono:

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Originally Posted by Nicksterr

What planet are you from? You're taking a product and running it at a certain degree outside of its minimal operating temperature. The product works fine...you however are going xtreme...you get what you pay for.

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No thats his point, he wont get what he'd paid for, he's got better cooling then a little alu heatsink, cooling that costs more then CPU itself, its quite uncool not being able to use it..

It wasnt even offending towards AMD... He could have mentioned the fact that the performance increase from s939 is minimal, and conroe will be way faster, but he didnt...

And 110nm -> -120 deg no problemo on FX55, 90nm on DICE isnt even possible with most FX57... (and the 3700+ bugs at +5), now imagine if the gap is the same with 90nm->65nm, will we see coldbug that hits temps so you cant even use watercooling on CPU? :slapass:

I completely agree on the coldbug issue, AMD are going to have to find a way to combat it to tempt me back after Conroe.

Of the five cpus I've had in the last eight months two of them have been cold bugged, one severely. The others weren't bugged because I hunted them down due their specific steppings which were known performers at sub zero. It's getting hard work chasing chips that will handle the cold.

Set upp a little poll AM2 VS Intel Conroe and its new brothers. And set the Question to Which will you most likely buy from what you have seen.
This might not be a very fair poll but its just for fun :)

If a poll is set up, be sure to include a 'Not Upgrading' or 'Sticking with 939' or what not for the users who are not going AM2 or upgrading to Conroe

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Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

still on my mobile barton, just got an x800gto 256mb AGP(12pp, 256bit gddr3), was able to unlock the 4 pipes to give me 16pp, and waiting on my AC Silencer AT-5 rev2 to oc it and make it an x850xt pe, for a total of $198US :D

just tested some g.skill 2gbzx(thanx ben) and about to buy my own pair, and tweaked my water, all so i can play quake 4 on high, nice and smooth, and so i can skip 754/940/939 and as long as my dfi LP NF2 ultra-b holds out, hopefully skip m2/am2(i'm guessing there's a difference)

my hope is to make it to coldbug-free, low latency ddr2(or even 3), 65nm, and less than $400 gig vid cards, and most of all, better competition for better prices between intel/amd

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A shame my infinity crapped out almost every week, else I would be still on a mobile K7. Respect! :)

w/ 2 3Ghz + 1 2.7Ghz+ Opty 170s, don't need more for awhile, so I will step back and watch to see where the winds of change take everyone for awhile.... :D

OMG, if nn_step says it, it must be true!!!!

Back to reality...

AM2 in its current form gives little to no reason to upgrade from 939. Even Conroe, if it is the 15% boost over 939 we expect isn't anything to get excited about. 1H '07 is when the fun really begins as we start to see K8L from AMD (Socket M3 possibly?) and an updated nand featured chipset from Intel with revised southbridge (and possibly some tweaks to the Conroe core). Really, the only thing to consider between now and then is maybe a GPU upgrade but given that they'll be first gen DX10 stuff, waiting is probably the good call.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

M2 will be spectacular.. AM2 is a different matter...
Do as you see fit as a customer.

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I'm confused and so are most of us I think from this statement.

Are you saying there will be a Socket M2 after AM2...Next year?
I don't think that's the case because AM2 and M2 are the same socket (copyright and naming issues). If that's true then why do you say M2 will be spectacular and AM2 won't be when they're the same thing.

Also, How is a socket ever Spectacular....it's what goes in the socket thats spectacular and so far what's going in AM2 is anything but "spectacular"...

I'd just like some clarification and I've become confused. If it was sarcasm than i totally missed it lol :p:

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Originally Posted by kiwi

I am tired of amd coldbugs, they seriously have to change something about that.

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Totally

I am pissed when coldbug is so bad that CPUs get further on stock heatsink than on phase change... (CAB2E 148). And how about a CCB1E 165 i tried, +25c and 333 HTT still locked up. The coldbug is absolutely MONSTROUS and the new bugged dual core Opties are too bugged even for chilled water. Hell when people are using cold AIR and things bug, you know its bad. Not all of us have phase, but when you pay hundreds of dollars for a phase unit, you goddamn want to use it.

Putting my single stage to good use is just another reason for me to skip AM2. 5$ say AM2 coldbugs just as bad as before.

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Originally Posted by Absolute_0

Totally

I am pissed when coldbug is so bad that CPUs get further on stock heatsink than on phase change... (CAB2E 148). And how about a CCB1E 165 i tried, +25c and 333 HTT still locked up. The coldbug is absolutely MONSTROUS and the new bugged dual core Opties are too bugged even for chilled water. Hell when people are using cold AIR and things bug, you know its bad. Not all of us have phase, but when you pay hundreds of dollars for a phase unit, you goddamn want to use it.

Putting my single stage to good use is just another reason for me to skip AM2. 5$ say AM2 coldbugs just as bad as before.

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I thought the coldbug was due to the implemented Memory controller. The AM2 still has the memory controller so most likely the cold bug issue.
AMD has 0 obligation to fix the cold bug because the CPU is being used outsides it's operating environment and thus they don't need to fix something that it never intended to do (spend money to redo everything to please the less than 1% of users who run phase)... don't see AMD taking this step.

If you want phase, I say go core duo but that sucks too because of the current board's Fsb limits.....

considering 3-3-3-x latancy is as low as you'll be able to go on the platform at release, I'm thinking I'm gonna skip this round also. If there's any truth in AM3 being released a year after AM2 (kinda like 754) then I'm definately skipping AM2.

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Originally Posted by n91htmare

I
AMD has 0 obligation to fix the cold bug because the CPU is being used outsides it's operating environment and thus they don't need to fix something that it never intended to do (spend money to redo everything to please the less than 1% of users who run phase)... don't see AMD taking this step.

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Hmm, well, someone might know better, but looking through the specs from the AMD site, I couldn't see a lower temp limit specified for any chip. Abs 0 has a good point when chips cold bug at +12 or more, no, I don't think that's really acceptable either.

All one can do is go for known performers like CDBHE or LDBHE; it's kind of limiting though. I'd like to have had an Opty 165 or 170 but I'm not going near them. Hell, I'd have bought an FX-60 but for the coldbug.

I think I'll stick with what I have for a good long while, so long as they keep working.

I was thinking of going to am2 too but am not planning on doing it immediately as am afraid that they might pull a a64 754 from socket a. have an intermediate socket w/ some improvements and then release a new socket shortly after.

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Originally Posted by HousERaT

considering 3-3-3-x latancy is as low as you'll be able to go on the platform at release, I'm thinking I'm gonna skip this round also. If there's any truth in AM3 being released a year after AM2 (kinda like 754) then I'm definately skipping AM2.

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I cuncur :cool:

Somebody give arisythila and nn_step a room please!;)

Why do people in forums for hardware even by x2 3800+ @ $300 when an opteron 165 has twice the cache and can hit much higher clocks at the same price? Is there a reason or do they just not know it?

Some of it's because the LDBHE stepping is only on the 512kb cache dual core chips, and that stepping is one of the best at handling sub-zero temps.

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Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Somebody give arisythila and nn_step a room please!;)

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And some lube

LOL j/k:D

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Originally Posted by Pinnacle

And some lube

LOL j/k:D

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:slap: I ain't gay dude.. :slapass:

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Originally Posted by nn_step

:slap: I ain't gay dude.. :slapass:

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Im just kiddding, relax.

You know me;)

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Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Im just kiddding, relax.

You know me;)

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:rolleyes: yeah and I know you are the one into that sh1t :p:

i think im gonna jump on this am2... my p4 2.4a isnt cut for another year or wait.

I'm skipping AMD until 65nm appears. Its a logical step. 90nm AM2 is going to suck balls. Conroe is my next toy and gives me an opportunity to play with DDR2 for a bit. Theres a lot of us moving to Intelia this round. Besides, AMD needs to start lowering their prices. I wouldn't mind 4 Ooty 170s for $275 a piece...Like what was said above, AMD is not gng to correct the cold bug. In their mind, it doesn't exist. 1% is using sub zero cooling. AMD isn't going to show you any love in that dept.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

:rolleyes: yeah and I know you are the one into that sh1t :p:

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Why you get so off topic? You nutcase :slap:

Now lets get back ontrack

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Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Why you get so off topic? You nutcase :slap:

Now lets get back ontrack

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I think this thread got off track almost 2 months ago :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by stone_cold_Jimi

Hmm, well, someone might know better, but looking through the specs from the AMD site, I couldn't see a lower temp limit specified for any chip. Abs 0 has a good point when chips cold bug at +12 or more, no, I don't think that's really acceptable either.

All one can do is go for known performers like CDBHE or LDBHE; it's kind of limiting though. I'd like to have had an Opty 165 or 170 but I'm not going near them. Hell, I'd have bought an FX-60 but for the coldbug.

I think I'll stick with what I have for a good long while, so long as they keep working.

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I'm not familiar with phase much but...when the chip is at +12.. it won't boot as stock speeds? or is it when it's over clocked

As far as I know AMD is only responsible for the cpu to run at it's rated speed.

maybe I'm wrong.

AM2 = M2. AMD renamed M2 to AM2 due to some trademark/marketing issues.

AM3 would likely to be introduced for Greyhound (quad core, K8L?) in 1H'08. That's a long way off.

Socket F is worthless for power PC users since it will probably not have any nifty gamer features (no SLi or XF). And no, running a server CPU on a gaming mobo doesnt make you faster.

Socket S looks liks :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: as Yonah/Merom are first to market, more power efficient, and has plenty of desktop support. Socket S was delayed for some reason that god knows.

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Originally Posted by Haltech

I'm skipping AMD until 65nm appears. Its a logical step. 90nm AM2 is going to suck balls. Conroe is my next toy and gives me an opportunity to play with DDR2 for a bit. Theres a lot of us moving to Intelia this round. Besides, AMD needs to start lowering their prices. I wouldn't mind 4 Ooty 170s for $275 a piece...Like what was said above, AMD is not gng to correct the cold bug. In their mind, it doesn't exist. 1% is using sub zero cooling. AMD isn't going to show you any love in that dept.

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Actually, i think i might get conroe as well. When does conroe come out? I'll probably wait for a comparison of benchies between am2 and conroe.

If they're trying to make us switch boards, ram, and buy a cpu, why don't I just go Conroe? That's what I'm going to do. Be nice to play with something new but I bought like 5 or 6 AMD chips this year, I'll wait and make that something new Conroe. I have 2 x1900XTs to take care of. I'm off to intelville. AMD might have some good AM2 cpus down the pike, but I'll let them sort that out. They will be a good hunk behind when Conroe launches and an overhaul ala K8L would be needed. Not coming soon. I've got an Opty 170 and some others. I'll be alright. All about the gpus anyways, so I'll wait for a healthy boost.

Im staying 939...
I have a asrock that can convert to 940 with a riser card if need be, so if they look good ill just upgrade that setup a bit and rock on...

Its a different configuration of 940 pins than the opterons... You wont be able to drop that AM2 into it.

Haltech,
Many Asrock boards feature a "Future CPU Port" connector in which one could plug a riser card AM2-adapter and use a rev-F proc.

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Originally Posted by vitaminc

AM3 would likely to be introduced for Greyhound (quad core, K8L?) in 1H'08. That's a long way off.

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I reckon it won't be anywhere near 2008 when K8L comes.

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Socket F is worthless for power PC users since it will probably not have any nifty gamer features (no SLi or XF). And no, running a server CPU on a gaming mobo doesnt make you faster.

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Socket-F is only a socket. ;)
Platform features depend on the used chipset etc...