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http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=574791
So that's what's after AM2...and probably the "information" anand and everyone else has been stating will be revealed/discussed about the future of AMD's roadmaps on or after the release of AM2 on 6/6/6 at Cebit.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKEPC
Looks like AM2 will be another socket 754. Perhaps AM3 will be the next 939?
I really hope so...AMD is going to get creamed when Conroe (and worse yet Kentsville) arrives on the marketQuote:
Originally Posted by turtle
And yet no one listen when I said AM2 isn't a big deal...:rolleyes:
M2 on the other hand... Intel better start bending over now...
Well, they need to do something and quick because come Q3, AMD's gonna be getting pounded in the desktop market.
Nice try. It's called AM3. So your mythical M2 never showed up <shock> :yawn2:Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
Just wait... You'll understand ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81
if theres no performance difference between 939 and am2, I don't see why anyone will now bother with am2 at all - not only doesn't it offer performance improvements its also got only a limited shelf life. Be better if they skipped am2 and went straight to am3 - although its far too late for that now.
Remember how AMD said Socket F was the only "soon-to-be released" socket that will support quad core?
Perhaps we'll see a AM3 launch around the time we see desktop quad cores.
That would make AM2 transitional, kind of like 754...and with a short life-span with only DDR2. That's why I make the comparison.
Interesting... I wonder if AM3 and K8L are related? Will the 2xFP make it's way to desktop on AM3?
I bet 07 is a big year in general, where-as 2006 is transitional.
Kentsville, AM3, K8L, DDR3, quad cores, more cache, 65nm, co-processors, vista, parallel computing catching on, DX10...hold on to your ass.
New tech boom?
I understand. No need to wait. You *still* have no idea what you're talking about. Denial is such a sad thing ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
Just thing people tend to forget. When Conroe will be released, they will have only limited quantities (ex: 10% Conroe VS 90% current intel) So that mean even if Conroe beat AMD current offering, this will not hurt AMD that much this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81
I don't think many people will bother with it, we'll be going Conroe. The only reason AM2 makes sense is in the new system market as DDR2 prices continue to drop due to volume from the Intel side. It's something that needs to be done by AMD as DD3 at price parity is still at least 2H 07.Quote:
Originally Posted by onewingedangel
Who knows at this point, but the point is that the tide will have turned and by next year they will be getting clobbered on the desktop side. Until K8L it looks like Intel is back on top and how :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Charloz24
Well maybe, but that Conroe thing really smells BIG HYPE like Intel does before with Prescott, so I'll rather like to wait and see true results than speak out loud something that still not proven enough yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81
Just wait and see, if Intel is better:Buy intel, if AMD is better:Buy AMD.
Simple as that, wait and see.
Conroe will be used for the extreme editions only at first, right? This alone makes his point valid to me. Most of us don't buy FX60's.
True enough, it will float down by next year to "the rest of us", but that's when K8L, AM3, blah,blah, and blah will be around.
If AM3 with DDR2/3 support, 2x FP (or whatever K8L does), 65nm (by then similar to intel...unlike 65nm Conroe vs. current 90nm DDR1 A64's), quad cores, more cache, ability for co-processors etc appear in 07, the fight just may be on. DDR2 doesn't help AMD, but DDR3 may if the latencies (comparitively speaking) are tighter than DDR2, or the quad cores take advantage of the bandwidth better. That seems to be the major problem now, AMD stuck on latency because of the mem controller and Intel harnessing the bandwidth of DDR2/3 for Conroe (by using a large shared cache.) More cache (or connected cache) may also solve the current problems of AMD vs Memory...who knows? Odds are improvements will be made in that area as well on K8L, as the whispers make it sound like Z-cache and everything else will appear around then.
Certainly the cryptic pieces of AMD's future roadmap (and hints of using certain tech in future CPUs) slowly coming together restores a little faith in others than just me..faith that was lost with those initial conroe benchmarks and the noise of AM2 only supporting DDR2 (with little noise of how far AM2 would go) while intel is transitioning to DDR3. Now that we now where AMD is going, it's a sigh of relief. It may not be a huge arch. change like CONROE, but nips and tucks and tweaks surely could put up a fight, right?
M2 is more than just nips and tucks, it will be the completion of a three year project (Conroe is a 9 month project) You will be impressed...
Micro or Macro?
Will M2 be a continuation of the tweaking of A64 (like they have since it was first introduced, and still seem to be through AM2/3) or is it a new architecture? It seems to me AMD likes to stick with one architecture and then slowly build on it, hence socket A lasting forever and A64 doing the same, even if through different sockets because of the mem controller (perhaps AM3 will change that and allow for some longevity).
If M2 is a new architecture, when? After AM3 and K8L? Is it a socket? Is it a chip design? Will or work in AM3 boards?
All important questions. I've personally never heard of this M2, only that AM2 used to be called M2...but you seem to imply something different. AMD is due for a chip redign, especially if AM3 continues on the regular A64 design with K8L, which it seems to be. Surely whatever comes after that will be new though...and big.
lol nn_step lets jus w8 and see ^^^^^^ i hope amd is goin 2 own damn intel :P
When will we see this M2?Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
let me phrase it this way, K8 is Three years old. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle
There's K8L for Conroe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentential
one thing though.. if AM3 supports both ddr2 and ddr3.. we're gonna have to find a way to keep the ddr2 compatible boards seperate from ddr3 compatible boards, unless ddr2 and 3 are gonna be *gasp* pin compatible.
we will know the answer to that in less than Two weeks.. but indications are very good right now ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzimark
you need a new title nn from ddr3 guru to wait and see guru or m2 guru.
if you gonna talk this much just say things for real i can tell you that cpus are gonna be really fast in the future but i dont need to know a lot for that, right
You'll find the Title DDR3 Guru far more accurate soon enough ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
lets just pray.
stupid question:
if ddr2 and ddr3 are pin compatible wont you stil need a new CPu?
or are AMD64 CPUs with a DDR2 mem controller compatible with DDR3?
btw wont DDR3 need a lower voltage compaired to DDR2?
if they are pin compatable, you can use eithier DDR2 or DDR3 but not both at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream
The AMD64 CPUs with a DDR2 controller are compatible with DDR3 because it is a natively DDR3 controller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzimark
Those seem to be the whispers...They will be. Major +1 for the internal memory controller which it desperately needed.
Perhaps that will be the key improvement of AM3 cpus vs. AM2 cpus. The internal mem controller tweaked to allow them both...Or of course it could just be one of the additions of K8L, if K8L was designed for AM3 all along.
I don't think AM2 will allow for DDR2/3 from the get-go, do you nn_step? I know they are similar (ddr3 is ddr2 based) but I doubt the initial am2 mem controller is set to handle it. Granted, it just may be, or may be through a AM2 chip revision, called AM3, they may be pin compatible to am2 boards. To tell the truth, I don't have a clue. All I know is AMD is going to support DDR3 sooner rather than later, and that things will progress faster than I think most of us thought they were on the AMD side.
Surely more news will break soon to clarify everything...Or maybe someone can just put the whole thing together better than I can.
What makes you think AMD ever designed a DDR2 controller? :rolleyes:
lol :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
All this cryptic :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: . This is why nda's make me so mad, not because i want to know, but because they make me want to :p: (assuming your under nda btw.) So m2 is looking to be ddr3 from the start? but i thought am2 WAS m2.........im so confused.
im doubting very much NNSTep is under NDA, and i think NNSTep also said it best. if Intel = faster, buy intel if AMD faster buy AMD , if Mac is faster , Buy Mac.
simple as that.
however i think the focus put on Kentsfield here is incorrect it will be 2 cores sharing the same limited FSB... wont it?
Where this premise fails is ignoring that Intel's manufactoring capacity is huge. Compared to AMD, the market will be awash with conroes. By AMD's roadmap, they wont have a response for six to nine months. A long time; too long; enough to do more than a lot of hurt. Bright side is the chance of a fire sale by AMD in an attempt to hold onto market share. Of course, if Intel prices reasonably low, then even that move will be nullified. Ow, ow, ow. It's AMD's own damn fault. They got greedy and decided to try to milk the market longer instead of moving to 65 nm as they initially planned back in june of 2005. Instead it's rabbit out of a hat time. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charloz24
You are truly enjoying keeping everyone puzzled :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
Why did AMD ever design a DDR2 controller?
Where this premise fails is in ignoring that Intel's manufactoring capacity is huge. Compared to AMD, the market will be awash with conroes. By AMD's roadmap, they wont have a response for six to nine months. A long time; too long; enough to do more than a lot of hurt. Bright side is the chance of a fire sale by AMD in an attempt to hold onto market share. Of course, if Intel prices reasonably, then even that move will be nullified. Ow, ow, ow. It's AMD's own damn fault. They got greedy and decided to try to milk the market longer instead of moving to 65 nm as they initially planned back in june of 2005. Instead it's rabbit out of a hat time. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charloz24
revision f have a ddr2 memory controller.
The ddr3 memory standard isn't even finalised yet, so its impossible to have ddr3 memory controolers. Also I believe ddr3 is rather different to ddr2, so a memory controller would have to have redundent components for either format - prehaps even dual memory controllers if a cpu were to be compatible with both formats.
I doubt that to be the case.
More likely am3 or whatever it will be called will be ddr2 when used by a ddr2 cpu and ddr3 when used by a ddr3 cpu. Quite what this means for board layouts remains to be seen - will am3 boards all contain both ddr2 and 3 sockets? This makes little sense - which to mean suggests that you'll need to match a ddr3 cpu (am3) and motherboard (am3) for ddr3, and a ddr2 cpu (am2) and ddr2 motherboard (am2) for ddr2.
Otherwise revision G (am3) may be a tweaked am2 socket - use am2 motherboards for ddr2 and am3 motherboard for ddr3. - Bu again the complexities of a memory controller supporting both formats (and the pinout supporting it) would mean a far more complex memory controller - far better to just jump to ddr3 with a subsequent socket.
What i think nn is hinting at is that the mem controller is not the main innovation in socket m2, what we have seen with am2 is just a redesign of current technology that is becoming quite old, and while conroe beats am2 at the moment that is because its comparing 2 diferent generations of technology, despite when they were produced. "The future's bright, the future's outwitted me"
http://pbskids.org/clifford/shared/i...ouse-wrong.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by onewingedangel
DDR3 can be only one of two specs
AMD's which is plug and play DDR2 but superior
Intel's which is Identical to AMD's Except that two pins switched locations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3
different technology base to ddr2.
gddr3 is an evolved form of ddr2, wheras ddr3 is as different from ddr2, as ddr2 is from ddr1.
Thus to have a chip support both ddr2 and 3 would mean a very complicated memory controller that vastly increases the size of the chip unneccesarily - I would prefer that the die space be used on increasing performance. It would be far better to have seperate lines am2 for ddr2 and am3 for ddr3.
physical differentiation between ddr2 and 3 is essential - so that joe public doesn't try to plug in incompatable memory.
This is where the high level of integration by amd starts to fail them. Having the memory controller on die limits flexibility, having a memory controller on motherboard allow more flexibility. After all you can use a 775 cpu with ddr1, 2, or eventually 3, but you must tie your memory into the motherboards physical support. Until theres a unified memory interface such as fb dimm that can span multiple generations of memory, I think its better for amd to be very specific in terms of support - clearly having ddr1/2/3 boards rather than hybrid boards.
:rolleyes: I guess if Wikipedia says it :rolleyes:
You'll see..;)
What I think he's saying fellas, is that they support DDR3 all along, which he's been saying forever. I believe he thinks that DDR3 support will also encompus DDR2 support because they are so similar. IOW, AMD will have DDR2 support at launch, and DDR3 when it comes out.
This remains to be seen.
I think a CPU revision will be needed over AM2 (AM3) to make this possible, although he MAY be right that they do it from the get go.
Who knows about boards, they might be pin compatible (DDR2/3), they might not. Same thing for AM3. It might be a CPU revision, it might be a new socket. Regardless, AM3 will support both DDR2 and DDR3 somehow.
The semantics will remain until official clarification.
Tony (OCZ) and a guy from Mushkin have both said in another thread that DDR2 boards won't be pin compatible with DDR3.. someone can search for the thread if they want, I'm too lazy. Just something to think about
Even if they are compatible, for the sake of idiots they will have to be different to keep the lawyers away.
If they're gonna make AM3 compatible with both DDR2 and DDR3, it means that either the socket will stay the same for a few more years (at least, for the desktops) so AM3 CPUs will fit in both DDR2 and DDR3 motherboards, or AM3 will have different versions for DDR2 and DDR3. Neither would be a logical choice. I doubt AM3 will support DDR2.
i certainly think nn_step knows what he is talking about.
and i certainly think all you people who think amd will just let conroe crush them are fools.
amd has had plenty of time to come up with something big. but keeping it pretty hush hush for the time being.
but like what was said before, the coming months we gonna be seeing some big things happen.
For all your hatred of the Inq, you people monger rumors worse than a sewing circle.
I think nn is right, AMD is not that stupid, They released the K7 when it looked like AMD wasn't going to have anything better and it hurt intels market share alot, then they released the K8 when the K7 was starting to loose from the P4, so I don't think AMD will just sit there and let conroe winQuote:
Originally Posted by iddqd
actually both Socket 754 and Socket 939 were K8..
Socket 754 was just a stop gap. And as history has shown.. was quickly passed over...
Anyone who thinks AMD is just going to sit down and take it like a mexican hooker on a roofers payday is out of their mind.
Seriously now, Conroe will be a beast, and will probably have it's 6 months to shine, but to think that AMD is just going to let them own them is just frivolous.
Dude that was too good to pass up :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
I feel priviliaged, I'm now your official quote for the month.
Do you have any idea how much money there is in server and OEM market??? They're spending their resuouces in the most effecient way - If you wanna call it a mexican hooker, fine, but they'll freaking well earn alot of cash in that way...Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
NN_Step, hmm, I'd might be mixing your profile with another one, just thought I've seen 16 as age, if thats the case, how the heck can you even sign a NDA??
- I think AMD will be back with a brand new architecture someday, AM2 will be a FLOP but the one afterwards will be like a new AXP->A64... :toast:
(I dont think conroe will be the badass btw.. - The XE will ofcause, but E6700 2,66ghz will probaly not be as good as merom 2.33ghz when both are clocked)
i think we have mexicans overhere show respect :P
i agree with nn_step as we came to a conclusion AMD will support both ddr2 and 3
Most people under NDA keep their mouths shut like a good boy.... me included. These people usually don't flaunt their knowledge about upcoming products, unless begged to do so ;)
This is just a general rule of thumb; it's not always true.
if you know about next gen amd processor i can beg a lot xD
You apparently mis-understood me, I said they won't lie down and let intel take the crown without a fight...Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
K8L info is already pretty common.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
Plus, I wasn't referring to myself :(
I think you got me wrong... Cause I say they will...Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
Theres ALOT more cash for them in focussing a bit more on server / OEM then the highend equiptment...
BUT - I think they'll be back, just not in 2006...
Notice I said conroe will have about 6 months to shine, now think...july + 6 months = not in 2006.
So yes, you misunderstood me.
6 months, aint that throwing the crown??? 6 months, thats 1-2 CPU for edge tech users...Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
you know nn_step, and i hate to spam up the news forum, but simply predicting that amd will use ddr3 someday, and saying "just wait" tells me you know nothing and are just looking for attention. obviously technology isn't going to just stop overnight, we all know very well that amd AND intel will eventually go to ddr3.
so please, just stop with the retarded comments and putting a gay ;) after everything like you know something. it's getting very old, and this isn't the place. i believe theinquirer has some message boards that would be perfect for you.
so that's when they find out.....great :DQuote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
im shure AMD is working ons omething.
that Intel is doing the big promotion tour with their upcoming CPUs doesnt mean AMD has nothing waiting.
AMD and Intel both are constantly researching and developing new tech.
They have to cause doing nothing will result in serious longtime ass raping and when the ass raping takes to long it will end in near death.
like said by others AMDs new stuff will need some time cause it aint finished yet.
Just hope Intel doesnt make the same mistake and they sit on their hands to long.
Intel's roadmap shows the follow up to conroe to be mid 2007; 45nm ridgefield. From that you can surmise Intel is intending to keep the lead once regained. At that time, AMD will have moved to 65nm just six to three months prior and again finding themselves behind the curve(assuming they ever caught up to conroe). They aren't competing with the crappy p4 core anymore where being a generation behind in fab processing is OK. It'll be interesting to see what AMD comes up with to recover since in order to do so they're going to have to build a better mouse trap at 65nm than intel's ridgefield(souped up conroe) at 45nm.
ROTFLMAOCRBTQuote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
Sigged.
Yes as you said, bigger process fab is not necessarily a problem. As a fact, nVidia 110nm vs. ATI 90nm. 7800GTX512 does pretty well against X1900XTX.Quote:
Originally Posted by keiths
So two weeks (and +3 months, IIRC it was '05 when this started) waiting to know if nn is right or wrong?. I can't wait :D It's been long since the "war" was this intense: Conroe, AM2, Z-RAM, L3, DDR3, QuadCores, QuadSLI, 65nm. Fun, fun, fun! Bad news for our wallets in around 6 months :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by mursaat
yteah i know, screw it if prices keep rising exponentially like they have been. nobody wants to dish out 700$ each for four video cards, and nobody will want quad cores if the price is almost double that of dual cores, (like it is now with single vs dual core amd)
I never made that claim; in fact I think that K10 is due in about a year or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Head
But this is just rumor mongering.
Like the INQ.
But much worse.
Just an observation.
i wonder how much a whole setup will cost if we could only transfer some components from our existing 939
WUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
You almost killed me :D
From what I have read so far within most of the threads concerning Conroe, all I would say is to wait.
As nn_step point out, the K8 structure is 3 years old. By the end of this year, we can truly see which company will win the performance crown.
I am thinking that AMD would release a DDR3 version of the current AM2 except with a highly tweaked architecture.
Been 2 weeks, what's up?:)
Wait, someone catch me up to speed here, what are the release dates for AM2 and Conroe to hit the market?
AM2 = June 6th
Conroe = ??? Q3 sometime
lol :with: it IS getting pretty old. I agree with everything said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Qkjhfhaiguihfma
Conroe ETA is July.Quote:
Originally Posted by vapb400
Amd show no plans to support ddr3 until 2008, which would mean if am3 was to be released as ddr3 compatible only and not backwards compatible with ddr2 then it wont be released till 2008, also amd show no plans to prepare for 45nm production in the next 2 years so even if they release am3 in 2008 intel will be onto 45nm and based on there current results with conroe would still be in front of amd i am in no way a fanboy of either side i will use which ever is best at the time, currently amd but preparing for intel.
Maybe quad core amd with there planned shared l3 cache and hypertransport 3 will make a differnce over intels limited fsb with quad core unless intel has plans to change its limited front side buss architecture for quad cores.
All i can say based on looking at amd and intels 3 year road maps is that in the next few years it looks like intel and amd will be releasing some great technological advances and our computing and gaming experiences will be much improved over current technology. i would say july 2007 will be a interesting time for comparison of amd and intel but for now lets just wait and see. just my 2 cents.
how very annoying of you pocketbikeuk....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieate
hey sorry i only hit the button once i have no clue why it posted so many times?
haha fair enough :)