Venus Software Monitoring Comparison

These results were obtained on Venus #D607000349 in Win XP x64 Editon.
Basically a comparison of the latest versions of software monitoring utilities.

I've tried to show a comparison of temps/voltages/fans between MBM5, cpu-z, SysTool, Everest Ultimate Edition 2.8, and a beta of the new version of NextSensor that Vitaliy (VVJ @ CBID) is working on. I really like the 3 decimal place readout of NextSensor but there are still issues with fan speeds and of course I still need MBM5 for importing data to the MatrixOrbital display and Samaurize. Nextsensor also seems to read the 12v rail correctly where all the others are a little high.

ALL the programs are still reading 8-10 degrees lower than the exact same setup on my Ultra-Ds.
I am also sure that Everest is incorrectly naming the sensors themselves and I have added the correct names to the screenshot.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98//Venus-Temps.JPG

I also get incorrect results using the A64 memory tweaking in SysTool compared to A64 Tweaker. SysTool is still in Alpha stage and hopefully W1zzard can fix these bugs.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx9...vsA64Tweak.JPG

More details on MBM5 for the DFI LanParty boards can be found here
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6798

These all all EXCELLENT programs and kudos to the authors for attempting to give us what motherboard manufacturers can't, correct readings of voltages and temperatures. As you can see they are all very close in readings and your preference is really what matters.

Yes, of course software monitoring is no substitute for a Digital Multimeter. but if you measure with a DMM and than correct the voltage.ini in MBM5 you can get very close to being on the button. MBM5 remains my app of choice since it uses the fewest resources, Voltage and temps can be calibrated/compensated for, and works in both 32 and 64 bit OSes.

All credit for MBM5 to it's author, Alexander Van Kaam.
Hope this helps someone. :)

soundx98...thanks for your work here. I have this "beautiful box" sitting here but won't be able to get to it until the weekend.

So IIRC, MBM works with the Venus aside from the CPU temps being 8-10 degrees off (as it is with the Expert)? Like you I use the data from MBM for my Crystalfontz device to display quite a bit of information. Good to know I can still use it. :banana:

What memory are you using?

edit: Nice clocks on the oppty. :clap:

Thank you for the kind words. :)
Just wanted to make sure that people knew the various programs were all good on the board and it is really a matter of preference as to which you use.

If you are worried about MBM5 reading a little high on 12v line you can switch it from ITE8712F Voltage Standard 4 to ITE8712F Voltage Standard 2 and it then will read a tad low. :)
Here is an oldie but goodie that Supershanks found from back in the day
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=37620
May help you as well

My Venus is definately reading the VDimm 0.05 to 0.06 lower in MBM5 than it is set in the Bios.

RAM is old skewl Mushkin PC3500 Black Level II BH-5 with a 5/6 divider, Drive Strengths at 8, Level 1.

Thanks for information. I'm going to start testing with my Venus later this week.

Thanks for using NextSensor, soundx98! A new version will be available to download soon. Great sceenshots!

Good work,

Ill have to start using NextSensor, Looks good.:D

As Vitaliy (VVJ) said, his new version will be available soon. It just seems very accurate and easy to use.
The current NextSensor that is available at cbid.amdclub.ru is designed for Winbond sensors not the ITE8712F that the DFi's use. (Works great on my NF2). The thermal offset under P-states in CBID intrigues me and VVJ says it is something he may incorporate. I am still not sure if it shows the CPU's corrected temperature or what we need to correct. I'll leave it to smarter guys. Some thoughts on Therma Offset are here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=89487

I plan on using both as like the display of Video Card temps in MBM5.
But it seems like all the programs have unique features that make you keep them around for one feature or another.
I've pretty much given up on Sandra and really like the Benchmarks in the New Everest Ultimate.
W1zzard's SysTool has a ton of potential and utilities. Still an Alpha but a lot of ground work done.
Speedfan and SmartGuardian have never really appealed to me, but others love them.

Be really nice if we could give these authors more feedback on the programs including bugs. AVK of MBM5 said the reason he stopped working on MBM5 was that is was just too difficult to get information from sensor and mobo manufacturers.
Hope to get some time to do some real measuring with a DVM and Dallas Thermal Probes for some fine tuning.

I’ve just uploaded.
http://cbid.amdclub.ru/work/nxsensor.zip
The final version that officially available at the website doesn’t support ITE chips.

Thanks for sharing the latest Beta man.

I see you've got the AUX FAN (DFI Chipset Fan on Fan Header #3) working correctly now. Great work.
But I'm geting the floating decimal point error when I try and enable SYSFAN Fan Header #2 on board) with a fan plugged in. Needed to kill the entire process in Task Manager to stop it.
Same issue as I was having yesterday with the AUX FAN. Will the same "fix" work? Tested in both 32 and 64 bit OS. Keep up the great work!

Hmm i dont trust the +12 readings and vbat i got same value like you but i know my +12 is 12.4-> in "nvsensor" .

VVJ do you know whats are the problem?and are you working on it?:)

Hmm, I couldn't get MBM5 to work on the venus anymore. Some error like "couldn't load driver" or whatever. :confused:

xgman, ygpm

Hey soundx98...I just figured out you are the guy I should be thanking profusely for your work on the MBM DFI guide. Doh!

Did you ever notice that ITE Smartguardian "seems" to report the 12v line a little more accurately than most of the other apps? MBM for example seems to commonly report 12.41v for the +12v line whereas Smartguardian typically reports 12.07-09 on my board.

I would really like to know where SG is reading the volts from.

Just an observation I wanted to share.

It's probably cause I have the ITE8712F set to Voltage Standard 4 instead of my original Voltage Standard 2 in MBM5. It's a tough rail to measure as it varies quite a bit more than the others usually, and even a small difference can result in a big difference in displayed readings.

This is from an old post by MBM5's author, Alex Van Kaam. (2003)
He is explaining that a difference of 0.00016v can result in a 0.02v difference in MBM5 readout (or any other software program).

Quote:

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Question: My Voltage is a bit off
Answer: Voltages are stored in the sensor chip as bytes, so a value between 0 and 255.

To get them into a number one must use a calculation, this calculation has to be the exact opposite of the way the board went from voltage to a byte value.

if the board maker does not stick to the exact specification in the sensor chip's datasheet then mbm will be a bit off.

An option you still have it to see if you can select another voltage configuration on the mbm voltage tab, this will effact all your voltage readout and there might be one that matches your board better.

Soundx98 Note: You can check this by changing/opening MBM5 settings - Voltages - and changing the "Voltage Configuration" from my config files default of "ITE8712F Standard 4" to "ITE8712F Standard 2" and watch the 12v line drop dramatically".

If your still out of luck you can make your own voltage configuration, simply open the voltage.ini file with notepad and start reading

how it's calculated example

the sensor chip retuns 106

MBM (and your bios): 106 * 0.016 = 1.694

0.016 has to be the exact opposite of what the resistors do (only if you made the board you know what it has to be exactly)

Since the sensor chip can only hold byte's you can have a situation where the value that goes from the resistors into the sensor chip is 106.49 = 106

even a very little 0.01 "real" voltage diffrence will cause the value in the sensor chip to go from 106 to 107

now with mbm (and your bios) that would mean

107 * 0.016 = 1.71 where it was 1.69

another way to look at it:

[real voltage 1.70384] / 0.016 = 106.49 = 106 in sensor chip * 0.016 = [voltage mbm 1.69]

[real voltage 1.70400] / 0.016 = 106.50 = 107 in sensor chip * 0.016 = [voltage mbm 1.71]

so a 0.0016 voltage change shows a 0.02 voltage change in mbm or any other program.

this also explains those voltage that seem to move or jump a lot

- Alex
Last edited by Alex van Kaam on 09-16-2003 at 06:00 AM

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Again, there is nothing more accurate than measuring with a Digital Voltmeter. Luckily MBM5 does allow you to "calibrate/compensate" Voltage and Temp readings if you take the time to measure them.

All credit to AVK. :)

Here is what I found in the latest Revision Guide for AMD Athlon 64 and AMD Opteron Processors, Rev 3.59:

http://jungle.mam.by/work/errata.gif

Thanks for continuing to look into this issue VVW.
Unfortunately it still does not answer the question for those using single core optys and x64 chips/

Intresting, is this why DFI's beta bios has adjustable offset by 5-10*?

to read the cpu voltage on the venus with a dmm do i measure off of the bottom of the three smds that are labeled c203,c293,c298 near the upper right hand corner of the cpu socket? if this is the measure point, when i set 1.475v x 109.6 = 1.61v, but cpuz and mm5 read 1.57, and the bios reads 1.59v but the dmm reads 1.643v. if this is the correct measure point, my 170 takes about .054 more volts to be stable than my a8n32 did. is this the correct read point? thanks of ryour hard work guys

Good news, guys! I’ve just connected to the thermal diode of my AMD Sempron processor. So, NextSensor will have an addition K8ThermDiode temperature option to sense the temperature of any AMD64 processor. Actually, I found for myself that my W83627EHF chip is too inertial. As an experiment, I’ve created an ambient condition with a rapidly changed temperature gradient. So, the thermal diode was quickly responding to the ambient temperature changes and finally showed a true value of the temperature at the end of experiment – 18 Celsius degrees, while the hardware monitoring chip showed 28 Celsius degrees.

Bring it on Vitaliy,
I'm more than happy to continue as a tester.
Regards and Respect

Hi there!

Here is the link to unofficial version: http://cbid.amdclub.ru/files/nxsensor_b.zip

http://jungle.mam.by/work/thermdiode.gif

See the new K8ThrmDiode option. Note, NextSensor doesn’t use any formula, it reads the temperature directly from the processor!

Any feedbacks appreciated!

Oh, a new version has a Remote Monitor function. Just enable it and you can get the temp/voltage/Fan status using a web browser.

I don't think this is reading temps correctly. If so, my CPU would be in trouble if it idled at this temp:
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/7...temp4su.th.jpg

Also, if you look at my smart guardian temp, which includes a +6 or +8 (i forget atm) delta, it is no where close.

Edit: actually, i just noticed i am supposed to be looking at the K8 temp thing, which is not enabled with my system.

go to "controls" and select DFI LanParty.

I'm testing as well right now.

It should enable Vdimm and VLDY readings as well and allow selection of K8THAMDIODE

Diverge, actually, old AMD64 processors with CG, C0, B3 Revision are not supported by NextSensor. Therefore, the K8ThrmDiode checkbox is always disabled.

soundx98, thanks a lot! I’ll be waiting for your results!

K8ThrmDiode temp went up to 58° while processor temp was 33° !

I used S&M's FPU test

I'm using a IT87xxF compatible mobo, not using Venus

Hey VVJ, can you add :

fan divisors ?
mbprobe style tray icon flashing both mb/cpu temps and baloon showing fan speeds ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReelMonza

Hey VVJ, can you add :
fan divisors ?
mbprobe style tray icon flashing both mb/cpu temps and baloon showing fan speeds ?

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If people are ready to pay for my software then I’ll be glad to develop anything they want ;-)

Good luck!

OK, I got your point

See ya

Vitaliy, as I said in earlier conversations I like this program very much.

Testing on Venus with Opty 146 CAB2E 0540 FPMW using MBM5 and SysTool for comparisons. On 3/29 Bios but Temp Adjustment in Sys Health is set to Default. Rest of equipment in sig.
I'm using my "stock" MBM5 config WITHOUT Voltage calibration ini.

This is the 146 we discussed that shows a P-State of +20 in CBID.
(older pic I posted earlier)
http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98//Pstate.gif

The temps are matching my MBM5 exactly. (as does SysTool)
As far as voltages I have not had a chance to test with DVM yet, but I still believe that yours are more accurate as I said earlier. I can calibrate my MBM5 voltages to match the DVM (and Nextsensor if it is accurate as I believe).

I'm posting two screenshots of the NextSensor B, MBM5, SysTool comparison.
As I told you and others, I chose to use IHF Voltage Standard 4 in the MBM5 config file because I believe it is closer to the correct CPU Voltage. Unfortunately it also will make 12V Rail show higher than it really is.

The only difference with Screenshot #2 is that the MBM5 voltage sensors are set to read IHF Voltage Standard 2 (instead of 4). This increases the VCore reading but it decreases the 12V rail reading. NextSensor seems to be somewhere in the middle of the two

IHF Voltage Standard 4 (12V high)

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx9...tsensor_B1.JPG

IHF Voltage Standard 2 (12V Low)

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx9...tSensor_B2.JPG

The K8THAMDIODE sensor at Idle continually fluctuates between 30 and 36 degrees and seems to spend most of the time at either 32 or 34 degrees. I did note that it is always an even number, never 33 or 35. It's been idleing without any use and most programs killed for an hour and still slight shifts.

So my question is, "If the K8THAMDIODE is reading 34 and CPU Temp is at 29 are you saying my Motherboard/CPU combination is reading 5 degrees low?"

Sorry for being long winded but I am assuming 95% of the users will never bother to calibrate any program and wanted to be clear on my initial thoughts.

Keep up the excellent work.You'll never know how much the community appreciates people like yourself that develop these excellent FREEWARE programs. Thank you for all your efforts.

Carl

software monitoring is great, but as i stated earlier i would like to know where the raed points on the venus are so i can make a comparrison to the dmm. anybody help me with this?

I enabled the DFI control as Soundx98 said. My results can't be right, I even saw the temp shoot up to 80 degrees, while smart guardian never exceeds 40 (w/ +6 or +8 delta.. would be 30-32 deg w/o delta in bios). My cpu is not one of the older rev's listed above. I ran 1 instance of toast for around 3 minutes (using remote connect to my pc, so can't run 2 instances... might lock up my remote desktop application). Anyway, here's my results:

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/1...emp29cb.th.jpg

i don't think the K8ThrmDiode works for me :(
when idling it measures around 32C, but as soon as i put any load on my cpu, it jumps to over 80C :eek:

soundx98, thank you very much for your highly informative snapshots!

Well, as I can see, the thermal diode is very sensitive comparing with hardware monitoring chip and it more rapidly reacts to the temperature changes. But when the system is absolutely idle its readings should be practically the same as readings of the Super I/O chip. Another interesting thing is when I’m playing MP3 using WinAMP the difference is 5-6 degrees only. After playing, the temperature of the thermal diode quickly goes back and the readings are the same again. So, I suspect you have lunched too many applications that have effected to your result. Try to close some of them and watch the temperature of the processor with NextSensor only.

Yes, I ‘m agreed, users will never apply any thermal offsets and such a crap :-)

Thanks for your kind words, Carl! No problem, I shall do my best to make the life easier! :-)

Pyr0, your processor is in Halt or Stop Grant state when idle. These are low power states. When the processor executes instructions it works in Normal state. So, that was not a bug of NextSensor.

@cronic - http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...12&postcount=2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VVJ

Here is what I found in the latest Revision Guide for AMD Athlon 64 and AMD Opteron Processors, Rev 3.59:

http://jungle.mam.by/work/errata.gif

---

I'm sorry if I post in this thread... My Opteron cpu seems to be hotter than the average:

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3...volt9qs.th.jpg

Ambient temp 21,5 °C, wb 33 °C, radiatore 30 °C.

This test was on my old died sli-dr... when the new mobo will arrive, I'll definitly check (my t-case max is 53 °C)

Now perhaps I know the reason of that temperature... Thank you! ;)

Hi there!

I have just added a small improvement to my NextSensor temperature and voltage monitoring tool. A long time ago I found that each core of the AMD64 processor features two thermal diodes. And recently I decided to add an ability to read measurements of each thermal diode. Here is a new version of NextSensor 2.80 utility. Phenom processors are not supported so far. Below is a screenshot to explain what is what

http://jungle.at.tut.by/work/NxSensor280_4XSthread.png

Enjoy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by soundx98

These results were obtained on Venus #D607000349 in Win XP x64 Editon.
Basically a comparison of the latest versions of software monitoring utilities.

I've tried to show a comparison of temps/voltages/fans between MBM5, cpu-z, SysTool, Everest Ultimate Edition 2.8, and a beta of the new version of NextSensor that Vitaliy (VVJ @ CBID) is working on. I really like the 3 decimal place readout of NextSensor but there are still issues with fan speeds and of course I still need MBM5 for importing data to the MatrixOrbital display and Samaurize. Nextsensor also seems to read the 12v rail correctly where all the others are a little high.

ALL the programs are still reading 8-10 degrees lower than the exact same setup on my Ultra-Ds.
I am also sure that Everest is incorrectly naming the sensors themselves and I have added the correct names to the screenshot.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98//Venus-Temps.JPG

I also get incorrect results using the A64 memory tweaking in SysTool compared to A64 Tweaker. SysTool is still in Alpha stage and hopefully W1zzard can fix these bugs.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx9...vsA64Tweak.JPG

More details on MBM5 for the DFI LanParty boards can be found here
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6798

These all all EXCELLENT programs and kudos to the authors for attempting to give us what motherboard manufacturers can't, correct readings of voltages and temperatures. As you can see they are all very close in readings and your preference is really what matters.

Yes, of course software monitoring is no substitute for a Digital Multimeter. but if you measure with a DMM and than correct the voltage.ini in MBM5 you can get very close to being on the button. MBM5 remains my app of choice since it uses the fewest resources, Voltage and temps can be calibrated/compensated for, and works in both 32 and 64 bit OSes.

All credit for MBM5 to it's author, Alexander Van Kaam.
Hope this helps someone. :)

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Hey , Carl:welcome:
I so missed having you in the AMD Land;) Its about time this is accurately being compaired to our Venus / Expert Motherboards:yepp: and I cannot think of a better and more skilled person to do so:)

Campbell;)
P.S......Great to see you Carl

soundx98,
I need your professional conclusion again, Carl. What do you think about the accuracy of each from the two sensors per core?

hardly "professional" but yes, I love temperature monitoring utilities.(where is the nerd emoticon?)
I've had great results using NextSensor in the past and applaud Vitaliy for the fine work he has done with it and CBID.
Lots of work and little reward.
Tip O' the soundx98 hat to you brother!

Previous versions worked great with all my NF4 versions (Ultra-D/SLI-DR/Expert/Venus) and was one of the few programs that would read an AM2 590 board properly.

Vitaliy, I wish I could help but I no longer have any AMD rigs.
(the program showed as v2.73 when I installed it)
I set it up for DFI UT P35 T2R (I have an LT)
Can't get any "core" readings yet (It's an Intel E3110 Dual Core)

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98//NX.JPG

CPU/PWM/NB were interposed.(correct values/wrong labels)
So then I adjust the settings to as follows

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98//Settings.JPG

And wound up with the following:

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98//NX2.JPG

As you can see the value are identical to the latest version of Everest (4.50.1376) I am using.
This version does allow you to select TJmax and I have selected 95 vs the default value of 105 for the E3110.

I really like the values/fonts in the tray as they seem to be VERY easy to read even with a quick glance at them.

I'd love to get the core temps working on my P35 system as well so let me know if you are looking for additional info.
My backup is a an ASUS Maximus Extreme, I'll see if a little experimentation gets me anywhere with it.

PS Brother Esau has smelly feet :)
He may be able to help you test the current AMD stuff though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soundx98

PS Brother Esau has smelly feet :)
He may be able to help you test the current AMD stuff though.

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I do and thanks for noticing :p: Hey Carl how are you man? You feeling better these days Carl I hope?

Campbell;)

soundx98,
I have already finished a new version of NextSensor. Now it is compatible with Intel Core and dual-core mobile Pentium M processors.

http://jungle.at.tut.by/work/nxs280_4XS_4soundx98.png

I will upload NextSensor in a few hours! Phenom processor seems to be the next! ;)

:)
Make sure you take into consideration the different TJmax for Intels Processors.
But I believe TJmax for the T5600 and E8400/X3110 are all 95 degrees.

Looking Forward to it but I won't get a chance until tonight.
Any advice for the ASUS boards?

I would really love to see it display MHz (speeed) somewhere :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soundx98

:)
Any advice for the ASUS boards?

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Hm, what do you meen?

Quote:

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I would really love to see it display MHz (speeed) somewhere :)

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http://zenith.at.tut.by/work/nxs2.72_ear_4_amdclub.png

What do you think about an additional panel? Ha-ha.. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VVJ

Hm, what do you meen?

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My apologies if I'm OT in an AMD thread but I've got an ASUS Maximus Extreme (readies self for flames).
I can't seem to find the right settings/control for it.
Can you give me hand setting up NextSensor on that motherboard?

Quote:

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http://zenith.at.tut.by/work/nxs2.72_ear_4_amdclub.png

What do you think about an additional panel? Ha-ha.. :rolleyes:

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Oh bring it on brother, bring it on! :clap::clap::clap: