Looks like ATI just Released a 1000 Pound Guerilla to Fight the 7900 GT

well, the 7900 GT was nice for awhile...

the 7900 GT is essentially a OC'd 7800 GTX.
its got some incredibly performance, at a great price.

a few days ago, ATI really had nothing in this price range to go against it.

seems they pulled a 1-2 punch and just dropped the X1800XT down to $300 new.

the X1800XT was the direct competitor of the old 512 meg 7800 GTX... which as we all know, stomped the 256 meg GTX.

with it's 625 mhz core, and 1500 mhz ram...
and 512 meg of VRam.
this looks like the new King of the Mid Range Market.

I had thought ATI was dropping the X1800XT all together.
but now it seems like if ATI can keep this card, on the market, at the $300 price mark, it's the "new card to beat"

(I say that ironically since technically its not new)

the X1800XT had a short life span.
but with this new move, seems ATI has just took over the mid range market and given a whole new life to the X1800XT.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102007

EDIT: its late.. and im dumb. i for some reason was thinking that the 7900GT was a 512meg card.


my apology.. that is a sweet price.. lets see how they perform

I thought it was the x1800xt 512 that competed with the gtx 512. I was under the impression than the 256 xt would be owned by the new 7800 512?
edit:couldnt hit post fast enough :)

yep, yah got me there...

didn't even realize there was a 256 meg version of this card haha...

still tho.. cuz thats what i had written... but i think you may still be right there Kunaak.

what is the difference..

the X1800XT soundly beat the GTX 256.. which is basically now remove the extra 256 of mem it had.. but keep the same clocks that were on each card.

this may still be a better card for 50 bux less

yes, it is still one hell of a nice card.
the 512 would have been nice.

but honestly though, I've seen cheap 512 meg X1800's in the last 2 months, cause almost no one seems to be buying them, even on the OC forums.
so they been going dirt cheap lately.
thought ATI would have caught on to that, and just dropped the price on them by now.

they are still $500 new at newegg...

wow...that's really impressive, even for the 256MB version.

Funny how the graphics market moved really slowly through the X8x0/6800 range, and now new revisions of card are seemingly coming out every month. Great time to be a consumer. :)

But you can't OC 1800XT like 7900GT...

more competition = lower prices :)

good news

if i had choice, i would pick the 7900GT over the x1800 256...

the 7900GT just is umm... new!

I'm still siding with the 7900GT on this one

The X1800XT beats the 7800GTX, but we're talking about a 256mb version of the X1800XT, add on top of that the fact that 7900GT > 7800GTX.

And then to me, lower heat output and superior overclockability of the 7900GT give it a winning edge. The one i just orered is 520/1500 by default, that's a pretty good factory overclock seeing as how 7800GTX stock is 430/1200 lol...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DelaMaris

But you can't OC 1800XT like 7900GT...

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really? hows 823/981 sound for not OCing?

correct me if I am wrong, but can't X1800's easily hit 1800 mhz or more on the ram... and features voltages that you can adjust within windows offering much higher OC potential... without the need for volt mods?

I don't see how a 7900 GT... has "Much" higher OC potential.

both great cards obviously.
but I dont think it would be fair to claim the X1800's aren't as Overclockable... when they obviously did great in the past.

7900gt's can hit 1800mhz on the ram to.

mines clocked at 580mhz core 1800mhz ram.

ok now try 1960 on ram.......................or better yet thats a cherry WR card just shoot for 1900 as almost every x1800xt i have seen can do that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102007

Tempting... :D

Who cares about RAM speed...it's all about TOTAL speed when both are OC'd.

I bet with STOCK coolings, the X1800XT is better....but as cooling improves, the 7900GT starts to pull away.

We should have a showdown - but if i bring a 7900GT to the table, 520/1500 stock speeds are going to be considered stock speeds! :P

Power consumption. I've been waiting to upgrade because I don't want a yearly electric bill that rivals the card's purchase price. Nvidia wins my dollars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Absolute_0

We should have a showdown - but if i bring a 7900GT to the table, 520/1500 stock speeds are going to be considered stock speeds! :P

---

no they are not.

stock speeds for a 7900 GT is 450/1320

what you have is a pre overclocked 7900 GT.

since the X1800XT will be running at it's stock refernece clock, so should the 7900 GT.

otherwise, its not a direct comparision.
now if you want to OC the X1800XT against the 7900 GT, that would be fair, assuming they were done in the same PC, and by the same person (same level of experience)

I think if you buy a card factory overclocked, stock speeds are stock speeds. You pay for the factory overclock. My card was 300$, the X1800XT is 300$, it's a perfect direct comparison.

If you want to do an overclocked test, you would have to overclock both the X1800XT and 7900GT.

To be fair though, in my proposed showdown it would have to be labeled XFX7900GT versus X1800XT, because it's performance doesn't represent ALL 7900GTs.

its not a direct comparision cause every X1800XT since they came out have run the same speed.

so it's not a side by side comparison when one card is running its stock reference speed, and another is running pre overclocked.

ATI has a strict standard for their cards.
where Nvidia let companies OC thier cards.

its not a side by side comparision, when no 7900 GT from any company seems to have the same clock speed.
cause then all your doing is comparing one single brand of 7900 GT against the entire X1800XT line.

As I just bought a 20" LCD (will be picking it up later today), I'm tempted in upgrading my videocard too (X800XT). This, because I'd like to play at 1600x1200, with all eye candy on. I don't have a clue though if my X800XT will be able to handle that.

The X1800XT 512MB has come down in price for the past weeks (listed at 349€ in some stores and even around 330€ right now).
The 7900GT goes around 300-350€ (for the higher overclocked XFX cards).

The 512MB on the X1800XT might be better suited for me, because the extra 256MB compared to the 7900GT will give me more performance at higher resolutions.
At least, that's what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

its not a direct comparision cause every X1800XT since they came out have run the same speed.

so it's not a side by side comparison when one card is running its stock reference speed, and another is running pre overclocked.

ATI has a strict standard for their cards.
where Nvidia let companies OC thier cards.

its not a side by side comparision, when no 7900 GT from any company seems to have the same clock speed.
cause then all your doing is comparing one single brand of 7900 GT against the entire X1800XT line.

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That's why i added in that 3rd line to my post man. If you mention XFX7900GT, it becomes a perfectly fair benchmark. It will just represent XFX7900GTs, not all 7900GTs. But since they're both 300$, seems fair to me.

Wonder if this site is legit
http://newsite.pagecomputers.com/sto...ookie%5Ftest=1
270$ 7900GT. Wow.

both good cards for the money and who will take advantage is the customers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Absolute_0

That's why i added in that 3rd line to my post man. If you mention XFX7900GT, it becomes a perfectly fair benchmark. It will just represent XFX7900GTs, not all 7900GTs. But since they're both 300$, seems fair to me.

Wonder if this site is legit
http://newsite.pagecomputers.com/sto...ookie%5Ftest=1
270$ 7900GT. Wow.

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damn cheap

edit lmfao thats why: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1830.html

Ummm, Kunaak, with all due respect, that's an oem card.

The actual X1800XT's still run at $349+($329 will soon be the MSRP), for just the 256mb model... The 512mb model is to be discontinued.

ATi is setting the X1800XL as the competitor for the 7900GT AFAIK.

if this was the 512 x1800 i woulda already bought since it isnt, i will be uppgrading to a 7900GT and SLI in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Red.Sky

damn cheap

edit lmfao thats why: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1830.html

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lol
well i didn't expect much. But you can find the PNY 7900GT for 290$ on Monarch, but spend the 10$ more and get the XFX instead :) or an eVGA XXX!

lol Overklokk hit 50K with single 1800 (512MB though) and you say no OC :D

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8878621

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814102629R

thats what I mean, if you look around, you can find X1800XT's for cheap, with the 512 megs of ram.
I've seen them as low as $300 a few times at newegg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DelaMaris

But you can't OC 1800XT like 7900GT...

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Funny that.

Iam running 780/820 stock volts on air cooling, and i can bench at 860/900.:)

fwiw - CompUSA had the ATI X1800XT 512 for $299 last week.

The 256MB X1800 XT has been availible over here for a while. Everyone seemed to be buying one. Great card for the price. Can get a Sapphire Retail 256MB X1800 XT for £217 atm.

For £50 extra, around the £260 you can get a Retail Powercolour 512MB X1800 XT, which is a bargin for the card you get... the leader in its price range over here. Preferred to the 7900 GT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814102629R

thats what I mean, if you look around, you can find X1800XT's for cheap, with the 512 megs of ram.
I've seen them as low as $300 a few times at newegg.

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Wouldnt it be abit risky, buying a refurb'd card though?

You had any experience with refurb'd cards?

If SM4.0 was not due out later this year and if Crysis was not on the horizon I would be tempted in upgrading my 6800GS SLi to 7900GT SLi or perhaps even just a single high end card from Ati or nvidia.. however I now have the decision to make on whether I upgrade now and get good use for 6 months or not.

80nm will be even cheaper, but then it's even closer to the new generation cards in Q3/Q4

Regards

Andy

Im with Andy on this one. Not the greatest time to upgrade if you plan to keep your vid card for any lenght of time.

Even the 256MB version can hit 10k on air, the extra memory in the 512MB cards only accounts for 3 to 4% difference in performance in most cases, for 25% less price.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Im with Andy on this one. Not the greatest time to upgrade if you plan to keep your vid card for any lenght of time.

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I agree too....but only if Andy promises to start breaking WRs with the dx10 cards :p

Perkam

I got an X1800XT 256mb for £230, it's a fantastic card! Down to pure 3dmark scores, im currently scoring 11,200 easily in 05, and i think it takes a lot of trying to get a 7900gt to get that high.

7900gt doesn't clock that well either, on the core at least. Core only reaches 550-680mhz max, with very good cooling, and looks like a good score is about 11,200 with fairly high clocks of 680/1840.
I can't see drivers helping the 7900gt further either...it is basically a 7800gtx, which has already been fully exploited. So i doubt we'll be seeing 12k on the 7900gt without supercooling.

wow, nice deal.

Are the 256mb cards equipped with 1.1NS ram like their bigger brothers?

There ya go gentlemen, a member has professed that this card can do 11,200 when tweaked right ;)

Quote:

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I got an X1800XT 256mb for £230, it's a fantastic card! Down to pure 3dmark scores, im currently scoring 11,200 easily in 05, and i think it takes a lot of trying to get a 7900gt to get that high.

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Need I say more :rolleyes: Plus, the X1800XT 256MB will run faster when oced in most cases than the 7900GT 256MB...which also is 256MB :rolleyes:

Perkam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Absolute_0

We should have a showdown - but if i bring a 7900GT to the table, 520/1500 stock speeds are going to be considered stock speeds! :P

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Sure just make sure if your gonna run 7900gtOC speeds you load the xtpe bios up for the x1800xt.........that should even it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814102629R

thats what I mean, if you look around, you can find X1800XT's for cheap, with the 512 megs of ram.
I've seen them as low as $300 a few times at newegg.

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A Refurbished OEM card?

Refurbed doesn't really count, a benchmark should be a NEW nVidia card versus a NEW ATi card that both cost the exact same amount.

Say a buyer has 300$ and wants a card... the benchmark should answer that question. The most for the money, no side variables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chew*

Sure just make sure if your gonna run 7900gtOC speeds you load the xtpe bios up for the x1800xt.........that should even it out.

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Why are you trying to even it out? It isnt a good benchmark when you buy a 300$ card, buy another 300$ card, intend to go head to head, but then decide that ATi needs some help and flash a new bios :rolleyes:
If the cards cost the same amount it's a fair test. And then you can do a benchmark where you overclock both cards to the max on the reference cooler and test that. Stock speeds for two competing 300$ cards, and OCed speeds for two 300$ cards.

Why are you comparing the X1800XT 512MB to the 7900GT 256MB?

Flashing bios costs nothing and needs very little knowledge. Is it fair, for example, to compare x800GTO2 to say 6800 or GS? If we can unlock something or flash bios to better for free, then imo it is perfectly fine. If somebody (wanted to say noobs but not meaning anyone in particular :)) doesn't know how to do it that is their problem.

:toast:

Okay....I'll make a 7900GT BIOS that happens to be at the 80th percentile of their overclocks and we can try that :rolleyes:

BIOS flashing doesn't count for direct stock v stock comparos....only what you can buy from a retailer (which means a refurb OEM does count).

On top of that, screw stock speeds....get a sample of 3-5 of each and test them at their max clocks (with stipulations for system equality, of course) and then again on various cooling. Yeah, it costs money but it's the fastest way to end this silly debate.

If no one wants to shell out the 2-3 grand (likely, heh) then we'll have to wait and see for a conclusion. All I know is that my money is going towards a 7900GT....I'd take it over an X1800XT512 any day (but for reasons that aren't of import to this thread as I don't doubt the X1800XT512 being faster), and in the end all these companies are truly after are the dollars (and ATi ain't gonna be making a whole lot with the X1800XT at $300, that's for sure).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

I bet with STOCK coolings, the X1800XT is better....but as cooling improves, the 7900GT starts to pull away.

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Wrong, at least as far as I can tell. x1800s seem to like cooling. 7800s were ALL voltage really. Not sure if the smaller die 7900 likes cooling more but the real difference between GT and GTX clocks is stock voltage...

They both like cooling....just the X1800XT's stock cooler is so much superior and the 7900GT responds very well to volts, just the stock cooler can't handle it ;)

Also ATI is now letting partners OC there cards!

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=90332

I take it nobody took notice of my topic or something from like a month ago? :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

its not a direct comparision cause every X1800XT since they came out have run the same speed.

so it's not a side by side comparison when one card is running its stock reference speed, and another is running pre overclocked.

ATI has a strict standard for their cards.
where Nvidia let companies OC thier cards.

its not a side by side comparision, when no 7900 GT from any company seems to have the same clock speed.
cause then all your doing is comparing one single brand of 7900 GT against the entire X1800XT line.

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:clap: congrats, you just gave away all benchmark wins to X1800XT :clap:

PS: I dont think you should use Cat6.3 driver... its not stock... the card came with Cat5.10, so that is what you should use. Yess this is how dumb your comment was -_-

its a natural move for ATI to lower the price of this card, if they didn't any one who knew any thing would never buy it. I would still defiinitly go with the 7900gt over this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shadowmage

Why are you comparing the X1800XT 512MB to the 7900GT 256MB?

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price?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hicks

price?

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In terms of price, the X1800XT 256MB is about the same as the price of the 7900GT 256MB.

In terms of price, they're about the same until you try to run them, at which point, ATI is much more expensive; ever increasingly so. Like A64 vs P4.

More expensive(Electricity) and ALOT louder. Power wise there's no questioning who runs on less watts, that much is for certain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perkam

There ya go gentlemen, a member has professed that this card can do 11,200 when tweaked right ;)

Need I say more :rolleyes: Plus, the X1800XT 256MB will run faster when oced in most cases than the 7900GT 256MB...which also is 256MB :rolleyes:

Perkam

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I can't work out if all those rolleyes were heavy sarcasm or not. But i was just pointing out, on a common benchmark, we can all reference to, my 256mb x1800xt beats all 7900gt iv seen so far.

And also, as i said, IQ is significantly better on the Ati side of things. Don't ask how, but everything (textures especially) look a lot less blurry on Ati (not just having higher AA or anything, i compared at same IQ settings).

And johnny, i saw that thread, it's what set me looking in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

:clap: congrats, you just gave away all benchmark wins to X1800XT :clap:

PS: I dont think you should use Cat6.3 driver... its not stock... the card came with Cat5.10, so that is what you should use. Yess this is how dumb your comment was -_-

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not a clue of what you just said...

but whatever.
it's obvious to me that people are getting kinda desperate to retain some sort of performance crown for thier perferd brand of videocard, and will grasp at any thing that gives them that edge they need.

BFG 7900 GT 475/1360
Gigabyte 7900 GT 450/1320
XFX EX 7900 GT 520/1500
EVGA 7900 GT 550/1580
XFX again... 560/1650
Another XFX 550/1630
MSI 7900 GT 450/1320
Asus 7900 GT 430/1300
PNY 7900 GT 450/1320
EVGA 7900 GT 500/1500

thats from newegg, as of this morning.
notice how out of all those, only 3 are running the actual reference clock of what a 7900 GT is suppose to be?

now, lets take a look at ATI's clocks.
again, from newegg... today.

HIS 512 X1800XT 625/1500
ATI 512 X1800XT 625/1500
Asus 512 X1800XT 625/1500
HIS 256 X1800XT 625/1500
Sapphire 256 X1800XT 625/1500

every card in bold... is running it's reference stock clock.

now.
this means, if you get a X1800XT, you know what to expect, cause every card comes with the same clock.
with the 7900 GT.... thats not so.
almost none of them run the same clock speeds.

so if you wanted to review these cards side by side...
and if you say, had the MSI one, and it didn't quite beat the X1800XT.
then you can just switch to the XFX ones... and then it would beat it, cause it was already overclocked.
so if you can't find a 7900 GT to beat the X1800... then you can just whine about "well this is stock" and get a XFX one... and get that advantage you need to be able to say the 7900 GT is better.

when infact... it's not.
your switching to a overclocked card, to sway things in your favor.

the entire X1800XT series, runs the same clocks.
the 7900 GT series, runs vastly different clocks, depending on the company you buy the card from.
so theres no way to get a "side by side" comparison.

what your going to get, is one specific brand of 7900 GT Vs. the Entire X1800XT line.

now, if your entire arguement is somehow based on the Catalyst Overdrive... might I remind you, that Overdrive, has to be unlocked, and doesn't run by default?

but whatever...
I've learned alot from this topic lately, and how peoples idea of "stock" vary greatly... even when they say things like "pre overclocked" and "stock" in the same sentance...

Kunaak, the Asus x1800xt TOP runs at 700 core... Just, they're no longer being produced, ASUS already begun discontinuing their x1800xt models. That's why very few, if any, stores still have them.

http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/...re/1580_2.html
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...68&modelmenu=1

Personally, I see it like this... Whatever your card is out of the box, that's STOCK for it, especially when MOST models aren't at "nvidia's stock" anymore. Don't care what anyone else says.

ATi allows partners to overclock their cards too, if those partners choose not to then that's on them, and so far the only partner to overclock the x1800xt was ASUS with their highly priced "top" edition.

Ati has really screwed up last year not only with releasing in low quantities, but there policies. Not only did they give up the 3 year warrenty to 1 year, they also screwed over anyone that bought a 1800xt, by releasing a much better product 3 months later with no incentive to upgrade( a la EVGA). ATI also made their 1800 series customers videocards reduced to half their value their by ripping them off(since this was only a couple months ago). THis was not because of competitive pricing, but a incompetent release schedule. The 1900 and 1800 should have been released at the same time with the 1800 series being released at the price they are now.

Nvidia business model has lead to a much better support system. Notice Kunaak that each of the ones you didn't highlight that comes pre overclocked comes with a lifetime warrenty. Every single ONE. With ati you get crap warrenty if you want to get the competitive oem pricing that just matches Nvidia in price in regards to the 7900GT.

Since much of this arguement is regards to value for the performance. We should consider these overclocked stock for even more reason.

If we followed your model as the comparison, should we deny the customer lifetime warrenties because it is unfair because ATI doesn't come with one(unless your powercolor(but even there lifetime warrenty pales to the nvidia ones)), and this is not stock on the ATI.

STOCK to me is whatever is covered under warrenty and comes out of the factory.

Most people are going to buy xfx, evga, and bfg anyways because they offer the best value, best service and best performance. So if we want to compare what is best for the consumer, we have to take the best of both fields ATI and nvidia. We shouldn't get the worst performer from nvidia, because us as those with knowledge about videocards want to help people make the best decisions on their purchase. Not to disclude a nvidia card because it came with too many value incentives. Its like saying sorry Nvidia you have to break your legs because you are too much for the competition.

Why do we care about warrenties? With the 7900s, if you truely want good clocks, you will have to vmod them. Bye bye warrenty. Plus if you toast a card overclocking you would be a real jerkoff to take advantage of a company because you screwed up.

hmm i foresee more users doing a bios flash than a hard mod. warrantee is a good thing to have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

not a clue of what you just said...

but whatever.
it's obvious to me that people are getting kinda desperate to retain some sort of performance crown for thier perferd brand of videocard, and will grasp at any thing that gives them that edge they need.

BFG 7900 GT 475/1360
Gigabyte 7900 GT 450/1320
XFX EX 7900 GT 520/1500
EVGA 7900 GT 550/1580
XFX again... 560/1650
Another XFX 550/1630
MSI 7900 GT 450/1320
Asus 7900 GT 430/1300
PNY 7900 GT 450/1320
EVGA 7900 GT 500/1500

thats from newegg, as of this morning.
notice how out of all those, only 3 are running the actual reference clock of what a 7900 GT is suppose to be?

now, lets take a look at ATI's clocks.
again, from newegg... today.

HIS 512 X1800XT 625/1500
ATI 512 X1800XT 625/1500
Asus 512 X1800XT 625/1500
HIS 256 X1800XT 625/1500
Sapphire 256 X1800XT 625/1500

every card in bold... is running it's reference stock clock.

now.
this means, if you get a X1800XT, you know what to expect, cause every card comes with the same clock.
with the 7900 GT.... thats not so.
almost none of them run the same clock speeds.

so if you wanted to review these cards side by side...
and if you say, had the MSI one, and it didn't quite beat the X1800XT.
then you can just switch to the XFX ones... and then it would beat it, cause it was already overclocked.
so if you can't find a 7900 GT to beat the X1800... then you can just whine about "well this is stock" and get a XFX one... and get that advantage you need to be able to say the 7900 GT is better.

when infact... it's not.
your switching to a overclocked card, to sway things in your favor.

the entire X1800XT series, runs the same clocks.
the 7900 GT series, runs vastly different clocks, depending on the company you buy the card from.
so theres no way to get a "side by side" comparison.

what your going to get, is one specific brand of 7900 GT Vs. the Entire X1800XT line.

now, if your entire arguement is somehow based on the Catalyst Overdrive... might I remind you, that Overdrive, has to be unlocked, and doesn't run by default?

but whatever...
I've learned alot from this topic lately, and how peoples idea of "stock" vary greatly... even when they say things like "pre overclocked" and "stock" in the same sentance...

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EXACTLY

if you want to compare ATI X1800XT to nVidia reference 7900GT, by all means go ahead. However, that will hardly give you a proper comparison. Almost everyone in these and other forums is buying the 500/520/550Mhz versions of the 7900GT.

Lets say you find two models you really like:
Powercolor X1800XT
eVGA 7900GT CO

If you were a reviewer, you wouldn't just ignore eVGA trade-up, just because the other doesn't have it. Likewise, you would compare each card at its guaranteed from the factory as is clocks. If you lower the eVGA's clock's its no longer "stock" as in, it is changed from default. Perhaps you are getting confused because sometimes people use "stock" to mean nVidia reference clocks (and righly so, if they their particular card uses reference clocks).

I'm buying an Nvidia reference clocked XFX 7900GT. I'm going to vmod it, get grease all over it, kill the warrenty and not even care about HDR + AA.

Sure, I'd love the option of an X1800XT, but for a Linux user it's just not an option, such a shame :(

However, even if i could use the ATi I'd have half a mind to get the Nvidia. I think it's just a more "fun" card to mod up and get benching with.

Also, i think it's a bit late in the day to be moving to RD580 and CF on socket939, so I'm inclined to go with SLi 7900GT with my NF4 (Nvidia _really_ trumps ATi there on 'nix systems). People also seem to keep quoting 05 scores. Yes it's slower in 05, but I'm thinking it's going to be faster than it's ATi counterpart in 3dmark06 judging from how it's bigger brother is performing (I'm talking overclocked and not "stock").

Quote:

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Originally Posted by afireinside

Why do we care about warrenties? With the 7900s, if you truely want good clocks, you will have to vmod them. Bye bye warrenty. Plus if you toast a card overclocking you would be a real jerkoff to take advantage of a company because you screwed up.

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EVGA even warranties their cards if killed from OVERCLOCKING.

Only thing they don't cover is physical damage. No marks on the cards, no questions asked, you're being sent a new one... So much for warranties not making a difference. You can also step up within 90 days to a better card if you feel inclined too. You merely pay the difference.

How about BFG, if your card is discontinued and you send it in for a RMA, they'll give you whatever card is at the pricepoint(when they bought it) of your old card as it's replacement! There's been a few people who've sent in 5900 Ultra's and got back 6800's and 7800's.

There is NO ATi company with a warranty like that, bar none.

Me personally, dont care about warranties that much when overclocking. Its a chance that you are taking, getting the best of out the component you can. There is a risk of killing it. To get best results, vmods are required. This will mark the card sometimes, if traces have to be cut etc.

Also getting the most out of gpu's require, sub zero cooling. Single phasers, cascades, DI and LN2 etc. The cards are going to be showing marks of insulation etc. Even when you take off the shim and things like that.

Tbh, if your gonig to overclock, mod something then you shouldnt be thinking about the warranty.

Eh, if a company offers a warranty on overclocking, then you should think about the warranty.

lol why does it really matter?

Why are you even complaining about warrenties on a forum named "XtremeSystems" that specializes in sub-zero cooling, voltage modification, and LN2?

Really though, it's not ATI or NVIDIA who come up with the warrenty. As you previously stated, it's EVGA and BFG with the warrenties, not NVIDIA.

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Now, back on topic, who has OCed the X1800XT 256MB? How does the OCed X1800XT compare with the 7800GTX 512MB?

I personally am not complaining, just pointing it out.

Both cards are good cards, and I wouldn't see a problem buying either any day of the week in this case. Don't know about you guys, but this round has been very interesting.

I can settle this discussion preety easy. I will order a the new x1800 card and let the orb speak for itself. Anybody up to the challenge?

no, but ill still challenge you to see who can get a higher score in the x1800xt battles. What cooling will you be using?

If you're down for benching your dual core @ 3.15, i'll run 3d @ stock and @ max stable settings with stock cooler and compare. The only thing we'd have to figure out is the ram.

i cannot reach 3.15 ghz i imagine. It's only an X2 3800, under water. Highest i've tried is 2.9ghz, which worked fine, but you can always clock yours down. I have less cache, but that wont effect 3dmark much.

Cards under water ok with you? My ram clocks like crap under the stock cooler, cos of those stupid insulator pads they put on it.

RAM...well my teamgroup can run up to about 265mhz or so, not that great a pair. If you're mushkins can make 260mhz, i can easily loosen latencies to 2.5-3-3-6 or whatever, i doubt having 2x1gb vs. 2x512 will make much difference. Or perhaps you have some bh5 lying around you can use?

I always feel benchmarks at dawn is the best way to determine something like this. What shall we do, 3dmark05 & 06. And no LOD or anything, put it down to the graphics alone, to make it fair.

Althought this is xtremesystems, ATI releasing the 1800 xt 256 to fight the 7900 gt, is an action by ATI not to fight for the hardcore enthusiest(like the original 7800 gtx 512), it for the mainstream audience that want great performance for the money and would probaly leave the card stock.

If we are going to get into LN2 and Dry Ice, I think we are going for bragging rights at all cost and we are going to go for a gtx or a 1900 xtx or xt. Sure it might be fun to have a ln2 midlevel card, but your not going to get records besides maybe in that category of card.

I think something bad needs to happen to ati so they change their ways. Ati

1. nVidia GF7 and X18/X19 are both very good very fast cards for sure. No doubt you can get top 3DMarks with X1900XTX and good w/c.
2. But, when looking at mainstream you should remember that most reviews show only "reference" 7900GT, whereas for the same price, most people are buying 10-15% pre-overclocked.
3. Although some reviews include X1800XT and it performs very closely to 7800GTX and 7900GT, some situation at high resolutions like FEAR, COD2, and BF2, might have lead mostly due to 512MB. The 512MB X1800XT costs a lot more than the 256MB X1800XT being now introduced at $300.
4. My favorite part about 7900GT is the "fun" factor that unlean mentioned. The core is identical to 7900GTX, so you get to play around with different voltage, cooling and timings, to get it to GTX level (or higher!). No matter how or how high you overclock X1800XT, you will NEVER turn it into a X1900... they are simply different chips.

any news on R570? Heard supposed to be as good as X1800XT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

Eh, if a company offers a warranty on overclocking, then you should think about the warranty.

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Powercolor offers a lifetime warrenty, just like EVGA.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131005

Quote:

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No matter how or how high you overclock X1800XT, you will NEVER turn it into a X1900... they are simply different chips.

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I beg to differ. with the x1800xt's superior clock speeds the x1900xtx is no match for it in 3d 01...

And i would use whatever i have in my arsenal for cooling within the limits of it being a 24/7 setup so no DI. that should be the way we do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

Eh, if a company offers a warranty on overclocking, then you should think about the warranty.

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Why are are you so fussed about the Warranty?

This is XS. Hell most people who will happen to kill there card from overclocking, will of done volts mods, and using soemthing other than stock cooling. You can't send a card back with physical volt mods now can you.

lol..this is indeed XS, BUT not everybody are the same, i am sure there is a minority who canot afford to overlook the warranty...so dats why its fussed about. like me, i love computer HW, but i canot afford to get them killed n ahve to buy a new one...imagine, some of us only get a change of HW only every 6 months to 1 yr....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hicks

Why are are you so fussed about the Warranty?

This is XS. Hell most people who will happen to kill there card from overclocking, will of done volts mods, and using soemthing other than stock cooling. You can't send a card back with physical volt mods now can you.

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I don't volt mod, you can put back on a stock cooler with ease, I don't do extreme cooling...

I care very much about a warranty actually.

Also shadow, EVGA have been known to send advanced exchanges, powercolor doesn't cover overclocking and bios flashes either. Only normal usage.. This is a biggggg difference.

EVGA covers literally EVERYTHING except physical damage!

It's a fine dividing line between what goes on the 3dmark forum and what goes on the video forum but when you get to talking about warranties I think this thread needs to be moved.

With 3d benching nothing is guarranteed :D That's why it is so much fun.

Regards

Andy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

Ati has really screwed up last year not only with releasing in low quantities, but there policies. Not only did they give up the 3 year warrenty to 1 year, they also screwed over anyone that bought a 1800xt, by releasing a much better product 3 months later with no incentive to upgrade( a la EVGA).

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well, that sure sounds like bs to me:slapass:
think about dudes who bought 512mb 7800GTX-s for like 1000 dollars per card and now think that u can buy 7900GTX for 499 dollars..
so did ATi really screw something up or did nVIDIA?
think before u say

If that $1000 card was an evga, they now walk off with TWO 7900GTX's(step-up)... So who got screwed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

I don't volt mod, you can put back on a stock cooler with ease, I don't do extreme cooling...

I care very much about a warranty actually.

Also shadow, EVGA have been known to send advanced exchanges, powercolor doesn't cover overclocking and bios flashes either. Only normal usage.. This is a biggggg difference.

EVGA covers literally EVERYTHING except physical damage!

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Um, why is this a big deal? How will they detect overclocking and bios flashes if you just flash it back beforehand?

If you killed the card, it's impossible to flash back the bios, now isn't it? It isn't, however, impossible for them to check that bios chip(PNY/MSI is famous for this).

Generally, people don't RMA a card that isn't broken.

With ATI cards having voltage controllable via software, why is this an issue? Why is BIOS flashing needed?

I can see why it's an issue with NVIDIA cards, as you need to flash the BIOS to softmod voltage, as well as delta clocks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chew*

I beg to differ. with the x1800xt's superior clock speeds the x1900xtx is no match for it in 3d 01...

And i would use whatever i have in my arsenal for cooling within the limits of it being a 24/7 setup so no DI. that should be the way we do it.

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http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/.../index.php?p=3
x1800xt = 625
x1900xtx = 650
looks quite different from here

Quote:

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Generally, people don't RMA a card that isn't broken.

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you'd be surprised. Some folks get so hyper excited about getting a 6200, when they get it home they rip open the box, strip the case, and try to cram it into the mobo, only to find out PCIE cards dont fit in AGP.
Not to mention the hundreds of forum accounts of folks RMA card because it beeps (forgot to plug in molex), very poor performance (switching from ATI/nVidia not cleaning drivers, chipset drivers), instability issues (using 300W PSU supplied with case for 6800u).

The stupidity I've read about and seen first hand, boggles the mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shadowmage

With ATI cards having voltage controllable via software, why is this an issue? Why is BIOS flashing needed?

I can see why it's an issue with NVIDIA cards, as you need to flash the BIOS to softmod voltage, as well as delta clocks.

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X1800XT to X1800XTPE anybody? Which, might I add, is a very popular thing for x1800xt owners on this site.

You guys have turned this into EVGA 7900gt vs x1800xt :rolleyes: Which is obviously not the case. It is 7900gt vs x1800xt obviously. You guys are singling out manufacturers which you can't really do when comparing gpus from a who's the better company (NV vs. ATi)

To winter knight. The whole purpose of the 7800 gtx 512 was to use it as a marketing device to crap on ATI release. It wasn't very honorable thing to do, but when they released the gtx 512 it was done on a very small scale and purely for the enthusiast that wanted bleeding edge hardware in which it was. Not only was the card the fastest on the market, it was rare as hell which is why it commanded such a high price, 1000 was not the price those and you just over inflated that number. This card was for people who wanted the best score regardless of whether or not it was going to be obsolete soon or replaced. This will be the same with the quad sli board which will also be rare as hell. What I said about ATI's warrenty still stands they abandoned there customer when they reduced there warrenty. Company should try to improve there level of service not decrease it over time

Plus the release period between the gtx 512 and the 7900 gtx was significantly longer than that between the 1800 xt and the 7900 gtx.

Also we should use the best card from each so I agree on using the EVGA, mainly because it is the same price as a the non overclocked one, and it is typically in stock which makes buying a non over clocked one from the likes of MSI useless. Unless you want to rip yourself off because of some principles that dont make sense.

Also warrenty doesn't matter for alot of people on this site.
Did ati compensate in anyways from decreasing there warrenty. Not really, did the price of there video cards go down which is a benefit all of us can enjoy. No they did not, they did it to make more money for themselves by cutting costs in warrenty and service.

Not only that, their company of origin, Canada, gets charged more for their cards than the united states which is pretty bad for a company.

On water alone the x1800xt does 823/981 which we all know clock speed versus technology wins in 01. You are hard pressed to do that with a x1900xtx also note its an xtx........I think the reason is due to the fact that higher clocks are achievable with less pixels shader pipelines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

X1800XT to X1800XTPE anybody? Which, might I add, is a very popular thing for x1800xt owners on this site.

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Can't do that with the X1800 256MB, which is the card under discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

X1800XT to X1800XTPE anybody? Which, might I add, is a very popular thing for x1800xt owners on this site.

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Hehe, well said ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

If you killed the card, it's impossible to flash back the bios, now isn't it?

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No it isn't. In most cases you could flash blind or with arties, and in the cases the card is so borked the pc doesn't boot with it, you can use a PCI card.

The change that a card is so borked that the EEPROM is not accesible anymore is very, very small. The cases that this happens it's often also hard for the manufactorer to get any data from the EEPROM.

this thread has decayed into typical www.rage3d.com bickering. -_-

Where is the "xtremesystems" life and soul? Why hasn't anybody posted pics of their vmod to stop this insanity?

They can remove the chip, ask anyone who's ever tried to rma a PNY card with a flashed bios what they tell them....

If the card is physically dead, you cannot flash it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

this thread has decayed into typical www.rage3d.com bickering. -_-

Where is the "xtremesystems" life and soul? Why hasn't anybody posted pics of their vmod to stop this insanity?

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So true... you should say "typical EOCF bickering" though... :slapass:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

If the card is physically dead, you cannot flash it.

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In a few cases you can i think. Just use masking tape to mask out all unnessecary pins unless the EEPROM ones and boot witha PCI card.

And in theory you should also be able to hotflash the card if the above doesn't work :D