AMD To Change Focus Away From Desktop Chips

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03-06-2006, 08:52 PM
agenda2005

AMD To Change Focus Away From Desktop Chips

This is getting interesting as Hector Ruiz is indirectly accepting defeat of their flagship FX60 and the upcoming FX-62 even before Conroe appears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgdaily

Dena Point (CA) - During a meeting of financial and technology analysts, AMD chairman and CEO Hector Ruiz told an audience he would be willing to pare down his company's consumer market segments, including high-performance desktop PCs, in order to devote more energy to growing the company's lucrative, high-quantity commercial processor market.

Details here for those who reflect.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/06/am...uld_be_traded/

The most interesting thing about the news is that Hector Ruiz is basically BSing the enthusiast who spend tons of money, thousands of dollar buying the FX chip as can be descened from this statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgdaily

What determines ASP for these markets for AMD, Ruiz went on to explain, is the various mix of products it sells within that space. The biggest impact on total ASP, he said, is the mix of products sold within the respective markets. "As you look at, for example, a gaming chip that sells for $1,000, or a server product that sells for $1,000," he remarked, "then [compare] the mix of those products relative to the value space [where AMD is strong] that might sell for $60-75. That's a huge impact on the overall ASP. So one of the emphasis that we have right now is to gain, as rapidly as we can, on those spaces where ASP improvement can be very rapid. For us, the #1 place is the server. Our growth on the server will be a factor for some quarters to come, and we think that as we make that a bigger part of our portfolio, we will drive the average ASP mix up."

What Hector Ruiz is basically saying is that they get little from the sale of FX, but most from Sempron and Server Opteron chips. So it's totally okay to abaadon those sector(FX and high clock A64s) and concentrate on more valuable ones(Opteron and Sempron).

This is a pathetic time to be an AMD fanboy. thank goodness I'm not a fanboy.
Well FX-60, X2 4800+, 4400+ X2 and the likes are going to have a hard time selling at high prices when Conroe lands, especially the E6600 with Dual core at 2.4GHZ, 4MB L2 cache and 1066MHZ FSB. E6600 at $329 is basically going to equal if not hammer the FX-60 that sell for over $1000 now.

Good luck AMD, you've had you good days milking money from guys selling those CPU at skyrocketted prices.

No problem, bi-directional Hypertransport will still give you lead over Intel old FSB technology in 2,4 and 8 way servers. While Semprons are doing well in China, India and even here in the US, since you can get a complete system with Sepron for $199 after rebate at CompUSA.
03-06-2006, 08:54 PM
Pinnacle

Interesting
03-06-2006, 09:02 PM
thunderstruck!

Very true. AMD has had a nice run with s939, but I fear these little performance jumps for a huge cost, like am2, will not be very appealing for the long run. Intel might finally have a lead.
03-06-2006, 09:16 PM
ben805

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Very true. AMD has had a nice run with s939, but I fear these little performance jumps for a huge cost, like am2, will not be very appealing for the long run. Intel might finally have a lead.

performance jumps? :D there's an AM2 article at tomshardware and from what I've read there's no gain whatsoever to go from s939 to AM2 platform, the new socket clock about the same, their DDR2 benchmark wasn't impressive at all, so untill we see much tighter timing or higher clock otherwise DD2 ain't going to outperform DDR1 anytime soon, beside...other than for benchmarking purposes we're not lacking in memory bandwidth, and there's very little (if any) productive applications or games could take advantage of the extra bandwidth. For now I'm just going to wait and see how everything turns out but I do not see myself dumping the s939 for AM2 anytime soon, s939 and DDR1 are as mature as they can be, I have a feeling the AM2 platform ain't gonna last too long either :D :D and of course...all this mumbo jumbo is just IMO. ;)

by the way....interesting read but, I think this thread belongs to the news section.
03-06-2006, 09:27 PM
Major

http://news.com.com/Strike%20three%2....dailytech.com
03-06-2006, 09:28 PM
dogsx2

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben805

by the way....interesting read but, I think this thread belongs to the news section.

Yep..Yep..Yep:)
03-06-2006, 09:32 PM
agenda2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderstruck!

Very true. AMD has had a nice run with s939, but I fear these little performance jumps for a huge cost, like am2, will not be very appealing for the long run. Intel might finally have a lead.

If AM2 performs better than S939, trust AMD! They will get them higher PR rating and not the same rating as S939 at the same clock speed. Look at Athlon XP at 2.2GHz was rated 3200+ and A64 at 2.0GHz have the same 3200+ rating.
That was simply because of the improvements that A64 brought. By all indication if DDR2 will bring any improvement to AM2, then the PR rating would have been increased at the same clockspeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben805

by the way....interesting read but, I think this thread belongs to the news section.

Sorry:slobber: Mods can move the thread to the news section.
03-06-2006, 09:40 PM
dinos22

much easier to concentrate on cash cows I guess.

i don't mind moving to Intel from all the goodies we've been seeing lately.....bring it on..........the only fanboyism i have is with performance....don't care what stickers are on the box :D
03-06-2006, 09:43 PM
agenda2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major

http://news.com.com/Strike%20three%2....dailytech.com

Major,
Those are the Server and Sempron(Consumer market) sectors that AMD is making good gains and trying to focus their attention on. Which is a good strategy, but as for those of you that buys $1000 FX chips, they longer give a damn about you. That is the message that Hector Ruiz is sending out to you guys.
Overall AMD is making money from volume sales from Sempron and Opteron, but too many RMA and low volume for enthusiast chips are just not interesting to them anymore.
Hector Ruiz even mentioned that they are better off using some of their silicon to produce Semprons rather than FX chips that won't sell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgdaily

"If we find a place where we might have a challenge in meeting some of the demands," Ruiz concluded, "[it] might be in some segments of the consumer space. For example, a lot of the products that we use to serve the very high end of the desktop market might be products that might be better used and redirected to serve segments of commercial or server. In that sense, we might be tight in those regards. But it will be a year in which the balance between demand and capacity will be carefully managed quarter by quarter."

Don't be suprise when they AMD themselves start to remark some of those excess inventory of FX-60 to X2 3800+ X2 4400+ and selling them damn chip. Remember the remark 3500+ Newcastles that overclock to FX-55 level sometimes ago.
03-06-2006, 09:45 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by agenda2005

What Hector Ruiz is basically saying is that they get little from the sale of FX, but most from Sempron and Server Opteron chips. So it's totally okay to abaadon those sector(FX and high clock A64s) and concentrate on more valuable ones(Opteron and Sempron).

This is a pathetic time to be an AMD fanboy. thank goodness I'm not a fanboy.

you put it as a bad thing. why? if this pans out, all the chips that would normally go into the high end line will go into cheaper, more value oriented chips, and we'll be back to days similar to the 2500+ barton, no? if anything, it's as good a time as ever to be excited :toast:
03-06-2006, 09:56 PM
agenda2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

you put it as a bad thing. why? if this pans out, all the chips that would normally go into the high end line will go into cheaper, more value oriented chips, and we'll be back to days similar to the 2500+ barton, no? if anything, it's as good a time as ever to be excited :toast:

Well, its good news for us consumers as I explain in post #9.

My reference to the fanboys having a bad time is about their attitude that AMD is always better than Intel, irrepective of the performance number.

Unfortunately, AMD is about bussiness and don't give a sh*t about any fanboy.
It looks like they are going to loss out in the desktop battle which has contributed largely to their marketting campaign. Now that they know that its going to be a lost battle in that arena, which they are indirectly admitting too.

The tone we are now hearing is that they dont give a F**K about those fanboys who have been their supporters through their good runs with A64.
03-06-2006, 10:11 PM
mongoled

Hey agenda2005,

you seem to be talking alot more abt the 'fanboys' then the reason for posting this article. What ever will be will be, I see no point in all the fanboy talk other than stiring up emotions. XS to its credit has remained impartial when it comes to AMD v Intel, ofcourse fanboys exist here, but I believe I am correct in saying tht the majority of peeps here care mainly abt performance, rather than who is giving them the performance.

So id like to see less talk abt fanboys and more talk abt how this is going to effect the average XS member ;)
03-06-2006, 10:20 PM
agenda2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoled

Hey agenda2005,

you seem to be talking alot more abt the 'fanboys' then the reason for posting this article. What ever will be will be, I see no point in all the fanboy talk other than stiring up emotions. XS to its credit has remained impartial when it comes to AMD v Intel, ofcourse fanboys exist here, but I believe I am correct in saying tht the majority of peeps here care mainly abt performance, rather than who is giving them the performance.

So id like to see less talk abt fanboys and more talk abt how this is going to effect the average XS member ;)

Thanks for your thought. I own an AMD system(see my sig) and previously owned an AXP 2500+ as well. I know a lot of people here on XS care more about performance/$, performance/watt etc. I'm not in anyway referring to anybody been a fanboy, but soon, it sure will suck to be an AMD fanboy if you happen to be one now.
03-06-2006, 10:20 PM
Vapor

This is extremely interesting.....I don't doubt it, but I'd like to hear it from somewhere other than THG just to verify.

That said, I guess now would be the time to sell my 4400+ and buy stock? :lol: (hey, if Hector wants to only make money and not give the people what they want, I'll play his game)
03-06-2006, 10:26 PM
mesyn191

Quote:

Originally Posted by agenda2005

This is getting interesting as Hector Ruiz is indirectly accepting defeat of their flagship FX60 and the upcoming FX-62 even before Conroe appears.

Details here for those who reflect.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/06/am...uld_be_traded/

The most interesting thing about the news is that Hector Ruiz is basically BSing the enthusiast who spend tons of money, thousands of dollar buying the FX chip as can be descened from this statement.

What Hector Ruiz is basically saying is that they get little from the sale of FX, but most from Sempron and Server Opteron chips. So it's totally okay to abaadon those sector(FX and high clock A64s) and concentrate on more valuable ones(Opteron and Sempron).

Uh, all you did was put words in his mouth...

All that can be gotten from the above quotes is what we've known now for over a year, AMD is concentrating on server parts ATM to increase ASP. That is totally different from abandoning the high end and desktop chips altogether. Not once does he even mention anything about Conroe...

Mods please close topic, OP is prob a Intel fanboi posting flame bait....
03-06-2006, 10:32 PM
mesyn191

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben805

performance jumps? :D there's an AM2 article at tomshardware and from what I've read there's no gain whatsoever to go from s939 to AM2 platform, the new socket clock about the same, their DDR2 benchmark wasn't impressive at all, so untill we see much tighter timing or higher clock otherwise DD2 ain't going to outperform DDR1 anytime soon, beside...other than for benchmarking purposes we're not lacking in memory bandwidth, and there's very little (if any) productive applications or games could take advantage of the extra bandwidth. For now I'm just going to wait and see how everything turns out but I do not see myself dumping the s939 for AM2 anytime soon, s939 and DDR1 are as mature as they can be, I have a feeling the AM2 platform ain't gonna last too long either :D :D and of course...all this mumbo jumbo is just IMO. ;)

by the way....interesting read but, I think this thread belongs to the news section.

Um, Tom benched beta hardware on DDR2 667 RAM, AMD recommends DDR2 800 RAM to get a significant increase in performance over DDR400. Anyone remember when K7 was first launched? Review sites said it sucked cuz they benched beta hardware, but of course when the final stuff came to market it was a totally different story.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ew/default.asp

DDR2 doesn't need tighter timings, its like RDRAM, you want to push the clockspeed as much as possible....

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item=413&num=4

OP's commentary on what Ruiz said is total FUD...
03-06-2006, 10:35 PM
agenda2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesyn191

Uh, all you did was put words in his mouth...

All that can be gotten from the above quotes is what we've known now for over a year, AMD is concentrating on server parts ATM to increase ASP. That is totally different from abandoning the high end and desktop chips altogether. Not once does he even mention anything about Conroe...

Mods please close topic, OP is prob a Intel fanboi posting flame bait....

If you only have the time to check my threads/posts, most of them has been directed at exposing Intel's anti-computitive behaviour.
For example, see the thread I started here

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=68501

If I'm an Intel fanboy, then common wisdom should prove you otherwise.

I'm no fanboy and I have stated it several times on this forum. I am a "fanboy" (if you like it that way) of good performance/$ commodity. Period.
03-06-2006, 10:38 PM
mesyn191

Quote:

Originally Posted by agenda2005

Well, its good news for us consumers as I explain in post #9.

My reference to the fanboys having a bad time is about their attitude that AMD is always better than Intel, irrepective of the performance number.

Unfortunately, AMD is about bussiness and don't give a sh*t about any fanboy.
It looks like they are going to loss out in the desktop battle which has contributed largely to their marketting campaign. Now that they know that its going to be a lost battle in that arena, which they are indirectly admitting too.

The tone we are now hearing is that they dont give a F**K about those fanboys who have been their supporters through their good runs with A64.

They've said nothing like that at all, you're trying to read so much into what they're saying that you've become delusional.

AMD and Intel switch places all the time when it comes to being the performance leader due to differences in thier process and design schedules/releases. Sometimes AMD is on top, sometimes its Intel. I expect AMD to behind Intel when Conroe comes out much like last time when the 2.4C came out vs. AthlonXP though perhaps they might not do so poorly this time around by focusing on improving thier ASP's and getting FAB 36 online. Eventually Conroe will come to its EOL too, and I'd expect AMD to start to get a lead on Intel once again when that happens a few years down the road...
03-06-2006, 10:44 PM
mesyn191

Quote:

Originally Posted by agenda2005

If you only have the time to check my threads/posts, most of them has been directed at exposing Intel's anti-computitive behaviour.
For example, see the thread I started here

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=68501

If I'm an Intel fanboy, then common wisdom should prove you otherwise.

I'm no fanboy and I have stated it several times on this forum. I am a "fanboy" (if you like it that way) of good performance/$ commodity. Period.

Normally I give people the benefit of the doubt, but the stuff you said in the first post of this thread makes me question whatever else you've ever posted, its so out of line with what Ruiz said that I don't see how you could ever have come to your conclusions...
03-06-2006, 10:54 PM
ben805

who give a crap what AMD or Intel has to say....I mean really, just bring whatever they got on the table and let the numbers do the talking, until then...whomever make the best stuff(and affortable :D ) get my money! competition will only benefits consumer anyway, case closed. ;)
03-06-2006, 11:00 PM
Vapor

Some people invest in these companies....that's why it matters :p:
03-06-2006, 11:00 PM
mesyn191

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben805

who give a crap what AMD or Intel has to say....I mean really, just bring whatever they got on the table and let the numbers do the talking, until then...whomever make the best stuff(and affortable ) get my money! competition will only benefits consumer anyway, case closed

What are these forums for if not discussion?

Since all this hardware (conroe, AM2, etc.) is vapor at the moment anyways what else can we do with it but speculate about it...

nice of you to totally ignore what I posted above in response to your ealier comments too BTW...
03-06-2006, 11:01 PM
jsriolo

I don't think that he is in any way admitting defeat. If you read any article and finish it thinking that someone representing a company would be allowed to say anything negative then you should read it again. Actually, for this specific case, I can't find anything bad about AMD focusing on its server parts because that is where the Athlon64 came from in the first place. Hell, I have an Opteron in my machine now! They can develop that as much as they want and I'll be happy.

Going off topic a little bit it seems that each market segment has traditionally been a cut down version of another one. Laptops have been cut down desktop CPU's and desktops are cut down server CPUs. AMD would seem to be continuing this strategy which has clearly been working for them while Intel are the ones deviating from this model with an ass-backwards mobile based architecture. Weather or not this strategy works out for intel remains to be seen, but AMD certainly does need some competition to force them to release some better products. The amount of innovation lately has been a bit behind what it could be with compeditive products from both companies.
03-06-2006, 11:12 PM
Shadowmage

Anyways, does it matter? Opterons are cheaper and overclock better.
03-06-2006, 11:24 PM
ben805

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesyn191

What are these forums for if not discussion?

Since all this hardware (conroe, AM2, etc.) is vapor at the moment anyways what else can we do with it but speculate about it...

nice of you to totally ignore what I posted above in response to your ealier comments too BTW...

what you'd posted were available on those and some other sites already, they mean absolutely nothing other than midnight entertainment and stir up senseless discussion, heh....speculate, fantasize, Whatever floats your boat man. Have fun and keep up with the discussion....I've got some real world hardwares to test and overclock, don't even know why I bother to waste my time to reply....stupid me. :slap:
03-06-2006, 11:30 PM
mesyn191

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben805

what you'd posted were available on those and some other sites already, they mean absolutely nothing other than midnight entertainment and stir up senseless discussion, heh....speculate, fantasize, Whatever floats your boat man. Have fun and keep up with the discussion....I've got some real world hardwares to test and overclock, don't even know why I bother to waste my time to reply....stupid me. :slap:

You say they mean nothing yet you used them to form the opinion that DDR2 and/or socket AM2 isn't worth it vs DDR/socket 939 ATM? Seems to be a case of cognative dissonance if I ever saw one...

"performance jumps? there's an AM2 article at tomshardware and from what I've read there's no gain whatsoever to go from s939 to AM2 platform, the new socket clock about the same, their DDR2 benchmark wasn't impressive at all, so untill we see much tighter timing or higher clock otherwise DD2 ain't going to outperform DDR1 anytime soon,"
03-06-2006, 11:46 PM
Charles Wirth

Easy guys,

We can read the quotes from the meeting notes and take it different ways fromTHG. If somene could post the entire meeting notes would be most helpful.

It doesnt sound good for AMD enthusiasts.
03-07-2006, 12:08 AM
urbanfox

Quote:

Originally Posted by agenda2005

This is getting interesting as Hector Ruiz is indirectly accepting defeat of their flagship FX60 and the upcoming FX-62 even before Conroe appears.

Details here for those who reflect.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/06/am...uld_be_traded/

The most interesting thing about the news is that Hector Ruiz is basically BSing the enthusiast who spend tons of money, thousands of dollar buying the FX chip as can be descened from this statement.

What Hector Ruiz is basically saying is that they get little from the sale of FX, but most from Sempron and Server Opteron chips. So it's totally okay to abaadon those sector(FX and high clock A64s) and concentrate on more valuable ones(Opteron and Sempron).

This is a pathetic time to be an AMD fanboy. thank goodness I'm not a fanboy.
Well FX-60, X2 4800+, 4400+ X2 and the likes are going to have a hard time selling at high prices when Conroe lands, especially the E6600 with Dual core at 2.4GHZ, 4MB L2 cache and 1066MHZ FSB. E6600 at $329 is basically going to equal if not hammer the FX-60 that sell for over $1000 now.

Good luck AMD, you've had you good days milking money from guys selling those CPU at skyrocketted prices.

No problem, bi-directional Hypertransport will still give you lead over Intel old FSB technology in 2,4 and 8 way servers. While Semprons are doing well in China, India and even here in the US, since you can get a complete system with Sepron for $199 after rebate at CompUSA.

I think you're interpeting what he said in a different light.

Before anyone goes bonkers on AMD admitting defeat, you first must look at 1) what he's saying (duh) and 2) his audience.

Sounds to me he's just saying they need to focus more on the server market, especially since Intel's domination in this area is falling (or gone?).
03-07-2006, 12:15 AM
guess2098

about a month or two ago... i said keep your S939 til end of this year
hehehehe

saw many samples....
03-07-2006, 01:36 AM
MaxxxRacer

agenda2005, I gotta say that you drew WAY WAY WAY too much from those quotes.. Your comments on what Ruiz said really have no basis of fact...

you are essentailly taking someones words and placing whatever meaning you deem convenient for your soap box onto them..
03-07-2006, 02:03 AM
enno

I don't think the AM2 will make the bandwidth much better, what I had seen from the review, DDR2 just made a little difference with DDR. If you're wanting to buy a new PC with AM2 it still can be a choice but if you want to upgrade from 939 I think it is not worth it.
03-07-2006, 04:05 AM
biohead

Let's wait till we know who won the lawsuit. I hope AMD. DDR2 sucks in comparison. They need DDR3 to be worth an upgrade and they know it. It's closer than you think.
03-07-2006, 05:27 AM
agenda2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

agenda2005, I gotta say that you drew WAY WAY WAY too much from those quotes.. Your comments on what Ruiz said really have no basis of fact...

you are essentailly taking someones words and placing whatever meaning you deem convenient for your soap box onto them..

I have right to my own opinion as long as I don't infringe on anyones right. I also don't bloody care how anyone perceive it.

I have given AMD credit where credit is due and i wish them all the success they can get. It's also important to know that I have scold Intel whenever the need arises. So I owe nobody any apology about my opinion.

People invest money in stock market and care about how well these companies progress, that is the more reason why Mr. Ruiz was saying all those sweet talks to their investors.

Does Mr. Ruiz give a damn about the "Commericial space", basically high end desktop? Very little I suppose. So why arguing over silicon calling yourself a fanboy?
03-07-2006, 05:35 AM
M.Beier

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohead

Let's wait till we know who won the lawsuit. I hope AMD. DDR2 sucks in comparison. They need DDR3 to be worth an upgrade and they know it. It's closer than you think.

... Yeah, but I still wonder why AMD fu*ked up and went for DDR2, I'd always considered best changing from DDR straight to DDR3... - But seems like they dont want that...
The last roadmap 'till end of 2007, showed NOTHING about DDR3, which scares the guts out of me..
03-07-2006, 05:40 AM
perkam

You have your opinion Agenda, but pls do not integrate it into the title.

Title Changed.

Everyone is free to follow the links and make their own conclusions.

Perkam
03-07-2006, 06:09 AM
Bar81

Shouldn't it be you have your agenda, agenda?

Anyway, this is another mountain out of a molehill. AMD wants to concentrate on the volume and high margin items, how is this shocking? I'm sure AMD is just going to stop trying in the desktop arena [/sarcasm]
03-07-2006, 07:00 AM
Elisha

why does everyone keep pointing out the THG review?
how often has THG been true?
those guys need a lesson in benching.
03-07-2006, 08:00 AM
turtle

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.Beier

... Yeah, but I still wonder why AMD fu*ked up and went for DDR2, I'd always considered best changing from DDR straight to DDR3... - But seems like they dont want that...
The last roadmap 'till end of 2007, showed NOTHING about DDR3, which scares the guts out of me..

Agreed. I've also been one to notice this and think it's not going to be worth upgrading (from 939) until DDR3...Been saying this forever. Although, I can't completely count my chickens until the DDR2 cas3 @ reasonable speed chicken has hatched (if it ever does before DDR2 dies). Using lower latency ram is where AMD has showed it's strengths before, and may do it again. But then again, by the time DDR3 hits, latency may be less important and pure bandwidth may matter most...Which may up helping Intel. I guess we'll see.

While I think conclusions were drawn on by the OP, I do believe AMD has commented this is the case...I swear I read an interview somewhere recently stating they were concentrating on improving areas other than the mainstream desktop CPU's in the near future. It would make sense that Sempron and Opteron would be the biggest areas of focus, as they are indeed the bread and butter.
03-07-2006, 08:25 AM
largon

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.Beier

... Yeah, but I still wonder why AMD fu*ked up and went for DDR2, I'd always considered best changing from DDR straight to DDR3... - But seems like they dont want that...
The last roadmap 'till end of 2007, showed NOTHING about DDR3, which scares the guts out of me..

What's so great about DDR3?

DDR3 will bring nothing but more and more bandwidth. We all know K8 doesn't care about b/w. AMD will have to design a new arhcitechture that can use that bandwidth, it would be utterly pointless to use DDR3 with current architechture.

What comes to DDR2... DDR2 is not any slower nor does it cause higher latency than DDR1. Yes, the number latency is expressed is higher, but it's just a number. Higher frequency shortens the time clock tick takes, this means absolute latency is equal or even lower than on DDR1.
03-07-2006, 08:36 AM
nn_step

Same move did in the past.. but no worries
03-07-2006, 08:55 AM
HelloIDistance

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

you put it as a bad thing. why? if this pans out, all the chips that would normally go into the high end line will go into cheaper, more value oriented chips, and we'll be back to days similar to the 2500+ barton, no? if anything, it's as good a time as ever to be excited :toast:

Ahh I really miss the days of buying an $80 2500+ Barton and having a great overclocker, those were the real price / performance ratio times.

This is interesting though, I never owned an Intel system since P2 and P3 days, but as many have said I don't care about the name on the box, I care about performance. Maybe my next upgrade (Probably in a year :rolleyes:) will be Intel. Very interested to see Intel and AMDs next move!
03-07-2006, 09:06 AM
onewingedangel

Even if they concentrate on other markets as long as they dont run out of supplies in the desktop space whats the problem?

You know your going to be going after opterons anyway....
03-07-2006, 09:35 AM
mikenam

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinos22

much easier to concentrate on cash cows I guess.

i don't mind moving to Intel from all the goodies we've been seeing lately.....bring it on..........the only fanboyism i have is with performance....don't care what stickers are on the box :D

my thought exactly.
03-07-2006, 12:40 PM
urbanfox

Quote:

Originally Posted by agenda2005

Does Mr. Ruiz give a damn about the "Commericial space", basically high end desktop? Very little I suppose. So why arguing over silicon calling yourself a fanboy?

One of the BIGGEST, if not the most important aspect of analyzing a business speech is who is the intended audience. I think you failed to remember that.
03-07-2006, 10:35 PM
Captin Insano

There is NOTHING the AMD fans have to worry about. first of all if the issue was to remove these items from the products they carry we wouldnt see them ramp up to a new facillity capable of 65nm or make the moves they have made with dual core and ect. There is so much untold that cant be told right at this moment. Thg is another know rag of not so many truths. I never listen to anything they say. Right now all I can say is that What he ment in his stament was a ramping up of the parts he mentioned to become competitive on other playing feilds. Like budget desktops with sempron and server market with opterons. Nothing effecting the "enthusist area". Try not to take the statments out of context. All I can say is wait and see. I can tell you if your an AMD Fanboy you wont be dissapointed.
03-08-2006, 04:18 AM
biohead

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

What's so great about DDR3?

DDR3 will bring nothing but more and more bandwidth. We all know K8 doesn't care about b/w. AMD will have to design a new arhcitechture that can use that bandwidth, it would be utterly pointless to use DDR3 with current architechture.

What comes to DDR2... DDR2 is not any slower nor does it cause higher latency than DDR1. Yes, the number latency is expressed is higher, but it's just a number. Higher frequency shortens the time clock tick takes, this means absolute latency is equal or even lower than on DDR1.

DDR3 latencies have been cut in half lately.
03-08-2006, 05:05 AM
WeStSiDePLaYa

conroe is still six months away, which is a lifetime in tech.
03-08-2006, 05:12 AM
M.Beier

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

What's so great about DDR3?

DDR3 will bring nothing but more and more bandwidth. We all know K8 doesn't care about b/w. AMD will have to design a new arhcitechture that can use that bandwidth, it would be utterly pointless to use DDR3 with current architechture.

What comes to DDR2... DDR2 is not any slower nor does it cause higher latency than DDR1. Yes, the number latency is expressed is higher, but it's just a number. Higher frequency shortens the time clock tick takes, this means absolute latency is equal or even lower than on DDR1.

Latency ;)
03-08-2006, 06:11 AM
largon

biohead, M.Beier,
For example Elpida's DDR3 1600 @ CL7 (8.75ns)... Doesn't seem that much faster than plain DDR2: 666MHz @ CL3 (9ns)

DDR3 sure gives a boatload of b/w, but what good is it if it's useless to the chip? I doubt even the quad core AM2's coming around Q1'07 won't be very starved for b/w.
At least until K8L comes, it might put that huge b/w into use.
03-08-2006, 08:30 AM
biohead

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

biohead, M.Beier,
For example Elpida's DDR3 1600 @ CL7 (8.75ns)... Doesn't seem that much faster than plain DDR2: 666MHz @ CL3 (9ns)

DDR3 sure gives a boatload of b/w, but what good is it if it's useless to the chip? I doubt even the quad core AM2's coming around Q1'07 won't be very starved for b/w.
At least until K8L comes, it might put that huge b/w into use.

DDR3 has been very improved lately, you're using a crap DDR3 chip as an example, that's like saying that DDR is bad, using DDR400 3-4-4-8 as an example.. now look how good it has become.
03-08-2006, 09:01 AM
krille

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohead

DDR3 has been very improved lately, you're using a crap DDR3 chip as an example, that's like saying that DDR is bad, using DDR400 3-4-4-8 as an example.. now look how good it has become.

Then direct us to some better ICs! :)
03-08-2006, 08:31 PM
Aerlix

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

conroe is still six months away, which is a lifetime in tech.

THANKYOU!

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