New build.. Model: ZRK (Zalman Reserator Killer!)

Just got my hands on this awsome radiator for my coming project (The ZRK)

I don`t like noise, but i do like overclocking, so passive watercooling suites me good. I have much expirience with passive systems, and all the hardware from my last project will be used "High MB temps? Cool your MOSFET`s and SFF R60 chokes "

The new radiator messure: 40cm x 35cm x 25cm and have 5mm between the fins, so it`s a good contender :fact:

http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?ac...=post&id=56489
http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?ac...=post&id=56494

Thats a big rad :o

Very little tubular surface area though. :(

so what was that radiotor's original purpose in life?

OT: have you given up posting at dfi-street, I saw THunDA getting on you about pic sizes.................

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Originally Posted by racinjimy

so what was that radiotor's original purpose in life?

OT: have you given up posting at dfi-street, I saw THunDA getting on you about pic sizes.................

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It`s originally a vaporiser from a cooling system (the one`s you`ll see at grocery stores -> meat section)

OT: Yes I know, but I`m too lazy to resize and edit all the post`s *sorry THunDA*. It`s not my mainforum anyway. Mostly attending the forum @hw.no anyways

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Very little tubular surface area though. :(

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Didn`t you see the big nice pipes on the picture?! :D

If you count, you`ll see that it is 24 pipes with the lengt of 40cm running trought the radiator, the pipes them self is 13mm.. That`s a whole lot of tubular surface area if you ask me :)

A Powerful pump is suitable for that Radiator

Which pump are you to use?

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Originally Posted by Zenjirou

A Powerful pump is suitable for that Radiator

Which pump are you to use?

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Eheim 1250...Centrifugal pump
Pump output 1200 l/h 264 lmp. gal./h. 7317 U.S. gal./h.
Delivery head 2,00 m/wat.col. 6 ft. 7 in./wat.col.
Power consumption 28 W
Hose connection (suction side) Ø17mm (3/4")
Hose connection (pressure side) Ø13mm (1/2")
Dimensions: lenght x width x height 180 x 95 x 120 7.1 x 3.8 x 4.7 in.

Better off with a D5.

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Originally Posted by koei

Better off with a D5.

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No he's not, the heatdumps of D5's are unecessarily large for his passive setup. However, a Laing DDC would be a better choice than the eheim. Smaller, less heatdump, more head pressure = better flow/lower temps/smaller footprint.

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Originally Posted by EnJoY

No he's not, the heatdumps of D5's are unecessarily large for his passive setup. However, a Laing DDC would be a better choice than the eheim. Smaller, less heatdump, more head pressure = better flow/lower temps/smaller footprint.

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Link to product please?

Go to pumps on dangerden.com
The amount of tubing back through doesnt mean much. Your surface area is equal to the length thru X diameter of tubing X 3.1415
It's not as much as something with a huge amount of flat finned tubes.

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...5&cat=4&page=1

Why not get a giant car radiator? :P

^^^^

snag one of those 60$ race car rads and hook an iwaki to it and your set lol.

just mount the rad to the back of your desk.

( would have to offset it some so its not up against the desk )

lol nice radiator. hope it will performs well

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Originally Posted by ArcticOC

It`s originally a vaporiser from a cooling system (the one`s you`ll see at grocery stores -> meat section)

OT: Yes I know, but I`m too lazy to resize and edit all the post`s *sorry THunDA*. It`s not my mainforum anyway. Mostly attending the forum @hw.no anyways

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I can't read Norwegian.........................so keep us updated here or the kitten will die

:kittenhat

That Condensor will likely give unexpected high temps if used passively. Condensors like that are very thick, and are designed to be used with a high Static Pressure Fan. Passive Radiators usually Maximize their Frontal Surface Area, such as the Innovek's Konvect-O Matic or any Single Row Automobile Radiator

That Condensor will get best performance with a Silent 172mm fan, as that will allow more air to move completly through it, rather than move around its frontal Fins.

As with my Radiator, the pressure drop with large radiators is larger than expected. A single pass dual row heatercore style radiator like my Koyo Racecar rad with 167 Tubes, will have a lower Pressure drop than a Winding Tube Radiator.

Because it is a Winding Tube, every 180 Degree Twist in Copper tubing drastically reduces flow..and a Single 12V DC pump will not be able to yield enough GPM (will be less than sufficient for waterblocks)

A high Head Pressure AC Pump is needed to achieve the minimum flor rate sufficient for your Waterblocks.

hwen do you think you iwll have this done?

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Originally Posted by Zenjirou

That Condensor will likely give unexpected high temps if used passively. Condensors like that are very thick, and are designed to be used with a high Static Pressure Fan. Passive Radiators usually Maximize their Frontal Surface Area, such as the Innovek's Konvect-O Matic or any Single Row Automobile Radiator

That Condensor will get best performance with a Silent 172mm fan, as that will allow more air to move completly through it, rather than move around its frontal Fins.

As with my Radiator, the pressure drop with large radiators is larger than expected. A single pass dual row heatercore style radiator like my Koyo Racecar rad with 167 Tubes, will have a lower Pressure drop than a Winding Tube Radiator.

Because it is a Winding Tube, every 180 Degree Twist in Copper tubing drastically reduces flow..and a Single 12V DC pump will not be able to yield enough GPM (will be less than sufficient for waterblocks)

A high Head Pressure AC Pump is needed to achieve the minimum flor rate sufficient for your Waterblocks.

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I think your wrong at many points and right on one (the pump)

Do rember that the cooler has an extremly large surface area, combine that with the huge tubular area and I have struck gold :)

The main thing that separates my rad from yours is the large gap between the fins (5-6mm). This makes the rad extremely well suited running passive.. The airflow has minimal resistance when moving trought the wide fins! There is no need for a fan, and when the project is finished and running proof will come (failing is not an option ;) )

Yes I do need a powerful pump, but with pipes @13mm the negative effect of180deg turns is minimized. The pump I`m buying has 0,2bar pressure and I belive that is plenty :D

But thanx for the feedback anyway!

The one inefficient part that I see is that in a car radiator, the water is flowing through the fins - in this design, very little of the pipe is actually covered by heatsinks.

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Originally Posted by Overconfidence

The one inefficient part that I see is that in a car radiator, the water is flowing through the fins - in this design, very little of the pipe is actually covered by heatsinks.

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It`all about surface area, and I have plenty. Look one more time and you`ll see that the tubes is completly covered by the fins, do you see any copper between the fins? ;)

hark, is it 2002?
ehiem 1250s have anemic pressure next to anything but a CSP-Mag
the obscene quantity of sharp 180 degree bends, at any inner diameter, will destroy flow. One is bad enough, much less 24 (by my count). on a 1250, flowrates with that rad will be in the "is the water moving...?" range. hopefully.
Its a nice condenser, not radiator.

plenty of surface area, but plenty of 180 bends. even though their 13mm wide, you're still going to need quite a beastly pump to get water at decent rates

Hmmm
It has Multiple Sides Open for Air to Convect. Yet unlike automobile style Radiators, its not essentialy FLAT or relatively thin. Air may not reach the inside fins due to thickness. I'm sure that with even the most silent and slowest of 6" Fans will significantly improve performance, allowing air to move through its entire volume.

BTW-How many tubes are there?

hmm, hopefully it will work for you, good luck!

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Originally Posted by mindwreck

plenty of surface area, but plenty of 180 bends. even though their 13mm wide, you're still going to need quite a beastly pump to get water at decent rates

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If the resistance get too high for my pump I just run the pipes in paralelle, some soldering and = everthing OK! :)

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Originally Posted by ArcticOC

If the resistance get too high for my pump I just run the pipes in paralelle, some soldering and = everthing OK! :)

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some soldering... lol, what an understatment!! :toast:

ArcticOC,
Are you going to make a chimney setup? Its frame sure makes it look like it was meant for one.

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

ArcticOC,
Are you going to make a chimney setup? Its frame sure makes it look like it was meant for one.

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That is quite correct, your a smart mthrfc*r ;) (pulp fiction qoute)

Too all of you that doubt in my soldering skills.. no need to worry, you`ll all be suprised :toast:

Did you decide to go with the Laing DDC I linked you to, or did you stick with the Eheim?

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Originally Posted by EnJoY

Did you decide to go with the Laing DDC I linked you to, or did you stick with the Eheim?

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Only Eheim is sold here in norway :(

whats a chimney setup?

and i dont doubt your soldering skills at all, ive seen your aircooled rig.

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Originally Posted by Revv23

whats a chimney setup?

and i dont doubt your soldering skills at all, ive seen your aircooled rig.

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that thing is a work of passive cooling art

ArcticOC, as others have correctly pointed out, the condensor you choose is very poorly suited for watercooling duty and even more poorly suited for passive duty.

The reasons it is a poor choice are outlined by other users so I wont waste my/your time re-writing them, but suffice to say you'd be better off with something else.

The all copper Koyo radiator that Zenjirou is using is one possible option taht would cool considerably better, although I'd have to disagree with Zenjirou opinion on an Iwaki being needed for any watercooling use. A DDC would work ok, just so long as you had a low flow optimized waterblock and werent looking for very good temps.

If kept indoors, Fan pushing air from bottom radiator through fins exhaust out of top might give good performance
If kept outside for cold Air chilld liquid... that would be amazing

subscribed :)

Go for it man. And post pics...

This shall be very interesting. Can't wait for more pics! :D

Hows this comming along. Any results on this yet? :)

Big!

I think that rad would be a good passive rad if you ran the the pipes in paralelle. Then it would have about the same design as this passive rad.

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Originally Posted by ArcticOC

Only Eheim is sold here in norway :(

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You could buy a regular DDC from microplex.no but I think you need something with more head like the DDC+ and you can't get one of those in Norway nor Sweden. You probably want a top mounted inlet barb to increase flow. Modding the standard top is one alternative, or you could buy a plexi top from Alphacool or Radiical which are built for it. Here's a test of the DDC, DDC+ and DDC+ with alphacools plexi top. The Radiical top probably performs even better than alphacools since it's got larger channels but I haven't seen any tests and I don't know where to get them except radiicals webshop in Australia. If you wan't to go extreme you could get 2x DDC+. Watercool.de makes a dual DDC plexi top but it's not suitable for DDC+ since they need lots of water at the inlet. Radical_53 is developing a high performance dual DDC+ top (for alphacool?) but you can't buy it yet.

If you get a DDC+ don't buy from Danger Den, they ship with FedEx which is about as expensive as it gets, you wont be able to avoid customs fees and they don't offer any tops with top inlet.
Here's a list of some DDC+ resellers in Europe:

• Alphacool - Germany
• Over-Clock.co.uk - United kingdom
• Vcore.dk - Denmark

bare så du vet det, mcp350 er det samme som DDC!

Well, thing have been kinda slow from my part lately, but at last I have started on the project.. :)

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

ArcticOC, as others have correctly pointed out, the condensor you choose is very poorly suited for watercooling duty and even more poorly suited for passive duty.

The reasons it is a poor choice are outlined by other users so I wont waste my/your time re-writing them, but suffice to say you'd be better off with something else.

The all copper Koyo radiator that Zenjirou is using is one possible option taht would cool considerably better, although I'd have to disagree with Zenjirou opinion on an Iwaki being needed for any watercooling use. A DDC would work ok, just so long as you had a low flow optimized waterblock and werent looking for very good temps.

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I have just started to work for a cooling company and the pumps we use for waterborn heat in houses easely let you run trough curcuits of 180meters or more. We only use danfoss pumps and they are amazingly quiet, easely beating eheim and others recomended in this forum in therms of noise;) The 180m statement in my replay is only @10mm inner Ø.. The only way to tell the pump is running is to take a skrewdriver and place it so it blocks the ear and let the end toutch the pump.. even then you have problems hearing the pump:banana:

BTW... this is my way of getting ready for conroe ;)

awesome triple post :P

no worries, i do it all the time with multiple quotes :D

any linkly on that danfoss pump specs/prices?

whoa. and what wattage is it on that danfoss pump? guessing pretty high...

The coil you listed is either an evaporator or a condenser coil. Neither was ever designed for water cooling. Both also require very high cfm fans to accomplish their assigned task along with the fact they have refrigerant pumped through them at med/high pressures to allow change of state.

If you use a home heating pump such as the Danfos you spoke of it is designed for use with 3/4" id piping over considerable lengths. Also what is the heat dump from that pump?

If silence is what you are after why not use a PA120.3 with an Iwaki RD-20 pump and (6) Yate Loons undervolted in a push/pull configuration using two shrouds? Or dual PA120.3s?

JMO

had a similar idea, was pretty much shot down not to mention mine was aluminum....
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=92007

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

The coil you listed is either an evaporator or a condenser coil. Neither was ever designed for water cooling. Both also require very high cfm fans to accomplish their assigned task along with the fact they have refrigerant pumped through them at med/high pressures to allow change of state.

If you use a home heating pump such as the Danfos you spoke of it is designed for use with 3/4" id piping over considerable lengths. Also what is the heat dump from that pump?

If silence is what you are after why not use a PA120.3 with an Iwaki MD-20RZ pump and (6) Yate Loons undervolted in a push/pull configuration using two shrouds? Or dual PA120.3s?

JMO

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I`m no idiot.. :p: But belive me.. this thing is going to kick some serious butt..This is water cooling on a whole new level, progress still going on!

Guess there is a new triple post going on.. ;) So many pessimitic toghts, well, relax, don`t underestimate me..

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Originally Posted by ArcticOC

I`m no idiot.. :p: But belive me.. this thing is going to kick some serious butt..This is water cooling on a whole new level, progress still going on!

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Never said that you were.

If you have ever seen passive refrigeration cooling systems you would have noticed that they all are large plate type evaporators to allow for the massive amount of surface area needed to accomplish the task. A finned tube evap/condenser as you posted is designed for high cfm fans to make up for limited surface area.

And even in a high temp refrigeration system (such as R-22) the pressure drop through the evaporator is two to three psig. JMPO

I know that part well, it is designed for low air restriction and it is an evapourater for vending machines. It will work very well for you, but like others I think an MCP350 will work much beter on it not to mention the only way you'll know it is on is via the tach. Convection is your friend, ie pump distcharge goes to the top of coil that way the weit of the water as it cools will help drive it through the coil :)

I personaly have used fridge evaps for rads and albeit restrictive work wounderfully, I look forward to seeing how well it works.

PS: Wounderfull find, that style was and is common in many chilled vending machines that serve sandwiches and such.

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Originally Posted by Xeon th MG Pony

I know that part well, it is designed for low air restriction and it is an evapourater for vending machines. It will work very well for you, but like others I think an MCP350 will work much beter on it not to mention the only way you'll know it is on is via the tach. Convection is your friend, ie pump distcharge goes to the top of coil that way the weit of the water as it cools will help drive it through the coil :)

I personaly have used fridge evaps for rads and albeit restrictive work wounderfully, I look forward to seeing how well it works.

PS: Wounderfull find, that style was and is common in many chilled vending machines that serve sandwiches and such.

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i agree , and thinked so.

Any progress or just bumping your thread up? :p:

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Originally Posted by ArcticOC

Guess there is a new triple post going on.. ;) So many pessimitic toghts, well, relax, don`t underestimate me..

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I dont doubt you, but rather the usefulness of a condensor of that style in passive operation.

and the pump placement does not matter in a closed loop system. what goes up must come down...

Man I thought you had given up on the months ago...

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

and the pump placement does not matter in a closed loop system. what goes up must come down...

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Indeed... There are no hieght restrictions in a closed loop if system is full. Push and Pull...

i will keep my mouth shut till the results come in but my gutt is telling me it will flop like the PS3 will

well i gues its the waiting thats bugging most of us...