A Call for peace, respect and tranquility

Printable View

12-30-2005, 01:57 PM
Entity_Razer

A Call for peace, respect and tranquility

First off all, this is NOT a attempt to silence the community, lets get this clear.

Now then,

I don't know for sure how to begin this so i'll just cut right down to the chase.

I just had a talk with IISSCHOTS (DPC Crew spokesperson.)
We talked, and we talked about all that has come to pass over the passed 24hours and we have come to an understanding that ,both teams have got to stop at how it's going right now.

We have speculation up the wazoo, combined with what some call proof and what some call wild accusations. I can't say DPC is happy with this situation neither. But who can blame them, if this is true people in their midst who they have trusted for so long now are cheaters, and if it all turn out to be nothing, BOTH our team's reputation will be hurt. And be sure when I say BOTH, I mean Both Xtreme Systems as the Dutch Power Cows.

I would like to ask EVERYONE to settle down and for yourselve differenciate hard facts from speculation or hear say.

If you'd be so kind to follow the following link to Free DC forums
http://www.free-dc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10633

it says there that D2OL crew is NOT able to check if cheating has been going on from whoever.

My suggestion is we all calm down and to be honest, drop the cheating thing. We cannot prove it unless we personally go down their and check the machines which should run D2OL, or if we come up with some hard undinable proof.

To be honest a lot of "proof" is underheavy to a LOT of factors. Manpower, Number of PC's.....

DDTUNG asked if ICA could post the amount of computers they have and preferably a picture if possible, I feel this still stands.

Please ICA, post how many computers and what kind you guys have.

I'm not trying to cover this all up it's just we have a problem here. 2 to be honest, one problem is, we suspect a subteam from cheating, the second problem is, we have absolutly NO way of proving it.

My suggestion, you all drop it and either all get back to crunching D2OL in hope of rescueing the little chance we have left to catch DPC any time soon since a lot of rigs have gone off line since yesterday eve. Either that or go to the next project which will most likly be rosetta by the looks of it all (already a nice base team there) or join Dimes, F@H..... but please do not linger and keep pouring salt into open wounds which will lead nowhere in the end.

I would like to keep a dialog open between XS and DPC but please, and this counts for both XS as DPC, the first wiseguy who comes onto these boards and comes stirring up trouble will get himselves banned faster then you can say "flamewar". Same for XS people, if you visit the DPC forums, PLEASE behave. I am not saying you have not done so before, I'm just stating that you are all representatives of TEAM XS. So act like it please
12-30-2005, 02:08 PM
vapb400

I'm kind of lost here, can I try to get this straight?
1. We took 1st
2. Then DPC started flushing huge amounts, mainly by ICA
3. We got suspicious, some calls of cheating arrose

Why did alot of people move to FreeDC? Has XS done something wrong?
12-30-2005, 02:29 PM
Entity_Razer

UC, let me make this very simple so EVERYONE can understand this.

I asked for a clean and gentlemen like behavior. Now I expect that from EVERYONE including long time members such as you Shmaa and you. hell even DDTUNG would get a hard time from me if he pushed it.

Keep it clean and if you have HARD proof, and I do mean HARD proof, undeniable, I suggest you lay'm down at the post I made "DPC answers" and link to it here.
12-31-2005, 12:38 AM
UCmajewski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

UC, let me make this very simple so EVERYONE can understand this.

I asked for a clean and gentlemen like behavior. Now I expect that from EVERYONE including long time members such as you Shmaa and you. hell even DDTUNG would get a hard time from me if he pushed it.

Keep it clean and if you have HARD proof, and I do mean HARD proof, undeniable, I suggest you lay'm down at the post I made "DPC answers" and link to it here.

what? Ok my fishy in cowland post ..... thats hard proof and I laid it down. clean? gentleman behavior? Do the cows practice that kind of behavior? No I think not .... I think everyone on this team / this project should be mad as hell at the cows. Now is not the time for restraint / good behavior what ever that means..... its the time for action.
12-31-2005, 03:03 AM
DDTUNG

While I agree with Entity that we should keep our discussions generally civil, I beg to differ on the need to drop the subject, not until they can give us some reasonable answers.

I have learned over the last few days that many well respect crunchers and teams had quit D2OL because they were convinced someone was cheating. One even went as far as to discussed this with Charles at D2OL, and the answer he got made him quit. While others went away quietly, XS will not. This has been our principle from day one. We cannot be silenced. While I firmly believe that the owner of XS will be fully behind me on this, I am prepared to take full responsibility for the consequences if I am proven wrong. I hope the cows are too.

DDTUNG:cool:
12-31-2005, 05:00 AM
shmaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDTUNG

While I agree with Entity that we should keep our discussions generally civil, I beg to differ on the need to drop the subject, not until they can give us some reasonable answers.

I have learned over the last few days that many well respect crunchers and teams had quit D2OL because they were convinced someone was cheating. One even went as far as to discussed this with Charles at D2OL, and the answer he got made him quit. While others went away quietly, XS will not. This has been our principle from day one. We cannot be silenced. While I firmly believe that the owner of XS will be fully behind me on this, I am prepared to take full responsibility for the consequences if I am proven wrong. I hope the cows are too.

DDTUNG:cool:

Nicely put, Victor.

I am done with this project anyhow, so I could care less whose buttons I push.
12-31-2005, 06:01 AM
Entity_Razer

First of, Victor, check your PM (It's not what you think guys)

Secondly, I do not wish for the subject to be dropped. Neither does ISSCHOTS. If there is a cheater or more in the group DPC WILL kick them from the team. That was made very clear that the DPC crew will NOT tolerate cheating in the team.

reasonable answers have been asked and ISSCHOTS has posted on the DPC forum that it would greaty help if we could even just get a list of computers or the company the guy works for or such info.

And DDT I am ok with how you responds, I do not have ANY objections to it, nor do I have objections to the fact that Charles is behind you, hell if there are cheaters (on whatever team) may they burn. But if I go to the fishy thread I only see speculation there. The only REAL evidence I see is your calculations and the calculations I made in another thread about how many comps averaged etc they would need.

Concerning their docking time, the guy could work for a company which is into the graphical industry so Dual Xeons or Dual or Quad opterons (latest) which could explain for some of the docking times (its a possibility and maybe a longshot but it is possible)

So now PLEASE, I made this thread to ask for some general peace, for the team to take a few DEEP breaths and to restart again. Slinging mud is not going to get NOR XS NOR DPC anywhere.

DPC assured me that if there are cheaters and proof can be given that they WILL be banned from DPC and Excluded from ever entering again.

BTW all involved, CHECK THE FISHY THREAD
12-31-2005, 01:13 PM
heater918

Quote:

CHECK THE FISHY THREAD

Post #1 . Not much speculation there. Granted they could be the most unlucky group of individuals on the planet. Have they responded to this concern yet?
12-31-2005, 02:21 PM
UCmajewski

We have cold hard proof .... you cant get much more cut and dry. We dont care what they say .... cause its already been said. Dialog open with DPC? Why? They always have some out landish story ....... Did u see how much it takes to get DDtung 10K a day and we are to believe that they arent dumping at this point and can do 100K plus a day? There arent that many computers in netherlands .... lol.

I think the only thing I want to hear from DPC is that ICA Cows has quit their team period. Heck Gaol too .... screw them both. That team is a joke if it doesnt respond to cheating! No edits please!
12-31-2005, 02:25 PM
lv_dicedealer

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCmajewski

We have cold hard proof .... you cant get much more cut and dry. We dont care what they say .... cause its already been said. Dialog open with DPC? Why? They always have some out landish story ....... Did u see how much it takes to get DDtung 10K a day and we are to believe that they arent dumping at this point and can do 100K plus a day? There arent that many computers in netherlands .... lol.

I think the only thing I want to hear from DPC is that ICA Cows has quit their team period. Heck Gaol too .... screw them both. That team is a joke if it doesnt respond to cheating! No edits please!

I see that you saved your post from yesterday that Entity edited :D

Also, notice DPC_Noizy_Cows total from 2 days ago is divisible by 11 (tried to throw me off didn't you, but 1223 real crunched cadidates*11 uploads =13453) !! That is the same one that is new, yet has a best candidate from last year, hmmmm.
12-31-2005, 02:44 PM
UCmajewski

Quote:

Originally Posted by lv_dicedealer

I see that you saved your post from yesterday that Entity edited :D
Also, notice DPC_Noizy_Cows total from 2 days ago is divisible by 11 (tried to throw me off didn't you, but 1223 real crunched cadidates*11 uploads =13453) !! That is the same one that is new, yet has a best candidate from last year, hmmmm.

yeah I dont like edits :)

well thats interesting as well. They arent new .... just joined back to dpc I guess cause free dc stats had them as new. they had 182 and then all the sudden dumped in the 13K. thats pretty damning evidence I think we should now compile all we got into one post and send it to DPC.
12-31-2005, 02:49 PM
[XC] moddolicous

DPC_Noizy_Cows may just be a coincidence. If they did it for a week straight, then I'd be suspicous, but once, twice or even a third time in a row I wouldnt find it that odd.
12-31-2005, 03:01 PM
lv_dicedealer

Quote:

Originally Posted by moddolicous

DPC_Noizy_Cows may just be a coincidence. If they did it for a week straight, then I'd be suspicous, but once, twice or even a third time in a row I wouldnt find it that odd.

13453 is a strange amount to dump and coincidentaly is divisible by 11. Easy to crunch 1223 cadidates and then launch 11 instances to upload. Remember that it was the multiple of 10 that got many of us looking into this, maybe trying to cover up by upping 11 times rather than 10. On the surface 13453 looks harmless and innocent and above all genuine.... Although I could be wrong.
12-31-2005, 03:10 PM
shmaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by lv_dicedealer

13453 is a strange amount to dump and coincidentaly is divisible by 11. Easy to crunch 1223 cadidates and then launch 11 instances to upload. Remember that it was the multiple of 10 that got many of us looking into this, maybe trying to cover up by upping 11 times rather than 10. On the surface 13453 looks harmless and innocent and above all genuine.... Although I could be wrong.

Noizy cows was nothing more than a merge or a name change...

http://app.d2ol.com/stats/memberProf...DPC_Noizy_Cows

Nothing new uploaded for at least 7 days.

The divisible by 11 thing is odd though.. but pure luck.
12-31-2005, 03:12 PM
UCmajewski

Quote:

Originally Posted by lv_dicedealer

13453 is a strange amount to dump and coincidentaly is divisible by 11. Easy to crunch 1223 cadidates and then launch 11 instances to upload. Remember that it was the multiple of 10 that got many of us looking into this, maybe trying to cover up by upping 11 times rather than 10. On the surface 13453 looks harmless and innocent and above all genuine.... Although I could be wrong.

it appears they were a merge, but its still very odd. Im not even sure if anything new was added. Heres something I was thinking you can check your best candidate on each indivual node of your own stats ..... they have 6 nodes almost all the work is done on one node but some remaining work is on the other 5. If those at all have the same best can found we got them stone cold. I wish a mod/admin at d2ol could look for us :poke:
12-31-2005, 03:49 PM
Bloody_Sorcerer

what, are we going start trying to divide everyone's output by some ambiguous number that just so happens to fit a decent amount of the time?
12-31-2005, 04:08 PM
Entity_Razer

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCmajewski

yeah I dont like edits :)

If you don't like edits that is your problem. Adhear to the rules and the simples things asked from you like some normal manners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCmajewski

clean? gentleman behavior? Do the cows practice that kind of behavior? No I think not .... I think everyone on this team / this project should be mad as hell at the cows. Now is not the time for restraint / good behavior what ever that means..... its the time for action.

What is this? Kindergarden?
You push me so I push you back?

This isn't kindergarden and I expect all of you to behave like normal human beings. So act like it.

Btw UC, you got reply to your PM
12-31-2005, 04:15 PM
shmaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

If you don't like edits that is your problem. Adhear to the rules and the simples things asked from you like some normal manners.

Editing for rules and editing because YOU didn't like what someone said is 2 different things.

Come down off your high horse Mr. Power Trip
12-31-2005, 04:27 PM
heater918

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=13
12-31-2005, 04:35 PM
UCmajewski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

If you don't like edits that is your problem. Adhear to the rules and the simples things asked from you like some normal manners.

i did .... its back up there. You dont like it well thats tough luck. On a forum you are allowed to express ones opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

This isn't kindergarden and I expect all of you to behave like normal human beings. So act like it.

I dont even know what you are talking about. SO I disagree with you im not personally attacking you.... the cows on the other hand yes very much. I will not respond to anymore of this. Lets concentrate on the task at hand and not the words of someones posts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

First off all, this is NOT a attempt to silence the community, lets get this clear.

ok follow that
12-31-2005, 04:35 PM
mike047

Quote:

Originally Posted by heater918

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=13

:rolleyes:
12-31-2005, 04:39 PM
Entity_Razer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodzilla

Entity prob won't do much moderating... if at all. (To be honest there just isn’t anything to mod… besides the occasional bonehead comment) His main focus will be communicating our progress to the world and doing whatever he can to make this an even better team. Entity will also be able to help organize activities like contest giveaways and the sort.

Yes and if anyone feels I have gone out of line PM me.

UC, i don't care how you feel about the DPC situation, really anyone has to right to their own opinion and to express it, I think I made that clear, the only thing that is under fire here right now is the way that opinion is brought forth into the world.
12-31-2005, 04:42 PM
lv_dicedealer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer

what, are we going start trying to divide everyone's output by some ambiguous number that just so happens to fit a decent amount of the time?

Apparently you don't get the correlation between 10 and 11 (not the binary versions either).... it is very easy to install one more client than ten, making 11. Multiples of 11 are a little more difficult to detect yet only using one more client, then do some uploads as an experiment to see if we catch it at all.

Next you will tell me that there are no UFOs in the comet's tail.... :rolleyes:
12-31-2005, 05:06 PM
IFMU

Few things here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCmajewski

yeah I dont like edits :)

That is your problem, not ours. When a moderator edits your post and you re-post it,there will be consequenses. You do something like this again and expect a vacation.
If you have a problem with the way a moderator is handling a situation, PM another moderator, an admin or one of the staff owners.
Do not re-post simply because "you do not like edits".

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCmajewski

i did .... its back up there. You dont like it well thats tough luck. On a forum you are allowed to express ones opinion.

To a degree, if it fits within the forums rules, then yes, you are allowed to express your opinion, again, as long as it is within forum rules.
Keep in mind, these forums are a PERSONALLY OWNED site, the owners have every right to edit and/or delete any post they feel needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFMU

When a moderator edits your post and you re-post it, you do something like this again and expect a vacation.
If you have a problem with the way a moderator is handling a situation, PM another moderator, an admin or one of the staff owners.

That I cannot stress enough, if there is a problem, do that, do not re-post, or you will be the one in the wrong, regardless of whether you were right/wrong or not in the first place.

As a note on the rest of this, I am still following up and re-reading this thread in its entirety to figure out what the problem seems to be. I will chime in again on this.

IFMU ~ XS Staff
12-31-2005, 05:10 PM
UCmajewski

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFMU

Few things here.

That is your problem, not ours. When a moderator edits your post and you re-post it,there will be consequenses. You do something like this again and expect a vacation.
If you have a problem with the way a moderator is handling a situation, PM another moderator, an admin or one of the staff owners.
Do not re-post simply because "you do not like edits".

To a degree, if it fits within the forums rules, then yes, you are allowed to express your opinion, again, as long as it is within forum rules.
Keep in mind, these forums are a PERSONALLY OWNED site, the owners have every right to edit and/or delete any post they feel needed.

That I cannot stress enough, if there is a problem, do that, do not re-post, or you will be the one in the wrong, regardless of whether you were right/wrong or not in the first place.

As a note on the rest of this, I am still following up and re-reading this thread in its entirety to figure out what the problem seems to be. I will chime in again on this.

IFMU ~ XS Staff

ive done exactly everything you said and he told me to repost it
12-31-2005, 05:12 PM
Entity_Razer

No.

I said you could repost it if you rephrased it to make it more politicly correct. In other words to make it less of a flame towards DPC.

my exact words:

feel free to unedit my post AS LONG as you rephrase it to be a bit more politicly correct.
12-31-2005, 05:17 PM
UCmajewski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

No.

I said you could repost it if you rephrased it to make it more politicly correct. In other words to make it less of a flame towards DPC.

my exact words:

feel free to unedit my post AS LONG as you rephrase it to be a bit more politicly correct.

ok so what is wrong with it now ? Whats the point of all this ?
12-31-2005, 05:17 PM
shmaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFMU

As a note on the rest of this, I am still following up and re-reading this thread in its entirety to figure out what the problem seems to be. I will chime in again on this.

Good luck. I can assure you this problem has personal feelings rooted deep that dates back to late summer. The problem isn't in black and white.
12-31-2005, 05:23 PM
DDTUNG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

First of, Victor, check your PM (It's not what you think guys)

Secondly, I do not wish for the subject to be dropped. Neither does ISSCHOTS. If there is a cheater or more in the group DPC WILL kick them from the team. That was made very clear that the DPC crew will NOT tolerate cheating in the team.

reasonable answers have been asked and ISSCHOTS has posted on the DPC forum that it would greaty help if we could even just get a list of computers or the company the guy works for or such info.

And DDT I am ok with how you responds, I do not have ANY objections to it, nor do I have objections to the fact that Charles is behind you, hell if there are cheaters (on whatever team) may they burn. But if I go to the fishy thread I only see speculation there. The only REAL evidence I see is your calculations and the calculations I made in another thread about how many comps averaged etc they would need.

Concerning their docking time, the guy could work for a company which is into the graphical industry so Dual Xeons or Dual or Quad opterons (latest) which could explain for some of the docking times (its a possibility and maybe a longshot but it is possible)

So now PLEASE, I made this thread to ask for some general peace, for the team to take a few DEEP breaths and to restart again. Slinging mud is not going to get NOR XS NOR DPC anywhere.

DPC assured me that if there are cheaters and proof can be given that they WILL be banned from DPC and Excluded from ever entering again.

BTW all involved, CHECK THE FISHY THREAD

ER perhaps you should have said this in your first post, which didn't come across this way. No hard feelings. We all live and learn.

When I decided to move my points to FDC and bring this issue to the greater DC community, I had Fugger's support. After that, the more I thought about it, the more convinced I became about my action. Yes, XS D2OL would get hurt, as people did not all know what was going on, and there was no way to inform and explain to all. But in the long run all of DC will benefit. At least now the D2OL admins would have to address the problem quickly. And potential cheaters will think twice. In the end it really doesn't matter who the stats say was #1 at the end of 2005. There is no doubt in my mind who won.

And I would like to thank Fugger for his conviction. It is difficulty for someone in an owner's position to risk the reputation and possibly the commercial interests of his website to do what is right. Even though I am personally prepared to assume all responsibility if proven wrong, it still takes a lot of courage to give me, in his words, 100% support. Fugger I salute you.:toast:

To all my teammates at XS D2OL, thank you for bearing with me and my reckless action. I love you all.

I better stop now and get back to work on the situation. It is far from over.

But not before I say Happy New Year to all.

DDTUNG:cool:
12-31-2005, 05:24 PM
Entity_Razer

Shmaa, I advice you to read my PM I senth you again. If you feel i'm biased towards UC and you then may I suggest you contact Rodzilla, or better yet Fugger.

As I said in a previus post, be it DDTUNG, UC, TheWildBlue,.... Whoever, I would like you all to reply in a civil manner. I can not emphasise this enough. Am I talking to walls?

Really, this is not about personal feelings, as I said, everyone has the right to express their opinion if they do so in a civil way (is there and echo in here or something I keep hearing myself say this over and over again)

again, if you feel I am biased towards UC and you, or that I am singling you 2 out, contact Rodzilla, Fugger, Saaya, Jupiler.... mainly those because Saaya and jupiler are admins, Fugger is well... the owner of Xs and Rod because he is the D2OL teamcaptain.

EDIT:

DDT: No problem. I did not take it offensive or anything else. I understand your point of view completly and I can understand you action. Don't worry about it. Whats done is done and you still have the entire team behind you.

Happy newyear to you to! Don't Drink and Drive ;)
12-31-2005, 05:30 PM
DDTUNG

ER please don't drag me into the not civil bit.:)

Those who know it know when I am not civil.

DDTUNG:cool:
12-31-2005, 05:31 PM
shmaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

UC, let me make this very simple so EVERYONE can understand this.

I asked for a clean and gentlemen like behavior. Now I expect that from EVERYONE including long time members such as you Shmaa and you.

Why was my name brought up here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

again, if you feel I am biased towards UC and you, or that I am singling you 2 out, contact Rodzilla, Fugger, Saaya, Jupiler.... mainly those because Saaya and jupiler are admins, Fugger is well... the owner of Xs and Rod because he is the D2OL teamcaptain.

Yes I do feel we are being singled out mainly because of my first quote.

I had not said anything up to that point that would warrant you directly addressing me for not acting in a civil manner.
12-31-2005, 05:34 PM
bachus_anonym

We are done here... Move along people, please. This thread will be now closed and un-stuck as it totally lost its purpose.

I hope everybody understands this arguing within our own team is NOT what we all need now. Thanks! :)