ATI drivers preventing subzero runs

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11-30-2005, 06:00 PM
mike

ATI drivers preventing subzero runs

Well, I have suspected this for a while now, that the X1800s can't run due to the ati drivers not allowing subzero temps - and it turns out that it not only affects the X1800 cards, but also the X850 cards in my case - I can only assume it's across all the ranges of ATI cards.
It not a coldbug but a controlled shut-down of Windows. This was with driver version 5.10. Prolly the same with 5.11.

For the X850 the woirkaround will be an earlier driver, but for X1800 cards hacking will be the easiest work around.

CALLING all driver modders! Need help here.

GJ ATI!
11-30-2005, 06:12 PM
SIOUX

Maybe try to uninstall the driver and through it under the cold?:) could be the driver as you say:)
11-30-2005, 06:15 PM
[XC] leviathan18

same happened with nvidia bios.... when the 7800gtx came out
11-30-2005, 06:21 PM
ahmad

What about shutting down CLI or Ati progs in the background?
11-30-2005, 06:23 PM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmad

What about shutting down CLI or Ati progs in the background?

will try that
11-30-2005, 07:27 PM
Dynasty

There should be someway to change this if it is within drivers.

Nvidia had similar core slow temp monitor trick,
that would slow core below 35 C range.
This was easily fixable with modded bios for the card.

I wonder if there is beta drivers without this issue.

I am sure non-released beta test drivers have no issue of this sort.

I would love to stick my LS on this X1800XT.
11-30-2005, 07:42 PM
mike

There are beta drivers without that issue - pretty much all the pre release press samples had these drivers - but those are under NDA - I am just about to test a modded driver right now - hoping...

The thing what I don't understand is why ATI chose to implement this - weird
11-30-2005, 08:01 PM
G H Z

I don't think it's intentional, simply somthing that was overlooked during software/BIOS development. Personally I still think it's all in the BIOS, and just so you know Mike I got my hands on some early press-only drivers and they had the same problem as all the other drivers. Thats what makes me think BIOS.

I have tried looking at the card BIOS from my XL but the only program I have found that can look at it does not allow editing, it's only viewer. There were 5 or 5 different values for temp monitoring I saw. The thing that would really answer this is if macci or Sampsa had a chance to try their ES cards with non-press drivers, or shared their BIOS with a retail XT owner to test. But somehow I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon :(

There is one guy that e-mailed me after seeing my project description, he claims to have a retail XT that runs fine under a Mach II or something similar. That to me is even more troublesome because that would mean it might not be a BIOS/driver issue at all, simply some cards may be cold bugged and others are not the same as 90nm FX chips. He is the only other guy with a retail card I have heard about running under -0° I'm still not 100% sure I believe him :D
11-30-2005, 08:40 PM
mike

The thing why I am 100% sure that this is only in the driver, is the fact that I have this problem also with a X850XT - I can run subzero without any probs with that XT on an earlier driver.
I had already mayor problems with a X850XT CF editon - with coldbugs running pelted - now things are starting to make more sense.
There might be another issue with the X1800XT - but I will know for sure in a couple of days. I have already a fix for the X850 - but I am not at liberty sharing ATM - not until further testing has been done - hopefully this will fix the X1800 as well.
Again maybe ATI has some concerns with the subzero - or it's just a programming error. Makes no sense at all...
11-30-2005, 11:33 PM
EmineM

1 Attachment(s)

I rather think its bios related

My X1800XT can boot at -30 °C with 5.11 CATs and 5.10, no difference. Core does awesome 855 mhz ^^

In attachment you will find a pic of ATI Tool obviously showing that my BBA ATI x1800XT can boot at minus degrees.
12-01-2005, 12:24 AM
G H Z

Speak of the Devil ;)

And you have never played with BIOS or anything on your card Eminem? Maybe you got an ES card in a retail box ;)
12-01-2005, 12:29 AM
mrlobber

Eminem, maybe you can save the bios and share it with others to test the theory? ;)
12-01-2005, 01:27 AM
G H Z

Ya thats a good idea :D
12-01-2005, 05:15 AM
k|ngp|n

I was able to boot the card up as low as -50c. Problem is, it would throttle the clocks or just shut windows completely during benches. There is a cold bug.
12-01-2005, 10:51 AM
speed bump

Maybe if somebody can find a bios editor we can just kill the temp monitoring all together and hope that without it the drivers don't go nuts.
12-01-2005, 10:58 AM
alz85

I've had this problem for months with X800, tried different cards, different BIOS's, ... .
I was the first to mention it here at xs, but no solution was found.

I can only bench subzero when using catalyst 4.12 or below, none of the 5.x work.
12-01-2005, 11:07 AM
Evil_Spork

theres about 10 topics on this already. so far there is no working driver that supports x1800XL.
12-01-2005, 11:36 AM
Dynasty

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlobber

Eminem, maybe you can save the bios and share it with others to test the theory? ;)

Very good idea, since Rabit does not edit temp or throttling issues.
12-01-2005, 12:18 PM
persivore

Theres a small chance that the GPU temp monitoring could be disabled with a hardware mod. Could someone check what is written on the 8 pin chip near the fan connector for me please.
On some of the older ATI cards, an LM63 temp sensor has been used to connect the thermal diode in the GPU to the SMbus, so it might be possible to disable it :)
12-01-2005, 12:38 PM
don_vercetti

seems like all good things have a coldbug nowadays....AMD's, Ati's, the list goes on. Half the things you'd want to freeze are coldbugged.
12-01-2005, 12:40 PM
EmineM

send me a link for a programm where i can save the bios of my card and ill upload it somewhere.
12-01-2005, 08:17 PM
mike

shutting down atisxx.exe services kills the bug. Just tested on a X1800XT - which isnow going back to the FS section...
12-01-2005, 08:46 PM
AACDIRECT

Just thought I would make a note for your guys. ES boards are different than the production boards and the bioses are not interchangeable. Most ES boards have a part number that ends with -10. Every X1800 XT production boards I have seen are -20. (Last two digits of the part number printed on the PCB above the HSF)

Just an FYI so no one tries to flash an ES bios on a production board.

My non-qual board had a bios that had no overdrive support. It also would not work in Crossfire. I had to flash it up to fix the issues. (The main difference between -10 and -20 is supposed to be better Crossfire support on the -20 cards. Making that clear so no conspiracy theories develop.)

EDIT: My guess is that because early cards did not have overdrive they did not have hardware monitoring in the driver. I bet that is why early ES samples did not have the issue. Also my ES card did not have a 2D speed like the production cards do. It ran at full speed 100% of the time.
12-01-2005, 08:55 PM
G H Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeguava

shutting down atisxx.exe services kills the bug. Just tested on a X1800XT - which isnow going back to the FS section...

Must test this :)

Mike is that only one service your are referring to or more?
12-01-2005, 10:02 PM
speed bump

Nice if that fixes it might actually help ATI make an assualt on the orb.
12-01-2005, 10:13 PM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by G H Z

Must test this :)

Mike is that only one service your are referring to or more?

Pretty sure that's it - both ATI services - might need CLIs too - not sure
12-01-2005, 11:13 PM
mrlobber

How much into the negative territory were you able to run the card by killing those ATI services?
12-01-2005, 11:25 PM
mike

Just completed a semi cold run on a X850XT PE started out @ -28C and ended @ -8C
with driver 5.11
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1509196
Atievxx.exe is the correct name if memory serves me right
12-02-2005, 10:49 AM
ahmad

Yeah I think this is related to VPU recover and overheating protection. Thing must be going nuts trying to deal with negative values ha.

Quote:

Just completed a semi cold run on a X850XT PE started out @ -28C and ended @ -8C
with driver 5.11
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1509196
Atievxx.exe is the correct name if memory serves me right

:slobber: :slobber:

That comes really close to my x1800XL record. Nice score.
12-02-2005, 10:55 AM
alexio

I have no idea if this helps but you could try this:

start-->run-->cmd--> "shutdown /a"

Type this when the system is shutting down.
12-02-2005, 11:05 AM
SIOUX

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeguava

Just completed a semi cold run on a X850XT PE started out @ -28C and ended @ -8C
with driver 5.11
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1509196
Atievxx.exe is the correct name if memory serves me right

very nice:) what was the clocks for that run???
12-02-2005, 11:12 AM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmad

Yeah I think this is related to VPU recover and overheating protection. Thing must be going nuts trying to deal with negative values ha.

:slobber: :slobber:

That comes really close to my x1800XL record. Nice score.

You were right with your first post! - I had always missed the second ATI service. and idn't realize it earlier.

X850s are still fun cards!!! And so much more straight forward when it comes to ocing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIOUX

very nice:) what was the clocks for that run???

Ty - this run was 796/702 - can't wait to cool the CPU and GPU :D and see how far CF can take me...
Now time to cool your Ueber X1800XT and take down the orb!
12-02-2005, 11:13 AM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexio

I have no idea if this helps but you could try this:

start-->run-->cmd--> "shutdown /a"

Type this when the system is shutting down.

Will try that the weekend ! - pelt is off for the moment.
12-02-2005, 11:30 AM
Gautam

Awesome work my friend! Absolutely cannot wait to see the rest of your results. And nearly 800MHz at "just" -8C...must be a golden card you got there. ;)
12-02-2005, 01:02 PM
Overklokk

i wil try this with my x1800xt this weekend. The card did 750/885 stock cooler an gave me about 46k in 01. Lets hope it kan handle som serius coldnes :)