Why do AMD 64 CHIPS LOSE THERE OVERCLOCK OVER TIME

Let me start this bt saying that no overclock is guarentteed and results do vary. So here are some of my thoughts after living with the AMD 64 and Nforce 4 for almost a year now.
Since January I have personally owned 7 different AMD 64 CPU
2 3500 Winnie
3 FX-55 cLAWHAMMER
1 4400X2 Toledeo
1 3800x2 mANCHESTER current chip (got my eye on a 170)

With every single chip they have all overclocked wonderful for anywhere from a few weeks to as much as a month or so. Anywhere from (2600-3120) prime stable for at least 12 hours, with no issues. BUT every single one has fallen off after a while. Some worse than others, but all fell off. Usually they fall off between 200-300 Mhz. I understand that cpu will lose some over time, but It seems that these fall off very quick. I know that the p4 is completly different chip design, but my experiences with the older p4 2.4 or 2.8 didn't loose oc so quickly, if at all.(maybe I didn't have them long enogh to fall off). I am not tring to bash anyone, as I like both Intel and AMD equally. I buy what is the fastest at the time I am buying and then overclock it.
I am currently on a quest for dual core 3000Mhz and it has been a challenge. I was wondering if anyone has had the same or different results with there amd. Plese stste what your results have been and more importantly how long have they been running at that speed, did they fall off, and your overall experiences.

Did you ever run them without a heat spreader? Maybe over time, with a lot of stress, the internal contact dries up or loses consistency?

Quote:

---

2 3500 Winnie
3 FX-55 cLAWHAMMER
1 4400X2 Toledeo
1 3800x2 mANCHESTER current chip (got my eye on a 170)

---

all this since january and you're using an XP-120?

I think I damaged by chip one day by running too much voltage through it. I booted with 1.72 volts on my Newcastle just to see if it would fix my L2 cache always failing. Aftwards when I reliezed the chip had just reached a wall I backed it down to 1.62 and ran my old stable speed of 2.6. Pi would fail in seconds and games would now crash, when they had not prior to this. I am now stable at 2.55. I can't run anything above 2550 cause after awhile somethien ends up crashing. So it's not exactly the same, but I can see if some one is running alot of voltage, after awhile that'll take a large toll on a chip. May not kill it right away, but may make it difficult to reamin at that speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kadaj

all this since january and you're using an XP-120?

---

I have run the xp-120 as well as a vapochill xe (on the fx-55 and 3500) and am currently running a water chilled cooling system. I have always upped the voltage, but I have been careful to no overdo it. Except with one of the 55 i killed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cronic

I have run the xp-120 as well as a vapochill xe (on the fx-55 and 3500) and am currently running a water chilled cooling system. I have always upped the voltage, but I have been careful to no overdo it. Except with one of the 55 i killed.

---

ahhh. Well, I probaly don't have to remind you that increased voltages over extended periods of time will produce strain on the processor, regardless of core temp to a point.

Quote:

---

but my experiences with the older p4 2.4 or 2.8 didn't loose oc so quickly

---

probaly because they were on the 130nm process, which had not even 1/5th the power leakage problems that Prescott or K8's 90nm process have.

I guess the big question is how much Vcore.

If you bumped from say 1.4 to 1.5 for the overclock I would be concerned that it fails so quickly. If however you bumped from say 1.4 to 1.6-1.65 or greater then while still concerning it is not a total suprise.

I have been doing this since the first P2/K6-2's and never had a CPU, AMD or Intel, "slow down" unless I got crazy with the Vcore(which I have done in the learning process, never fried one though :) ).

If you believe in burn-in, I remember the old school train of thought was to give it as much juice as it could take for the beginning of it's life.

Vcore aside...The times I have noticed a loss in clock speed is when I turn the computer off for a vacation of 2 weeks and the Overclock was right at it's limit. The 1st boot never seems to work, it takes a few days for things to settle back in, but otherwise 24/7 I never notice a loss of speed with a moderate overvolt.

Thats kind of interesting. I have seemed to notice just the opposite. I used to have a winchester 3000 (have a 148 opty now), and it's oc got better up until I sold it to my roomate. Originally it would only do like 2.39 with 1.5 vcore (i never go above 1.5 for air ). After like 6 months I played with it again, and it was doing about 2550 at the same vcore. My roomate currently runs it at 2550 ( he needs a ram divider however) at the exact same vcore. I use an xp-90 and heat was never an issue. Only thing I can think of is maybe to much voltage?

-Elo

After I bent pins on my FX53 it started to down clock so I got rid of it before it hit stock speeds

i know what your talking about cronic. I have run my newcastle at 2.6g 1.65vcore stable on a hyper6 with good temps for about a year, and recently it cant even reach 2.5 stable with any volts.

I dont think its the contact between the core and the ihs because my teams havnt changed, it must be a deterioration of the cpu?

my fav stalwart chip is my winchester 3200+, initally clocked to 2.55GHz, ended up doing 2.65GHz, a memory controller that handles 320HTT+, nothing has ever dropped off with it, its constantly been consistent for about a year now.

Quote:

---

it must be a deterioration of the cpu?

---

overclocking always deteriorates the processor. If anyone with an overclocked processor kept it in that state for long enough, it wouldn't even be able to stay stable at its stock speeds, let alone the overclocked one eventualy.

My Winchester has been running over a year with the same overclock, stable as can be. I recently brought it to a new benching high point, so I actually got about 50Mhz more out of it.

Another good thing to include would be your Vdimm.

Are/were you running BH based ram or similar? 3.0V+ on Vdimm for extended periods?

My Xeons have been running a 1.2Ghz (3.6Ghz) overclock for a year, sometimes I have to think hard to remember the stock speed. stock 1.3v running at 1.57v

Thank God that chips burn out, it's a great excuse to buy a newer one. :woot:

have been running my s754 3000+ claw @ 2.36ghz @ 1.575vcore for over a year and just recently got it up to 2.44Ghz 1.65vcore. It has not shown any type of degrading clock speeds...

Well to me this reinforces that burning in doesn't work, every cpu that I have kept has lost it's overclock over time, at first I thought I wasn't measuring them right but I have had, 4X 3000 Winnies 1X 3200 Winnie 1X 4000 SD 2X FX55 and now a 4400X2 this is in about 9 months every one has had a reduced overclock over the time I kept them, I also killed a FX55, we have a lot in common cronic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimandsally

Well to me this reinforces that burning in doesn't work, every cpu that I have kept has lost it's overclock over time, at first I thought I wasn't measuring them right but I have had, 4X 3000 Winnies 1X 3200 Winnie 1X 4000 SD 2X FX55 and now a 4400X2 this is in about 9 months every one has had a reduced overclock over the time I kept them, I also killed a FX55, we have a lot in common cronic.

---

i didn't think i was the only one who has seen this happen.

i've had a 3200+ clawhammer for more than a year now. it's on almost 24/7. i've put it up to 1.8v on air, brought them temps past 90c for kicks, silly things like that. it normally runs at 2.3ghz with 1.55v. that's the speed it could do when i got it, it's the speed it does today. ymmv i guess

it's more than likely the memory controller that were dying slowly, check the vcore vdimm sticky.

This happened with my last 3200+ was stable at 2.7 @ 1.65v for about 6 months and then started having problems (bsod/reboots) I put it at 2.65 @ 1.61 volts and it was fine .. but I could never get it back to 2.7 stable no matter what voltage it was running at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ben805

it's more than likely the memory controller that were dying slowly, check the vcore vdimm sticky.

---

I don't think Thats what is causing my issues. I have never used vx or redline and I have never had the vdimm over 2.95-3.0 as I have always run TCCD on this board, and the cpu has always had the voltage over stock settings. But that is definitly something worth knowing for the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cronic

I don't think Thats what is causing my issues. I have never used vx or redline and I have never had the vdimm over 2.95-3.0 as I have always run TCCD on this board, and the cpu has always had the voltage over stock settings. But that is definitly something worth knowing for the future.

---

i agree, i dont think its the memory controller due to the fact i have only ever run 2.9vdimm through my tccd.

I think its down to the issue that overclocking your cpu increases the rate that it degrades as such. Its probably again that the time of which your cpu can hold a stable o/c is down to its batch and production quality.

CPUs will degrade if not given time to run in from new, weather burn in actually works is neither here nor there, but one thing is like anything though, if you buy a bike and theres no oil on the chain, itll work, but not as smoothly as it could do until it has more oil on it. same kinda princable as with a CPU, from new it runs great, but perhaps not as smoothly as it can do until its run in a bit.

Interesting. My Winny's OC has IMPROVED over time. at stock volts / cooler used to be 2ghz, now 2.2ghz is fine and 2.4ghz is quite possible. Finishing my WC case before I really go at it though. Yes, I know I'm slow but end of Junior year / start of Senior in HS I have higher priorities [college]

if it's not the vdimm then could it be the motherboard killing your cpu slowly then?

I've experienced it with my Athlon-XP, over a few months time it just refused to do the same clocks..slowly degrading more and more.. I thought i had ruined the chip with vcore (i had it running 1.9v-2.0v for quite a while) And i just accepted it. Been running little over stock speeds for over a year now.. Though now i'm thinking it was either dust on the heatsink or thermal paste going bad as I just replaced my Zalman7000 cu with a TT BT and used AS5 (i couldn't resist testing it on my old gear, as i was still waiting for my other kit to be delivered) And well..it's doing it's old clocks happily again. :) I just never really wanted to reinstall the heatsink as i was scared of crushing the core ;) (i'm not scared anymore though hehe)

Perhaps it's just the vcore that is being used. My Winny ran 2.4GHz for 24/7 at 1.4v....so a little under stock, I just upped it to 2.5GHz and 1.45v. So I guess I haven't had to run a lot of vcore through it, mostly just stock or there under.

Have or had the problem. It started in yesterday evening.

My setup with 146 + XP90C with Delta 80mm 60%, DFI Ultra-D, Ballistx and OCZ 520W powersuply.

Worked in 3weeks with the same frequency and votage.

302 x 10 with 1.5V + 1.04%. Manage everything, so realy rock stable.

But at yesterday it whent down, and didnt whana do the same freq with the abow votages etc. But I just manage it do go back (I belive) after sanding the plate down, witch the aircooler holds it self down with (I'v removed the IHS).

So hopefully now with stable temps it will do the same as before.

I think it's happening to me. Used to need 1.552v for 2.7ghz, then bumped up to 1.584, now 1.584 fails prime in 10 hrs. I think I will go to 1.6v, let it sit, when/if it starts degrading, I'll lower clock speed.

I ran a 3000+ DTR claw 24/7 at near 1.9v on air 2.75ghz for months without a loss in clocks. I did have it at 2885mhz before but that was benching with water and the window wide open in the dead of winter.

I've been running 1.65v 2.8ghz (can run 1.675 2.85ghz but PWM gets HOT) on my 165 for a few weeks now so we'll see what happens with that.

Did you use your PSU in signature? Did you use just 1 board for all processors? Did you use any bh5 type memory?

I've had several cpus since the end of last year or so: s754 newcastle, winchester, venice, San Diego

Each of these at least for 3 months. I had absolutely no problems losing overclock, although they were heavily overclocked. For instance, SD was running 1.7V under XP-120 (by the way, great cooler it was :D) and vapo pe for half a year or so.

has it to do with temps are just Vcore, i am just wondering if my opteron 146 that does right now 2.75 @ 1.45 Vcore would degrade faster with a stock cooler than with a zalman 9500 (or what are you suggesting??)

I,m interested to see if this also happned to people who burned-in their cpu, maybe this loss of a OC is just a slow burn-in process.

There are such an enormous amount of factors involved in getting a good/excellent overclock.
Perhaps it was your motherboard voltage regulators, your power supply, the AS5 dried up, the memory was sucking the life out of the mem controller; point is who knows....

bottom line: something is different, most likely not the chip unless you juiced the heck out of it.
Look at all the possibilities, think about each one, then tackle the task at hand .... get your machine back into top shape.

I think that is where you should start because within the recurring slow deaths of your cpu's lies the answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by phadeout

Did you ever run them without a heat spreader? Maybe over time, with a lot of stress, the internal contact dries up or loses consistency?

---

Seconded :)

is it summer time where you live cronic maybe thats the problem hehe j/k
seriously tho all my cpus all seem to oc better with time and i mean my athlonxp systems and my newer a-64 systems. ive been running my sandy 3700 on watter @ 2700mhz for like 6 months i got it a year ago but the last 6 months it runs 2750 fine
v-core was 1.72 as thats pretty much the highest voltage that still gives a good enough boost to warrant the extra volts. personally i run super high v-core with my athlon xp too at 2.15 volts for over a year and it was oced to 2.6ghz on water now in my brothers computer at 2350 on air cooling 1.85v i think? anyways it never showed any sign of backing down.

i can imagine well enough the cpu will get tired out but i think this usually happens after they are obsolete anyways lol

and yeah the grease under the ihs on your athlon64s may be drying up

personally i remove the ihs imediatly after testing that the processor works lol

that ihs thing is retarted imo and only keeps blind grandmas from cracking the core or something

or the people who still want their warranty :stick:

Because you guys put way too much voltage in them and burn them out..
I have yet to wear out proc that I kept at stock voltages or less

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brandinb

and yeah the grease under the ihs on your athlon64s may be drying up

personally i remove the ihs imediatly after testing that the processor works lol

that ihs thing is retarted imo and only keeps blind grandmas from cracking the core or something

---

Agreed. IMO, the IHS is the worst thing ever devised by mankind. But I understand why Intel and AMD had to do it. They had to account for the ever increasing number of DIY tards, rofl. :p:

I've been overclocking since the early P3 days, with too many CPUs passing through my little OC factory to count, and not one has degraded or died while under my service, (uh oh, now I've jinksed myself). Now that I think of it, I have four extensively OC'd CPUs that are still chugged along nicely for at least the past two years!

I do notice one thing that happens almost without fail though, OC'd CPU's seem to always gradually get hotter over time. That is until I get out a can of compressed air and clean out the dust. :hehe:

And I do mean all the dust, the stuff that collects at the base of the heatsink, the chipset fan, case fans, mobo components and sinks, cards, PSU, drives, that large ghost turd in the back corner. Everywhere in my cases gets a squirt of air.

Call me crazy, buy I like to keep things that are overclocked as cool as possible with high CFM fans. And I don't like filters because they quickly get choked off by dust quicker than anything anyway.

I'm in no way suggesting OC'd CPU degradation doesn't exist, but every time I see these overclocked hardware damage threads pop up they make me think I must be doing something right. :cool: :p: And I must say, compressed air has to be one of the best things ever devised by mankind. ;)

Had my san diego since may, running 2.86 ghz now, at first she'd only do 2.7.. She's only gone UP not down! My old 3000+ newcastle is still running 24/7 at 2.4 ghz, and it's been doing that since the 3000+ newcastle was released. Same with my old 3500+, which is doing 2.55 in my friends rig as we speak. Never had a problem with degration.

You guys just push far too much voltage through your chips.

Perhaps its not a good idea to run your cpu to the MAX. What I mean is, if you are not going to use what the CPU provides then don't push it.

Just because the Opteron can reach 3.0, doesnt mean you have to run it at 3.0
Save a few months/years and do say 2.6 or 2.7, I'm sure your games won't have any issues with it and its still fast.

If i am going to see downfall within a year, i rather not do 3gigz

And i will put money on it that most where with EXTREME mem voltage for utt or EXTREME htt speed 310plus on a dfi ultra d board or similur i love DFI but it killed my chip at stock speed slowly at first then it just shut off and never worked again...

Dragon

I have only had one A64 lose its overclock, which I think has more to do with the memory controller than anything. It was a Winchester - I was running 3.4 - 3.5 volts through the memory for about 2 months straight folding 24/7.

One day - it just lose 200 mhz. Bam.

I sold it - and have been a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: with vdimm ever since. :banana:

Lost two winnie 3500 and a venice 3200 only ran them at 2500MHz HT4 HTt250 1:1 no mad volts just a reasonable overclock both faded both where well cooled kept well below 50 both on MSI Neo2 plat both with DDR booster but only had it set to 2.9V

One off the reason I went for the opty - hopfully stronger mem controller!!!