http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/R5XX/
reading some of the stats I am very suprised.
check out the X1600XT.
12 vertex shaders, 256 bit memory, at under $200 :D
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http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/R5XX/
reading some of the stats I am very suprised.
check out the X1600XT.
12 vertex shaders, 256 bit memory, at under $200 :D
Yes, all three series look quite nice :D
X1600XT has 128-bit memory interface...but its bandwidth is still probably very sufficient with 1.4GHz RAM ;)
Yup, hence the reason I've been waiting for em for a while :D Though they're coming no sooner than December cos ATi wants to sell its (very tempting) X800GT/GTO line of cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
But yea, for those who have wasted their entire summer wondering the specs, behold:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...ages/x1800.jpg
Here's to hoping they'll be a Connect3d version of the X1800XT/XL on Tigerdirect for $399 at before 2k6 :D *crosses fingers*
Perkam
Just thinking: Boy is the XL gonna rake in the money for manu's...if a $549 card can have 512MB 1.2ns GDDR3 and a better tested core, and still expected to turn a decent profit, then imagine how much profit comes from a $449 card with half the memory at a lowly 1GHz and a less-tested core. Not to mention more of them are probably going to be sold than 512MB XTs.
heres to hoping i can get a x1600 before i break down and buy a gto2
I'm pretty sure you'd rather have an XTpe *cough*, I mean GTO2 ;)
Doesnt say anything about pipelines and shaders... Looks like a gtx killer regardless :cool:
It certainly does talk about pipes :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
They're calling them Shader Processors and Geometry Pipelines.
we dont know how far these will clock though :D i just love breaking thingsQuote:
I'm pretty sure you'd rather have an XTpe *cough*, I mean GTO2
While nobody doubts anymore that the X1800XT will kill the 7800GTX, it's pretty funny to read a new 9th wave of discussions popping up less than 3 days from the official launch of the product :)
An interesting thing was just pointed out at rage3d. One member there outlined many grammatical and spelling errors present in these sheets (and got immediately bashed by some fanboys), which could mean they're perhaps fake or at least put together in such a haste that they might contain some significant deviations from the final version of these documents.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...2&page=4&pp=30
What i care about :D :
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/892...cts3d056oq.jpg
Perkam
EXACTLY, i only got a poor 6900 with my 7800gt before it fried. i plan on selling my new one when it comes back from rma lol.Quote:
*edit* plus these things got 20 pipes
9100? :eek:
and thats at stock?
holy shizzle!!!
and 5100 points from the X1600....me looks at my X800 that can't reach that OCd and thinks :slapass:
x850xtpe stock is 6k
well there you have is The Inq broke a real honest to goodness true story several days before anyone else, and all of their info was dead on.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
http://www.theinq.com/?article=26622
hmm I can get 5500 on 05 with my 800XL, maybe Its not worth the bump till I can afford the 1850XTPE lol
Too bad we never know when to trust them ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker
wow that looks very cool.
the white cooling, i dont know if that will be the answer, ati will disappoint me.
since when do we stick with stock cooling? lmaoQuote:
wow that looks very cool.
the white cooling, i dont know if that will be the answer, ati will disappoint me.
I wouldn't trust this more than the inq... If true, then by all means. If false, you think we're the only ones reading inq? Or, inq is the only one with "moles"?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlobber
The fact that W1zzard posted these gives me some confidence that these were once ATi's slides if they still aren't. If they're no longer the slides, then the new ones are better.
When the cards are the market and the stats are confirmed far and wide, I want to go back through the old thread ands offer butt kickings to all the folks who were really rude to others during the performance debates. Especially to the Sanderson supporters. What was the link to that guys site? I want to see if he is taking any heat now.
*Vapor runs to delete any posts he doesn't want Aunt Ugly to see*
Troman--I really doubt they'd cater to us THAT much...we're not 100% of the community afterall :D
don't read into the marketing talk, it's just 128-bit combined with that "ring bus" feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
seems to me that they wont make any profit on the XT's at all, especially for a 512mb card with memory of that performance level, on the other hand, looks like the XL will be a cash cow, and more then make up for it with its cheaper components and good features.
this makes me worry about availablility on the XT's, and i also doubt them going below $500 anytime soon as it would be my guess that ATI has the XT to be the performance leader and the XL will be what they actually make and stock, as i bet that they will make far more profit on that.
anywho, i hope i am wrong, its just speculation on my part.
all great and everything but it wont be coming out for another 3 months.. By that time who knows what nVidia will pull.. and by the look of it they still have done nothing to improve their OpenGl support..
uhh, sure ati performs lower then nvidia in open gl, but they are still competetive, and the x1800xt outperformed the gtx in doom3, not to mention most games are in dx anyways...
edit - i was wrong about doom3, they didnt include it in the x1800xt benches, heh, pretty convienient, anyways, they still arent that bad in opengl, even though nvidia is better at it in the end. point in case, if open gl is your priority, it looks like an nvidia product owuld be for you, but i dont think that ati should be knocked for it, they support opengl, and they arent half bad at it either.
I compared the FEAR results from Crossfire and this article:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3...0xtfear3ur.gif
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5...800fear0fb.gif
The performance leap from x850xt to 7800 GTX and then from 7800 GTX to x1800xt is huge.
Its like they improved more than 200% from the x850xt to the x1800xt.
F.E.A.R. might be SM3 dependent and could be the reason why the jump is so huge from x850 to x1800, unless these numbers are :bs: (I hope not)
one was done with 16 AF, and one was done with 8 AF, not quite the same thing, especially for a FPS games, that typically use AF alot.
plus, theres the question of what drivers were used, what PC parts and all that...
so it's no really a "apples to apples" comparison there...
Interesting that ATI says 9100 3dmarks05 for x1800 and ppl claimed that in Ibiza at stock x1800 got 9700. :confused: :confused:
Maybe this slides are from before they increased the stock speeds? Because initially (middle of September) the X1800 worked at 600/1400, but then they decided to increase to 625/1500. Thoughts?
mabe a different setup rig
I don't think it was the clocks, I think the clockers had a lot to do with it. Is it unusual that Europes best overclockers would be better period? 600 points worth? Why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson
I would like that 1800 with the ati motherboard...patience is not one of my virtues but I did manage to sell my x800, dfi, and cpu. I've ended up with my old T23 notebook computer and will have to salivate until then.
Might even just buy the 850pci at a much more reasonable price then buy the latest of the greatest and have very little left for food ;)
Guys...the MAIN reason for those performance differences is quite simple... The x1800xt had 512mb of ram, the 7800gtx had 256. At 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 16xAF you're DEFINITELY going to get a benefit from the extra 256mb of video ram. ESPECIALLY IN F.E.A.R.... If you remember, the x800xl actually BEATS the x850xt at high rez in a few games, including call of duty 2.
In otherwords, most of that performance difference is due to that. Of course, it still does beat the 7800gtx, but after 3 months of waiting, plus another 2 months of waiting for them to be available because of the paper launch, did you expect anything different? It is FIVE months later.
Either way, my hats off to ATi for actually doing something right, and hopefully we'll see them(the xt's) BEFORE december!
.... u sure? :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
its never ati's products that i am worried about, it is thier paper launches and price gouging that upsets me.
Positive...Compare results in those games at 1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF with the x800xl 256 compared to the 512, and remember the difference will be bigger with faster gpus...Now remember at 16xAF even more memory is required than with 8xAF. Finally, keep in mind the x800xl 512 beats the x850xt in alot of cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Trust me, I'm positive.
The x1800xt IS faster, but the core isn't as big of a difference as ATi is leading you to believe...
You're definitely right to fear the price gouging of the x1800xt, due to it's VERY low numbers, we're talking almost DOUBLE the price on them for the first 3 months, and we'll be lucky to see them BY december in any form of quanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Overclockers UK
I doubt what Oc Uk is saying is entirely true for a number of reasons.
A. WE KNOW that the x1600/X1300 is delayed until December, not cos they dont have them, heck they're stockpiling the cards...its so that the GT and GTO cards have enough air time.
B. The X1800XT will be in limited quantities, but you'll most likely be able to buy it for less than $600 from at least one partner. This isnt June, so that cant charge the something as RIDICULOUS as $1000, otherwise their product wont sell, and they know that.
Expect the X1800 to be priced <$600.
Perkam
perkam, you'd be surprised...
Price gouging of x800's and 6800ultras last year saw 6800ultras going for $1000+ with ease, same with x800xtpe's... Don't be surprised if what overclockers UK says is true. Especially considering they themselves will be selling these cards, and they're saying they will go for that much!
Also, it should be noted, the 512mb geforce 6800ultra's all sold completely out of stock at $999+(before price gouging, it went OVER that after price gouging), EVEN WITH THE x850XT BEING OUT, AND THE X800XL 512mb BEING $600 LESS!. People WILL pay whatever it costs to have the best, sad but true. Remember BFG saying next round we will be seeing cards go for as much as $1200!
Always remember, when there's a shortage of products, companies charge as much as they possibly can for them, depending on how "in demand" the product is. Now, we're talking about a card who'll be in EXTREMELY limited quanities until the end of the year. This would essentially mean, everyone will be trying to get one, and therefore supply and demand is going to skyrocket that price! Doesn't matter what the board partners say, it's about what the vendors say, as they're the ones who set their price. Also remember ALOT of vendors have a system set up where when products recieve a multitude of clicks their price increases....(newegg and zip-zoom-fly for example)
Supply and demand perkam, supply and demand.
I have no doubt that was probably the case, Dil...but the 7800GTX isnt $1000 right now, and the X1800 wont be either. YES there'll be that occasional vendor selling for price mainly cos they arent aware how competitive the high end market is now due to Nvidia's multiple homeruns this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
But yea, they might come by mid oct, but they, from a marketing perspective, most likely will be price <$600...I can practically guarantee that.
EDIT: Competitive pricing is important too...the x1300 wont be $500 because the 6200 is less than $100. ATI knows its late for the ballgame and vendors who are already stocking a card with 8 more pipes for ~$450 will, following basic logic, shy away from price gouging i believe. Price gouging wasnt present with Nvidia within a week after launch and at that time, it didnt even have a competitor - they could have gotten away by charging $1000 for it, but it didnt happen within the first week or so, and ppl were buying them for $500 pretty quick.
Perkam
perkam, you quoted me while I was editing...re-read my post and adjust yours to what I said.
my theory is that ati really doesnt want to selll x1800xt's at all, i think they will lose money on them, so i think they will not increase production on them until the price on ram goes down.
on the other hand, i expect the xl to be available on launch, very close to msrp. they have to at least come close to nvidia.
yeah but it is atleast a few months till then...
You would have to be totally insane to spend even $600US for a video card. How can anyone justify that cost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think
There's something to be said for the Xtreme OCers to be able to say that they(potentially) have the fastest single graphics card on planet earth.
No... 512mb doesnt make a difference. Only in xbit lab's review and only in hl2. Others the difference is minimal and it certanly doesnt beat x850xt. Like I said only in xbitlab's HL2.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2406&p=1
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...charts-08.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...0xl-512mb.html
http://www.hothardware.com/viewartic...?articleid=681
Perkam, it's not lack of videocard competition that causes price gouging man, you have that all wrong. It's lack of availability that causes it... Let's put it this way, if there's only 1000 of a specific product worldwide, and your store happens to have 10 of them(which WILL be close to the case with the x1800xt), are you going to sell them at MSRP or are you going to charge an arm and a leg for it? Now, this isn't thinking from a "will it sell" standpoint, you know it will, it's been proven before that people will pay $1000 for a single videocard, as all the vendors sold out of their 512mb geforce6800ultras, and that $1000 was MSRP!Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
The stores have NO care about what's going on between the two companies, they know they can sell their limited quanity of cards with literally no problem at a super high price, as there's always someone who will buy it, and google sooner or later will bring those 10 people who will to their site.... Besides, it's either pay the stores outrageously high price, or not have one, because very few stores will have it in stock, and therefore you don't have the choice.... THAT'S HOW PRICE GOUGING WORKS PERKAM!
Meanwhile, the 7800gtx wasn't price gouged because they were MASSIVELY available on launch day, as in, people could go to ANY store and buy one on day one, therefore, due to competition BY THE STORES, they instead had to sell LOWER than msrp instead of higher, and still do. Again, stores don't care about Videocard wars, they care about price wars with other e-tailers, and if one/two stores start with a super high price, be sure ALL of them will follow.
So, to sum it all up for you, stores do NOT care about the price of the competitors product, they only care about how much they can make off an item....
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Hey one_Hertz, I'd really hate to have to do this to you, but lets dance....
Look at the attachment, that's what happens in MOST new games, including f.e.a.r. Notice the X800xl actually BEATS the 7800gtx in all but 1600x1200, and it's because of that extra memory. If you put that x800xl at the x850xtpe speeds it would've walked all over it.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2406&p=6
With HL2, that's a 8 fps gain just for having an extra 256mb of ram in that anandtech review. that's at 4xAA 8xAF, not even the memory hogging 4xAA 16xAF they ran the tests in in those slides... 8fps would account for roughly 10-15% by itself, and keep in mind as cores get faster the framerate difference increases....Finally keep in mind that the x800xl 512mb card has a HIGHER memory latency than the 256mb card, and therefore it does show the fact that the extra memory IS making a big difference, considering without the extra latency it would've been more like 15-20 fps gained..
You KNOW games like BF2 and F.E.A.R. use ALOT more videoram than HL2, due to much better textures and effects being ran....
You mean to tell me that you don't think that something that made a 14 fps gain in a game that barely made use of 256mb of videoram at 1280x1024 4xAA 8xAF won't make atleast a 20% difference in games that DO use the videoram, like BF2 and F.E.A.R.?
I'll post more results as I remember where they were, so don't think that's all I'm going to show you... It's just hard finding results in newer games between the x800xl 256 and the 512, as you're right, it doesn't ALWAYS beat the x850xtpe, but in newer games it's becoming much more important, especially in f.e.a.r.
:::edit:::
Lets play use your own links against you hertz...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...-512mb_15.html
There you have it, the f.e.a.r. beta(who's performance was maybe 1/3rd of the current demo inwhich the benchmark used by ATi in the slide takes place)
Notice something here? It states, that gpu memory IS important in this particular game... now where is it we see ATi's biggest lead?Quote:
Originally Posted by xbitlabs
Try reading your links instead of just looking at the numbers One, it'll save us both alot of time.
One_Hertz got owned by DilTech it seems. Excellent show you two!
alright the extra memory will help the x1800XT in fear and call of duty 2 but the memory is not the only thing pushing it ahead of the 7800gtx. As you can see it beats gtx in painkiller by almost 20% and as we can see form xbitlab's review the extra mem doesnt do squat there. Same thing with far cry.... The core itself has to be significantly improved to pull away from gtx in those games
And HL2.
Never said it wasn't improved, I did say the x1800xt was faster. I merely said that those percentage bars were heavily misleading, and that F.E.A.R. was mainly due to the 512mb of videoram. That simple.
Not trying to pick a fight or nothing.
The comparison was how cr@%#& the x850xt was compared to the 7800 GTX on FEAR, and then how ATi's new x1800xt has a huge advantage in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turok
EDIT: the games of the past didnt need 512mb, but today's enthusiast want 1600x1200 resolutions with the highest testure quality, shaders, HDR, bumpmapping, lighting, 4x to 16x AA, 16x AF, etc. and all that takes up video ram. CoD2 has a lot of high resolution multytexturing bumpmapping, and FEAR has dinamic lighting, and most (not all) shadows render in real time (like the Doom3 engine) with some nice high res. bumpmapping textures.
512mb, HDR, SM3 / DX9 and latter on SM4 / DX10 will be the way of the future, and we are probably close to filling up the 8x AGP bandwith.
agp, bandwidth? People still dont get it that beyond a certain point agp/pci bandwidth for video cards just doesnt matter... :/
Yet it still means nothing if you can't buy the figgin card...