X³, my new cascade, three stages, and two evaps !

These links describe what I did before, and show the current work on this cascade, they are in French, but the pics speak by themselves :

My first cascade build...

The new revision of that dual stage cascade

The original topic about X³ project


So let's come back to the topic : I'm currently building a three stager, with two evaps, one for CPU, one for GPU.

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The parts are :

Compressors :
CAJ2446Z
SC21G
SC18CL

A huge condenser, a desuperheater for each stage + some coils

Two HXs, bought here from extremecorvette

Two Temprite 340A oil seps

A TXV for the first stage, then two CPEVs

Very long suction flex, I don't wanna bench on the top of the cascade as I did with the former one.

No matter with the noise or the size :D

I'll have R404 then R1150, then R1150+R50 (only R1150 for testing)

I didn't list everything, if you think I missed something important, let me know, I'll edit :)

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Now, some pictures :D



http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-1.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-2.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-3.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-4.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-5.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-6.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-7.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-8.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-9.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-10.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-11.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-12.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-13.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-14.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-15.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-16.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-17.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-18.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/evapo-3.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-19.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-20.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-21.jpg

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Yes, it's alive !!!

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/cascade-ice1.jpg

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/s1_-434.jpg

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What's left :

- replacing the second stage CPEV, which is dead, I'm waiting for the replacement one
- receiving my ethylen, it was supposed to come yesterday...

Some pics of the parts I used :

First stage compressor + homemade receiver + copper coil :

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/cp1-1.jpg


My huge condenser, with the desuperheater :

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/condenser-1.jpg


A bunch of driers :

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/dryers.jpg


The oil separators :

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/oilsep-1.jpg


My :cool: evaps :

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/evapo-1.jpg

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/evapo-2.jpg

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/evapo-3.jpg

They are machined by a friend, using a spiral design, not exactly chilly1's (he has a copyright on that), but with the same idea :)

reserved for future edits....

really cool man!! :toast::woot::slobber:
What kind of temps are you expecting?

I'm expecting this :
First HX : -40C
Second HX : -90C
Evaps : -110C

I aim at -100C loaded, I don't care too much about unloaded temps ;)

Great cascade! Well planned, good joints, clean job, massive pipe instulation etc. :)

I really enjoyed with looking at photos

Also I have comments/questions :

1). What will you say about those Temprite oil separators? How much did you pay for them?

2). I would rather to put SC21 on third stage, SC18 is enough to condense third stage gas/gas mix
and hold temperatures fairly. With SC21 on third stage you should get better evaporating temperatures
and larger heat capacity

3). How much cascade weights?

Thanks Tonic ;)

I bought those Temprite Oil Seps. from eBay, it was quite cheap, I can't remember the exact price, but it was not more expensive than if I used homebuilt ones

I don't have anything large enough to measure exactly the weight of the cascade, but I guess it's around 100kg :D

I'll try with the compressors like I soldered them, then if the third stage capacity is too low, I'll swap them, that's quite esay to do, only two braze joint to remove, exchange the positions of each compressor and solder them back.

Second post edited, new pics :)

Hehe, so much pics in just one post, you'll get :slapass: at CM by the crew when they'll know :fact: :D

:clap: :clap: :clap:

That thing is HUGE :D

What are you planing to cool with that??

pics are uploaded on my ftp, so it doesn't use their bandwidth ;)

yeah, t'as a monster, for now, it sits in my workshop, but I fear the day when I'll have to carry it to my room, at the first floor :D

I plan to cool some P4 670 + 7800GTX with it ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrou

pics are uploaded on my ftp, so it doesn't use their bandwidth ;)

---

I was refering to your reputation over there, where you are famous for being a "no pics guy", not to bandwidth suckin' :D

oh yes, you know me quite well... I didn't remind you on CM, sorry ;)

tyrou that is a very nice build their, congrads on getting some 1150.

it will be at home tomorrow before noon :slobber:

Looking pretty man! hope it will cool like it looks ;)

R1150 came yesterday :slobber:

I had time enough today to play with my new toy :D

and finally, I got this screen :

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/s3_-930.jpg

but I also found two minor issues, which will get fixed in the next few days : my second stage CPEV is out of order, I knew it leaked, then tried to repair it, but I think I just killed it (but it doesn't leak anymore :D), and my firsts stage's TEV orifice is too small, I currently use a 00 one, and I have to open the tuning screw to the max to get the HX cold, and not cold as I want...

So the benching will wait at least a week, time for me to fix those lil' issues...

For now, I'm really happy to see those -9x°C temperatures, knowing how bad the first and the second stages work :D

woops i didnt read thread right.
it alot easier using 1150 instead of 744 isnt it.
what size bottle of 1150 ya get and what grade

I wayyyy easier, R744 is a PITA since you go below -70C, here with a very badly working cascade, I get 12C better than the best I ever got of my old one, and there are two evaps instead of one :D

I got a 50 liters, 17kg cylinder of ethylene 2.5 (99.5 purity)

I hope I'll join the -100C club in the wext week, as the cascade should be fixed, and I'll get something better for the third stage :slobber:

Is there a seat available in the -100C club ?

http://www.x3.tyrou.net/s3_-1000.jpg

:slobber:

Wow...exactly -100*. Did you get that on purpose? I would think it very hard to get exactly 100 degrees.
::Pokes the cascade::
:slobber:
Nice.

hey friend congratulations for the cascade really impressive job

I got exactly -100°C, it was a PITA to go from -99 to -100, and I don't have any -100.1 screen !

Don't poke my cascade :D

Thanks 'lizard

Sweet, nice work Tyrou, nice new avatar for you :D

G

thanks :)

Congrats on the -100 club! pretty nice looking cascade! nice work m8

thanks bro :)

Could a moderator add me to the -100C club, I've paid my fee :D

You defenitly did ;)

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Congrats :clap: Wonder what temps you will get with a good working 1st and 2nd stage :D

Hehe good job, mine friend, specially like on that broken CPEV :p: :p:

Peter

thanks guys :toast:

I have all those modifications to do :
- replacing my TEV's orifice by a larger one (01)
- replacing the dead PEV by a working PZR
- insulating better (32 -> 51mm armaflex)
- replacing the ethylene in the third stage by a methane/ethylene mix

with all those improvements, I hope I'll reach -120C, and -100 loaded, but we will see when it's done :)

Insane! Grats on reaching -100° C :)

omg lucky arse getting exactly 100 -c. :woot:

thx :wave:

I reapeat, this is a very lucky shot : I never got more than -100.0C with it :D

Now, I'm trying to solve the second stage issue, by replacing the dead CPEV by a cap tube (new CPEV will not be here before at least ten days...), but I don't know how to define the right lenght for a second stage :(

I planned to use a 0.031" (0.8mm) cap tube, and was thining of 150cm (59"), as I use a SC21G (7/8HP), and I want the R1150 to evaporate around 2bar (between 1 and 3...), do you think that's correct ?

That would be the best length you can have with 0.031 cap. Might be better if you had something larger than that actually but it will work with 0.031 too.

thanks for the advice hatemi :)

if the cap tube is not perfectly sized, i don't care a lot, I will use it until I receive my new CPEV, and that's all, so I was just seeking for an estimation :)

I'll go buying some flare fitting to braze it on, and replace my dead PEV without modifying the cascade's connections...

I also plan to install an expansion tank on each stage, as my static pressures is really high (18bar on the third stage / 17 on the second), so I'll use many cap tubes today :D

next thing I think i'll do is replacing the TEV's orifice by a 01, I currently use a 00, but the flow doesn't seem high enough, and I want this cascade to hold a high load...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrou

thanks bro :)

Could a moderator add me to the -100C club, I've paid my fee :D

---

I would add you, but mods can't do that. Send a PM to Kazoo..

Isn't the -100c club for people that have reached -100c using only co2 as a second stage gas? like i mean its ez to get -100c with 1150 im just wondering what it applys to.

i think its for cascades.....


very nice neat work my friend....gratz on great work and -100c

thanks :)

my trial-and-error way to use a cap tube instead the second stage's cpev is really bothering me, I'll stop, and wait for the replacement part :D

I hope to have the new part in maybe ~10 days, so I'll finish anything else (electricity / insulation / holdings), and try to find some methane...

so in two weeks, I wish i'll be able to send a new screenshot, let's say, around -120c :D

Hope u make it to -120*C.

I hope so, as I can't find R14 in this ******* country, I'll do with some ethylene/methane mix, I hope it will be enough to reach -120 at least, but I reapeat, my goal is -100C loaded, unloaded temps are only to good to show to friend how mad you are :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_

Isn't the -100c club for people that have reached -100c using only co2 as a second stage gas? like i mean its ez to get -100c with 1150 im just wondering what it applys to.

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-100 is -100,Like I mean, you were awarded that title using a probe that is rated to only -60c after that no telling how inaccurate it is. You also never showed your meter zeroed in a ice bath.I was just wondering that.So dont be so critical of others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wdrzal

-100 is -100,Like I mean, you were awarded that title using a probe that is rated to only -60c after that no telling how inaccurate it is. You also never showed your meter zeroed in a ice bath.I was just wondering that.So dont be so critical of others.

---

Lighten up dude, i just asked what the requirments for the -100c club were no need to spaz out.

I didn't need to test it in an icebath i read on another thread that the exact same thermometer and probe were tried in an ice bath in it was within 0.01 degrees.

I have tested my probes+gauge in an extreme way. I sprayed liquid co2 to it and it showed -77.8c. I put it in LN2 and it was too cold. So I know it is acurate enough at least to ~-80c.

oh guys, don't fight on my topic, we're not competing for the lowest temp, aren't we ? Nobody will give cookie a to the one who shows a -350C screenshot :D

Kazoo added me to the club :toast:

I have to test my cpu under a single stage, it does 5Ghz on aircooling, I guess it will be quite funny with the cascade :D

set a new world record!

I dunno, maybe, is there anyone who knows if 5005Mhz aircooled is a WR ? :D

with this rig, not air cooled wr, to set a air cooled wr go to Antarctica in the middle of the night, i fans all u need.

:D

I achieved a 5383Mhz screenie, but it was corrupted :/

My current single stage is a bit screwed up, I can only get -2C idle @ 5Ghz / 1.7V, I'll fix it next week too :)

what cpu?

P4 670 on an Asus P5WD2

just got a validation from CpuZ at 5367 :

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=39543

:)

5404Mhz validated now : http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=39553

I'll unmount my single stage, then wait for the X³ now :)

Anyone want to comment how ethylene holds load temps vs CO2 rather than just lowest temp???

-100C is -100C....can't believe he even said that.

Please, don't start a flame war here, we'll not fight for that kind of stupid things...

I hope I'll have my pzrs on next week, I want to bench, I've made a stock of good cpus, they're withing for xtreme coldness :D

why do chips run more stable under extreme cold?

I think heat has something to do with processors leaking current, or something along those lines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_new_guy

why do chips run more stable under extreme cold?

---

I wrote an FAQ on this for antoher forum, enjoy. First post!

As most of you know colder temperature, especially extreme cold, is very beneficial for overclocking. I am now going to explain why this happens from a Material Science standpoint.

First Equation that you need to understand is Ohms Law.

1. Ohms Law states that: V=IR

Where V is voltage, I is amperage, and R is resistance. Higher voltage means more amperage or less resistance.

A step up from this equation is the resistiviy equation. Resistivity is a mechanical property, different than resistance. The relationship between resistivity and Resistance can be seen in equation 2. Resistivity is dependent on Temperature, resistance is not.

2. R = P L/A

In this equation P is going to be resistivity, R is resistance, L is length (such as length of a wire), and A is cross-sectional area (of a wire). We can see that as P (resistivity) increases The resistance will increase. A larger cross sectional area will also increase Resistance.

The final equation to tie this all together is the conditions effecting resistivity. There are 3 major things that will determine the resistivity of a material. They are temperature, impurities, and deformation.

3. P (total) = P (thermal vibration) + P (impurities) + P (deformation)

P(total) is the total resistivity, and the other P's are the factors of resistivity. This equation shows that the higher the temperature, the more thermal vibrations will occur, thus causing a higher resistivity. At extremely cold temperatures such as -100 C the thermal vibrations of the atoms will be much smaller then at room temp. These smaller vibrations translate into a loss of less kinetic energy. This means that effiecency is greatly improved at cold temps. You will get a higher overclock with less voltage at these extreme temps. The other two factors, impurites and deformation also play a role in resistivity. A high purity copper with a mirror finish will have a very low resistivity.

hey cool
thanks for info,
i had an idea that it had some thing to do with drop in Resistance

awesome pics man, i cant wait to see your ~-120C pics

nice idea to bump this thread :)

I'll post a ton of new pics today, including how to insulate a -100C evap without putting anything dirty on your motherboard :)

I may have my new third stage gas tomorrow, if that's the case, I'll keep the thread up to date

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tyrou

Nobody will give cookie a to the one who shows a -350C screenshot :D

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No cookie, but you'd probably be bashed for a fake (or get nobel prize) since its almost 80K below absolute zero.

Beautiful cascade!:toast:

amazing work man. out of intrest where did you buy those liquid line filter dryers from?

Very nice temps! One hell of a setup. Good luck on the record breaking!:slobber:

:wave: tyrou :)

Beautiful cascade!:woot: :woot: :slobber:

@+:):D

:toast:

Weee : I study physics at the university, that was not serious :D

I bought my dryers at a local HVAC shop, two with 1/4" flare fittings and a 3/8" flare for the first stage.

A friend of mine will provide me with some methane today, I'll have that this afternoon, so I'll be able to charge my third stage with a better mix, maybe we'll see -120C tonight :slobber:

Pics will also come today :)

Wow, that system is huge, right up there with the "Mother of all Cascades". Nice work. Not sure why I didn't look at this thread before. Anyway, nice work, look forward to the results.

RussC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrou

:toast:

Weee : I study physics at the university, that was not serious :D

I bought my dryers at a local HVAC shop, two with 1/4" flare fittings and a 3/8" flare for the first stage.

A friend of mine will provide me with some methane today, I'll have that this afternoon, so I'll be able to charge my third stage with a better mix, maybe we'll see -120C tonight :slobber:

Pics will also come today :)

---

thanks RussC :toast:

From the date I posted this thread, I also replaced the first stage compressor (1HP), which was not strong enough to hold the load of the two lower stages, I now have a 1.5kW rotary compressor, making the whole cascade draw 3kW :D

I'm turning nuts waiting for methane, this morning, I already double checked how everything is working and prepared the setup for the new gas :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrou

I'll post a ton of new pics today, including how to insulate a -100C evap without putting anything dirty on your motherboard :)

---

:wasntme:

1.5kW :woot:

What are you blending with methane? or going just methane?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrou

I'm expecting this :
First HX : -40C
Second HX : -90C
Evaps : -110C

I aim at -100C loaded, I don't care too much about unloaded temps ;)

---

Well I think that -100c should not be any problen whit that cascade. Nice job man. That is very clean job. :woot:

So much grettings deserve more pics :D

that's how it performs :

first stage, alone :
http://www.x3.tyrou.net/s1_-620.jpg

both first and second stage on :
http://www.x3.tyrou.net/s2_-971.jpg

third stage, without methane :
http://www.x3.tyrou.net/s3_-1091.jpg

I need to improve my second stage's capacity to use methane efficiently, for now, everything I got with it was higher discharge pressures and only a few degrees lower, that was not worth it.

I also made a few changes, now, my evaps are independants, each one has its own CPEV, so I can tunr on only the gpu evap, or the cpu evap, or both :slobber:

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/cascade-26.jpg

http://www.tyrou.net/x3/cascade-29.jpg

More pics will come in a few days, I'm too busy trying to get some good numbers in 3D05 :D

SWEET :slobber: :eek:

Specially 1st stage works GOOD :p:

Which comp do you have on which stage ?

Nice idea with those 2 CPEVs ...I have never seen that till now :)

Regards
Peter

Compressors are :
- 1st : rotary, 1.5kW
- 2nd : Danfoss SC21G
- 3rd : Danfoss SC18CL

gases are R402A/1150/1150

I use a Danfoss TX2 with a 01 orifice on the first stage, then CPEVs on both the second and the dual third stage.

:slobber: Wow, good stuff mate, can't wait to see this baby with methane in the 3rd stage. I thought about using CPEV's for dual evaps previously, but have need seen anyone actually do it, nice work :clap: . That's some huge first stage compressor you got there, what sort of pressures does the 1st stage run at?