Dothan vs San Deigo!!! Title Bout!!

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08-30-2005, 06:47 AM
zxlr8

Dothan vs San Deigo!!! Title Bout!!

What do you think is going on here? First of all let me tell you the San Diego system was set up to be the ultimate fast computer for my home, but some strange situations are presenting themself. Let me first tell you each system is built and running perfectly as far as I can tell. (I am not a newbie) :p: The Dothan system does not get as high in 3d01 as I hoped but I assume this about what it should get. It gets about 27k and the San Diego system gets about 32k in 3d01.
Now the story. The feeling in games is immensely different. I have installed virtually every new game out right now on both rigs and the Dothan never lags ever like it is caching textures or really for any reason. The only game I can get it to stumble ever in is FEAR, and that is only at one tiny spot in the demo. Keep in mind that everything in the Dothan system is supposably a slower performer than the SD system. It is a Evga 6800gt that runs pretty well, but most of the time I just leave it at stock clocks because of the heat in the case. I installed Far Cry on the Dothan system last night and I could not believe the performance. I am running 1680x1050 with all of the settings at Ultra and AA at 8 and AS at 6. Quality is set to high on the video card. NO problems at all! My SD system runs @ 1280x720 runs those same quality settings, but it lags at the beginning a little when loading textures and really lags in Fear. No I am not hallucinating. I ran them back to back. My SD system runs it memory @ 247 2.5,4,4,8 and even then @ almost 7000 mb bandwidth, I get these little stops. I have an x800xt in the SD system. Any of these games should not even come close to being a problem. Now on the Dothan system I am running my memory @ 215 and @ 2,3,3,6. Bandwidth is around 4500. What the heck is going on? Does that tiny difference in latency make that big of difference? It can't be the HDDs. The SD system is in raid 0 and performs very nice. I can tell it takes a tad longer loading games on the Dothan system. In windows, they perform about the same with the very slight nod going to the A64. Final stick in the side. The Dothan runs at 2.58 and the SD @ 2.71 p95 stable. Which do you think would game better? :slapass: :slapass:
08-30-2005, 07:00 AM
adz

what about testing with a 6800gt pciex on the SD rig?
08-30-2005, 07:09 AM
caater

what about getting a asus p4gd1 mobo? :)
afaik dothan @ 2.5-2.6 got 32-33k with stock x800xt..
08-30-2005, 07:15 AM
zxlr8

I am going to try the x800xt in the Dothan system tonight. All of this so far has been with the 6800gt in it. Both rigs are AGP....
08-30-2005, 07:19 AM
gclg2000

the dothan 730 i played with was the fastest chip i've ever had, hands down. 3.0ghz
08-30-2005, 07:26 AM
zxlr8

Well the Dothan is obviously the better processor, but this still does not make sense. The benchmarks show the dothan system slower. Should it not result in better performance in games for the San Diego? The stuttering only happens at the beginning when loading textures. Is this memory issue? DO I need to adjust my page file settings?
08-30-2005, 08:25 AM
Waus-mod

yes in original is a dothan not faster... but @ even mhz it will slap a a64 in his face!
08-30-2005, 08:26 AM
mcnbns

Stupid question: they're both running clean installs of Windows, right?

It seems to me that a Dothan at nearly 2.6GHz SHOULD be beating a San Diego at 2.71GHz. Remember seeing benchmarks with it against FX-55s?
08-30-2005, 08:28 AM
afireinside

27k for a stock 6800GT in 3d01 is a great score. 6800s suck at 3d01 while X800s eat it alive.
08-30-2005, 08:32 AM
zxlr8

Yes, yes I know, but you are all evading the question, why in games it seems slower, but in benchmarks the SD is faster?
08-30-2005, 08:45 AM
Waus-mod

Then show us the benchmarks ;)
08-30-2005, 08:47 AM
mcnbns

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

Yes, yes I know, but you are all evading the question, why in games it seems slower, but in benchmarks the SD is faster?

You're misquoting yourself. That isn't the question you asked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

Which do you think would game better?

You must understand that games and benchmarks are two very different things. Games are more of a real-world test of performance, while benchmarks are artificial and more or less non-variable for each test.

You're asking why your car seems different on the race track than when you drive it back and forth to work.
08-30-2005, 09:03 AM
zxlr8

To get the 27k in 3d01 for the Dothan, the 6800gt is overclocked. Same with the SD system. I have seen this stuttering in games before and some people say more memory will solve the problem. Why would a slower system in benchmarks and fps in games, perform better when it comes to stuttering at the beginning of a game. I think this is a simple problem with the memory or page file on my San Diego system. I understand the race track analogy, but the overall feell from the Dothan system is just a lot crisper in games. The funny thing is, it is still using old technology. I can post some benchmarks, but I am not sure how that would help.
08-30-2005, 09:09 AM
zxlr8

I have gotten better since, but here is the sd benchie....
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8598889

and a bench from a similar Dothan system to mine....
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8676295

His is a lot higher, but with a lot more tweaks and better cooling.
08-30-2005, 09:14 AM
Critical.Arrow

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

To get the 27k in 3d01 for the Dothan, the 6800gt is overclocked. Same with the SD system. I have seen this stuttering in games before and some people say more memory will solve the problem. Why would a slower system in benchmarks and fps in games, perform better when it comes to stuttering at the beginning of a game. I think this is a simple problem with the memory or page file on my San Diego system. I understand the race track analogy, but the overall feell from the Dothan system is just a lot crisper in games. The funny thing is, it is still using old technology. I can post some benchmarks, but I am not sure how that would help.

Alot of it has to do with the 2m l2 9ns cache the dothan has. That really helps out :)

Critical.Arrow
08-30-2005, 09:22 AM
FireDragon

what memory in the A64 rig put in ome UTT at cas 1.5 and the other best timmings for your mobo and chip...do that and you will have NO game lags lat in game makes a HUGE diff...

Dragon
08-30-2005, 09:27 AM
zxlr8

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireDragon

what memory in the A64 rig put in ome UTT at cas 1.5 and the other best timmings for your mobo and chip...do that and you will have NO game lags lat in game makes a HUGE diff...

Dragon

That is the answer I was looking for. I would think 2 gb of memory is not the answer unless you were playing the hog POS BF2. That game is such a piece of sh-- programming garbage. Why in the world would you need to 2 gb to run a game that looks worse than Half life 1 source..... :stick: :stick: I saw 999 mb being used when playing it!!!
08-30-2005, 09:35 AM
zxlr8

So I will put the 2 latency memory in the SD system tonight to test out your theory....
08-30-2005, 09:41 AM
rozzyroz

here is my dothan at 2.55ghz 255X10 2 3 3 6 with the ati aiwx800xt
32326

if you use eist and clockgen with good memory, the dothan will eat up the fsb. you can clock 100mhz higher then i do, so that should get you to around 33k+ easy.... 265x10 should do the trick, with as low as you can get on the timmings. the dothan reacts to the timmings alot similar to the a64.

:fact:
08-30-2005, 09:48 AM
zxlr8

What kind of memory do you have and what were the settings for that run?
08-30-2005, 09:50 AM
Dragonx21

1 Attachment(s)

this is a dothan at 2792 279x10 1:1 1gb 2.5-4-4-8

with X800XTPE def

it's a bit high then SD
08-30-2005, 09:56 AM
zxlr8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonx21

this is a dothan at 2792 279x10 1:1 1gb 2.5-4-4-8

with X800XTPE def

it's a bit high then SD

Best SPi 1m?
08-30-2005, 09:58 AM
Highland3r

Dothan @ 210*12 2,2,2,5 stock X800XT PE gets 31.3k on a crappy un-optimised install...
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8636963
Eats alive a mates overclocked A64 system, both cpu and gfx overclocked to unstalbe speeds he can just make 32k... These things pwn for gaming :D Can't wait for 6800LE/ X800pro @ XTPE to arrive this week :D
08-30-2005, 10:14 AM
Cooper

OFFTOPIC
You guys just makimg me think of going Dothan :) Which I think I`ll do, cos of games performance.
08-30-2005, 10:19 AM
zxlr8

Well you should. I am thinking of selling my A64 system for another Dothan system....
Should I? Trade new for old?
08-30-2005, 10:39 AM
crotale

zxlr8: You said both cards were AGP... Try the X800 with the Dothan, they like each other =)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8668925
08-30-2005, 10:55 AM
Dragonx21

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

Best SPi 1m?

for now 25" liquid...

waiting...
08-30-2005, 11:08 AM
Cooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by crotale

zxlr8: You said both cards were AGP... Try the X800 with the Dothan, they like each other =)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8668925

And those scores were done on air ???? Impressive !
08-30-2005, 11:18 AM
zxlr8

Just looking at the clocks and scores, I would say the p4c800 is faster in 3d and slower in Spi than the p4p800se. Am I right?
08-30-2005, 11:28 AM
justwOo

P4C800 is about 1 second faster in SuperPi than P4P800se I thought
08-30-2005, 11:30 AM
caater

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

Just looking at the clocks and scores, I would say the p4c800 is faster in 3d and slower in Spi than the p4p800se. Am I right?

nope, p4p is still a bit behind in spi..

about your stuttering - mby bad IDE/sata drivers? intel hd controllers are known good performers.. and if that stuttering occurs when loading something.. might be related
08-30-2005, 11:38 AM
zxlr8

Hmm. Ok maybe I will build a new dothan rig with a p4c800. What do you all think?
08-30-2005, 11:41 AM
Cooper

I think how much for Asus p4p800se :D really
08-30-2005, 11:44 AM
zxlr8

I would keep the other Dothan rig and just build another one, unless you made me an offer I could not refuse....
08-30-2005, 11:48 AM
Cooper

Maybe later. Right now I`m on something else in my list.
P.S. Sorry for offtopic
08-30-2005, 11:56 AM
cadaveca

ok wait a minute. comparing a system, or two systems, using different videocards, in real world applications, is not an apples to apples comparo for the cpu. When it comes to games, there's that nasty little TWIMTBP logo...and you know what that means? OPTIMIZATIONS. SO, when you say the system with the nvidia card is faster...i beleive you. But i don't beleive it's because of the CPU.

At equivelent clock speeds, the dothan is faster, imho. so, same clock speeds, same mem, same card, the dothan rig should be a hair faster, even in benches. But that's with everything the same. You better make sure to use the same PSU too.

I have a 7800gtx, as per my sig...and you know what? COlin mccrae rally '05...x800xt performs better. The only thing that this shows is that performance in any given situation is definately application specific.
08-30-2005, 12:02 PM
Cooper

Well there is huge comparison test on XbitLabs
08-30-2005, 12:31 PM
zxlr8

So cadaveca, do you get little spots of stutter when you first are dumped in a new map?
08-30-2005, 01:01 PM
crotale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooper

And those scores were done on air ???? Impressive !

Yes, all air and stock X800.
The X800 didn't clock that good on air, but we have a 36.4k score all air with some gfx clocks.

Here's SuperPi, 25.140 :)
http://www.nordiccrew.com/crusader/s...46_25,140s.gif
08-30-2005, 01:21 PM
cadaveca

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

So cadaveca, do you get little spots of stutter when you first are dumped in a new map?

depends on the game. BF2, for example...x850xtpe @ 620/620..yes, there was stutter. 7800GTX...still there, but it did not take 5 minutes for it to go away.

Now, this tells me that the problem is because textures have not been fetched appropriately, and seeing how the TWIWMTBP logo is on the back of the box of my BF2 case, i'd say that the app's programming was at fault...some people will remember the valve source engine doing kinda the same to nvidia, with water features.

Once the map has been loaded a few times on either card, there is no lag. I also find that the stutter lasts as long on my 9800xt based cards as it does with the x850xtpe...again, pointing to texture fetches.

but hey, whadda i know? :stick:
08-30-2005, 02:01 PM
Lithan

Doublecheck your settings and drivers on the A64 rig. I've run the settings you are quoting on a stock 3200+ with a 6800gt and not had the problems you have.
08-30-2005, 03:29 PM
iboomalot

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxlr8

I have gotten better since, but here is the sd benchie....
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8598889

and a bench from a similar Dothan system to mine....
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8676295

His is a lot higher, but with a lot more tweaks and better cooling.

just wondering I ran my 4400+ at 2793 and ran my X800XT at your speeds yet my Nature score was 191.8 vs your 265 .9 fps

whats the secret I need to know about???
08-30-2005, 09:42 PM
fareastgq

I hear ya cadaveca, I'd have to agree, there's really no control in this test, many variables, who knows wtf is really going on. IMO the only thing that should be diff is the MB/CPU. Since it's not possible to have the same MB :P I give ya props for bringing it up thread guy, but not really a good comparison.
08-31-2005, 02:19 AM
crotale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike6969

Most people in here already know that Dothan only owns A64 in SuperPi and thats about it, when comes to gaming, A64 is still king.

Not to start a fight here, but both macci and k|ngp|n have proven Dothan to be very powerful in other situations too.

But I totally agree, he should swap graphics cards to make it a better comparison.
08-31-2005, 05:39 AM
toledo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike6969

when comes to gaming, A64 is still king. Just click on the link above that someone posted and you'll see what i mean. :clap:

Please don`t say that . It is already proven that does not work this way .
08-31-2005, 06:29 AM
p0rl1n

yeah in that link they are running a 780m with the default 133mhz fsb speed, hardly an optimal setup.
08-31-2005, 06:32 AM
Elisha

Quote:

Originally Posted by iboomalot

just wondering I ran my 4400+ at 2793 and ran my X800XT at your speeds yet my Nature score was 191.8 vs your 265 .9 fps

whats the secret I need to know about???

set all your 3d option sliders to performance and disable AA and AF.
08-31-2005, 06:48 AM
zxlr8

Ok, I stuck the x800xt in the Dothan system and then in the freezer last night and started to bench. I used Cat Drivers 5.8. I was disapointed for sure. My video and processor both scaled really well. the 740 was stable to 2684 and the x800xt would bench nature @ 593, 590. (NO VMOD all-in-wonder) I saw some crazy fps in car low and drag low. 688!! Now the wierd thing is, the best bench I could do was 30500 and I did not have much time to bench. Today, I realized my mistake. I left the quality at normal. It took about 2 hours to get a decent bench and moving both rigs and replacing the video cards. Ugh! So by the time I was not getting good results, I decided to give up. I did get a 27 second superpi though. Ambient was about 19c....
I suppose some of the problem is the p4p800se is not a good benching mobo. I think the p4c800 and it was a lot better. My SD rig gets better scores at lower video clocks, so I know something was majorly wrong. I can see the problem with overclocking the Dothan now. You need better cooling. I was getting into windows @ 2700 no problem. My normal everyday oc is 2.58. Oh well. Seeems like a giant waste of time, but with some more time, I am sure I would have been 33-34k....
08-31-2005, 07:07 AM
PcCI2iminal

a good comparo

Dothan @ 2750mhz and Venice @ 2950mhz

Dothan 2750 336 cpumarks
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/1...than2vt.th.jpg

Venice 3200+ 2950 349 cpumarks
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/2...mark8cl.th.jpg

Pifast

Dothan 2744mhz 40.83 segs
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/7...than3lk.th.jpg

Venice 3200+ 2950mhz 40.75segs
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4/p...x6454li.th.jpg

Everest

Dothan 2750mhz 5036 Mb/s
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/737...than8ai.th.jpg

Venice 3200+ 2950mhz 7378 Mb/s
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/205...x6450gq.th.jpg

CPU Arithmetic

Dothan 2750mhz Dhrystone ALU 11816,Whetstone FPU/iSSE2 3836/4907
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/774...etic6mc.th.jpg

Venice 2950mhz Dhrystone ALU 12375,Whetstone FPU/iSSE2 4647/6051
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5...x6451im.th.jpg

CPU Multi media

Dothan 2750mhz Integer/floating point 26286/28972
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5...edia7nf.th.jpg

Venice 3200+ 2950mhz Integer/floating point 27558/30195
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9...x6451rg.th.jpg

SuperPi

Dothan 2750mhz 25 secs
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/107...27506nq.th.jpg

Venice 3200+ 2950mhz 28.900 secs
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2...x6453wg.th.jpg

3d benchs 7800GTX(500/1400)

P4GD1/Dothan @ 2750mhz and DFI/FX-55 @ 2950mhz

3d03
Dothan
20700 3dmarks
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=4165119

FX-55 @ 2950mhz
19500 3dmrks
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=4103957

3d05
Dothan 750 @ 2740mhz
9571 3dmarks
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1093860

FX-55 @ 2950mhz
9239 3dmarks
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1012069

3d01
Dothan @ 2744mhz
37127 3dmarks
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8673646

FX-55 @ 2950mhz
34XXX 3dmarks
no screen

Aqua03
Dothan @ 2750mhz
110 FPS
no screen

FX-55 @ 2950
100 FPS
no screen
08-31-2005, 07:36 AM
zxlr8

That is an excellent comparison. That should be stickied!!!
08-31-2005, 07:58 AM
PcCI2iminal

thx zxlr8

Dothan can get a nice boost with hi fsb and low latency.
08-31-2005, 09:31 AM
Cooper

PcCI2iminal you put the dots on i with my long decisions what to get next - A64 (with it`s RAM issues and 6 series VGA freezes) or Dothan. I think you know the answer.
Very nice comparison.Bu t if you`d add some gaming tests that would be the great review there. Maybe you`ll even make one ?? that would be great !!!
08-31-2005, 09:48 AM
PcCI2iminal

Cooper

for games and a quiet system i suggest the Dothan

7800GTX and HL2 video stress 1024x768 no AA no AF

Dothan 2750 11 x 250 2-2-2-5 186 FPS
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9...6fps6bp.th.jpg

FX - 55 2750 11 x 250 2-2-2-5 161 FPS
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/1...shl23in.th.jpg

i just need time to build a nice review with games
08-31-2005, 10:02 AM
Cooper

OK. Here is the thread where you could put the review. You`ll be the first one. And if you wish I could make your review available for russian OCing comunity :)
So wish you luck and creativity :toast:
08-31-2005, 10:31 AM
PcCI2iminal

Cooper i will do a complete review with Dothan and Clawhammer

Quote:

And if you wish I could make your review available for russian OCing comunity

soundz great

:toast:
08-31-2005, 10:55 AM
[XC]thewildblue

The question is did the game lag with the x800 in the dothan like it did in the a64 ?
Does the game run better on the a64 with the nvidia card ?
08-31-2005, 11:09 AM
zxlr8

It did not lag with the x800xt and the dothan. I pulled up bf2. On the A64, I did not try it...
08-31-2005, 11:13 AM
zxlr8

Quote:

Originally Posted by PcCI2iminal

Cooper

for games and a quiet system i suggest the Dothan

7800GTX and HL2 video stress 1024x768 no AA no AF

Dothan 2750 11 x 250 2-2-2-5 186 FPS
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9...6fps6bp.th.jpg

FX - 55 2750 11 x 250 2-2-2-5 161 FPS
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/1...shl23in.th.jpg

i just need time to build a nice review with games

I hit 171 fps with 1280x720 4x and 8x AA and ASF. That is on my A64 system. Your fps should be higher because I am running 2710 and 2.5,4,4,8 on the memory. I will have to do it on the Dothan.....
08-31-2005, 03:05 PM
PcCI2iminal

zxlr8
I´m not sure but Ati runs better in HL2 right?
08-31-2005, 09:57 PM
zxlr8

Yeah I think you are right....