tonight i got a start to my 2x 1Hp cascade.
This one is going to be compact i hope. :p
aim -100c benching :toast:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=36215&stc=1
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tonight i got a start to my 2x 1Hp cascade.
This one is going to be compact i hope. :p
aim -100c benching :toast:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=36215&stc=1
sweet :slobber: :D
thanxs eva200, i cant wait till i got the cash to get ya 3700 clawhammer off ya :toast:
then i can have something worth benching. :stick:
hahah Still going fast! in the last half year i saw (i think) 3 cascades (if it aint more haha)
GREAT work!
What size tubing is that, and how tight a diameter did you wind it? It looks really tight. I was wondering how you did that without collapsing the tube.
I was just thinking the same thing, if you did that by hand thats just awsome kayl !!!!
look at that 90 degree bend on the right end, thats tighter yet.
its 1/4" and its about 40mm diameter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy
i wound it around desk fan stand.
it took a few goes. This pipe is crap hey, the last roll i had was much thicker walls. this stuff kink not carefull.
tahnxs wdrzal yep by hand. that bend you talking about, got a slight kink, but i got it out and brazed it a tad to re-enforce again.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
I will have 2 chilly condensers sitting under the hx and 2 rotaries on the other side.
I also have another idea for a special 2nd stage Suction line hx.
Is it better to have the suction line hx for the second stage before the hx or after the hx cooling the 1150 liquid line.??
i know last cascade it was just too cold and needs to be heated alot.
whats the diameter of the copper tube it fits inside?
Nice coil :)
But.. I'm afraid that an internal volume of largest pipe will be too large for evaporating (if this largest pipe is
supposed to work as evaporator). Do you remember Jan's autocascade heat exchanger, which was looking as
your? And he had problems, refrigerant wasn't flooding inside largest tube properly and also temperatures
was so bad.
EDIT :
About placing suction pipes, somewhere berkut said it's better to place after interstage HX, but I don't know why..
I hope someone knows and will tell us ;)
You can flood that HX easily with a proper compressor;) with those rortaries it will be a walk in a park kinda stuff. Somehow this design looks familiar ;)
its sure is a nice hx.. very compact and looks like a waterchiller reservoir!
Looking good kayl. That IHX looks great! I hope it works as good as it looks :)
I like that nice compact HX.
That sounds like a loaded question to me :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
If your talking about sub-cooling your second stage discharge with the second stage suction, the way I did it was subcool the discharge gas before the interstage hx with the suction line hx and then subcool the captube with the suction line. The suction line would be subcooling the captube first.
Did I say that right? :am:
Quote:
Originally Posted by runmc
thanxs guys.
runmc thats what i though.
But recently berkut said to do the second stage.
I think either would help.
i wasnt decided so i did both :toast:
its a little hard to follow
but right feed is to 1150 capillary line
left feed is 1150 in.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=36234&stc=1
the tube is 50mmQuote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
yeah i remember , i hope its not an issue, i had same problem with map gas hx with coil inside. the 2 extra pipes inside i hope will restrict it a little, and longer capillary maybe.
Buts its sort of short and as hatemi said 1Hp really pump it in and suck it out.
yeah i think the suction line after will really condense the 1150 well i think.
I don't understand what you mean. I was talking about the second stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
sorry, i meant second stage 1150 liquid out.Quote:
Originally Posted by runmc
i 100% agree with what you said before, thats the way its in the stickies also.
runmc was correct before, compressor to desuperheater to interstage HX
ps what time zone are you in kayl, are you +8 ,+9 or+10 gmt
I would mount that HX as low as it is possible. That way it will be easier to keep it flooded but still without it flooding back to the compressor. Actually I believe it would be a good idea to put the HX below everything else. Make a box/baseplate where it will fit with enough insulation and build everything else ontop of that :)
thaxs for that hatemi makes sense, have a think about that one i will.
wdrzal i check and let ya know.
this is my evap i used 7/32" drill bit in drill press.
then a 3/16" drill bit to clear the channels in a hand drill.
block is 40mm square and cost $10, thats a cheap evap hey. :toast:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=36299&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=36300&stc=1
Canals surely looks better in comparing to previous evaporators :) But you should work a little on walls, there they're thin ;)
It's not too bad and the tops will be covered with filler, keep in mind that the wall thickness of most soft copper tubing is only 1/32"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
its atleast 2mm i think, and what gkiing said is very true as well :toast:
Lookin good. There are a couple of spots that look like the channels arent fully cut/connected, is that just an illusion, or what?
Yes and no, in each hole I have a little cup at bottom, so there is about 1mm little wall between each hole for added surface area. I initially drill to about 4mm within base, then remove channels and back to drill press and take about 1mm more off each hole to bring base to 2-3mm.
There is a lot more surface area in this drilled evap than one done by a mill.
Block it 18mm high total with lid.
looks just like mine :), however im having a hard time finding 2/3mm top plates to fit. They have Thermaltake & others on the net but not paying $10/$15ea for a 3mm plate of copper when I bought 10 x blocks of copper 50mm X 50mm X 30mm for $7 ea & that's cut to size! They dont cut them 3mm for some strange reason, they said that there machines cant cut them that thin?Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
C-BuZz
Cbuzz is that for your vapour chill mod over at OCAU.
yeah copper in raw form is only about $10 kg.
when they cut the blocks did they lap them for you as well?
(i know my first lot of copper blocks i got from Melbourne faces were ruff as)
you wouldn’t believe how long it took me to lap them flat.) the grooves from the saw that cut them were quiet deep.
i took the other 7 blocks to a local buy and had them lapped.
the place you got your copper from, im sure they will have copper plate 3-4mm thick.
should get that cheaper than the copper bar.
My friend (local) that i get copper from now will one day find out how to program the cnc machine. and i will have round evaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Im on GMT of +8 :toast:
but i work mostly late wednesday/fridays nights to wee hours
desuperheating your secondstage discharge with the secondstage suctionline, is that really worth it? Won't that just add more heatload to the secondstage and negativly effect temps?
pos pc crashed. managed to take a screenie of my post though! lol i was to lazy to type it out again.Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
hmmmm yes and know, if you look at the cascade stickies they are used in both the first and second stage of a cascade. If they are needed or make the cascade work better is questionable I must agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
In a cascade if the cpu evap is -100c and the suction line before the compressor is normally still -80c or colder.
So I lengthen the capillary line to make it more restrictive to get less flood back to the compressor and now temps arnt as good at the evap, too restrictive and not enough capacity for 200w or so.
You have all that cold happening in the suction line and it isn’t being used for anything useful.
You could also add a few feet to the second stage suction line to have the same effect (reduce the flood back to the compressor)
This is why building cascades are so much fun, there is no guides to what works best, just different ppls findings.
i have built a few cascades and they work well with or without suction line hx.
-9xc at load, not a -100c loaded cascade yet, and that’s what I want, so I have to try different things till I get there.
For my co2 cascade under load my evap was around -70c or something around that, and the suction line before the compressors was actually colder -8xc. I was using quiet a short length of capillary line, and if I lengthen the capillary line the system didnt have enough suction to cope with the subliming that happens with co2, and loaded temps benching arnt as good.
After adding a suction line hx (inside the actual pipe hx) I gained more capacity at the evap (colder temps as well) and now the suction line was around 8K of supa heat which is ideal. But having the suction line HX inside the hx just doesn’t make sense but it worked well. So hopefully having the Suction line hx separate to the hx will further improve my loaded temps in my new cascade.
Its easy to get -100c noload but it takes a good cascade to get -100c loaded benching ya pc, and you don’t seem many ppl benching -100c these days using bench applications other than supa Pi. 3dmark2001 is what I like to bench mark against looping.
c-buzz look forward to ya phase change thread when you start it.
i think there is one spot that is real clse now that i look closer.Quote:
Originally Posted by stockhatch
i am holding off on evap (lazy) until i get some $$ and will soon have a new evap design ready i hope.
dont want to waste insulation toying intill got most parts.
i insulated the hx tonight though with expander foam, it got a bit messy but ill chop it back.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37147&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37148&stc=1
did a little work on the cascade tonight.
decided to put the condenser on top of each other instead of under the heat hx.
I still need to chop the pipes off the top of the rotaries to make it shorter.
the cascade has got a set of wheels now :woot:
End size should be 60cm long 38cm heigh and 40cm wide ;)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37233&stc=1
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http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37235&stc=1
:slobber:Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
Damn small!
Looking good, as usual :D :toast:
A bit ghetto but as Jack said it is very small. Looks great. Looking forward to see some nice results ;)
Coming from kayl, it's always ghetto ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SustaiN
but nice and small, this one. i like it :slobber:
love your work kayl
cant wait to see some results
nice condenser, where did you get it from?
Thanxs guys, yeah its small but getto.
When its finished its going in a box, so it wont matter what it looks like on the inside,
It how cold it gets.
The new guy I got the condensers from chilly almost a year ago.
I did all the wiring and finished first stage.
I used about 1.95m of 0.031” capillary line first stage, refrigerant is bbq r290 as usual.
Second stage im going to try 0.0355” and start off at 3.6m. I just waiting on a new evap and some copper pipe and end caps to finish second stage.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37393&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37394&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37395&stc=1
you got bbq propane down to -60 :shock:
impressive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneil
thanxs sneil, on me c02 cascade i had first stage at -66c hx out with it loaded by secondstage at -100c :toast:
loaded im hoping for around -45c though slight vacuum :stick:
did some more on the cascade.
this is the lowest temp so far.
decided to just use an old evap for now.
plan to load it Friday and tune it properly :toast:
first i tried no second stage desupaheater to make it neater.
but seconstage line to hx was quiet hot and after time cascade temps fell -9x's :mad:
it hard to decide (while no load testing) to run 3-5psig or 10hg without actually loading it real load to know how much charge.
no more tunning inside the house now says the boss :( (wife)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37648&stc=1
poor you :slap:Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
Nice work so far :toast:
I'm starting to look around for 1150 now, after the next couple projects I'd like to work with more like -90 loads instead of -75. That last R23 Cascade just held -75 but only 120-130w or so.
Really compact design, and despite being somewhat ghetto it's doing just what it's s'posed to :woot:
Looking forward to your tuning and load results :cool:
Gray
Kayl is the propane god :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneil
Nice cascade as always kayl, but have you ever heard of pipe benders? ;) When will you get to see load temps?
awww... pipe benders... I don't like it too much most of time myself. Maybe because I have cheap one but when making 180 degree bends for 3/8" pipes, I do get some concave shape which I don't like... :P
i know its cold in the shed damit :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by TTmodder
thanxs garry, yes -7x temps gets boring quick doesnt it, i know when i was doing co2 all i was think was i want -100c have to find ethylene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mole
that is some nice temps though for the refrigerant ya using.
Getto is the only way for me, as hard as i try it never look new does it.
But its how the cascade is built that matters as you said.
Loading and tunning as we speak, installing windows on me epox mobo
and into the shed it goes to bench and tune. :toast:
noload its been running an hour and at -96c 1Hg and 205psig -45c hx out temps -44c liquid out temps 2nd stage.
just need to add a little insulation to the evap (its really cold on the outside of the evap lack of insulation)
yeah i would love to see what r507 does on this thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by afireinside
If it doesnt leak in a few months ill pay someone to charge it for me. :toast:
pipebenders, its hard to believe , but i actually did use one in most places (tight areas)
yes jinu117 i got those same ones, every 3/8" it puts nice crease in pipe and 1/2 goes flat a little, but it works :clap:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=37711
this is idle going into bench.
I tunned it for 1.5Hours playing around 0-3psig.
then at end i tried vacuum.
likes 10-15hg for sure.
only problem is the second stage overheated.
i need to add a fan to cool the rotaries.
i have done it in the past cause they go over 100c
after a few hours
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37713&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37714&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37715&stc=1
ABSOLUTELY AWESOME!
I love these rotarys! :D :banana:
cool man!
how much is a 1hp rotary more or less than a regular hermetic
edited
They are all hermetic. Hermetic is a fancy word for sealed.The black outer shell that the compressor is in makes it hermetic.
You're benching 3D at -107...
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :woot:
That's a nice piece of work, Kayl :slobber:
What kind of heatload you figure it's running at approximately?
Running it at 10-15" loaded is pretty amazing, but -107 under load is just fantastic. Well impressed!
Gray
OKay, that rocks :woot: well done ;)
awesome kayl... love the cpu evap mounting :D
Hes referring to a reciprocator compressor i believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
thats not load its idle going into load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mole
I still need to add insultoin now.
Was benhing it tonight heavy over and over and its falling under -100c.
I had a large fan blowing on the compressors tonight and this section here need insulation now especially the 1/4 as that the 1150 liquid line.
but that will have to wait awhile ME all out $$ for a while.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=37788&stc=1
ouch what happened there ?
Yup, a little more insulation will probably improve temps a little.
Considering the best 2 stage cascades out there generally bench under -100c you're doing quite well with it. I'm sure a little more tweaking will make all the difference. Any exposed frost is stealing your coling power, so more insulation and more until it's all hidden :)
Gray
It is the HX out. He insulated it with "great stuff", and burnt it with his torch while brazing i guess. No big deal ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
yep as slacker said thats the capillary end for second stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
i had to change capillary line to fit this evap.
Still waiting on more copper to try differnt round evap.
thanxs garry, ya reminding me or garry (original we all know :toast: )
ya any good at water chillers :stick:
i think insulation second stage and ill get -100c.
I had it benching prime today -100c for 20mins. top of second stage compressor hit 78c. Have to watch those temps they get friggen hot.
It was 28c in the shed at lunch, got to get ready for summer. :woot:
so with insulation ill get -100c which is my aim prime for an hour pority 10. I havnt seen anyone do that yet.
cool temps man,
we are just getting done with summer temps are finally bearable.
Hah don't you just love internationality?
I am getting ready for winter. Damn cold. My hands were all blue when i got to school on my bike this morning. I am definitelyt NOT built for that. I am better in 50c ;)
I like that cascade. rotaries makes for some nice temps :toast:
grass is always greener on the other side!
lol
Might be.. I don't complain. I love snow, if it wasn't so damn cold. Anyways it's all about clothing ;)
If it gets too cold i'll just go to work. At least i can always have my 40+ C there :D
But hey, India is pretty hot too. You probably haven't even seen snow.
Can't you do anything to the compressors? Adding refrigerant wont even help i guess..
India has almost all types of climate, i am in delhi winters min are 2-8C at night,
summers go up to 45*C, Min max for today are 34C and 24C, it snows allot in the north, it rains allot in the east and south. man we are getting of-topic.
yeah the slacker i have only ever seen snow when i went to europe for holiday.
slacker the roataries jun normal 70c and close to 100c. i think garry or some one said they can handle as much as 110c.
I know runmc used mesh wire on his compressors as heat sinks.
I just use a fan blowing cool air over them seems to keep them under 100c
the new guy we get similar temps.
today i was driving around for work and look what i come across jusrt sitting in rubish bin along with other crap.
ehehehe heaven on earth. cascade insulation city.
SO later that night after work i jump in the car and picked up this.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38141&stc=1
heheeh i dont know where to keep it all, the wife is gonna cut sick when she see it all.
Time to start benching prime.
It will run for 1hour here it goes. :toast:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38142&stc=1
I was just checking mobo its been holding 10mins now -99.7.
i found condensation is just pooling everywhere damit.
so i added paper tissues to soak it all up and insulate.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38143&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38144&stc=1
ok it crashed once but its finally finished.
cascade has been on since 9:30pm now till 1200am.
almost time to switch off.
this is prime for an hour, its slowly getting colder the longer i leave it.
and prime straigh after.
evap -100.5c
1st stage out -48.7c
liquid line 1150 out -46.7c
suction line 1150 before compressor -22.7c
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38162&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38163&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38164&stc=1
Time to break out nail coating.
Have you considered a conformal coating like Phil mentions in the third to last post here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=75095 ?
yes noob i think i might have to extend that nail posih a little.
imdying yes conformal coating works quiet well. i did my epox socket A mobo a while back.
when i get a NF4 mobo ill look at doing that one conformal coating.
the nail polish can be removed though thats why i went for that this time.
Yeah, normally they can't tell if you've overclocked something to death... conformal coating is a bit of a give away... no RMA for you!! :D
amazing man!!
Very nice temps, congrats!!! :toast:
i had some pipe cut and some end caps milled.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38258&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=38257&stc=1
It will be a neat oil separator :D Did you use a lathe for making those end caps?
Cool Sep,
tonic i didnt do it, i got someone to make them for me on a lathe.
I only got one for now. might have to think about few more latter for other projects.
Nice end caps, but it would be less expensive if you just used a pipe cap.
this will look cooler
Time to swap and change.
Been testing new evap on single stage and found sweet spot.
Time to switch to cascade now and see how it goes.
Got to love the way oil holds propane hey guys.
From previous tests I have decided to remove the suction line hX and see how it goes running deeper vacuum and a new evap.
I have a new drier for second stage and have moved the second stage Desupaheater to different location to make it smaller.
What do ppl think is the best point to mount an enclosure onto the cpu.
ie mount plate ontop of the enclosure.
or on bottom of enclosure with some machining :confused:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=39354&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=39355&stc=1
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Kayl, what are the dimensions of the PVC reduction ?
regards
the large end of pvc ID is 60mm and the outer is 71mmQuote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
then top section is 34mm inner ID and 43mm outer and is 25mm heigh.
There is enough room to add some sticky back foam if need. Didn’t seem to need it on single stage testing, but extra wouldn’t hurt I guess.
I might mount from the bottom so can add insulation at the top.
i moved the desupaheater again.
found a better spot.
I added the stainless steel braid to the suction line tonight ready for ethylene.
I also piped r290 through pipes on the hx to see what ones im gonna use this time.
at a later date when i get some more pipe ill add a coil SLHX to see if any gains.
before i was cooling before and after the hx with slhx loop.
using SLHX after the hx isnst a good idea, ya end up heating the 1150 liquid line at load.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=39480&stc=1
you can see that quite some knowledge and experience went into that cascade... very nice :toast:
Let's hope it will show some nice temps :D
thanxs jack, yes i have been practicing cascaded alot over this year, i hope that this one stays together once finally finished as a bench cascade.
ok testing enclosure before i finalise the enclosure and get some plates made from stainless steel.
S775 need to mount high so here test run with insulation just placed over
i did a wood plate tonight to test cascade i just couldnt wait :toast:
well final testing of enclose, evap and enclsore should work well when finshed.
i have sent drawing off for stainless steel plate.
I can wait til it comes back. :D
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=39949&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=39948&stc=1
Uhmmm :)
COol Cool COOL :)
Is the stainless steel just bottom plate or total enclosure? :)
nice temps :D
the new evap is looking good aswell :toast:
Just hold down plate, it will be located on top of plastic reducer, sitting flush with the enclosure, there will be a slight groove in top of enclosure where the mount plate will sit. But at a later date I could also do a stainless steel enclosure. But for now the plastic reducer is real easy to machine and can change evap design with ease without any changes to enclosure or mounting plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
thanxs jack, I cant wait to finish insulation on secondstage, currently I only had time to finish cascade last nigh, vacumm and charge it quickly, just placed insulation on copper tubes so there are lots of air gaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Seems that first stage is removing a lot more heat now than before, (the air leaving the first stage condenser was much warmer, than when I had the cascade loaded at -100c benching priming using a suction line hx on the secondstage cooling the first stage liquid line)
So I need to retune first stage again to get better temps on first stage (currently only -40c as compared to -50c before (with ) noload.
well i had to throw out some furniture today, so quick clean and reshuffle :toast:
i ran out of time but the pc is gonna sit on top of the cascade and mount flat.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=40030&stc=1
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Kayl I would be a little leary of your end cap design since they fit inside the tube instead of over and down the outside. As the copper tube is put under pressure it expands slightly,how much depends on the pressure. This over a period of cycles can cause the braze to crack since that flat disc won't expand at the same rate, and the end to shoot out like a bullet. I can't tell you if they will fail or how many cycles it may take but wanted to mention this so your head isn't above those caps if there is a failure. picture the "tube expanding" and the lip you made for the braze "not expanding" since its much thicker flat disc and ridgid. I would use 1 on the bottom since it will be facing the base plate but I would use a standard tube cap for the top. Just some safety concerns Kayl Walt
ps I didn't notice the cap design till today or I would have mentioned it sooner
Any time you join 2 pieces of metal,especially ones that hold high pressure,its not only the strength of the weld you must consider but how one expands and contracts in relation to the other or the weld will fatigue and eventruly fail after a number of cycles.
thanxs walt for future oil seps i will use end caps.
i dont use it that much so i may look at changingg again in few months to dual evap.
ill change it then as i dont want that to happen, it makes sense now ya pointed it out.
I think it would start leaking first before a total failure but you cant be sure, its just some things most don't consider when designing something. just don't hover your head above the sep when under pressure , then the most that could happen is you getting hurt falling of the roof when your up there patching the hole. LOL
hehe diy disasters :DQuote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
I never thought about that either Walt, glad you pointed it out. I used full caps on the phase sep on my auto so no worries, and the water hx on the chiller is flatcapped but that's just the water part of it.
NIIIIICE temps so far, Kayl :toast:
Looks like the block is running nice for ya, and the system is set up just right for real load testing. You really are a master cascader :clap:
Gray