Highest memory clocks @ 2GB

I have now come to the realization that I need 2gb of memory in my primary machine. I have done some preliminary perusing and have seem some good stuff:

~250-260mhz with UTT 512mb x4
~250-300mhz with Ballistix 1gb x2 (tad pricey)

I could care less about timings, but FSB is extremely important to me since I will be using either my venice or winchester 3000+. Just to be on the safe side, I do not want to assume that the memory will function with dividers.

Anyway this will be on the DFI nf4 board. What is the most economical way to get high (maybe 280-300mhz) with a total of 2gb, regardless of command rate or standard timings?

Don't think any 1gb-stick can run >250~260Mhz (1/1000 maybe)

I would try high performance ocz/g-skill rams like pc 4800, don't know if they will work at specs in a 4x 512 setup though.

You'll have to run the rig 2T if you want to use 4 sticks on NF4 architecture. I was never able to get my Venice to boot into windows with sticks. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Im confused, is it 2x 1Gb or is it 4x 512mb?
And why exactly are you wanting 2Gb?
Is it because of the HL2 Lost Coast system requrements,
or is it because you have too much stuff running at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Turok

Im confused, is it 2x 1Gb or is it 4x 512mb?
And why exactly are you wanting 2Gb?
Is it because of the HL2 Lost Coast system requrements,
or is it because you have too much stuff running at the same time?

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He just wants 2 gigs...... doesn't really matter if it's 2x1024 or 4x512. Only thing he's concerned about is cost and overclockability.

Your best choices are 4x 512M of utt-ch chips.... like older Twinmos PC3200 SP, or older OCZ 3200VX sticks. Which would have cost $270-$440 depending on when you bought what.

Or you can go 2x 1G sticks of Crucial PC4000 Ballistix which will do 250Mhz @ 1T 8,2,2,2.5 but costs about $399.

Problem now is even finding any UTT-CH based sticks. Everyone has switched to UTT-BH based, and it isnt as good. I cant even vouch for it functioning at 4x512M yet as I have 4 sticks but 2 are bad and being RMA'd.

I do have 4x512M of old BH5, which only does 225Mhz 2T 4x 512M in the same system that takes UTT-CH to 250Mhz 2T @ 3.3Vdimm.

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Originally Posted by HousERaT

He just wants 2 gigs...... doesn't really matter if it's 2x1024 or 4x512. Only thing he's concerned about is cost and overclockability.

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by Turok

Im confused, is it 2x 1Gb or is it 4x 512mb?
And why exactly are you wanting 2Gb?
Is it because of the HL2 Lost Coast system requrements,
or is it because you have too much stuff running at the same time?

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Well I am wanting it because the BF2 demo uses more than 1gb, so this is an impending sign of things to come and yes I did notice the HL2 level "might" need 2gb as well...

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Originally Posted by uwackme

Your best choices are 4x 512M of utt-ch chips.... like older Twinmos PC3200 SP, or older OCZ 3200VX sticks. Which would have cost $270-$440 depending on when you bought what.

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With these I could only get like ~230-260mhz right?

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Originally Posted by uwackme

Or you can go 2x 1G sticks of Crucial PC4000 Ballistix which will do 250Mhz @ 1T 8,2,2,2.5 but costs about $399.

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I thought I saw someone somewhere who got thesse 1gb modules in dual channel up to like 285 or so, would htis be a realisitic expectation if I were to purchase these modules?


Also, what about TCCD or TCC5? Has anyone run 4x 512mb at high FSB? ( i am under the assumption that you cant get 1gb modules of TCCD or TCC5, right?)

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Originally Posted by J-Mag

With these I could only get like ~230-260mhz right?



I thought I saw someone somewhere who got thesse 1gb modules in dual channel up to like 285 or so, would htis be a realisitic expectation if I were to purchase these modules?


Also, what about TCCD or TCC5? Has anyone run 4x 512mb at high FSB? ( i am under the assumption that you cant get 1gb modules of TCCD or TCC5, right?)

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I thought someone on FM hit 300 on those things ... beastly :fact:

http://members.shaw.ca/ninjaactionjeans/300.JPG

Yup -> http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/...0&fpart=2&vc=1

"2-2-2-10-1T up to 227MHZ
2.5-2-2-10-1T up to 262MHZ
3-3-3-10-1T up to 300+??
3-4-4-10-1T not tested yet"

For a 2x1GB set ... gorgeous :slobber:

LilGator: Yeah thats the link I remember, which is why I put 250-300 on my first post in regards ot the ballistix. My quesiton is do you think that it is likely I could acheive 280-300mhz if I bought a pair, or was he just extremely lucky?

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Originally Posted by Ashe

Don't think any 1gb-stick can run >250~260Mhz (1/1000 maybe)

I would try high performance ocz/g-skill rams like pc 4800, don't know if they will work at specs in a 4x 512 setup though.

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ballistix is 1gb stick is guaranteed to run that timing its pc4000 you know!!
________
Whip Vaporizer

Now you guys have got me thinking about going with 2GB down the road so that I have less and less reason to upgrade later on.

yeah i am eying those 2x1gb pc4000 dual channel kit from crucial but they are 395 dollars so that hurts but there is no other option

btw 4x512 of utt is no option to me because it is 2t operation and poor overclocking compared to two sticks of 1gb!!!
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Brunette chubby

he should have tried 2.5-3-2-2 and done 2T vs 1T :D

What could beat 2.5-2-2-10-1T @ 260-265MHz ?

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Originally Posted by J-Mag

I could care less about timings, but FSB is extremely important to me since I will be using either my venice or winchester 3000+. Just to be on the safe side, I do not want to assume that the memory will function with dividers.

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Has it not been pruven that your system is faster running a lower "FSB" with tighter timings then a higher "FSB" with loose timings???

it has, with some give and take.

2.5-3-2-x-x 275 and higher should give 2.5-2-2-x-x 260-265 a run for its money, lilgator.

Thats why I think TCCD is a lesser option than the Ballistix, it can do 300 but at loose timings that equal the tight 250Mhz result of the others.

I'd really luv to see a 2G ballistix 1T vs 2G UTT-CH 2T both at 250Mhz just to know how big a hit the 1T 2T is.

Hate the thought of wasting another $395 on a "maybe" ram hunt. Sitting here with 4 uncooperative sticks of Twinmos SP ($220) and 4 uncooperative sticks of ValueVX-BH ($208) maybe I should have just bit the bullet.

That'll teach me to give my brother the 4 worst sticks I had....with only NF2 to test with :rolleyes:

4x512 @2T...
http://img85.echo.cx/img85/6757/screenshot0917ox.jpg

I'd just be happy to see good cpu speed with even 200FSB and 1T vrs. 250FSB and 2T. Just for a point of reference. I been under the impression command rate, at least when we are talking about memory on A64, is the chosen one... the timing worth chasing at all costs. I think other people are int he same boat as me. Thinking about trading their uber clocking GSkill or what have you for moderately priced 2*1Gb sticks.

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Originally Posted by CanadianTSi

Has it not been pruven that your system is faster running a lower "FSB" with tighter timings then a higher "FSB" with loose timings???

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As I said it seems every MB/CPU/RAM combo i hook up has problems with certain dividers. For instance I took out my winchester and put in my venice then tried a 166divider with no go even though the winchester takes it fine.

Total CPU speed is by far more important to me than memory speed, but I would obviously like to max both out. Which means ~280mhz for a 2.7ghz without using a divider. I want to find the least expensive way to do this.

Dumo:
Is that your redline stuff? What voltage?

It seems funny to me that I spend more money on ram than on my CPUs...

I've decided to jump the 2GB boat too. My biggest problem was accepting the performance decrease. They don't show much on a lot of these real world tests, but what about with an X2 thats starved for bandwidth? I don't think it will be THAT much worse though looking at what I have:

PQI Turbo TCCD running 255Mhz but 2.5-3-3-7-1T

versus what I just ordered for $266

OCZ 2GB PC3200 EL (2x1GB) 2-3-2-5-1T which can probably be run at 2-2-2-5-1T up to about 210Mhz.

BTW which chips do thos 1GB OCZ's use? Possibly I can run like 2.9-3.0v and get up to 225+ or so.

Eric

How is the X2 starved for bandwidth? HyperXPort solves that issue :confused:

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Originally Posted by The Mofo

How is the X2 starved for bandwidth? HyperXPort solves that issue :confused:

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Same bandwidth. Two processors. Esentually in the worst case scenario it could be about the same as s754. Thats IF they both want a ton of data at the same time.

Eric

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Originally Posted by texuspete00

I'd just be happy to see good cpu speed with even 200FSB and 1T vrs. 250FSB and 2T. Just for a point of reference. I been under the impression command rate, at least when we are talking about memory on A64, is the chosen one... the timing worth chasing at all costs. I think other people are int he same boat as me. Thinking about trading their uber clocking GSkill or what have you for moderately priced 2*1Gb sticks.

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TRCD and TRP are far more important than 1T/2T.

You guys may be interested in this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65804

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Originally Posted by STEvil

TRCD and TRP are far more important than 1T/2T.

You guys may be interested in this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65804

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i think thats wrong for gaming tho i have seen benchmarks that with gaming 2-2-2-5 2t is worse at the same speed then 3-3-3-8 1t for gaming!!
________
Marriage counseling

I just decided to put all 4 of my OCZ pc3200 rev2 TCC5's in my ultra-D tonight and they seem to be doing pretty good with 2T.. 1T is a real no go..

http://img158.echo.cx/img158/8760/test9fg.jpg

I'll run some 3dmarks too.. ;)

Edit..
Here is some more with the 2gig's.. Maybe not totally xtreme but I think the tcc5 is doing decent..

http://img168.echo.cx/img168/5886/untitled1uq.jpg

Another thing important to note is that bandwidth efficiency goes UP with a higher cpu multi. You may want to take that into consideration also. It may not be the highest fsb clock that yields u the best performance, but the tighest timings+ a high multi + a moderate HTT, ie 250-260.

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Originally Posted by fareastgq

Another thing important to note is that bandwidth efficiency goes UP with a higher cpu multi. You may want to take that into consideration also. It may not be the highest fsb clock that yields u the best performance, but the tighest timings+ a high multi + a moderate HTT, ie 250-260.

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I don't think it is the multi that causes bandwidth to go up, it is just raw CPU speed (which just so happens to increase when the multi goes up :p: )

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Originally Posted by THunDA

I just decided to put all 4 of my OCZ pc3200 rev2 TCC5's in my ultra-D tonight and they seem to be doing pretty good with 2T.. 1T is a real no go..

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Hmm Nice, I wanted to see something like that. What volts are you using?

What can these tcc5's of yours do at 512mb x2 (are both kits equal in their speed if used by themselves, and how much is their speed difference... I.E. can you get 300mhz at 2.5-3-3-X with just two sticks?)

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Originally Posted by J-Mag

I don't think it is the multi that causes bandwidth to go up, it is just raw CPU speed (which just so happens to increase when the multi goes up :p: )

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no, I tested it. bandwidth effiency is constant for each multi. it does not go up. think of it as car lanes and cars, u have 10 lanes, but only 5 cars, not effiecient use of your lanes, but if u change the # of cars to 10, then the efficiency goes up. it goes up about 4-5 % per 1 whole # multi jump. ( this is according to sandra)

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Originally Posted by fareastgq

no, I tested it. bandwidth effiency is constant for each multi. it does not go up. think of it as car lanes and cars, u have 10 lanes, but only 5 cars, not effiecient use of your lanes, but if u change the # of cars to 10, then the efficiency goes up. it goes up about 4-5 % per 1 whole # multi jump. ( this is according to sandra)

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Ok I see what you are saying. I was thinking in total bandwidth terms and not efficiency. However, I think Sandra is probably not the best thing to rely upon. At the same time effeciency is only just a peice of the total bandwidth and is easily outshined by HIGH CPU or MEM clocks.

Anyway there is no way to test this for real world results because it is impossible to have the same CPU, Mem, and HTT speeds with different Multi's. Either way the multi has VERY LITTLE impact upon a real world performance. It is the CPU speed which is most important BY FAR over every other tweaking factor (I am excluding GPUs from this).

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Originally Posted by J-Mag

Ok I see what you are saying. I was thinking in total bandwidth terms and not efficiency. However, I think Sandra is probably not the best thing to rely upon. At the same time effeciency is only just a peice of the total bandwidth and is easily outshined by HIGH CPU or MEM clocks.

Anyway there is no way to test this for real world results because it is impossible to have the same CPU, Mem, and HTT speeds with different Multi's. Either way the multi has VERY LITTLE impact upon a real world performance. It is the CPU speed which is most important BY FAR over every other tweaking factor (I am excluding GPUs from this).

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That's true, sandra is not the most reliable, but it does make sense, hopefully this big assumption off of a bench prog is somewhat correct, heh. Almost everything we do we are assuming the programs are reading correctly, we kind of have to or we can't really have a basis for anything.

THunDA,

Can you post your entire screen shot of A64 tweaker. I would really appreciate it!

I'm a AMD noob duno how to tweak the mem settings yet. I got 4 stcks of TCC5 and get them to post above 200fsb :(

eyepiz - run 2T.

This white paper from Corsair
(PDF format) http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair...erformance.pdf
measures the the relative effect of increasing the various timings by one clock cycle. Yes, the command rate is the most important, but not by a large margin. 2-2-2-5-2t easily beats 3-3-3-8-1T.

Edit: I originally posted the wrong link. Correct link above, incorrect but also good link below.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y

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Originally Posted by Otter

This white paper from Corsair
(PDF format) http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y
measures the the relative effect of increasing the various timings by one clock cycle. Yes, the command rate is the most important, but not by a large margin. 2-2-2-5-2t easily beats 3-3-3-8-1T.

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good comparison, but in general everyone alrdy knows that low latency (2 2 2) + 1t + high HTT is what the goal is. still, good info to see. Not to be one sided or anything, but that linked post seems a bit crybabyish. Yes u can get value ram, but value isn't mushkin redline, nor will it perform the same, Also, u CAN always get the best vid card AND the best ram for the best system. Budget? what budget? :p: Most ppl here want the best, period. thanks for the info though. :)

I received my 2GB of ballistix this morning, will see how it does when my X2 arrives. Also waiting on 2gb of G.Skill LE.

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Originally Posted by fareastgq

good comparison, but in general everyone alrdy knows that low latency (2 2 2) + 1t + high HTT is what the goal is. still, good info to see. Not to be one sided or anything, but that linked post seems a bit crybabyish. Yes u can get value ram, but value isn't mushkin redline, nor will it perform the same, Also, u CAN always get the best vid card AND the best ram for the best system. Budget? what budget? :p: Most ppl here want the best, period. thanks for the info though. :)

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Sorry about that, i accidentally posted the wrong URL. I meant to link
http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair...erformance.pdf
which actually does relate to my post. :rolleyes:

On the other link, I think you're missing the point of Zebo's thread. He acknowledges that better RAM does result in slightly better performance, and his tests certainly show that. The point is that high-end RAM doesn't give you that much extra bang for your buck. I'm new to this forum and maybe y'all are filthy rich and don't care about such things, but for those of us who do, it's good to know that we don't need killer RAM. For me, it made the difference between a San Diego and a Toledo CPU for my next system. :)

well, I got the filthy part of that covered anyways..

Just got the full game of Battlefield 2 ans it's hungry for RAM. So I just ordered 2GB of Crucial Ballistix PC4000, hope it does the job :)