NEWS: X900 Series Specs

http://forum.3dspeed.com.tw/lb5000/t...opic=15&show=0

"Today, ATI unveiled the full specs of the 4 flavors R520 GPU core products. ATI will officially release these products on July 26th."

Radeon X900 XT-PE
• 32 Pipeline
• 10 Vertex Units
• 90nm low k TSMC
• 500 MHz Core
• 700 MHz (1.4Ghz) Memory
• 512 MBGDDR-3

Radeon X900 XT
• 32 Pipeline
• 10 Vertex Units
• 90nm low k TSMC
• 450MHz Core
• 600MHz (1.2Ghz) Memory
• 512 MBGDDR-3

Radeon X900 pro
• 24 Pipeline
• 10 Vertex Units
• 90nm low k TSMC
• 450MHz Core
• 600 MHz (1.2Ghz) Memory
• 256/512 MB GDDR-3

Radeon X900
• 16 Pipeline
• 8 Vertex Units
• 110nm low k TSMC
• 500 MHz Core
• 500 MHz (1.0Ghz) Memory
• 256/512 MB GDDR-3

Nvidia is busted if this is true

On the other hand, I don't think this is true, atleast the name isn't. Why would they call a complete new generation of cards X900 instead of XI800 ?

Because thats how they previously worked, and why XI?

This is most likely true since we are very close to the release.... I just hope the price wont bump again!

Hurray !! :D
By the way, the link doesn't work.

There's no Geforce 6900 either and the X850 would be more like the difference between the R300 and R350.

And if you don't call it XI800, what would you call it else? 11800?

These should be cool. BTW, is the 1400mhz ram 1.2 ns or 1.0ns??

1.4ns

or maybe 1.2ns

omg, that is teh pwnsauce.

IIRC the inq had a story a long time ago that said the R520 was only going to have 6 vertex units, but I will never ba able to find the link, and plans could have changed.

p.s. bad link.

Over on EOCF we already saw this, and the specs have not been finalized by ati, there waiting for g70 to show its ugly face. After that, they will finalize to bash g70. Also, supposedly they have been delayed to August ish.

:D Radeon X900 XT-PE @ $800......... :sick: :sick: :sick: ???

:toast:

the x900xt pe is way too close to the specs of the r500 for the xbox and ati said we wont see 32 pipes until next year ¬¬

Leviathan, do you have a source link for the "won't see 32 pipes until next year" comment?... I know alot of fanATic's who would crap themselves reading that.

if the x900PRO is 24 pipes, Im buying

MSRP yet on any of these? Seems like the x850's prices are still pretty jacked up :(

no they arent, they can be had for aroud $450, thats only $50 more than i paid for my X800 Pro back in the day. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

Leviathan, do you have a source link for the "won't see 32 pipes until next year" comment?... I know alot of fanATic's who would crap themselves reading that.

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actually there is a link but i dont find it it was E3 time link so now is kind of difficult to find but ati said that we wont see something like r500 until next year

I wish i lived in US, when we're talking prizes.

But i dont, so dont make fun of my 9700PRO, it kinda gave birth to all these kiddys.

I thought a couple days ago it was being reported R520 was being respun because something or other was making it leak...and 32pipe yields were not so good, but 24pipe was very good. Of course, speculation and rumour was probably all it was, but this could be as well.

If it is 32 pipes from the beginning and the yields are good enough to keep the prices and availability out of "paper launch for six months" land, ATi will massively own this product cycle, as the "950xt" will most likely be 32 pipes as well, with just a higher clockspeed that people will achieve with normal x900's anyway...Very cool.

Hmm...Anyone else curious if the 512mb "PRO" version will have the ability to be flashed to 32 pipes (that may or may not work)? Knowing ATi and them liking to keep production of types of boards to a minimum...I wouldn't rule it out. :D

Has fake written all over it I'm afraid.

Perkam

Too fake to me. If this one is true, nVidia is slaughtered. But it can't be. Too similar to the ones used in the Xbox 360. I thought ATI said it wasn't even close to it for the desktop versions...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moddolicous

These should be cool. BTW, is the 1400mhz ram 1.2 ns or 1.0ns??

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I think, as it was mentioned, that it`s 1.4 ns which gives you max of ~1430 MHz. 1.2 ns = 1667 MHz. 1.0 ns = 2000 MHz
P.S. link works for me & it`s a chineese site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowing

Too fake to me. If this one is true, nVidia is slaughtered. But it can't be. Too similar to the ones used in the Xbox 360. I thought ATI said it wasn't even close to it for the desktop versions...

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They might be longer than guessed? And could be true, but we might not see the xt models until late this year :rolleyes: But Nvidia is going to be far behind if those are the true specs, no doubt about that! :slobber:

Troman and what`s wrong woth that ? I think that high-end VGA should have this amount of mem.

that extra 256MB shouldn't cost more than $100 for the chips itself. How much actual difference will be is up to the manufactures.

is it just me or does anyone else think the x900 vanilla is pretty much the same as the x850xt, just with a smaller die...

so whats the point of that card??? i'd feel sorry for those who "upgrade" the x850xt to x900

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poiuy223

is it just me or does anyone else think the x900 vanilla is pretty much the same as the x850xt, just with a smaller die...

so whats the point of that card??? i'd feel sorry for those who "upgrade" the x850xt to x900

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Maybe the x900 will have a grater availability and will be a really cheap card like the x800xl. Im guessing its for those who never got over a x800 / x850 to get a second chance :D

The card is like comparing the 6800 Ultra 256mb with the 512mb, the difference is that the x900 is 110nm like the x800xl but has 512mb.

I hope they dont start asking for more than $550 for the x900 xt-pe since the x900 xt-pe, xt, and pro are way above a x850xt and the x900 is just like a x850xt. Right now you can only find a few x850xt's at $450. If these cards are released, the x800 / x850's price would have to be reduced about $100-$150.
Something like this:

x900 xt-pe $550
x900 xt $500
x900 pro $450
x900 $400

x850 xt-pe $350
x850 xt $300
x800 xl $200

older cards would have to go really cheap

9800 pro $150

Looks to me like its going to take a long time before prices start to look like this.
They may delay the cards for a year, so people buy the last cards

Turok

Err...

A) There will be a 256MB version of the X900, according to these specs.

B) There already is a 512MB version of the X800XL (DOOM 3 benchies, anyone?).

:::edit:::

just forget that. i don't even think that was your point so... just got a little confused.

I thought there wasn't even going to be a 512MB version of this out first. I thought it was 256 then possibly 512mb...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poiuy223

is it just me or does anyone else think the x900 vanilla is pretty much the same as the x850xt, just with a smaller die...

so whats the point of that card??? i'd feel sorry for those who "upgrade" the x850xt to x900

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The X700pro was just as close a cousin to a 9800XT ;) So it make sense that way...but the info still looks very fishy...for reasons into which I do not indulge cos I'd rather post an essay over the existance of the ether than to begin to speculate on nex gen cards with no supporting info.

Perkam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perkam

The X700pro was just as close a cousin to a 9800XT ;) So it make sense that way...but the info still looks very fishy...for reasons into which I do not indulge cos I'd rather post an essay over the existance of the ether than to begin to speculate on nex gen cards with no supporting info.

Perkam

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and for some reason, x700pro doesnt perform as well as 9800xt. i have no idea why but when i game, it just doesnt feel as powerful. i hate the x700 cards with a passion.

wheres x900xl???! i want!

the cards will most likely be called Xaveon IMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muk

the cards will most likely be called Xaveon IMO

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:eh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muk

the cards will most likely be called Xaveon IMO

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:confused: :shrug: :bs: :confused2 :doh: :lol2: :hm: :para: ......

sup

when will this be coming out in gonna build a new system??

thanx

my pc's
pc 1

3000+ @ 2.3ghz (70 x 8.5)
duel channel 1.5 gb of hyniz ram running @ 440mhz (2x 512 ans 2 x 256)
SATA 2x 200gb hdd (400gb )
asus a8v delux rev2
x800pro @ 550 / 520
sound blaster live 5.1
500w psu
big water (water cooler)

pc 2

p4 2.8 ghz @ 3.6ghz
asus p4p800 delux
1g duel channel ram @ stock speed (400mhz)
6600GT 128mb
40gb
350w PSU
wifi-g (54mb/s)
big water (water cooler)


pc 3 (server)

(used as a HDD server)
semperon 2400 @ 2ghz
fx5600 (leadtek a310)
768mb ram ddr 400
120gb hdd + 5gb hdd ...LOL
350w psu

pc 4

1.6ghz p4 @ 2ghz
msi mainboard
512mb mem ddr400
r9200se 300/200 (+ non stock fan)
40gb hdd
350w psu
wifi -g

pc 5

2.4 ghz celeron @ 2.7ghz
128mb r9200 se 300core /200mem (+ non stock fan)
256mb of SD ram @ 133mhz
300w PSU
asus p4s533-mx
5gb hdd.. lOL (it runs off the server)

pc 6 (not complete)

2x 500mhz celeron (duel cpu)
ABIT pb6 (duel cpu)
5gb HDD ...lol (dont need a big hdd because all the games run off the server)
192mb of SD ram
32mb TNT2 m64 pro
no psu

mid-august to mid-september.

And from those dates, you can probably assume it's either at the August 26-27th launch event thing in Australia, or...more likely...on a Tuesday. ATi loves to launch things on Tuesdays.

If these specs are real, I think I'll settle for an X900 Pro for my aging P4EE (If they make an AGP version). I'll probably upgrade to a cheap Dothan rig soon too. X900 XT PE is a bit redundant for me, since I don't need the absolute best performance, just very good performance ;)

I'll settle for a x900 xt and vmod it, flash it to pe, and then oc from there? :)

I don't know how real these specs are. They could be true, or close to true. Not much different than the ones I posted, except I heard it was supposed to be changed to 24pipe because of yeilds...and therefore 16 for the pro and prolly 12 for the regular. Either could be true though considering how long it's taking to get the damn card out. If it does have 10 vertex shaders, rock on. I like vertex shaders. :p:

As for the Xt/xtpe thing...yeah. I never got that. I'd take an xt that's 95% (or perhaps even more) the speed of an xtpe for $100 less dollars...they usually end up within a small margin of each other when overclocked anyway. I've never gotten that. Like he said, get the cheapest card that has the top-end specs that are important (pipes, shaders), v-mod it, and go to town.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtle

As for the Xt/xtpe thing...yeah. I never got that. I'd take an xt that's 95% (or perhaps even more) the speed of an xtpe for $100 less dollars...they usually end up within a small margin of each other when overclocked anyway. I've never gotten that. Like he said, get the cheapest card that has the top-end specs that are important (pipes, shaders), v-mod it, and go to town.

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The problem is X800 XT's don't overclock nearly as far as the XT PE's, if both versions of the card are being made at the same time then the PE's will get the better GPU's and RAM.

Why is this thread still going ? First post stuff is false. Period.

Perkam

Exactly Perkam, GUYS THESE ARE NOT THE SPECS FOR THE 30TH TIME!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtle

mid-august to mid-september.

And from those dates, you can probably assume it's either at the August 26-27th launch event thing in Australia, or...more likely...on a Tuesday. ATi loves to launch things on Tuesdays

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Considering we've been told 80,000 times we won't see it before september, and we're seeing reviews for cross-fire boards now, I'd say CROSS-FIRE will be launched(for sale) at the 26-27th event in australia. The R520 is still sittin in VERY dangerous low yield territory, and there's no way they'll have them high enough to hardlaunch the product in less than 1 month, especially not the XT(24 pipes).

If I had to guess, I'd say end of september at the EARLIEST. November for the XT.

I have confidence that WHATEVER ATI releases next will be awesome!

C

Yup, seconded :D

You guys under some sort of NDA?

Never thought I'd say this, but I hope it's not TOO good I hope? In that case my 7800GTXs were a waste. :eek:

And yeah, I agree, why revive the month old outdated and obsolete thread? :rolleyes:

I have read that only the 3% of the producted chip run well with 32 pipe:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nachthymnen

I have read that only the 3% of the producted chip run well with 32 pipe:(

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:D Yep - they will increase up to 5% till release and exactly those 5% will be used for the X900XT PE which I'm going to buy then........ :p: :p: :p:

:toast:

All you guys saying close to xbox specs have to keep in mind that the xbox ati gpu isn't even nearly like pc gpu architecture. It is like comparing apples and oranges... the xbox 360 gpu doesn't even use dx :slap:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krille

You guys under some sort of NDA?

Never thought I'd say this, but I hope it's not TOO good I hope? In that case my 7800GTXs were a waste. :eek:

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oh come on, how can the 7800GTX be called a waste? inferior, perhaps, but nomatter how you look at it the 7800GTX is a damn good card.

I would hardly call the 7800gtx a waste product, as how early it came out and the performance it gives is the best currently available. That being said, I surely wouldn't buy a gfx card right now, let alone a gtx being how close the G71 and R520 seem to be, and the 7800gt/rv530 and 7600gt/rv515 for their respective markets.

I didn't want to start a new new thread, because rumors are rumors...and I didn't know where else to post this. There's now a few different people on three different forums (of course saying they have sources from people such as ASUS) saying some derivative of R520 scores 7000-7500 in 3dmark05. No clue if this is pro, xt, xtpe, specs/pipes or what. One of them is here, and it also has a guy saying he knows Nvidia's gameplan...To phase out the GTX with an ultra this month or next, and that the "7600gt" will be 16 pipes. He also says there's a G7x with 32pp, no clue if it'd be 110nm or 90nm...or why they'd release such a product if G80 is coming so close behind R580. Rumors, rumors, rumors...but the 3dmark score may be reliable, as a few different peeps are posting similar info. Of course if it's ATi's R520 with it that close to a gtx scoring (almost identical), they better overclock well or nvidia may indeed overshadow them with their ultra. They also better get R580 out the door soon or be prepared to be one step behind in the high-end market.

http://forums.firingsquad.com/firing...ssage.id=42089

I don't wanna say it, but nvidia's looking to be in really good shape with their cards, and ATi not so much. Even if crossfire is more efficient, nvidia may win this round by the sheer fact they're getting their products to market earlier, and dropping their older cards price when ATi releases something that can compete or slightly beat it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie

I have confidence that WHATEVER ATI releases next will be awesome!

C

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Agreed, my main problem/concern though is whether or not they will do one last hooray for AGP users. If they don't, I guess my xtpe is going to hold it's value :stick:

:D 1) 7800GTX = No waste of money - best card U can buy yet.

2) ATI will have a PCI-E suprise that'll really rock....... ;)

3) AGP is not sure.

:toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER

2) ATI will have a PCI-E suprise that'll really rock....... ;)

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ATI can be full of surprises....that is once they release it several months after its competition. In which case it more or less becomes negated. At least for the highend, NVIDIA will probably be getting more market share, as a lot of people will be buying 7800GTXs, and those people probably won't have very much incentive to switch to an R520 from that point.

i'm sure ATI will bring out a really nice card, but i doubt they will be able to do it in enough quanitity, and there is still no sign of it

hopefully one of the offerings has 32 pipes without being a powerhog...that would be sweet. then again, hopefully i'll also :banana::banana::banana::banana: a brick of gold.

but when???????? i got bored from waiting does anybody knows when will ati gonna launch something

Well they're launching something on 26/27th in Australia (link1 link2).

most likely officially launching crossfire

Everyone says that and it may be true, but if there isn't a R520 at that show, I will be surprised beyond belief. There are two Game Developer Conferences scheduled within a couple weeks after that date, one of them specially a ATi GDC, and again, i'd be xtremely surprised if they would hold these shows without a R520 present, or not being about building games around using R520's attributes.

I think it'll launch at that Australian thingy (or slightly before or after on a Tuesday), and at least be shown there, with availability either then or shortly after in September. It seems companies like ASUS are already getting shipped finished referance boards, so obviously a launch is going to be coming fairly soon.

i hope the r520 will suck ass - this way i wont have to sell my 7800 and spend money i dont have on switching vidcards again :D

I dont think that will happen because if ati released something slower then 7800 then they wouldnt sell much :stick:

As far as I see I'm still not beleiving anything. Remmber when they said g70 (7800gtx) was a huge ass power hog. Couldn't run with the heatsink, sucked a ton of power, and we'd all need seperate psu's to really use em and stuff for sli?

Remember things like that?

I've completely given up on the R520 at this point. Now with NVidia already announcing the G80(unified shader/pipes to square off with the R580!) for first quarter of 2006 and G71(which, also, could be a 32 piped monster) when the R520 comes out as well, there's just not much reason to hold out faith. By the time the R520 comes out, The G80 will be so close that it'd be pointless to jump on said product. I hope ATi make a good card, I reallllllly do, as it'll force nvidia to release their G71, which will force ATi to show off the R580(3 months later, might I add), which will make NVidia give us the G80... The card I'M waiting for.

Lets face the facts, both NVidiots and FanATIc's, this IS ATi's copy of the NV30 mistake, plain and simple!

Either way, I'm sitting on my 6800gt until 2k6, and we'll see if the R580 or G80 get my money, as neither the GTX or the r520 have a chance at my money now.

I agree, if G80 comes out Q1 of 06, and R580 is no match for it, ATi is screwed up the bum. Also, buying any of these cards coming out now is pointless unless you need one (sit tight if you have a xl/68gt or better), because as Dilly mentioned, over the next 6 months there are going to be 4-5 more high-end cards released most likely constantly one-upping...which is just crazy. In the end though, we should end up with some awesome deals on high-end cards...well, high-end cards of three months ago.

The way I heard the release plan was like this though:

R520 (late Aug/sept)
G71 (110nm, 24pp, higher clocks) or a 32pp G70-like card, whatever Nvidia feels it needs (Almost simulatious launch to R520)
R580 (32pp, 700+ core speed, other goodies) Jan/Feb 06
G80 (unified architecture, high clocks [800-1ghz], ??pipes, 90nm) Feb/Mar 06 (If release date is true, that's killer)
R600 - (65n, unified arch, high clocks [~800 or more], 64pipes, 32 rops/tmus) Nov/Dec 06

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DilTech

By the time the R520 comes out, The G80 will be so close that it'd be pointless to jump on said product.

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the G80 won't come out til summer of 2006 (the typical graphics card cycle). The R520 comes out early October at the very latest. I wouldn't call that close.

Yeah. Its the brand new achitecture thats killin ati's progress. So once they get out the r520 whats to stop them from quickly getting the r580 and waiting for nvidia's response? Maybe there working on 580 right now to get it a bit started before they release 520?

Huh? What?

I suspected G80 to come out much later (summer 06) as well and just get a minor jump on R600, and for the ultra (G71) to be released with R520, and 32pp G7x to compete against R580...that makes the most sense to me, but the rumor mill seems to be working against that theory, and that G80 will come much sooner than expected.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2492

NoL, ATi has been working on R580 for a long time, and it, unlike R520, actually seems to be on-time, and probably will tape out soon. It's most likely not done, especially since it's supposed to have actual real improvements over R520 (TMU's,much higher clocks, higher % 32pp products working, etc) unlike refresh products of yore, that were basically a clock bump. What's to stop them from releasing it right after R520? Well, it's not done yet, and obviously they need to fix the problems that seemed to have plagued R520 (seemingly low clocks at 90nm, getting quads to work, multi-threading) all the way up even to now. That, and unless R520 really gets killed by nvidia's counterpunch (G71 or whatever) it would hurt R520's sales, as obviously they'd have to lower the price on it right away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtle

I suspected G80 to come out much later (summer 06) as well and just get a minor jump on R600, and for the ultra (G71) to be released with R520, and 32pp G7x to compete against R580...that makes the most sense to me, but the rumor mill seems to be working against that theory, and that G80 will come much sooner than expected.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2492

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I honestly don't see NVIDIA launching THREE flagship graphics cards in one year. I just can't picture that happening. At most, they typically release a flagship, then a fall refresh (clock bump). And I'm not going to bank on a 32-pipe G7x series card either. I'll believe it when I see it from NVIDIA's own mouth. ATI may not even have a fall refresh since they're releasing their card so late. They may wait until winter, maybe even early next year for that. They might, however, release a version of the R520 with more pipes unlocked, who knows.

my 2 cents

They should wait to winter for a refresh so we can all go they clock so amazing when we are out with our computers putting snow in our w/c resevoirs.

It's not really three flagships, more like 2, gtx/u/maybe 32pp G7x (<--same card, minor variations in either pixel pipes and/or clockspeed) and G80. I imagine that if (and that's a big if) the 32pipe nvidia card is released, it will be their refresh part (like R580, but sooner), and just like a gtx or ultra, but with 32pp (5% greater performance per clock over G70/71?), and then G80 from there after R580. I agree though whole-heartedly, launching G80 that quick would seem completely abnormal, and it seems weird if they'd release both the ultra (high-clocked G70) and G7x (32pipe G70). Doesn't make sense to me, and odds are we'll see one or the other, if we see G80 so soon. I wouldn't rule out both though, if G80 is pushed back farther (Which to you and I both would seem like the more logical thing to do.) or the ultra fighting R520, the G7x preemptively striking Ir....R580, and G80 mopping up if need-be.

Yeah, like you said, it's anyone's guess on what the hell nvidia is going to do...But they look pretty set. I guess the big question mark around it all is R580's performance, and how quick nvidia is willing to churn out G80 and how well it in turn could battle against it compared to a 32pipe G70.

A 32-pipe G7x would definitely not be a minor step up, equating to 5% more performance per clock. More like 30%.

Say it's on the 110nm process, and clocks relatively similar to a g70 or g70 ultra. If it has the same amount of vertex shaders, presumbabley 8 extra pipes wouldn't do that much, especially as the % extra pipes added becomes less. (16-->24 is greater than 24-->32)

30%? I don't know about that. If you look at 7800gt's performance (again, yes, in 03 at stock rez which may or may not be a fair representative bench) against a gtx, it performs at 95% of a gtx at the same clock, that's with one less quad and one less vertex shader...and we all know vertex shaders are important. Also, didn't we try tests in another thread about disabling a quad on a nvidia card, with all vertex shaders intact, and it was only like 3% differance?

Granted, you probably know more about this than me, but from what i've seen, the quads themselves arn't making a huge differance, it's the tweaking nvidia did to the core on the gf7 that makes it shine over gf6, and the higher clock speeds themselves on the 110nm process coming from 130nm. Presubabley a 32pipe card would still be 110nm if it was g70-based. If it's 90nm, then crap, that's a completely different story. The clock speeds would surely make it 30% faster. I'm just assuming the G7x with 32 pipes would be a G70 with two extra quads, which in and of themselves wouldn't make a huge differance, but it may be enough (with added clockspeed over gtx) to fight against R520 and R580.

Apologies if i'm missing some glaring point. I hope you don't mind the discussion, and skooling by you to me if need-be. That's just what i've found.

I don't think we're going to see R580 or G80 sooner than 8-10 months from now, the market doesn't require that and ATI/Nvidia won't release even if they already have them prepared, just for the competition's sake. The G70's already look like they can clock 500Mhz+ and have great yelds, so i would only expect a 24pipe 7800Ultra clocked at about 500/1400 or so as a response for the R520.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micutzu

I don't think we're going to see R580 or G80 sooner than 8-10 months from now, the market doesn't require that and ATI/Nvidia won't release even if they already have them prepared, just for the competition's sake. The G70's already look like they can clock 500Mhz+ and have great yelds, so i would only expect a 24pipe 7800Ultra clocked at about 500/1400 or so as a response for the R520.

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While all of that seems logical, only the last part seems probable as R580 really is only a refresh (although looking to be a great refresh) and I do expect it to be launched Q1. I too assume an ultra at 500/1400 to battle R520, as it seems most feasible. Who knows from there though on nvidia's side...I can only gather that they most definately have a gameplan to stay on top, even if it's by inches instead of miles, hence why no ultra is announced until we see what we see what R520 is and can do, and no definate release dates for nvidia's next parts until R580 rears it's head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtle

Say it's on the 110nm process, and clocks relatively similar to a g70 or g70 ultra. If it has the same amount of vertex shaders, presumbabley 8 extra pipes wouldn't do that much, especially as the % extra pipes added becomes less. (16-->24 is greater than 24-->32)

30%? I don't know about that.

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The % increase from 24 to 32 is still 33%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtle

If you look at 7800gt's performance (again, yes, in 03 at stock rez which may or may not be a fair representative bench) against a gtx, it performs at 95% of a gtx at the same clock, that's with one less quad and one less vertex shader...and we all know vertex shaders are important. Also, didn't we try tests in another thread about disabling a quad on a nvidia card, with all vertex shaders intact, and it was only like 3% differance?

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The difference between 20 and 24 pipes is only 20%. Also in this case we're talking two quads, not one. And yes, 3DMark03 probably wouldn't be a fair representation of the performance difference considering that even 05 is somewhat CPU limited on these cards.

I think you overestimate the importance of vertex units, simply because these days performance is almost always shader-pipe-limited, meaning the vertex units have more than enough power to push today's games. So much more that often times they stand idle compared to the work required of the shader pipes. Even the demands of the ROPs outweigh the vertex units because of current software trends.

The test I ran was with a 6600, and the vertex units were not the same. On one configuration I ran 4 pipes at 400MHz, with 1 vertex unit, and 8 pipes at 200MHz with 2 vertex units. The performance difference was merely 3%, in favor of the 4-pipe config. I performed further testing that I didn't post about, and found out that at higher clockspeeds the 8-pipe config turned out slightly faster (about 5%). This flip-flop performance characteristic suggested that there is no advantage between the configurations.

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Originally Posted by turtle

...but from what i've seen, the quads themselves arn't making a huge differance, it's the tweaking nvidia did to the core on the gf7 that makes it shine over gf6, and the higher clock speeds themselves on the 110nm process coming from 130nm.

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The quads along with the new tweaks all had a helping hand. Keep in mind the clockspeeds were barely different between the 6800 Ultra and 7800GTX. 400MHz core versus 430MHz core (a difference of about 8%). The memory clockspeeds only went up 9% (although the 16 ROPs were extremely improved). In fact the only real reason NVIDIA went to 110nm was because it was very viable, practical, well matured by that point, and it was necessary to fit 24 pipes at a reasonable die size.

Clockspeeds weren't really a focus for NVIDIA. Their whole goal was to increase performance using the architecture as the driving force. It was sort of a tactic to get people to recognize the importance of a good architecture rather than just raw pipelines and clockspeed. Not only that, NVIDIA wanted the G70 to run cooler and use less power than the NV45. Not an easy feat.

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Originally Posted by turtle

Presubabley a 32pipe card would still be 110nm if it was g70-based. If it's 90nm, then crap, that's a completely different story. The clock speeds would surely make it 30% faster.

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NVIDIA has already said they were taping out several 90nm parts by the launch of the 7800GTX (see this article). By now those should be fairly close to being ready to launch.

A 32-pipe core on 110nm just wouldn't be possible. You can call this speculation if you like, but it's just going by logic. Already the G70 with 24 pipes has a massive die size, even bigger than the NV40. 32 pipes would make it impossibly big, so moving to 90nm with that part would be a must.

Again, I must emphasize that clockspeeds aren't everything, especially when talking about the sort of architectures NVIDIA employs. Even if your line does see a process shrink, that doesn't automatically mean you're going to shoot up the clockspeeds, as the G70 has proved. A process shrink can be useful for other things, as I've mentioned earlier.