Possible cause of DFI ram deaths.

I moved my dfi to 5v vdimm feed for all of five minutes. Shut down and touched the heatsink right at the corner of the board (Will be right by your cd drives when mounted in a typical case). It gave me a blister. Literally. I've never felt a mobo component get so hot, and this was WITH the heatsink on it. I wouldn't be surprised if this mosfet (I assume that's what's under there) starts crapping out after it gets so hot and this causes wild vdimm fluctuations that kill the ram. Not sure if this has been mentioned already, just posting my experience.

This really upsets me the 5v problem on the DFI, its the only bad thing ( a big one at that). I would like to get some cheap value vx, but it really isnt feasable till the 5v issue is fixed

this occurs by moving the JP17 jumper correct? Just got my DFI board up and running with some Mushkin Redline

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Originally Posted by XtremepH

this occurs by moving the JP17 jumper correct? Just got my DFI board up and running with some Mushkin Redline

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gl with that one, that redline will be toast in no time :slapass:

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Originally Posted by AMD-me

gl with that one, that redline will be toast in no time :slapass:

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i hope not. even though my board acting funny I think I need to flash it to the latest bios since the memory volts won't stick. the board must be trying to tell me something

The best thing you can do to prevent a premature death is to put a fan blowing over both your RAM and the little heatsink on the top right corner of the board. Also, make sure you flash to BIOS 414 or newer. My Mushkin Redline has been running solid since they first came out. I bought it that very night it came out on their website. I've also ran G. Skill UTT modules and OCZ VX modules and none of them are dead. I still think it is user error causing all these RAM deaths.

So put a fan over the mosfets?

I am currently using an XP 120 and have 120MM fan that is extending over them slightly but I have another 80mm one that I am going to position over them after I flash to a new bios. I am reading 510-2 should be good for the Redline since its UTT

I want to unlease my ch-5 but a cant yet because im afriad of the 5v issue

Put my Redline in, did the PSU volt trick and am feeding it 3.3 volts at 250 and 2-2-2-6 with no issues at all. I have a 80 MM fan blowing on my RAM, and a 60 mm over the mosfets.

http://www.dmp-racing.com/king/benchmarks/fan.jpg

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Originally Posted by Trice

Put my Redline in, did the PSU volt trick and am feeding it 3.3 volts at 250 and 2-2-2-6 with no issues at all. I have a 80 MM fan blowing on my RAM, and a 60 mm over the mosfets.

http://www.dmp-racing.com/king/benchmarks/fan.jpg

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howd u mount the fan? I cant figure how to mount a fan

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Originally Posted by Lithan

I moved my dfi to 5v vdimm feed for all of five minutes. Shut down and touched the heatsink right at the corner of the board (Will be right by your cd drives when mounted in a typical case). It gave me a blister. Literally. I've never felt a mobo component get so hot, and this was WITH the heatsink on it. I wouldn't be surprised if this mosfet (I assume that's what's under there) starts crapping out after it gets so hot and this causes wild vdimm fluctuations that kill the ram. Not sure if this has been mentioned already, just posting my experience.

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Yeah, I noticed that too back when I had my VX, so started cooling it with a 60mm fan (mounted on the mobo tray, right next to it).

I found it seemed to help with stability slightly, when using higher volts (less errors from memtest). It did not however stop the VX dying at the time, or my Redline from being killed last week.

While I think it helps and you should defo cool it, I dont think its the cause of the ram death.

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Originally Posted by madpete

Yeah, I noticed that too back when I had my VX, so started cooling it with a 60mm fan (mounted on the mobo tray, right next to it).

I found it seemed to help with stability slightly, when using higher volts (less errors from memtest). It did not however stop the VX dying at the time, or my Redline from being killed last week.

While I think it helps and you should defo cool it, I dont think its the cause of the ram death.

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:(
dam 5v issue :slapass:

I have a very good advice for all of you that strongly believe DFI kills RAM or are affraid to switch to 5v feed...
*** DO NOT USE THIS FEATURE ***! Nobody forces you to do it, so what is the fuss about? This is OPTIONAL feature and you have a choice to use it or not.
Better yet... Do not use high-voltage RAM, ether. Get some TCCD or TCC5 instead, as this will probably make you all feel a lot better. Really. Instead of just jumping from one thread to another and making such a big deal out of it, just forget about anything more than 3.1v. That is more than enough for TCCD/TCC5.

@Lithan,

Have you ever had DFI NF2 Infinity/Lanparty? It had 5v feed, mosfets were hot when board was vdimm-modded, yet it worked perfectly fine for MANY users.
On my particular DFI NF4, heatsinks on vdimm mosfets are not HOT, but more than 3.7v and high LOAD on mems results in backside of the mobo (under heatisnks) to be very hot. Yet, I do not worry about it and I think you shouldn't either. Cool this area properly, that's all what matters.

I used Inf nf2 and several other boards that used 5v for volts and none had any components that came anywhere near how hot this chip gets.

The problem is that currently most of the folks around here and probably anywhere else, has switched to DFI NF4 mobos. Many simply did not have a chance to run UTT memory on anything else than DFI NF4 as UTT has been out for about 6 months now (about same time as DFI NF4). When RAM dies, who do you think they will blame? I think, you have an answer as we all hear those voices of frustrated UTT owners.
I had played with OCZ VX before DFI NF4 came out, on MSI Neo2 and it left a bad taste in my mouth. That's why I keep away from UTT for a time being. I had EXACTLY same symptoms that many describe here.
- One stick dead, other doing OK.
- Inability to get any stability @ 6-2-2-2.0-1T but regaining it for a while when set to 6-2-3-2.0
I repeat, that was on Neo2 + DDR Booster. I went thru 2 sets of VX. When 3rd fresh set came back from RMA I just sold it.

Those are clear idicator that there must be something wrong with RAM or it gets messed up somehow after a while. Which leads me to believe, that amount of voltage applied play quite a bit of a role here as well.

@Lithan,

I assure you, on my DFI NF2 vdimm mosfet was VERY hot beyond 3.6v. Yet board have been folding/docking like crazy for about 6 months straight, 24/7 day and night, @ 3.6vdimm. Never really worried about it as I had a nice fan blowing in that area ;)

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Originally Posted by AMD-me

howd u mount the fan? I cant figure how to mount a fan

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Double sided tape :D

How many UTTs have died on, for example, Abit AN8 SLI?

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Originally Posted by hovo73

How many UTTs have died on, for example, Abit AN8 SLI?

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How many people here actually have a Abit AN8 SLI and UTT? :stick:

I haven't slightest idea, but don't you think we should see at least one or two UTT death on those if it is UTT's fault?

thats why everyone puts a canon that sink, it gets HOT

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Originally Posted by Evil_Spork

thats why everyone puts a canon that sink, it gets HOT

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*offtopic* you evil spork from [M]??

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Originally Posted by XtremepH

i hope not. even though my board acting funny I think I need to flash it to the latest bios since the memory volts won't stick. the board must be trying to tell me something

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I get this issue too... Just don't scroll down in the Genie BIOS window. If you scroll past the Vdimm option then it will reset. Obviously if you need to change something that is past Vdimm then you will have to go back to main menu and back into genie to re-set the vdimm...

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

I have a very good advice for all of you that strongly believe DFI kills RAM or are affraid to switch to 5v feed...
*** DO NOT USE THIS FEATURE ***! Nobody forces you to do it, so what is the fuss about? This is OPTIONAL feature and you have a choice to use it or not. .

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LOL:) Too late for some but very good advice. When I get my X2/DFI combo I will settle for ballistix which can do relativly low latency, still is fast, but does'nt need those high BH-5 and UTT volts. TCCD is another good choice.

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

I have a very good advice for all of you that strongly believe DFI kills RAM or are affraid to switch to 5v feed...
*** DO NOT USE THIS FEATURE ***! Nobody forces you to do it, so what is the fuss about? This is OPTIONAL feature and you have a choice to use it or not. .

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How is that a good advice if that is exactly the reason I bought this board and about 3 or 4 sticks of Winbond memory? How is that a good advice when I have patiently waited close to 2 months for this board to come out (when ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, and others where already out) exactly for this feature. How does your suggestions solve anything?

@hovo73

I'm just being a bit sarcastic, you know? :D
The point I'm trying to make is that, If you have UTT sticks and are affraid to either: (a) use 5v feed -- or -- (b) use more than 3.2v all together, then don't. It's a risk and it seems that you are not willing to take, as you have UTT sticks. Which I perfectly uderstand, because something is wrong with those mems.
DFI has provided end-users with JP17 as an OPTION. From what we gather around the forums, it's seems that overwhelming majority of dead RAM cases has to do with UTT RAM and most of the hysteria comes from those users. There is nothing like "jumper issue"... It's just seems to be the problem with RAM as it somehow gets messed up after some time of using it.

If I were you I would get some 2x256MB of "old school" BH-5 (most of them will definetely do >250Mhz on DFI NF4) and go crazy with volts on them. Bench with it. But for everyday tasks get some TCCD/TCC5 as they are a alot more common these days that 2x512MB "old BH-5". It would make you feel a lot better.

My xp-90 covers one stick of ram nicely but this is how I cool the other and my mosfet, they are zip tied to the bar, the fans are 30 something cfm...

Also I've really cleaned up my wires since this picture :D

bachus_anonym, I understand what you are saying, but I have a better suggestion ...

How about DFI put it shiate back together, and actually come up with solution to this problem instead of bogus excuses? How about that?

I think I like that better :)

PS. Please understand I am not trying to annoy you or anything (i am saying this because i have several exchanges with you on this topic). I just want my damn board to work as advertised. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by hovo73

bachus_anonym, I understand what you are saying, but I have a better suggestion ...

How about DFI put it shiate back together, and actually come up with solution to this problem instead of bogus excuses? How about that?

I think I like that better :)

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Did you read what OscarWu said recently? That's how I look at it...

DFI says everything is OK with the board and there's no "jumper issue" at all...
OCZ and Mushkin reps say RAM is OK and they have literally no RAM being killed in their lab testing...
Now, users have a TON of dead or messed up UTT RAM. Something like this phenomenon has never been happening before. But oddly enough, old BH-5 sticks are not dying and many still have those running flawlessly, including myself. Do you see the picture here? Someone out there is wrong and I think it's not DFI.

Are we back to the argument that only UTT sticks are dying? I thought we were over it?

I agree that the majority of sticks are UTT, because (a) that is what is available right now, (b) if anyone is using TCCD they are very unlikely to use the 5V line, (c) very little "old" BH-5 sticks around, especially 512MB modules, and most people would agree that 2x256 is not enough for today's needs.

But the fact is that non-UTT memory, such as TCCD and "old" BH-5 is also dying.

PS. So you take DFI word for it, but not OCZ and Mushkin? Do I understand it correctly, if not what is the problem than that so many people are getting these problems? It can't be simply because of accident or user error. Why are these sticks not dying on other boards (Abit), or are they?

I can tell you something honestly. If you look at my sig, you will notice that I have 4 sets of RAM, including TCCD. You'd be surprised If I tell you, that I've been running with JP17 on 5v feed, no matter what RAM I used.
Up to 3.1v on TCCD or 3.9v on BH-5. Literally, I'm on 5v feed since day one and never really run it otherwise. According to DFI, I should not use this option as it's unnecesary for TCCD. You know what? I don't care about that because I'm absolutely convinced that it's not the cause of dead RAM. Components on the mobo are not hot (as far as I can tell) untill I crank up vdimm to beyond 3.7v. When I ran 3.0v for TCCD on 5v feed, underside of the mobo was not hot. It only gets hot above 3.7v.

I strongly believe, that it's not that DFI has a problem...

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Originally Posted by hovo73

PS. So you take DFI word for it, but not OCZ and Mushkin? Do I understand it correctly, if not what is the problem than that so many people are getting these problems? It can't be simply because of accident or user error. Why are these sticks not dying on other boards (Abit), or are they?

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That's the problme I mentioned before. We do not have a lot of folks with other NF4 boards and UTT RAM configs. So we cannot tell.
But, like I said above, I had all thogether 3 sets of OCZ VX PC3200 and two of them went back for RMA. Same symptoms as you guys are getting now on DFI NF4. But there's one thing I added... THAT WAS ON NEO2 w/ DDR BOOSTER ;) That's why I do not believe that DFI NF4 is responsible at all.

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

I can tell you something honestly. If you look at my sig, you will notice that I have 4 sets of RAM, including TCCD. You'd be surprised If I tell you, that I've been running with JP17 on 5v feed, no matter what RAM I used.
Up to 3.1v on TCCD or 3.9v on BH-5. Literally, I'm on 5v feed since day one and never really run it otherwise. According to DFI, I should not use this option as it's unnecesary for TCCD. You know what? I don't care about that because I'm absolutely convinced that it's not the cause of dead RAM. Components on the mobo are not hot (as far as I can tell) untill I crank up vdimm to beyond 3.7v. When I ran 3.0v for TCCD on 5v feed, underside of the mobo was not hot. It only gets hot above 3.7v.

I strongly believe, that it's not that DFI has a problem...


That's the problme I mentioned before. We do not have a lot of folks with other NF4 boards and UTT RAM configs. So we cannot tell.
But, like I said above, I had all thogether 3 sets of OCZ VX PC3200 and two of them went back for RMA. Same symptoms as you guys are getting now on DFI NF4. But there's one thing I added... THAT WAS ON NEO2 w/ DDR BOOSTER ;) That's why I do not believe that DFI NF4 is responsible at all.

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So whats ur 24/7 rig then. Or do you just benchmark with 5v line??

Put a fan on that area and it wont be hot at all. Mine's not even warm after hours of memtest @3,5v using 5v rail.

I'm with bachus anonym on this one. Nobody is making you use the 5V line and the fact that you waited 2 months for the board is not a good reason to if you are afraid of your ram dying. I have some old school BH-5 running 3.7V daily and everything has been fine. I think the reason we have so many complaints is that everyone has a DFI as stated previously, since it is the board of choice. So of course we are going to get a lot more reports of this board and the pointing game will keep going back and forth.

But as always with overclocking, dead components are part of the risk and whether or not to take the risk is your own choice.

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Originally Posted by AMD-me

So whats ur 24/7 rig then. Or do you just benchmark with 5v line??

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Currently I'm on:
- very trusty, over 1.5yr old Abit NF2 with every possible vmod done, running 2x256MB BH-5 @ 3.5v since almost day1. This PC has been crunching for DC projects for most of it life, day or night, 24/7. It's always turned ON, I ocassionally reset it for maintenence. Main day-to-day PC.
- 5mos old DFI NF4, on "5v feed" since day1. Before I mounted phase change cooler on it (until 2mos ago), it was run 24/7 with Gskill @ 3.0v 290 6-3-3-2.5-1T. Then it mostly run on 2x256MB Mushkins @ 3.8v 263 6-2-2-2.0-1T Mhz (3.6v is actually enough, but I didn't change it as I use 3.8v for benching :)), for about 12hrs/day. Currently, I'm awaiting new CPU, so rig should be back online early next week.
- I used to have MSI K8N Neo2 and DFI NF2 Infinity. Literally, every board I had run with vdimm north of 3.5v for 24/7 operation with BH-5. Neo2 worked great 24/7 (day-night 100% LOAD) @ 3.5v 256MHz 6-2-2-2.0-1T with OCZ VX3200 until mems died few weeks later. Got a new pair and soon same happened. Since then, I ditched UTT.

Please, try to look at it with your eyes very wide open. Don't get carried away, as many others did, by all the hysteria. I'm not surprised now, as DFI made HIGH VOLTAGE OVERCLOCKING a mainstream trend, not like it used to be before - reserved only for experienced users, eager to volt-mod their boards and take the risk.
Seems like many folks around still don't get it:
DFI gives you the tools that DO WORK properly, but cannot be responsible what you do with it. They ship the boards with JP17 in 3.3v position. Once you chose to switch it to 5v, you sign a waiver called "DFI is not responsible for RAM being killed due to use of extensive voltage", whatever RAM manufacturers claim is safe.
OCZ, Mushkin, etc... overclock Winbond chips that normally would be rated @ 200Mhz 6-2-2 2.7v. For them to achieve an e.g. 250Mhz 6-2-2-2.0 they NEED to raise voltage requirement, to e.g. 3.3v. That is already out of spec. Whatever they claim, you need to keep in mind that components run out of spec MIGHT die sooner. That's why they HAVE to give you a warranty for 3.3v as this is what is required to run them. But sticks MIGHT die @ 3.3v, manufacturers NEED to know that (I'm sure THEY DO) and have to be ready to give you replacement. They entered the area with high-voltage/high freq products where they need to be ready for stuff to die.
... and this is what is happening...

Another point is, that with UTT-CH5 based modules, there is one unknown factor - life expectancy when over-volted.
Not many people have run "real CH-5", months back, at anything north of 3.2v. CH-5 did not have much success and did not gain too much enthusiasm within OCers then. CH-5 surfaced again with introduction of Winbond UTT chips. So only now we are finding out how CH-5 behaves under new circumstances. Something messes up with those sticks. I don't know if ICs die or SPD chips get messed up. But certainly something seems to be wrong.

OK, I'm done... I wrote too much already :lol:

Somebody mentioned a good point earlier about this, and It seems feasible. Isn't CH-5 a newer, smaller process than BH-5? If UTT is a relative to that wouldn't that also be on a smaller process?
I'm certainly no expert, but even I know the smaller the process the less volts you can run thru it without burning it up. If these are more delicate chips and they run well right up to the burnout point, they probably wont give you too many obvious signs before they fry.
Either that or there's a wide inconsistancy in the process' voltage tolerance, and people are seeing what other guys do and find out the hard way that their particular chips cant handle that much voltage.

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Originally Posted by hovo73

bachus_anonym, I understand what you are saying, but I have a better suggestion ...

How about DFI put it shiate back together, and actually come up with solution to this problem instead of bogus excuses? How about that?

I think I like that better :)

PS. Please understand I am not trying to annoy you or anything (i am saying this because i have several exchanges with you on this topic). I just want my damn board to work as advertised. Thanks.

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It's impossible for any MB company to gurantee and be responsible for the damage due to Over Voltage and Over Clocking ...

Remember ... In Fact , even 2.8V VDIMM is not guranteed for some dram ...

If you use 2.8V memory in MSI or ASUS board but the DIMM is dead , what will MSI or ASUS told you about this problem ? Will they say " Yes , our board kill the memory and will be reponsible for this ? "

If the problem belongs to the memory chip but not the board , how DFI can do to this problem ??? :confused:

Until now , we did not get a firm anwser that it's the board kill the memory chip ... If it's this case , DFI must do something to this ... But if it's not the case , I really don't think DFI can do anything ...

We are extreme overclocker , but we still need to know that overclocking and over voltage is not riskless and gurantee by the company until they say clearly about it ...

One important thing now ... And let's why I also think UTT is the trouble maker ...

We did not see 1st tier memory module company such as " KINGSTON " or " CORSAIR " have any UTT type DRAM product ... There must be something wrong for them to skip UTT DRAM product ...

I agree with bachus_anonym here, My old BH-5 is fine (although I'm only running 3.33v through them 24/7) and so is eva2000's and pretty much everyone else who is running 5v jumper with BH-5 ram. And the point that Corasir and Kingston havent made any products that run above 2.86v using UTT is also mor proof that UTT is probaly the cause of this RAM death.

But, and this is a big but. The DFI NF4 board when on the 5v jumper, supplys 2.7v to the ram, when the PC is switched off, after the AC power cord removed and then plugged in again. This is the casuse of the cold boot issues, and could contribute to the ram death's. Maybe?

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Originally Posted by loc.o

Put a fan on that area and it wont be hot at all. Mine's not even warm after hours of memtest @3,5v using 5v rail.

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Yeah, I did that and with a fan aimed at it it's barely warm. I'm running it out of case so the only air on it was whatever could hit it from my heatsink fan.

this issue IS a problem, alone because of the critisism.......i just put my pc4000VX into the board, and got unsure of what to do...cooling the RAM, mosfets actively i should have done what i could to prevent the ram dying situation......but then somewhere in my old memory something popped to the surface........i read somewhere in her that it is possible only to move 1 jumper and then get 3.5v option...not the full 4v ...can anyone point me to that post....?

overvolting your ram is your decision, but we do need to figure out if it IS the Ram or if it IS the board... you could make accusaitons at both sides, like

its untested so it could be a cheaper process and lead to sooner death
its a smaller and more delicate chip than the bh-5 so less tolerance

and on the mobo side

we all know that mobo manufacturers often skimp on voltage cleanup and regulation to components... we all see that with cpu idle/load voltages and the same for ram, etc.... motherboard manufacturers could spend more and put in a power feed thad dosent droop... i mean heck, i can use a simple pencil and trace over 1 resistor and clean up the voltage and have a .01 droop on the vcore with my NF7-s.... so obviously that with the 5v jumper set that the voltage may be unclean and posibaly speratic when put under load at boot... i mean really, your running IC's that spec at 2.8v and alot of them are dieing at 3.4+ volts, but when the board applies the voltages it basically jams it through the stick from the initial 2.7v that the bios applies to "find the sitcks"

you could argue eitherway.... we do need to find a solution though

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

I can tell you something honestly. If you look at my sig, you will notice that I have 4 sets of RAM, including TCCD. You'd be surprised If I tell you, that I've been running with JP17 on 5v feed, no matter what RAM I used.
When I ran 3.0v for TCCD on 5v feed, underside of the mobo was not hot. It only gets hot above 3.7v.

I strongly believe, that it's not that DFI has a problem...

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Micheal... I would very strongly suggest you don't do the <3V when on the 5V jumper anymore... at least using the standard jumper config ;) Put your finger on D8/D7 in the corner on top of the board....

Peace :toast:

Daniel,

I know, I know... I kind of :) forgot to say, that I use BH-5 on a daily basis, more than TCCD - at least recently. I'm not saying that everybody should stay on 5v no matter what. I was just trying to prove my point, that there's no danger in using JP17 to source vdimm from 5v rail :)

ygpm :)