Printable View
Well I don't have a clue how this is going to respond to load at first I couldn't get any better than -65 from it then I got to thinking (Tendrils of smoke rising) and I had an couple ideas.. so this is the result......
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=28983&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=28984&stc=1
well thats one heck of an improvement you got there. i just hope that it can keep temps like that under load.. that would be quite amazing.
I say we mount it to the Dothan tomorrow and take the world record with it.
That is nice.
Kind of interested in Tendrils of smoke rising and how that was achieved. Great work
Yeah, no kidding.... that thing combined with the low heat output of Dothan would be AWESOME! WTG, Chilly1!!! VERY interesting creation there ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
:thumbsup:
C
Nice temps! GREAT job :up:
Ya I said it was done but.... now I can ship it.. I am happier with -90... or should I add a little R14 to see what happens????Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
I see a polycold case.. is that this unit?
Did you ever get that gas blend anywhere near right?
Temps look nice :)
Hehehe...that's gonna' be one of the FINEST GPU coolers on the planet!Quote:
Originally Posted by chilly1
So, in a nutshell, how does the thing work? What is inside the foam?? Like freekin' 10 HX's or something?? And why did it use those expansion tanks??
C
more pics and gasses used :D
do you think it could hold -70 loaded?
I dont know if he will say all the gases he used.... But he used a lot of gases beleive me;).
I see the temperature, but I don't see the unit. More pics please?
Dont add the R14
Let it run for 10 ~ 20 hours straight.
is it one of those "supercoolers" that were selling cheap on ebay AGES ago? i think Fugger got one, so did charlie but the gas mixture was a massive problem
we want r14, well done chilly1
what type of valves ya using, and is it a DIY hx
Cmon show us how
Very nice temps but with all due respect, that doesn't help us.. The way HOW you did it is more interesting :)
i wonder who will be the first to get to -100c with just one compressor?
push it some more chilly1 :toast:
I think that's a challenge, Chilly1 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
C
This thing has been a challange as it is. I will try R14 just caus I can!
Already Ran 14 hrs straight on restarg it goes to -70C in a few min and gradually creeps down to -90 over teh next couple hours bottomong out at -92 to -95 and stays there for 20 hours as long as I ran it, head exposed to air load only (6 sqin at -90 ambient of 22C and 1.4 inch frost )Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
not bad at all, now put it on dothan lol.
chilly tell em how many HX's it has.. lol... its just not funny...
so how is it doing with the R14??
How about some pics?? :stick: :stick: :stick:
DID it autocascade at -100C.. R14/R115/R410/R402/R401/R416/R410/R290
just kept at it.. load sucks like 60 watts.
http://www.blairwing.com/images/charlie/1.jpg
More refrigerants than you can count on one hand :eek: I didn't even know half of them existed. Nice work!
8 gases does that means 8 stages or have you managed to combine multiple gases in each stage? how big a compressor is it?
Wow this is awesome :eek:
Just insane:O
Congrats! This is a nice achievement! :woot:
refridgerant :banana::banana::banana::banana:tail :toast:
hmmm ? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chilly1
the low capacity isin't really surprising.. thats the big issue it seems with autocascades. Must be two kinds of 410 now.. lol
anyway, great job :toast:
damn thats impressive, too bad it cant take the load.
Reggie why not try sticking a pre cooling loop on there. You could use a small hermetic to sub-cool. I have heard a cop increase of 1.5x, worth a dabble?
Regards
John.
Wow.what a exercise in chemistry,I would be interested in hearing why and what each gas did.Thats quite a mix you got!!!! :clap: very impressive!!!! :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by chilly1
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkiing
410A & 410B
ps: what was low side pressure? I can't seem to find the the right P/T chart :D
:slap: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
sheeeeesh...... crazy!
Another "first" for Chilly1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
C
Dam man...congrats...you must have alot of spare time...Makes me wanna hang out in Vegas for a little longer next time through... :toast:
It's like a witches brew LOL
G
hey chilly1 I was wondering, do you build cascades and cooling for a living now?
Not really it is still an expense. I still have to work 40 hours a week to make ends meet. I probably could if I had a bigger shop and were able to get some help here in Vegas.
Well it's your cooler... Just tuning it for hiugher loads prolly gonna land at -60 to -80C when done.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
Pythag a second compressor?? well might as well make it a cascade with a second stage as autocascade.. ( NEXT project is a three stage with an autocascade third ... fourth??)
What each gas did///
I added 50 psi ethlyene then added some R12 until I got a little temp drop on the head then I added R14 until I got an even greater drop then I added R402 until the temp reached -70 then I had to go back anf forth adn I saw that some gasses made it colder and others warmer but I could add a little R14 and R1150 and it would be colder than it was..I think this is a 2 stage autocascade. There is a Primary expansion tank and a secondary expansion tank. all the refrigerant is in vapor phase at room temperature the static form at final charge was 80 psi. So I added only verysmall amounts of these gasses/ It is going to cost a fortune disposing on all the gasses I took out of this puppy mix gas disposal is 35 per pound... and I got at least 10 lbs of unknown blends to toss.
Final blend was a complete unknown but -100C on a 2 stage cascade is possiable.. what loads etc is also an unknown.
is it because of the expansion tank that the static pressure is so low.
what sorta hx did you use.
well done on the temps also.
do you have any ethane chilly1 that would help and some isobutane to help loaded temps and start up
Maybe but the gasses Iused are si,,ilar in P/T but a little more massive have to look into the relationship between teh mass and suitability for autocascades there has to be some correlation that will tell us what blends will work and which won't..
I thought you may have had some guidance from a chemist as what to try to mix, quit a accomplishment to come up with that mix on your own!!!! your right to the price of cross contaminated gas, but your only charged if you turn it in, for less than the price of processing 2 pounds you can buy a recovery tank to store 24#. no law on storing it afik. just hope the stored gas dosen't leak out. ;)
I dont think this would be the same as cascading two compressors, the pre-cooling compressor could be any size from really small upto whatever.
The autocascade is set up now so that the condensor handles the load of the evap and the compressor. Therefore if you add a pre-cooling loop after the condensor of the autocascade its simply there to remove watts of heat from the liquid and gas stream.
Any watts removed here will increase capacity at the evap head. Thats my thoughts anyway :(
Regards
John.
no it wouldn't be the same but I just think chilly wanted to get to -100c with one compressor,at least he kept track of what he put in,but not how much. sounds like moms home cooking,a pinch of this and a dab of that!!!! Mom (chilly) will just have to hold cooking classes!!!
Congrats to Chilly1 :toast: Never a dull moment with you around. ;)
:woot:
welcome me to the club guys...
She came home to DADDY today!!!
My first phase change, too.
C
have fun with your baby charly;)
what kind of temps you looking at charlie?
He told me non of them would put out. :slap: self :mad: . Stress full day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
I would be interested in the temperatures too ;)
Regards
John.
charlie we want some nice pics (this thread) once ya got it going.
Autocascade for you first phase change unit, ya a bit spoilt, now punish that WR :toast:
Hi Chilly 1,
It looks like you have a Polycold P-75 or P-100. That thing should do -120c.
The mix is most likely R-123, R-22, R-23, R-14 and Argon. If you are still playing with this let me know and I will come up with a gas charge for it. If you leave out the argon it won't get as cold but should handle more load.
I have P-75 that I use for cryo tempering.
I have a system that I get -170c out of.
-170 wow
what kind of load it holds?
:welcome: to XS :D
That you just have to post some pictures of, Im already drawling :slobber:Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
Holy thread revival batman!!!
Welcome to the forums cryo-tek, yes, post piccies of your auto-c please!
(Just a quick FYI that auto-c belonged to charlie, and if I'm not mistaken it now belongs to s7e9h3n.)
condensing argon with R14?Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
http://www.airliquide.com/en/busines...r_Pressure.GIF
the critical point of argon is -122, sounds like very dangerous bussiness to me.
I'm the current owner of the unit ;) It's been retuned an regassed by Chilly1 to bottom out @ around -87C on the evap and is able to hold temps @ ~-70C @ ~180-200W. If you're really serious about knowing the charge to get this unit to do -120C WITHOUT it taking 1.5 hours to get to that temp :p: - I currently have to wait ~20min for the unit to drop to a decent operating temperature - please drop me a PM so I can discuss this with Chilly. He's a busy guy these days and probably will miss this post :rolleyes: Also, would the modified cooling head play a part in the temps acheived by the unit? Look forward to hearing from you :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
sweet reallyt nice
Hi Unknown_road,Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
You're correct, the critical point of argon is -122c at about 47 bar. Check out the critical point of R-14.
My discharge pressures are around the 15 bar mark. So I need -150c to condense argon at 100% argon. The argon is only about 15% of the mix so now I need -173c.
What does the argon do? Two thoughts. One is that it changes the partial pressure of the R-14 allowing the R-14 to evaporate colder that the suction pressure normally allows. Thought two is that it acts like glycol in water and changes the evaporating point of the R-14. What do I know for sure; adding argon to an auto cascade will drive up the discharge pressure and temp. and It will lower the evaporator temp. I can have a -150c evaporator temp with a 2 bar evaporator pressure. What does your R-14 PT chart say? I hope I have these pressures right, I had to convert to bar on the fly.
What are your thoughts on this? Until I found this site I was in the cold with no one to talk to.
this mix is ok just with R-14 or is ok with other gas ?
Could you give some more info about the autocascade we are talking about here. How many stages is it? Do you know the temperature of the "last" heat exchanger?
http://www.airliquide.com/en/busines...r_Pressure.GIF
Hehehehe....Turns out that Cryo-Tek lives relatively close to me. I'm going to try to have him take a look at my auto-cascade and see what we can do with it. Maybe it's time for my auto to go sub -100C :D
welcome cryo-tek !!!
:toast: :toast: :toast:
Hay unknown road, Where do you find the pressure temperature curves that you post? They would be very helpful in understanding the Autocascade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
Zeotropes are normally defined at 0psi G and an average ambient temp of maybe between 25 and 35C, it could be that r14 and argon form a zeotrope at sub zero C, as autocascades are so specialised you would not find many references to this and hence not see anywhere that r14 and argon was a zeotropic mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by cryo-tek
Just speculation basd on the evidence, on my part, so dont hold me to that:D
Regards
John.
I thought about that John, but I think it's a little weird a very inert gas like argon would form such a blend (even zeotropic). But it could be possible, maybe it acts like a impurity such like ions in water lowering the boiling point of water.
personnaly I think it works a little different, little thought experiment:
when you have a perfectly insulated and closed bucket of water, you make 2 holes in it. in 1 hole you put a hose from witch dry nitrogen flows, the other hole is the exhaust. because the nitrogen is very dry, the water has the affinity to evaporate into the nitrogen faster as it normally would (when you leave a glass of water standing for a few days it will be empty although the water in it never reached boiling point) . When you compress the nitrogen after it comes out of the bucket the absorbed water will condens and form a liquid again.
Because the water in the bucket evaporates the liquid water cools down. phase-change without boiling ;)
Because the load temp of the polycold autocascade is the same as you would expect it from pure r14 I think this is what is happing in the system. @ no load, when the evap temp reaches -130 or something, the r14 stops boiling but not evaporating. argon has the "absorbing" effect twice that of nitrogen. So the argon works something like a spong for evaporating and thus allowing it to cool down futher.