x800XL pci-e or x800pro pci-e? Need help deciding

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03-21-2005, 12:28 PM
Damien

x800XL pci-e or x800pro pci-e? Need help deciding

Well I need some help deciding. I may be considering getting a venice with a pci-e board with one of these 2 video cards. The problem is I cant figure out which to get. They are both in the same price range (newegg has the pci-e x800pro for like $280?!?!), so I need help deciding. I will be putting a VGA silencer on it reguardless of the card, so that may make the decision easier. I hear the x800XL is right in the same ballpark as the x800pro, but is the pci-e x800pro any good? It will definetly be one of these 2 cards, unless someone has a better card for less than $300

Thanks :toast:
03-21-2005, 06:06 PM
SLaY3r07

X800 XL :banana2:
03-21-2005, 07:14 PM
chunkylover77

I think you will get alot more views of this thread if you put it in the xtreme3d section.
03-22-2005, 01:59 PM
enzoR

yea do that. i say the XL
03-22-2005, 05:00 PM
Gautam

Show me an XL that can pull this off on air

http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/3d03.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/3dm05.JPG

Oh wait, I'm afraid none exist. :D
03-22-2005, 05:18 PM
Smokin_Joe

Niiiiiiice

Is that a 12pipe or 16pipe pro? I'm trying to decide too. I ordered a sapphire x800pro pci-e from newegg but i'm wondering if i should cancel and get the XL for a few bucks more. Looking at the orb, the pro's are wompin on the xl's, but it's hard to tell the difference between the stock pro's vs the modded ones and pci-e vs agp.
03-22-2005, 05:52 PM
Gautam

12 pipes only, 05 record, and 03 WHQL record, but a handful have broken 14k on phase change :D
03-23-2005, 10:57 AM
WiCKeD

Get the VIVO and flashomundo. :cool:
03-24-2005, 07:10 AM
krille

Yeah get a VIVO and unlock all pipes, then OC to XT PE levels.
03-24-2005, 08:21 AM
Smokin_Joe

Well i was going to but decided i wanted to get something that was a sure thing. The X800pro vivo pci-e's are definately not a sure thing when it comes to modding and i don't think i would be comfortable with slicing my x800pro core with a knife.:p
03-26-2005, 01:41 PM
Damien

Yeah, I hear the vivo pro pci-e isn't very reliable with pipe unlocking, otherwise I'd definetly do that. I'll probably end up getting the XL, unless i can be convinced the x800pro vivo pci-e is a better choice.
03-26-2005, 01:44 PM
Damien

Forgot to mention, does the XL with the power plug have a guaruntee of a better overclock than one without, or is this not true? If it clocks better i'm willing to shell out $340 for one with a power plug
03-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Smokin_Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienKC

Forgot to mention, does the XL with the power plug have a guaruntee of a better overclock than one without, or is this not true? If it clocks better i'm willing to shell out $340 for one with a power plug

So far from what i've been reading it doesn't help much if anything at all.
04-10-2005, 01:54 PM
DazzXP

The XL are rebinned XT/XT PE that couldn't make it to the 500MHz range.
04-10-2005, 06:22 PM
evilentity

Quote:

Originally Posted by DazzXP

The XL are rebinned XT/XT PE that couldn't make it to the 500MHz range.

No, they're a different architecture entirely 110nm vs 130nm for the x850xt/xt pe. There is an AIW x800xl that new egg is selling that is a rebadged x800xt, but its agp only.
04-11-2005, 08:45 AM
187(V)URD@

I should go for the X800XL since it got 16 pipelines and performance better then the 800pro on stocks.

http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5716.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5717.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5718.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5719.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5720.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5723.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5725.png
http://www.team-mighty.com/chz/5727.png
04-11-2005, 09:07 AM
Smokin_Joe

I did and i don't regret it. It's a great deal:banana:
04-17-2005, 02:36 AM
pancake

me to. most people can get over 13000 in 03 with ease on air and stock volts
04-17-2005, 02:58 AM
HardcoreNL

With overclocking buy a X800PRO-Vivo without go for the X800XL
04-20-2005, 04:50 PM
winston64

would one of those x800 XL get to like x850 XT levels with OCs? I'm talking after a voltmod... I'm planning on buying one and i'm trying to see where I could expect to get it to under water, and then phase. Can I expect x850XT benches under water w/ voltmod? how about with phase change :stick:
04-21-2005, 12:21 PM
HardcoreNL

Maybe, they aren't that good overclockers. Actually they realy suck in overclocking.
04-21-2005, 07:23 PM
__TRONIK__

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gautam

Show me an XL that can pull this off on air

Oh wait, I'm afraid none exist. :D

actually, you seem to be getting stuck on gpu clocks. lots of Xl's score higher than yo in benches.
04-22-2005, 01:52 PM
Gautam

Lol, that post is a month old. And by "lots" I guess you mean two scores in 03 that are both using phase change, and 1 score in 05 also phase change on both CPU and GPU... so it still stands, even today when half the internet went out and bought these X800XL's, not a single one has been able to top me 100% air...
04-28-2005, 05:55 PM
Pivo504

i plan to go with a x800 XL as well!
05-14-2005, 05:45 AM
mike

good luck with the XL - the pro would have been a better choice
05-14-2005, 05:55 AM
__TRONIK__

BS dude. I have had both. The XL is a better card. The pipes make a difference. A big one. In benchmarking, but also in image quality and game responsiveness. by the way, my XL has been running at 585/615. those are better clocks than I could coax from my old VIVO->XT PE. The Pro I had could clock well but wouldnt score for nuthin
05-14-2005, 10:55 AM
sinsinking

How about temperature between two?
X800XL or X800PRO cooler on ari
05-14-2005, 04:33 PM
Gautam

Quote:

Originally Posted by __TRONIK__

BS dude. I have had both. The XL is a better card. The pipes make a difference. A big one. In benchmarking, but also in image quality and game responsiveness. by the way, my XL has been running at 585/615. those are better clocks than I could coax from my old VIVO->XT PE. The Pro I had could clock well but wouldnt score for nuthin

There's a huge difference between an old AGP VIVO and a brand new PCI-E versie. Those are some sick clocks from the XL though. :up:
05-15-2005, 06:44 AM
ewitte

Quote:

Originally Posted by __TRONIK__

BS dude. I have had both. The XL is a better card. The pipes make a difference. A big one. In benchmarking, but also in image quality and game responsiveness. by the way, my XL has been running at 585/615. those are better clocks than I could coax from my old VIVO->XT PE. The Pro I had could clock well but wouldnt score for nuthin

:slobber: I'm only pulling 435/565 off of mine. I could take it you got more memory because of 1.6ns ram. How did you pull that off for core?
05-16-2005, 05:22 PM
mike

I guess it's time for a X800XL vs X800PRO shootout...my money is on the X800PRO
05-16-2005, 06:35 PM
__TRONIK__

I pulled it off with voltmods - if you wanna be xtreme, find your way around a soldering iron ;-)
and nope, my ram is 2.0ns. I heard a rumor long, long ago that 2.0ns ram was 1.6 with a bit less voltage. I buy it.

hey mikie - you might be the first ever ATI "pro" fanboy. check my sig - pull that off with a pro...no excuses please...
I'm glad you like you pro, and you did get a good one. but this is getting silly...
05-17-2005, 04:26 AM
mike

Lol big words...big words Tronik - I guess you wanna play? I beat you - you become a "pro" Fanboy - you beat me - I become a "XL' fanboy - k? No excuses please - otherwise it really would get silly. GPU vs GPU - 05 would be the game
05-17-2005, 10:15 AM
Gautam

If all XL's end up overclocking like Tronik's they'd be worth it for sure...but that's more than what even plenty of XT's can muster up. Are the XL's getting better, or is that card just a freak, that's the question. Because the average XL ends up behind my Pro almost all of the time. I usually am even with the phase change scores completely on air.
05-17-2005, 11:30 AM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gautam

If all XL's end up overclocking like Tronik's they'd be worth it for sure...but that's more than what even plenty of XT's can muster up.

I agree with you. Of the 3 X800PRO that I had so far - with all I was able to break 6200 in 3Dmark05 on air with stock voltages - a fast CPU obivously helps - but much less in 05 than in 01 and 03. At least the latest PCI-E seem to be very solid in terms of overclocking. I can't vouch for the AGP versions - but they seem to be even nicer with the 1.6ns memory...
Most X800XL appear to be pretty poor overclockers - from what I read. Stock the 800XLs are faster - no doubt about that.
05-17-2005, 11:38 AM
__TRONIK__

well then I guess I am doubly lucky - eradicators former #1 card was one I voltmodded and sold to him. It was giving me good clocks, and gave him even more. sometimes the overclock depends on the overclocker.
and I'm not sure what you are talking about mike, but if that means you are going to go and break 37k on your pro...by all means, please do. I'll order one that night.
05-17-2005, 11:50 AM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by __TRONIK__

and I'm not sure what you are talking about mike,

What I ment to say is that I'll break your 3DMark05 record easily with my X800PRO and that I offer as a wager that the looser has to praise the other's card (you'll become a "PRO" Fanboy...maybe in your signature - "I wish I had a PRO"...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by __TRONIK__

but if that means you are going to go and break 37k on your pro...by all means, please do. I'll order one that night

Sorry let's not bother with 3DMark01 - especially since I am on Intel - it turn it into CPU vs CPU rather than GPU vs GPU...don't you agree?
05-17-2005, 02:16 PM
Gautam

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeguava

What I ment to say is that I'll break your 3DMark05 record easily with my X800PRO and that I offer as a wager that the looser has to praise the other's card (you'll become a "PRO" Fanboy...maybe in your signature - "I wish I had a PRO"...)

lol, sounds like fun. Count me in for the 37k challenge, my Pro's ram sucks too hard for me to match you folks in 05.
05-17-2005, 02:49 PM
__TRONIK__

doesn't have to be a bet....
alot of what we do here at xtreme is show what hardware is capable of - that does not have to extend only to FX's and SLi, but also run of the mill stuff. I think we have shown what an XL can do, and it is pretty cool. You have already shown what a pro can do, and it is pretty cool too. show us some more!
In this specific situation, a guy wants to know what card to get - I'd say XL every day of the week and twice sunday, you disagree, and that is cool. maybe showing your max in 05 will help his decision. Keep in mind If we really want to help we will show what we can do with AA and AF jacked, since that is how most with good specs game. And the XL may have an advantage there inherently, since those extra pipes are not just for show.
and yes I agree, 01 would not prove much. bench away guys - not so we can talk smack to each other but to help this guy choose.

and remember, so long as he chooses ATI and not Nvidia, he is a the real winner ;)
05-17-2005, 03:50 PM
Gautam

I still think the Pro is a nice choice, I would've said nicer, but after seeing those benchies of yours...hot damn...but look at the margins by which you're destroying 2nd place in all three 3dmarks....you've got way, way, way more than an average card. So far, all of my benchmarks have been 100% air, and I don't consider it anywhere near the best card out there.

This fanboy stuff is just in good fun :toast: . I'd have to say I'm pretty lukewarm on which to recommend, toss a quarter maybe?
05-17-2005, 05:07 PM
__TRONIK__

I think we both have above average cards, and perhaps we are a bit more than average overclockers ;)
and I think the real answer is, these are both great cards for sub-$300. I'd break it down like this - if you arent going to overclock, x800xl (and what are you doing here)
if you are going to use air/water, go pro (and crosss fingers for flashable too) if you are going xtreme cooling, go XL. these xls are 110nm and do throw a lot of heat under speed+volts. the 130nm pros do not get nearly as hot.
cheers my friends
05-18-2005, 01:24 AM
teko

Got mine XL running 485/540, WC on core, and profiles on mem.. Got one with 2,0ns, a pretty crappy version it seems, as others has got their 2,0ns above 560.. I never got to made any mods on it though, that might have helped me a bit ;) Would choose the XL, unless you can get a used pro that you are sure can be opened or is an extreme clocker..
05-23-2005, 07:30 PM
Damien

Jeez, never realized how popular this thread became, lol.

I think I'm going to go for an x800pro pci-e. My plans? Best air cooling I can get, along with a voltmod, and overclocking the ever living sh....stuff out of it.

Anyone got clocks/scores for voltmodded x800pro pci-e?

Edit : Which of the x800pro's are the best o/c'ers on newegg? Guatum, which one did you use?
05-24-2005, 04:22 AM
mike

The X800PRO PCI-E I got was the same as this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814102496R
$205 shipped.
I actually have had 2 of the same Sapphire 100600SR refurbished cards.

The first one did 600/585 (core/memory) with stock volts and stock cooling with a 3DMark05 of 6200
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=781752

The second card I purchased refurbished from Newegg did 621/589 with stock 1.39 volts and stock cooling and scored a 3Dmark of 6400.

Only with better Peltier cooling this card did 680/605 with a 3DMark05 of close to 6800.

A tiny bit of pencil for 1.43v on the vgpu the card did 695/605 and higher CPU overclocks 3DMark05 was just a few points off the 7k mark.

Attempting to do the hardmods I messed up the card and it is currently at ViperJohn for some fixing - but I forsee at least 7200 on the 3DMark05 with that card being fully voltmodded ( if it can be fixed again...)

From my experience ( I had 3 X800PRO PCI-E ) all Pros overclock very well, probably because the weakest pipes get locked.

Cooling helps a lot on these cards 50C difference gave me an extra 60mhz on the core - but be aware - there a few cards that can have a cold bug ( that goes for all x800/x850)
On my X850 the same 50C drop actually only gave me 35mhz on the core - not sure whether this is a coincidence - or that there is a reason due to extra 4 pipes.

Enjoy your card and good luck with the OCs
05-24-2005, 08:00 AM
Damien

Thanks for the info! So you're saying I can pretty much trust a refurb card? I bet they were sent back because they were failed flash attempts, you think?
05-24-2005, 09:31 AM
mike

Hard to say - my guess is some are failed flash , but more of them are refurb, because people don't always double check wether the card is PCI-E and AGP. I think the cards I got are all the latter - any overclocker would have been happy with either card and porbably not returned them.

If you get the SR most likely you'll get the full retail package - in my case ot came with all adapters, games and drivers.

Trusting refurbs? From Newegg - yes - I only once had a bad experience with refurb items - got a CPU and motherboard which were dead - not sure which of the 2 were bad - but newegg refunded both items asap.

As much as I understand - you'll stilll have the full warranty.

Another great thing about the refurbs are - you usually can sell them off without any loss on ebay.
I have been doing that with X850Xts looking for a good clocker. When they have bad OCs - off to ebay. And if you're lucky you can even make a couple of bucks....
05-27-2005, 11:08 AM
Damien

the day I go to order my refurbed x800pro for $205, it's not there...
05-27-2005, 11:27 AM
n00b 0f l337

Lately, I have seen and heard the following. Almost all x800pro's that are rosewill, BBA, connect3d, or sapphire are laser cut. :( Only gigabyte's and some others can be brought to 16 pipes now. Still without vmods i've got 470/560 on my x800xl. I plan to vmod sometime this weekend maybe and shoot for more... much more.
05-27-2005, 11:29 AM
Damien

I know they are lasercut, I don't mind 12 pipes because they are killer overclockers. I just didn't want to spend more than $220 for one...just 2 days ago it was in stock for $205, now it's gone. Now I have to spend $260 to get a brand new retail SR card :\
05-27-2005, 11:49 AM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienKC

I know they are lasercut, I don't mind 12 pipes because they are killer overclockers. I just didn't want to spend more than $220 for one...just 2 days ago it was in stock for $205, now it's gone. Now I have to spend $260 to get a brand new retail SR card :\

If you can wait - they'll come back - every few days they have them. I actually have one awaiting payment...
with a bit of patience you'll find another one...
05-27-2005, 11:51 AM
Damien

The thing is, I don't think I can wait. I have to ship off this pc by next friday. Honestly, I think I'll just suck it up and spend the $260. After all, If I hit 600+ core, I'd still consider that worth the $260.
05-27-2005, 04:39 PM
mike

I just released my $203 X800PRO SR on ebay ( I purchased it using the Paypal option but didn't send the paypal payment yet - this way your order gets held for a few days...) - It should be up again tonight or tomorrow. Check ASAP
05-28-2005, 11:00 AM
Damien

I checked, and I ordered :D

So here's what I ordered last night @ the egg

Refurbed X800pro pci-e
Refurbed DFI Ultra-D
Lite-On DVD-RW drive

Man, this feels like christmas for me :D
05-28-2005, 01:28 PM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienKC

I checked, and I ordered :D

So here's what I ordered last night @ the egg

Refurbed X800pro pci-e
Refurbed DFI Ultra-D
Lite-On DVD-RW drive

Man, this feels like christmas for me :D

Sounds great! Hope you'll be lucky with the mobo - often they come barebone - bummer when it doesn't come with the backplate.
Enjoy your new rig!
06-03-2005, 07:30 PM
Damien

Well got mine today. With everything in my rig I can only manage 570/570, which is kind of disappointing since you got 600 and even 620 on core. Can you PM me with your pci-e settings and whatnot? Thanks =)
06-03-2005, 08:20 PM
Damien

After further testing, it's only 555/555, man that memory gets hot. I'm going to send it to get voltmodded, buy a zalman cooler, and put on some ramsinks. Kind of disappointing though =|
06-03-2005, 10:29 PM
mike

ypgm
06-07-2005, 05:01 AM
Damien

1 Attachment(s)

Well, things are looking a little brighter...I just ran 3DMark05 @ 590/580 without seeing a single artifact, so that's good. Scores 6054...how's that for a 12 piper? Just want to compare with others :)
06-07-2005, 07:21 AM
Gautam

Sounds almost exactly in line with what I had at those speeds, looking good. :up:
06-07-2005, 08:42 AM
mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienKC

Well, things are looking a little brighter...I just ran 3DMark05 @ 590/580 without seeing a single artifact, so that's good. Scores 6054...how's that for a 12 piper? Just want to compare with others :)

Looking good - can you even push a bit further on the core if you not seeing any artifacts?

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