Flashing X800XL to X850XT !!!

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03-10-2005, 03:45 AM
AllBrain

Flashing X800XL to X850XT !!!

Quote:

Hello,

I just thought I would tell the world and his wife about the success of the brilliant X800XL by Powercolor that I bought from overclockers. I think the problem with overclocking was always bios written limitations and so flashed the X800 XL with the X850 XT (not PE) bios and not only has it worked, but also is rock stable and runs alot better than Powercolor ever intended.

I used ATIFLASH and got the bios from a saved file from a mate who actually has a bonified X800 XT.

Try it guys it really works, cracking cards those XL's £230 was a bargain.

Overclocked core is sitting pretty at 535 and memory at a slightly overclocked 1180.

***LINK***

Can this be true?
03-10-2005, 04:07 AM
mcnbns

Sounds a little far-fetched, TBH. He flashes his 90nm card to a 130nm BIOS (not sure if that's possible), and then miraculously he gets another 100MHz out of the core and RAM?
03-10-2005, 04:07 AM
alexio

Maybe in some X800XL's (the ones with the power connector) they use X850 XT cores that didn't pass th test but did have 16 working pipes.

In general it just seems impossible to me. If the X800XL is so much cheaper to build but still can run at such speed they'd have just cancelled the R480 before production and made dual core R430 cards and very cheap X800 XT's or something like that.
03-10-2005, 04:08 AM
zA.Gosu

Well, a bit more core voltage?
03-10-2005, 04:10 AM
mcnbns

They're built on completely different architecture! It's like changing the BIOS in your motherboard to make your Winchester an FX-55. It doesn't work like that.
03-10-2005, 04:10 AM
GazC

It's be nice to see one of the powercolor X800XL vivos with the heatsink off. Even so, with 2ns ram it is still going to be crippled for overclocking.

Only worth considering if you have actually bought one already, imo.
03-10-2005, 04:11 AM
Jamo

i agree with mcnbns, that it couldnt be done, getting the core from 400 to 535 is just taking it a little too far if you ask me, i cant see 0.1v vgpu giving those sort of miraculous results :stick:
03-10-2005, 04:15 AM
AllBrain

This does sound a little too far fetched. :confused: But just think if it did work. :slobber:
03-10-2005, 04:17 AM
XiN

My post in charlie's thread about it

I know that the limits of X800XL in oc are low voltage and production process @ 0.11 infact it's hard to reach 450/550 with dissy stock and default voltage. And these are hardware limits not software/bios limitations... true? :confused:

Anyway my X800XL card has power connector and 1.6 ns chips ... uhm ... maybe ... :D
03-10-2005, 04:33 AM
XiN

I've taken my 3D Club X800XL ViVo (with power connector and 1.6 ns chips) bios, ATI X850XT reference board bios and Sapphire X850XT ViVo bios to compare:

http://img202.exs.cx/img202/2038/atibios4gz.th.jpg

X800XL has R430, X850XT R480 but for the rest they are identical .... but I don't think flashing could be possible ...
03-10-2005, 05:02 AM
AllBrain

Is the top right one the Sapphire? Looks a lot like the Club 3D bios...
03-10-2005, 05:25 AM
XiN

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllBrain

Is the top right one the Sapphire? Looks a lot like the Club 3D bios...

Yes, top right one is Sapphire X850XT ;)

... mine and sapphire have the same memory chips and they are both VIVO ... I haven't find a 3D Club X850XT bios to compare ...

anyway the problem is gpu: they have different names (R430 / R480) and they would be quite different for architecture ...
03-10-2005, 05:34 AM
XiN

3D Club X800XL VIVO PCI-E

-- RaBiT v.1.7.2 build 390 --
> RaBiT driver v.1.0.5 is loaded
Readed from file: 58880 bytes, ROM len: 58880 bytes
-- Analyze ROM BIOS --
> HEADER offs: 0x1CC
> PCIR struct offs: 0x1F0
> HEADER2 offs: 0xB7F6, 23 items
> SCRIPTS offs: 0xC14D, 73 items
> CRC table offs: 0x215
> CLOCK table offs: 0xBD08
Core clock is 400.00 MHz
Memory clock is 490.00 MHz
Reference clock is 27.00 MHz
> Connectors Layout table offs: 0xBDBD
Port = 1, Conn0 type = DVI-I
Port = 0, Conn2 type = STV
Port = 2, Conn4 type = DVI-I
> TV table offs: 0xBD75
> Multimedia table: at 0xB830, Rev.1
> Hardware table: at 0xB824, Rev.2
hw_a: 0x350F, hw_b: 0x0201
> VESA BIOS Extension 3.00, Rev. 9.07 info:
Vendor: (C) 1988-2003, ATI Technologies Inc.
Product: R430, Rev. 01.00
OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS
Memory size: 256 Mb
> ASIC Config:
0x75 = 0xE4, 0x74 = 0x01
0x7B = 0x0A, 0x7A = 0x60 (0x00000A60)
-- ROM BIOS info --
Desc: R430 XL For 256MB
Info: 113-AA41101-100, AA41101.102 , 12/15/04,11:56:36
Radeon family: Radeon X800 series
-- Parsing hardware scripts: --
> INIT0 script at 0xC1DF
-- Found hardware registers values: --
> SCLK_CNTL(0x00000002)
> M_SPLL_REF_FB_DIV(0x003B4904)
> MC_CNTL(0x00000062)
> MCLK_CNTL(0x00001212)
> MC_TIMING_CNTL(0x6532C555) at 0xCC2E
> MC_SDRAM_MODE_REG(0x10330000) at 0xCC3B
> MC_REFRESH_CNTL(0x00008A00)
> MC_CHP_IO_OE_CNTL_CD(0x5FC05FC0) at 0xE2C1
> MC_READ_CNTL_CD(0x082A082A) at 0xE2AC
> MC_READ_CNTL_AB(0x082A082A) at 0xE2A5
> MC_CHP_IO_OE_CNTL_AB(0x5FC05FC0) at 0xE2BA
> CONFIG_MEMSIZE(0x10000000)
-- In BIOS memory timings --
tWL = 1.5
tCL = Reserved
tCMD = 0 clock
tSTB = equals tWrL
tRcdRD = 8
tRcdWR = 6
tRP = 8
tRAS = 14
tRRD = 6
tR2W = CL + 1
tWR = 4
tW2R = 5
tW2Rsb = Use tW2R Rule
tR2R = 3
tRBS = CL + 2
tERST = CL - 1
tQSREQ = CL - 2
tDQM = WL - 1
tDQS = WL - 1
tDQM_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
tDQS_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
-- Additional hardware info --
MCLK source select: MPLLCLK/2
SCLK source select: SPLLCLK/2
SDRAM specific: 2**12 rows, 512 columns
SDRAM dynamic CKE is Disabled
! Video settings is partially supported
-- User changes followed --

Sapphire X850XT VIVO PCI-E
PCi-E-- RaBiT v.1.7.2 build 390 --
! There are problems with the driver RaBiT.sys!
Readed from file: 58880 bytes, ROM len: 58880 bytes
-- Analyze ROM BIOS --
> HEADER offs: 0x1DC
> PCIR struct offs: 0x200
> HEADER2 offs: 0xB80A, 23 items
> SCRIPTS offs: 0xC180, 73 items
> CRC table offs: 0x225
> CLOCK table offs: 0xBD1C
Core clock is 520.00 MHz
Memory clock is 540.00 MHz
Reference clock is 27.00 MHz
> Connectors Layout table offs: 0xBDD1
Port = 1, Conn0 type = DVI-I
Port = 0, Conn2 type = STV
Port = 2, Conn4 type = DVI-I
> TV table offs: 0xBD89
> Multimedia table: at 0xB844, Rev.1
> Hardware table: at 0xB838, Rev.2
hw_a: 0x350F, hw_b: 0x0201
> VESA BIOS Extension 3.00, Rev. 9.07 info:
Vendor: (C) 1988-2003, ATI Technologies Inc.
Product: R480, Rev. 01.00
OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS
Memory size: 256 Mb
> ASIC Config:
0x75 = 0xE4, 0x74 = 0x02
0x7B = 0x04, 0x7A = 0x60 (0x00000460)
-- ROM BIOS info --
Desc: R480 DVI DVI VIVO XT BIOS BR10184
Info: 113-A47411-100, 13A47411.100, 11/16/04,13:28:57
Radeon family: Radeon X800 series
-- Parsing hardware scripts: --
> INIT0 script at 0xC212
-- Found hardware registers values: --
> SCLK_CNTL(0x00000002)
> M_SPLL_REF_FB_DIV(0x004D5004)
> MC_CNTL(0x00000062)
> MCLK_CNTL(0x00001212)
> MC_TIMING_CNTL(0x6532C555) at 0xCC61
> MC_SDRAM_MODE_REG(0x10330000) at 0xCC6E
> MC_REFRESH_CNTL(0x00008A00)
> MC_CHP_IO_OE_CNTL_CD(0x5FC05FC0) at 0xE2EB
> MC_READ_CNTL_CD(0x082A082A) at 0xE2D6
> MC_READ_CNTL_AB(0x082A082A) at 0xE2CF
> MC_CHP_IO_OE_CNTL_AB(0x5FC05FC0) at 0xE2E4
> CONFIG_MEMSIZE(0x10000000)
-- In BIOS memory timings --
tWL = 1.5
tCL = Reserved
tCMD = 0 clock
tSTB = equals tWrL
tRcdRD = 8
tRcdWR = 6
tRP = 8
tRAS = 14
tRRD = 6
tR2W = CL + 1
tWR = 4
tW2R = 5
tW2Rsb = Use tW2R Rule
tR2R = 3
tRBS = CL + 2
tERST = CL - 1
tQSREQ = CL - 2
tDQM = WL - 1
tDQS = WL - 1
tDQM_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
tDQS_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
-- Additional hardware info --
MCLK source select: MPLLCLK/2
SCLK source select: SPLLCLK/2
SDRAM specific: 2**12 rows, 512 columns
SDRAM dynamic CKE is Disabled
! Video settings is partially supported
-- User changes followed --

How can I see voltage of 3D CLub/ Sapphire?
03-10-2005, 06:02 AM
caater

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnbns

They're built on completely different architecture! It's like changing the BIOS in your motherboard to make your Winchester an FX-55. It doesn't work like that.

actually, it could be done..
think the ati pcb as a motherboard and gpu as a.. cpu.
they are using the same pcb for saving costs.
also 800xl and 850xt are basically the same, only diff is 850 being 0.13 lowk and 800xl 0.11.. also there is no need for different bios for fx-55 and winchester. mostly :)

so that leaves bios only ram-dependent.. and there's plenty of bioses floating around.

i think it's worth a try. but better have spare pci video for emergency ;)
03-10-2005, 10:09 AM
don_vercetti

i'm sure it is possible. Architecture size really doesn't effect the BIOS at all. The only real differences that the BIOS can affect are vgpu and vmem voltage (not sure if they are BIOS alterable on ati though) clock speeds and memory timing. I'm pretty sure in charlies mod he raised the Vgpu to 1.55 (i.e. stock x850xt) and got it up to about 530 or so. I think this mod is perfectly possible, and if i had one, i would try it.
03-10-2005, 10:54 AM
bobmanfoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by don_vercetti

i'm sure it is possible. Architecture size really doesn't effect the BIOS at all. The only real differences that the BIOS can affect are vgpu and vmem voltage (not sure if they are BIOS alterable on ati though) clock speeds and memory timing. I'm pretty sure in charlies mod he raised the Vgpu to 1.55 (i.e. stock x850xt) and got it up to about 530 or so. I think this mod is perfectly possible, and if i had one, i would try it.

um no, stock voltage of x850xtpe is ~1.4v, mine was 1.42v
03-10-2005, 12:05 PM
don_vercetti

i thought you weren't going to oc it??

anyway charlie got his to similar, and it's not bad considering the new core is it.

Sorry about the error in x850xt voltage btw. I'm more of an NV guy at the mo.
03-10-2005, 04:54 PM
Magnj

how are you guys doing volt mods, and are you gainging signifacant OCage as compared to stock voltages?
03-11-2005, 04:00 AM
mongoled

Quote:

Originally Posted by don_vercetti

i thought you weren't going to oc it??

anyway charlie got his to similar, and it's not bad considering the new core is it.

Sorry about the error in x850xt voltage btw. I'm more of an NV guy at the mo.

More like he wernt going to vmod it, ahhaha looks like that plan went out the window fast!!!!

Am waiting patiently to see where this thread goes, will be getting one of these as soon as it show sup at my fav store (better be soon stella!!!!).

mong
03-11-2005, 04:16 AM
sinsinking

What's the deal..
both are running 16 pixel pipe. 6 vertex ...
if the 11nm is under clock like 100 mhz.. the card will be sooooo cold. But it's warm but not cold. We can't overclock from 400-500 without watercool or phase change.
Looking for LN2/phase change on 550+ clock :P
03-14-2005, 11:40 PM
AllBrain

Here is another flashed X800XL that works just fine... :D
03-15-2005, 01:49 AM
Funny_S

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllBrain

Here is another flashed X800XL that works just fine... :D

looks like it's really possible according to this thread. My X800XL will ship to me on fryday. Will try it myself and post a review-guide of the flashing.
03-15-2005, 07:42 AM
Gokou

Still dont get it.... X800XT speed is 500+, havent seen anyones core being able to do that, soooooooo really need an X800XT bios with default XL clocks and go from there?

also would like a compare url from 3dmark.... not a picture, a link.
03-15-2005, 08:26 AM
_Eduard_

Just a quick question: does the x800xl by default have 16 pipes or 12?
03-15-2005, 08:33 AM
charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Eduard_

Just a quick question: does the x800xl by default have 16 pipes or 12?

"16"

clocks are the ONLY difference!
03-16-2005, 12:48 AM
Formann

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie

"16"

clocks are the ONLY difference!

Except for 0.11? :)
03-16-2005, 01:09 AM
wfarid

i doubt flashing will work, but we won't know for sure until people here at the forums try it... .:waiting for results:.
03-16-2005, 06:58 AM
XiN

pent of http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...6&page=1&pp=30

is the same person of http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33807164

Anyway I have taken Connect 3D X850XT (ViVo, 1.6 ns chips) to compare with my Club 3D X800XL bios (ViVo, 16 ns chips) ... nothing special, they are identical except for core (X850XT > 480, X800XL > 430). I could try but I'm afraid :D
03-16-2005, 07:15 AM
DarkManX_BG

A couple of people on another forum have reported successful flashes, and a couple have unsuccessful ones. However, the successful flashes didn't provide any gain in overclocks, just the card being identified as X850XT...
03-16-2005, 07:29 AM
XiN

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkManX_BG

A couple of people on another forum have reported successful flashes, and a couple have unsuccessful ones. However, the successful flashes didn't provide any gain in overclocks, just the card being identified as X850XT...

Unsuccessful = ? :D Explosion? :D
03-16-2005, 07:33 AM
DarkManX_BG

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiN

Unsuccessful = ? :D Explosion? :D

Unsuccessful = no POST or artifacts all over the place.
You can just flash back though (using a PCI video card or doing a blind flash)

That's the reason why I'll try it later - no damage done if it doesn't work :)
03-16-2005, 07:46 AM
XiN

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkManX_BG

Unsuccessful = no POST or artifacts all over the place.
You can just flash back though (using a PCI video card or doing a blind flash)

That's the reason why I'll try it later - no damage done if it doesn't work :)

Good, I have an old PCI card :D

We have the same card :toast: which bios do you test? I think I could use Connect 3D X850XT bios (VIVO, same mem chips) or Sapphire ... the best would be a Club 3D X850XT PCI-E bios but I don't find it ... mumble ...

Is it better uninstall Catalyst or not?
03-16-2005, 08:23 AM
DarkManX_BG

I suggest we use the Connect3D Bios (because of ViVo). I also tried to find a Club3D BIOS but didn't find any. Give me a link to the Connect3D BIOS and I'll try it tomorrow...

My memory has 2ns chips btw :(

As for Catalyst - I suggest reinstalling, at least I will...
03-16-2005, 08:34 AM
XiN

3D Connect bios: http://www.mvktech.net/index.php?opt...&filecatid=941

Sapphire should be VIVO too: http://www.techpowerup.com/bios/Sapp...g16_041116.bin

http://img52.exs.cx/img52/1038/sapphirebios0nk.th.jpg

2.0 ns? For Club 3D is unusual ... :confused:
03-16-2005, 08:42 AM
DarkManX_BG

Yeah, you can't immagine how disappointed I was when I looked at the memory. I bought Club3D for 2 reasons - 1.6ns memory and the extra power connector. The memory is 2ns and the power connector doesn't seem to help at all either (max core clock 440MHz).

Will I be fine using a BIOS for 1.6ns memory on 2.0ns memory?
03-16-2005, 09:18 AM
XiN

Exactly my max core ...

I don't know, maybe it's better finding a 2.0 ns bios

Anyway for 2 ns max clock should be: 1000/0.2 = 500 mhz so you could set memory clock to 500 (instead of 540 of the X850XT) ... so you are more safe
03-16-2005, 09:20 AM
DarkManX_BG

How can I edit the clocks before flashing? I've did it once when flashing a 9800Pro to XT, but I really don't remember at all :eek:
03-16-2005, 09:21 AM
charlie

try the Vcore mod guys... it helps!!
03-16-2005, 09:41 AM
DarkManX_BG

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie

try the Vcore mod guys... it helps!!

What was your max core OC before the mod?
03-16-2005, 10:21 AM
trakslacker

so exactly how many ppl do we have claiming success on this flash. In this case define success as a flash that allows for X800XL clocks into the X850Xt range.

The same guy on two different forums, and has anyone here had success with this? if so, it could makes things extremely interesting. :)
03-16-2005, 11:41 AM
charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkManX_BG

What was your max core OC before the mod?

about 440 or 450... with the Vmod and benching in 15C ambient I hit 492, aactually I can even run a little at 500, like one run of Car lo...

C
03-16-2005, 11:49 AM
Magnj

link to V mod?
03-17-2005, 04:30 AM
XiN

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkManX_BG

How can I edit the clocks before flashing? I've did it once when flashing a 9800Pro to XT, but I really don't remember at all :eek:

With RaBit 1.7 ... set clocks and save bios :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie

try the Vcore mod guys... it helps!!

I'll do it, but if this flashing works ... uhm ... :slobber: :D ... (even if I'm pessimistic about it :P)
03-17-2005, 04:32 AM
XiN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnj

link to V mod?

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/...g/voltmods/112

Here Charlie's thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=55070
03-17-2005, 04:35 AM
DarkManX_BG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnj

link to V mod?

This is the only one I found, it should do the job though (at least my X800XL has the same layout...)

EDIT: Gr, XiN was faster than me :( :p:
03-17-2005, 04:42 AM
Jamo

so whats the deal guys? it has to have 1.6ns RAM and the additional power connector?
03-17-2005, 10:20 PM
AllBrain

Ok so I decided to give this a go last night. I opened up the Sapphire X850XT PCI-E bios and set the core and memory speeds as close as possible to my X800XL clocks and then saved it onto a bootable floppy with flashrom. Thought it would be better this way and saver. Booted from the floppy and flashed to the modded bios. Restarted and went into windows reinstalled the drivers and it detected my card as a X850XT. Then I started a 3DMark2001SE run at my stock X800XL clocks and it finished without any problems. After that I moved to where I knew my X800XL's max clocks were and did another 3DMark2001SE run. No problem there either. Started to feel all happy and stuff, but as soon as I went over my max X800XL clocks, the system locked-up. So it seems that this either does not work or you need a VIVO card with an extra power-connecter. :(
03-17-2005, 11:14 PM
charlie

the PROBLEM here is you can't change an x800xt GPU into a x850xt GPU.... it sounds almost too stupid, but it's true. There's no EXTRA pipelines to "unlock" there's no disabled shaders... all the other famous BIOS swap mods take advantage of stiffer voltages for the extra MHZ. So even IF you could run an x800xl on the x850 BIOS, and I think you can... why would it run better than a default xl? Do a Vgpu mod and there's NOTHING a BIOS mod could do in this CASE. I just don't buy it....
:(

The ONLY way this would work is if Powercolor or whoever ran out of xl GPU's and installed BIOS crippled x850 cores on the card.... THEN!! a BIOS flash could bring her around! But I haven't heard a WORD of this, though...

C
03-17-2005, 11:24 PM
AllBrain

I agree with you 100% Charlie. There were rumors that the X800XL bios had some kind of lock and made it very difficult to overclock over a certain point. I think I have now proved it not to be true and that the X800XL just needs more volts to overclock better. Next step for me is vmodding. :)
03-18-2005, 02:23 AM
sinsinking

Yeah
i don't buy it also. No advantage of flashing bios.
Any site for buying VR?
I guess local radioshack doesn't has it...
03-20-2005, 08:58 PM
bobmanfoo

radioshack has 10k pots which is good for vgpu, you could use 10k for vdd and vddq but at max resistance voltage is at 2.25v instead of stock 2.1v,
03-23-2005, 08:49 AM
mongoled

Hi peeps,

ive managed to flash the X850XT bios onto my X800XL after modifying the clocks with rabit1.7, but i gained absolutely nothing. I would like the bios greg101 (the guy over at rage3d) used before I denounce that flashing most definatley doesnt help.

I used both the ATI X850XT reference bios + the sapphire X850XT bios but both showed exactly the same behaivior, no overclock improvement on the core.

hope other peeps also try to flash the bios and report back their findings, it was pretty straight forward.

mong
03-23-2005, 09:06 AM
WiCKeD

:rolleyes: Bogus, you all know it.
03-23-2005, 01:42 PM
perkam

Wow so many useless threads still alive :rolleyes:

O LOOKY !!! I can flash my 8500 to an R520 !!! :D YAY :lol:

Perkam