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well this one is going to be smaller.
will test it with 1/2Hp for now. i know how to use co2 now after playing with cascades.
im going to stick with the old hx
just insulate it properly.
i plan to be making a 40mm evap and maybe a 30mm evap for testing cpu the gpu cooler. i cant wait.
one hx is done i will only have to insulate dd evap suction line and maybe about 30cm of suction line. i like this design, very little losses.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=26146&stc=1
cant wait to see it. i'm just waiting for some co2 to get here so i can charge my autocascade. it's also nice and small.
Nice heat exchanger. Is this going to be the same principle co2 chamber that Jan is also using? This will make really cool gpu cooler.
Foot cant wait to see ya autocascade. Co2 will bring ya some fun.
windstorm Im not sure exactly how jans hx works, but assume it similar to other hxs being designed for autocascade. I have 3 sets of pipes in there.
Co2 condenser pipe, shell r290 boils in and I also pass the suction line through there.
It’s the one out of the first autocascade hx,
I just attacked it with a pipe bender to make it smaller, will insulate it the same way as I did the cascade.
good work man, looks great!
i'll post some pics when i get hold of a camera, just for you Kayl
hey kayl, that looks pretty small for a 1/2hp compressor, what make is it? might just be the perspective though.
I'm working on finding a used rotary compressor so I can fix my autocascade.. 1/4hp doesnt cut it with co2.
thanxs scout55, foot l like pics i cant wait.
gkiing it is small very quiet. would make a perfect cooler, if i can get it to run autocascade.
i wish i had 2 of these compressors, could have 2 side by side. :toast:
Brand: L'unite Hermetique
Modell:CAE2420Z
Cyl Volume: 12.50cm3
Capacity at -35: 257w
Capacity at -30: 349w
Low temp R404A @ -10c suction it will move 2000 Btu.
Weight: 13kg
im starting to like pipe benders
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=26240&stc=1
looking good kayl, wat other gas will be used, bbq propane or hc22/502?
kayl, should you shot a few good photos of compressor? My looks identically as your,
but, according to technical document, it has ~12ccm motor's displacement and 1/3HP..
It make me unsure, why 1/3HP, not 1/2HP? Model name - CAE2410A, as I remember correctly
Whatever, I love this compressor, it has massive shapes, electricity device
looks nice and loudness level is low :D
Kayl...very compact system. Nice receiver you made. What size cap are you using to cool the hx.?… Man you rock you just started this two days ago and it looks complete
What is an auto-cascade?
It's a phase change unit, where is one compressor, phase separator and two gases - one gas cools second gas
First gas evaporates between -30*C and -40*C, second stage evaporates between -50*C and -80*C
oooooooooh i want one :D
piccies :)
So a single compressor pumps a gas mixture that is seperated somehow, then these individual gasses are used like in a typical cascade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
Does the HX act as a subcooler in a traditional system, except that a compressed 1st stage gas will cool the condensed 2nd stage?
I'm still kind of learning about basic stages here, so please correct (and forgive) my ignorance. From my knowledge so far, in a subcooler, the suction line gas will cool down the liquid line to give the system a little bit of a boost? Or are you using a 1st stage liquid that is separated to cool a 2nd stage liquid prior heading to the evaporator?
I believe its the 1st stage condensed refrigerant that cools and causes the 2nd stage refrigerant to condense (usually CO2) then the CO2 moves on to the evap on cpu.
G H Z, bingo
illmatik, 1st stage gas is condensed. 2nd stage gas is desuperheated (it's cooled by
condenser, but it doesn't become a gas, he's still in gas phase). Condensed gas
evaporates and cools 2nd stage gas.
It isn't subcooling
Cra$h 0veride, you're right
How is the gas seperated?
Sorry bout the jack kayl, just trying to understand exactly what your doing here so I can honestly say Nice job! ;)
for testing I always use bbq r290, normal single stages I always use hc22/502 cause they only take about 4sec of charge, the autocascade and cascade would take a lot of hc22/502 and I only got a few kg’s left.Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
If I build a autocascade im gonna keep I will use hc22/502.
But im always changing things so that’s a while off, unless this is a good gpu cooler
im really not exactly sure, a while back I posted this, and ppl said it was 1/2Hp, might be a 1/3HpQuote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
Have you a link to that spec sheet talking about.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...04a+compressor
thanxs once I start I have a hobbit of brazing until finishedQuote:
Originally Posted by WindStorm
no receiver used in this one, capillary line is 0.028” about 1.8m 1st stage and about 2.3m 0.031” secondstage.
That’s cool, after the gas leaves the compressor passes to the condenser, then it enters a map gas cylinder about 1/3 way up bottle. At room temp and this pressure r290 will condense into a liquid and collect at the bottom of the cylinder. It then feeds via capillary line to hx (1st stage) -30c.Quote:
Originally Posted by G H Z
Back to the map gas cylinder now, at room temp and this pressure c02 is a gas and exits the top of the map gas cylinder as a gas. It is then passed through the hx where its cooled and pressure is reduced and it is able to condensed into a liquid and the fed by capillary line to 2nd stage dd evap to freeze -70c –80c hopefully.
So when you are tuning/experimenting, are you guys reclaiming and refilling the system each time you need to say, do a cap tube adjustment? I would assume flares need to be brazed/soldered each run due to the psi in the system, no?
flares don't need to be brazed or souldered if you do them right. In the us we are required to recover any refridgerent.
Wow that's good to know (flaring. knew about recovery laws). So it should make cap tube adjustments much easier to do when tuning these pre made units like vapos. I'm trying to go thru this Tomczyk Refrigeration & AC coursebook and lab guide in between work and mba work in the evening, hoping it shows how to do quality tooling and stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by illmatik
yeah when making capillary line changes etc ya have to vacuum again and regas, takes alot of time.
flairs would be about the same amount of effort really. still have to vacuum and apply the appropriate sealant to the thread so it doesn’t leak and tork it correctly.
flairs main use for things like txv etc that dont like to be heated (ie brazed), all other joins i prefer to be brazed.
some ppl have their dd blocks on flairs so can swap, i like them brazed, just another thing to leak if done incorrectly.
propane and co2 releasing into the air isn’t illegal, but other refrigerants should be reclaimed. another advantage to using r290 and co2. :toast:
no need to reclaim.
Yeah, not needing to reclaim gas is a big advantage :DQuote:
Originally Posted by kayl
You dont need to put sealant on flares if you use a copper gasket, it gets compressed and makes a gas tight connection. Use two wrenches to tighten the flare nut too.
The oil is your seal between the copper and brass.
However I've found Nylog to be the best sealant by far down to around -40C. Its basicly liquid nylon which doesn't ever harden up.
i have this blue stuff that works realy well, its only rated down to -100f though. what do you think happens then?
well it wasn't tested there but I can tell you that if you have dissimmilar materials like cbrass and aluminum the blue stuff leaks but on copper/brass at -120C it holds.
That blue gunk is acidic, hardens up, and gets used to much. I never liked it.
Nylog just turns into a small ball of snot in the compressor oil sump and doesn't eat the winding. I've never tested Nylog below -40C... so dont know. I'll give them a call and find out.
Better off just brazing everything at these tempatures if you ask me.
i was gonna get some of that lock stuff 9blue stuff) so i can get around to using my txv.
ya cant braze them right, i like to braze everthing too redwolf.
Sure you can... Just use 56% silver and braze up around the flare nut. I've done it
Just remember to put a wet rag around the Valve before brazing for a heatsink.
That Thermopaste works very well too.
BTW Nylog is only rated down to -40C
I dont understand.. the copper makes the seal between the two ends, it is compressed and fills the gaps.. doesnt it? I use flare washers and I've never needed thread sealant, and none of the flares I've made leak when properly tightened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkiing
I had someone come around and install an air conditioner.
Hes comment was that he goes through about 20kg of r22 a week going around redoing flares that haven’t been done properly.
Especially the electricians that get there installers license and do it for a side job over summer. Except when the units loose their gas they cant fill them and then have to get the fridgie in.
Redwolf I keep that in mind I would feel better having brazed join and not get
Nylog stuff save a few $$
The deal is flares have a bad happit of expanding after some time. Vibration, Heat, Cool.
If your using Oil (like your supposed to) on the pipe while flaring then there is oil on the seal. The oil does two things... helps to even out the metal and seal micro cavities in the metal. Just remember to use small turns and back off after each one. But never go all the way down to a 45degree unless your using a 38degree tool.
update i lost the 1/2Hp compressor for the autocascade so i have had to think of something different compound autocascade.
i switched in 3x 1/5Hp compressors. recently i found some old r12 compressors with the pipes snapped. i removed the suction line and drilled a bigger hole in the compressor and replaced it with 3/8 pipe. so after autocascade i have 2 1/5Hp in parrall , condenser wrong way up
and then a series 1/5Hp compressor, i couldnt care if compressors die :toast:
so far mostly insulated im getting -68c unloaded and -40c hx. no pics for a while as the camera is broken.
No sealant is required on a flare fitting,it is a taper to taper seal, A double flare works best. walt
You usually need to use a copper flare gasket to make the seal. Using loctite on the threads is also extra insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
lol poor walt. Dont mind gkiing... he doesn't know what a double flare is.
Blu thread lock sealant should work in your case,why dont your put and test if your have leaks with just bbq propane with the system on?
you guys don't get it,the threads are there only to provide the holding torque,they have absolutly NOTHING to do with the seal. Walt
The lock sealent is only good to compensate for a bad flare, better to get the flare right in the first place.
Regards
John.
a double flare is just like a regular flare but the tubing is bent back on itself.. well thats one typeQuote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf
or you could have a "v" shaped ring on the end producing two seals effectively
care to enlighten me on this redwolf? I'd like to know for sure.. and I should... I'm working with an ac/r company.
Sweet dude. Good luck, and I cant wait to see some more pics :)
are you talking about compression rings?Quote:
Originally Posted by gkiing
gkiing.. read what you wrote.
no, its like an overlapped flare.. read the link below.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
http://www.phi-tulip.com/eng/dblflaring.htm
standard double flare
the autocascade is back to life.
just need to change metering devices to get better temps.
insulating it didnt make that much of a change, i was surprised.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=27998&stc=1
I been busy tunning changing capillary length.
I managed -77.1c with new evap and -34c 1st stage.
i still need to insulate evap so when i get camera back should have better temps
Still using r290/744.
it would be nice to test it with 1150 soon :woot:
How wide is ID of capillary tube and what is length?
And congrats, -77.1*C is very low :D HX's temp is also low...
thanxs tonic, ID of caplines is 0.028" both stages.
hx temp is r290 suction line leaving the hx and suction line is flodded all way back to compressor.
it sits mainly at -75c and -35c 1st stage and about 1HG low side pressure
as for capline length im gonna keep that quiet for a while as competition is almost to end date and i want to come first hehee
i am gonna die here little more tuning and touch up of insulation.
just when i really need my camera
been holding -83.5c for 10mins now noload. :banana:
wow
:toast:
im very impressed sir.
Damn, I didn't it :stick: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by kayl
But it's sure that you're a capillary tube tuning master :)
That's what I've been thinking abouut, how will it handle a load? My autocascade stopped condensing the high pressure gas and temps plummeted.Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
hey Kayl,
I noticed that you brazed to an old mapp gas can. How did you not blow yourself up? can someone point me to a procedure for doing this safely?
thanks,
Kalen
Just make sure that it is empty... What I am doing is just opening it full, and it doesnt do anything, but its possible that this way is not safe:)...
There will be residue,evan aIfter it emptys if you close the valve the pressure will build,the metal can even asorb resadue.Quote:
Originally Posted by skate2snow
vacuum it then fill with a inert gas.
filling with water can also be dangerious,heating water can release the oxygen in it,which cound mix with the propane.
I would just find a regular top, then off the bottle, braze or thread on the right fitting.
But then you cant put stuff in it like steel wool ;)
Is it safe to drill into it if its empty, and then put some dry ice in there before brazing?
--Kalen
either purge it through a hole along the bottom and have the purging gas come out the top or vacuum it to 29". The dry ice would only condense the remainder of the gas in the bottom..Quote:
Originally Posted by kalen
well the autocascade competition is coming to a end soon (i think the 20th may )
this is about the only pic i got of the auto cascade. i couldnt get it any colder these days just got luck that night getting -83.5, but had no camera.
-76c and the other temp is suction line leaving the r290 suction line, not not sure of the hx temp.
I think I need better gas than c02 though to run it at any decent load and not have to worry about ice pebbles limiting temps. evaps goes thud, thus thud
If someone can send me some blots that fit an ATI gpu I will load it on the 9600XT :toast:
I cant find bolted thread rod anywhere small enough to pass through the graphics card, the smallest I can get is 3mm.
Does anyone know where I can get some?
but by the time i get he bolts i might even have ethylene ready for it.
its taking a while just gonna get the thread and niple to convert cga580 to cga350 fitting on a nitrogen regulator and come june my birthday i will have the $$ for ethylene.
dont you just hate waiting :mad:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30313&stc=1
is it going to end that quick already? I really need to fill up my autocascade (and post some pics)
what are the pressures? and -16 for the r290 is a bit high don't you think?
I read a little about a compatition before I joined but must have missed the thread that it started.I thought it was just a idea!!! when does it end?
ends 22/05/2005
really impressive for only one compressor but if its sucking on load it has no use.
will/can you check load temps these days with kinda 100W/150W/200W load?
my mach I repaired by cold-ice shows only -45°C on display, but I believe in his measurements with ~-55°C because the whole evap is freezing ^^
and i thought this would be amazing for a single comp :/
(but because he made it for load temps i think i will have very nice temps on my 3500+ newcastle hrhr...really nice guy and all my respect goes to him)
Great temps. What blend?? OK we need to see verifying temps of 0c on the meter.. with ICE.
Berkut PM me with winners name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilly1
thanxs chilly1.
bbq r290 and co2.
the local ref from company that make the bbqr290 said its about 95% pure r290 and the 5% is made up of mostly butane and ethane.
not sure on ratios.
Wdrzal this is the link to the competition, and chilly heres me ice bath and a few other members ice baths.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...8&page=5&pp=25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
for the compertition since there is no way of loading evaps everyone the same.
It goes on lowest temp so there is no excuse whos lowest.
Loaded, im working on this, ya need better gases though for load personally.
co2 has ice issues after -55c, but later i will be doing loaded autocascades.
any thing better than -50c at load has to be better than a single stage.
yeah it looks bad, little low on charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
If I run about 5psig lowside r290 leaving is about -35c nice n flooded. And evap cold.
But I bleed refrigerant back out to get 0psig. For best temps so im really really close to physical possible here of -78.8c
With -83.5 I think I was just in vacuum. But im having troble doing it again running vacuum is difficult very little gas in system.
I charge according to each suction line and ice goes all way back to compressor.
wow kayl ya still going :cool: :)
yeah sort of. except i dont have any more co2 these days so just top up with r290. the hx is strong though flooded and -37c leaving hx (pressure charts -39c r290)Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
with load benching 3dmark2001se about an hour holding -55.1c nothing impressing really. im not even gonna bother changing the capillary line.
when i first attached i had to add alot of r290 to flood hx.
i need a cascade :mad:
one thing i know now what ppl say about insulation and gpu cards. these things sweet, so fans galour.
i hope you like the evap its a little 30mm one
pressures 2psig / 200psig temps
i finally found a place that was able to give me 1m length of 3mm threaded rod
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30817&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30818&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30819&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30820&stc=1
this is the insulaton job and the bolts.
cut threaded rods with hack saw and just took edge off with file.
now got enough rod for seval coolers. can go for tall evaps in future with longer rods and more insulation, something that has limited me in the past.
one thing i didnt think of, should of done a right angle bend in evap suction line after the evap so can fit some pci cards, need to dial up internet.
only time to tune ya phase change coolers :toast:
other wise boring waiting for temps. :stick:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30830&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30831&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=30832&stc=1
kayl,
Where are the frost pics?
sorry man no pics ice
any more pics and xs is gonna rund out of web space :stick:
only got ice when noload trials, I though damit lots of air it should be safe (I hope)
too scared to run long periods.
last time i did phase change i lost a cpu and a mobo, different systems different occasions and my bad physically damaging stuff.
so not gonna push it for now just once off bench satisfy my curiosity.
I need conformal spray or redo insulation to run again. So wont matter if condensation forms.
Buying new hardware gets pretty expensive after awhile.
No worries about the frost pics :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:
hahaha ya don't stop at it do ya kayl...
well tried the autocacade again and i have come to the conclusion that its got a very very slow leak. now after about 1 months it seems to have lost most of the co2. im away for work for a few weeks but when i get back will have some cash for some gas and regulator parts i hope and get a start to vmodding this card, there is also a chance that my motherboard will be back from DFI warranty repair so I can get some benches happening worth posting.
well i did a little benching just gpu for now, got a fair bit of a gain from air to phase change.
9600Xt went from max overclock of 583Mhz core to 621Mhz, not bad for an old 9600xt. i cant wait to do the vcore vmod should get a little more out yet.
i also noticed that the temp sensor had come loose so i reattached it and added some better insulation.
it seems that i only have to worry about condensation and sweating of the card when the system is off and on pull. but once the card gets volts does seem to be an issue. i checked most places around the card (while running) the only place that might be a worry is where the card goes into the slot, the actual slot is quiet cold and condensation may form here.
Gonna have to look at insulation this area as well.
sucks about teh autocascade kayl... but still, Nice damn clocks!!! :woot:
hope ya get it recharged soon
EDIT:ps how cold does your memory get with the GPU so close to them @ -40C?
not sure have to touch next time. i feel like a bit of a seco.
im sure with volts though i will be adding heatsinks just in case. want high volts these chips cant handle much volts though so ganna try 10k post each first.
vemem im not 100% sure on cant find anywhere (exact pic) but i found one for the core though at leats. should hit 600MHZ on ram with heatsinks now just have to glue em on with AS5. and vmod and have a look at the orb for best clock speeds.
guess what i pipcked up today.
its my birthday, well at least a month ago when i ordered the bottle, its finally here.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=34129
We have to give Kayl a A+ for safety, the bottle is chained and a fire extingusher is within reach.
Good luck kayl,youll be using r1150 on your autocascade too?
What will be the '1st' stage gas?r290?
---EDIT---
Forgot to say Kayl,happy Birthday all of good to you man,keep up the good work
:YIPPIE: :bday: :bday2: :party: :cheer: :YIPPIE:
Great work man... its real nice to see good temps. What is the load handle?
I knew you were going to say that :lol: but indeed high pressure bottles should be secured very well. especially when the pressure regulator is mounted.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Me too :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
But this fire extingusher isn't so easy accessable, a little hidden. I may be wrong, I don't know how does look bottle's area :)
Happy Birthday Kayl :bday:
Nice bottle ...guys I have my birthday in one month...I want bottle like kayl's too :p: :woot: ... :D .
Peter
If every xtreme member takes out 5cent or so :P we can make it :P
is beautifulst,how much you has cost and how many to bar max?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
Thanxs wdrzal, after a recent post from you in someone else’s thread I though about when I had the c02 bottle and how dangerous things could have been, though I would do it right this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
Had to take the chain and lock off motor bike to chain up my new baby.
Tonic ya correct there is better places I should keep fire extinguisher. Just this is where I have had it since I got it ages back.
yep, didn’t have a working cascades, so last night I charged the autocascade for some fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuGaCoSa
First I static charged 60psi 1150 switched it on and filled the remainder with r290.
There wasn’t enough 1150 so I added some more.
About an hour of tunning I got 0psig/240psig with -70c evap and -40c hx.
I have a feeling though there isn’t enough 1150 in there and the autocascade requires a fair amount of r290 to keep the hx down to temp.
I felt a little embarrassed when family members asked what you got for your birthday.
“a bottle of gas”
QUOTE=Waus-mod]Great work man... its real nice to see good temps. What is the load handle?[/QUOTE]
My 9600xt died so I currently dont have a graphics card to cool, so no load temps sorry with 1150.
When funds are up again I will look into getting a 9800 pro or something to cool and load it.
I could remove gpu evap and fit a cpu evap in time, but will most properly just get back into designing my next cascade instead and not load it. Can do that at a later date.
not sure, it’s a h2 regulator, Ill check it tonight and give some more details.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast
Not cheap put it that way. I have been saving for a while now.
Hey kyle , get yourself some of those generic nylon tie down straps,you can get them 4 for 5.00 here, they work great to strap a tank with. That way you can lock up your bike so someone dosn't steal it.
All jokes aside brass if very brittle and a pulled over tank can easily snap off a regulator. Glad to see someones setting a good example.
Happy Bday Kayl..... I cant wait to see what you are gonna do with that stuff :D . Looks like your gonna put out some nice machines...
thanxs guys.
jsu here a start.
gpu no load one temp probe side and one bottom.
autocascade is at its best hx temp when its tuned to -70/-41c hx out.
fast heres a close up of the gauges and pressure each side.