:D Here we go:
http://img228.exs.cx/img228/8991/nbkuehler58rq.jpg
and here:
http://img228.exs.cx/img228/4038/nbkuehler44gf.jpg
Here is a link to the seller's (Sixtron) forum:
CLICK !!!
:toast:
Printable View
:D Here we go:
http://img228.exs.cx/img228/8991/nbkuehler58rq.jpg
and here:
http://img228.exs.cx/img228/4038/nbkuehler44gf.jpg
Here is a link to the seller's (Sixtron) forum:
CLICK !!!
:toast:
intresting man
but ill prolly wait till 1a-cooling takes 1 in their product range
so i can buy it in 1 time as a nice kit...
dont wanne pay 15 euro twice just for transporting that damn watercooling ;)
:D Yep, but I'm sick of waiting for somethin' so I ordered one. BTW quality looks much better than the 1A one - this here is pure copper. :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastakilla
Wow, there's no water flow in that thing:D
OPP
:D Sure there is - speed channels cause pressure for water flow..... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
You can have it:DQuote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
OPP
:D When I get board & waterblock we'll see....., BTW I think better than the crappy stock cooler and ANY air cooling and the heat to kill is not as much as on a CPU............ :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
Well I'm sure it will be,:) but I think a better interior design would be nice. Maybe larger chanels.Quote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
OPP
in usa this is no good. We use high performance setups with high flowing 1/2" and 3/8" tube...this will kill whole loop flow for no reason..
Who says you need a chipset block anyways? Need I remind you the best 754 board, the DFI and passive cool? OPP puts passive too on his NF4..
What a buzz killer
Quote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
i think you're wrong on both countsQuote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
a) one half is plain copper (bottom) the other plain brass - ok brass is partially copper, but ... :D - you can see it in the 1st pic
b) the speedchannels are kinda ineffective since the space above them is one big hollow area, so why would the water travel faster inside the channels? think cavitation (or whatever it is called), turbulences... mixing with the supposedly slower flowing water in the upper hollow area...
:toast: :D
I don't even see a hollow area on the top brass part. To me it looks like it sits flush on top of the copper leaveing nothing but the little channels for the water to go through.Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
I could be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.
OPP
:D @ZEBO, SKY & OPP:
Ya're right - but I spent a lot of money for radiator, pump, fans, a.s.o. and so I decided to stay on water for chipset - sure there is no urgent need for, but it has a lot more charme.......
The whole problem is at least to get ANY waterblock for DFI - so ~ $37 is not such a big ammount and in my opinion it's worth the price.
:toast:
THe O ring wont compress to nothing and that gap will make a small space.Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
The flow will still be low though.
But there is an easy way to get past this flow problem, just build a bypass loop on your system. The chipset will only need low flow anyway so you wont loose hardly any flow/performance on the rest of your system.
Having said that I dont think that watercooling the chipset will be worth much on NF4 boards, unless your running stupidly high HTT.
Well yes, in the US it's high flow, in europe it's high tech. Btw., mot european blocks improve in performance with higher flow too. It's just that they don't need that much flow to perform good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebo
The reason behind all this was to solve the problem that water cooling needed to be silent, so you can't use a too strong water pump.
Regarding that, one question: From what point on is it considered to be "high flow"? One gallon, maybe two gallons a minute? Or more? For an example, I get 1.3 gallons a minute with my system roughly, using one pump (not much bigger than a 60mm fan) and Tygon tubing with 8mm inner diamter.
:D Thats the point, got CPU on phase, RAM & MOSFETS on air and ONLY chipset on water so there is no flow problem for me at all......... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Holst
Quote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
sorry but were ist the point in cooling the nb with water and the graphiccard (s) not :stick: . that sounds really strange for me. (*ok, i know you are not a gamer, but in that case you could have gone for a better aircoolerr (*should also fit*)*).
That's true. Also you don't need a special water block if there are no two cards, plenty of space with only one installed.
All NB blocks are pretty useless.... not only on they all flow killers, but no NB ever generates enough heat that a decent NB cooler couldn't handle.
If you want to do it for the "charm" of it, by all means, more power to you.
And personally I disagree that in the US we use high flow as opposed to Europe who uses high tech. I have the highest tech CPU block available (Storm/G4), and it just so happens to perform the best at 1.8GPM or so. Euro blocks (mainly german) are more bling than anything. They are however created to get decent performance at very low flow rates, but do (like american blocks) benefit from higher flow rates as well.
No one but the germans and a few isolated others really understands the weak pump/small tubing/small rad/silent fans/"low flow" approach to water cooling. But then again this is xtreme systems, and "decent cooling" is generally not what people go for. But the germans seem to consider "decent" to be "optimal".
Well, if you want "real" cooling, you'll need a cascade or other sub-zero cooling. Watercooling only gives you slightly higher clocks than a good aircooling, so the improvement must be something else: noise reduction. There ain't anything "extreme" in watercooling, at least unless you use a comp to chill the water or something.
And tell me, how come that the german blocks are at least as good as the US blocks, but can keep a "decent" performance even at low flow rates, a thing that the US blocks can't?
There is a big difference between the best air cooling and the best water cooling, namely 10-15C. If that isn't enough reason to use watercooling over air, then yes, noise would be the only other concern. And with all the options in watercooling, there are definitely more extreme setups than others. If you want proof, read here.
Well, are you talking the average US block, ala DD TDX/RBX or Swiftech MCW6000/6002? Where do the Little River blocks fit into the equation? They are certainly optimized for great performance at all levels of flow, better than any german block I might add. The Swiftech MCW6000/6002 performs very minutely worse than the best german blocks at very low flow rates.
There are examples of US blocks that work well at low flow rates, but a lot of them are optimized for high flow rates.
The NexXxos XP block is probably the best german block out there at low and high flow rates, but is still only marginally better than the Swiftech MCW6002 at low rates and definitely not as good as the Storm blocks at high flow rates.
I'm not going as far as saying that german blocks are crap, but the german W/C manifesto has long been weak pump/small tubes/small rad/silent fans/"low flow". This results in only "decent" performance even with the best "low flow" german blocks, ala NexXxos XP, etc.
You guys do it like you like it, but don't think it's the end all be all. I've just seen 100 german watercoolers happy with the barely-better-than-good-water-cooling performance just because it's quiet. If that's what floats your boat, then by all means, but don't think there aren't better options when it comes to performance.
If you look here
http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php
you will see that the best blocks
Storm (Australian)
Alphacool (German)
Swiftech (USA)
are pretty much identical at 0.5 GPM, but the Alphacool and Storm improve significantly with flowrate.....
Just my 2 cents/ not many Euros at all's worth ;)
But seriously, I have a design for an NF4 block which would be pretty non-restrictive - equivalent to the flowrate through a few inches of 10mm bore tube. Thing is it needs the distance between the NF4 chip and the bottom of the VGA card to be at least 15 mm. Has anybody measured this? My Ultra-D STILL hasn't arrived, although the 850XT has :(
:D O.K. - to clear it definetly:
I'm not going for SLI - my DFI ULTRA will get a single REALTEK 6600 GT Extreme overclocked to 590 / 1340 aircooled (stock cooler is not noisy and has enough power).
My CPU is on phase and I put a 120mm fan right in front of the RAM slots, so on DFI it will also cool down MOSFETS because they're near these slots on DFI NF4 - so no extra fan like I use now on NEO2 is needed.
I do surely know that I can overvclock this board to it's max even with the stock air cooler or a better one - but before I turned to single phase I bought an expensive WC system ( 240mm radiator, 2 x 120mm PAPST fans, Eheim pump, etc.) which I use for chipset cooling since I'm on single phase.
So My only intention is to give the WC system a sense - I don't want to sell it so I decided to use it also in future for chipset cooling.
That's the only reason I bought a new DFI fitting waterblock for it and maybe it keeps the chipset a little cooler than the air cooler.
That's all. :toast:
I am using my Zalman Passive sink cut in various places to accomodate components on GPU with 50mm delta I had from Thermal right heatsink. The surface area, no matter how I look at, is much much bigger than anything else on market that fits on nVidia chipset even after severly cutting down many pins, etc. It is dirt cheap method too. Give it a shot if you can.
doesnt the Z-chipset block of DD fit :confused:
yup flow killer...:(Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
there must be a better air solution.....
I think hardcoreclocker already told his intentions, why do you bother with flow killer, it's his own problem, not ours he know it's a flowkiller he already assumed it why people are always talking about the same thing, leave it aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by thelostrican
WRONG! Swiftech's 600x series water blocks. They need very little flow to perform. 100% American baby!Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_53
@torin: Did you read the Procooling link uranium provides? I read the comparison about the Nexxxos XP and the Storm block, the charts clearly show that the Nexxxos isn't far behind the Storm at all, and only at higher flow rates. And, do you really think that your setup can give you anything more than maybe a 5° inprovement in temps with all that noise? I don't think so. The blocks have been tested here, and they've been tested in the US. Both tests show the same results ;)
Yes, I am very aware of procooling's reviews and what they think. I visit their forum often. One big thing they don't really account for is how the blocks perform in a loop with other blocks. And what impact the restrictiveness of the CPU block has on the performance of a GPU block. Their tests are good, but they don't account for everything.
I don't know what you consider to be "all that noise". My pump is very quiet, and I run my fans at 7V.... what's important is that I don't have a restrictive block, I don't use restrictive 6mm tubing, I don't use a weak eheim 10xx pump (but it is still quiet and gives great head/flow) and I don't use an itty bitty rad, I've got a nice thick heatercore. Granted it isn't silent (as in you can't hear it), but it is very quiet. Good thick fans can still generate significant pressure and airflow at lower volts. The loudest thing in my system is definitely the hard drives, and there is little I can or will do about that. I really can't say what a "german" setup would give on my system, but I guarantee it won't be much quieter, and even if it was, it wouldn't matter, as the hard drives would still be the loudest thing.
Point here being that you don't need little restrictive blocks and weak fans and small rads and tiny tubing to give you a quiet system. You can still optimize for performance at a minimal level of noise. I can pretty much guarantee you though my temps will be better than a german setup.
i dont think u'll be able to persuade us, sry, i dont know ur watercooling stuff down in the us, but only thing i know is that our german equipment suits our needs perfectly, we have a large variety of coolers, pumps, radiator etc. in any flavor, speed, quality and size. if u are willing to pay good money for quality u can setup a cooling system nearly noiseless but nonetheless extremely well performing, so whats yout point? as is said before i dont know the us equipment and frankly i dont think i'd have to, u guys didnt reinvent the wheel either, water cooling remains a limited science where u'll never reach the absolute zero(0K), so i dont think bashing on each other is neccessary at all.
i suppose both setups are worth risking, so neither of them will be the end of the world as we know it :toast:
S'cuse me but the topic of this thread is Here we have a fitting waterblock for DFI NF4 !!!, can we get back on topic please, and take the USA vs Germany and Germany vs USA bashing to the appropriate thread, which you will find......probably on another site!
Spare us the futilities of this bashing please!
I'm sorry I didn't notice this was your thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
I am sorry but there is nothing wrong with going back to topic when it is going so far off topic with NOTHING productive being implied here. Blindbat seems to be geniune poster from few helps I got... :P
There is no MY thread nor YOUR thred imho once you put it out in public like this.
Just to stray off a little further I know where both people are coming from. There are people who want silent system, there are people who overclock and silent, there are people who want overclock and bearable, and there are the few who wouldn't mind going unbearable. Most Europeans are more into silent technology than US market is. (Don't start arguing with me on this, just sheer number of product available says something as well as number of non american member on silentpcreview which is hosted in US) We just take different approach on getting to similar point. From what I am used to seeing, advantage of German method is easier to manage tubing (thinner tube), American way is advantage of maximizing gain and taking nothing for granted (you do have to learn your components though). Both certainly do work well and can be quietened down within reason.
Back to topic. I really do suggest trying modifying zalman passive heatsink to fit in there with 50 or 40mm fan running slow.
Mine shows heatsink temp at base of 32c max temperature (25c ambient) which probably is what you will get with waterblock considering the flow that goes through it as well as the fact you water temp will be few degree above ambient.
Fat tubing is so unnecessary...what... it will give you a couple degrees more performance?
^^^^ We're already talking about a method of cooling that while marginally better, doesn't blow the doors off high quality air. Use that philosophy too often and soon I have to wonder why bother at all.
Anyways, this is the second thread with a total flow killer as the topic, not surprised it is evolving to this. Most of us being US, at first look are curious what the fascination with this kind of block is. What else to do? Copy-Paste the posts from the other thread.... No. Explain how this is good when most surely want a graphics card in the loop. Some comments are kind of sharp and pointed. I don't know how it turned US vrs German but I have noticed a total different philosophy of block making than available here and it's fun to have a calm discussion about it. For now my comment is much like OPP's... you can have it. Same with the other thread. Dejavu anyone? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=51907
And a couple degrees isn't worth it? Why use anything but a stock heatsink at all then?Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverXP
wow, buying a big pump (*iwaki or some other stoff, like a bosch car pump*), getting 14mm (*or even bigger*) tubes, a small rade and a loud fan to end up with 2°C more :stick: . realy impressiv you know, you guys don't think that mush about watertemp and thats to a prob. i don't hear soemthink from my setup and get good temps, so where ist the point in going the american way and not really getting a better temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torin
edit: fat tubes give like 0,5-1° :rolleyes:
That depends... the difference between a stock Winnie/Prescott heatsink and you're most popular aftermarket HSF, a Thermalright XP-90/120 or Coolermaster Hyper6, can be huge and have a large affect on an overclock, simply because the all aluminum stock heatsinks are only used for stock cooling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torin
The difference between your average 3/8" Swiftech watercooling kit with an MCP350 and your high performance Iwaki 20RZT and Triple Fan Radiator is smaller than the previous comparison. The Iwaki setup will give you better C/W. but it will have diminishing returns on overclock performance. I know... because as a watercooler I started out high flow with an Iwaki, and got tired of the fat tubing and eventually went "German" or Swiftech and loved the aesthetic appeal because of the smaller tubing.
If you can spend all that money for an Iwaki, a triple rad, Storm block, etc. (which is what I would consider to be a "Step-up" to a standard Swiftech kit...) then why not invest in Phase-change seeing as how you're reaching that level in money.. and are concerned about those few extra degrees in performance.
Because of all the amazing performances from preconfigured setups (with low noise pumps and smaller tubing) from Swiftech and Asetek... watercooling for me isn't even high performance oriented anymore. Even Cathar himself has built a block that only increases slightly in high flow... meaning with 3/8 tubing his Storm block will still be highly effective relative to overclocks.
And I agree... I probably said this a billion times on other forums... but ohh well.. I had time on my hands.
Wow, I didnt see this for a while...
As opp said that thing is a total flow killer for no reason..
Holst, the oring is recessed into the top part of the block so the two pieces will sit flush. you can see in the picture that ther are makrs on the top of the block from the channel walls being pushed up against the brass.
Radical_53: About your euro perspective. The euro blocks work well at low flow, BUT BUT BUT... they need HUGE pumping power to get even little amounts of flow.. for instance the nexxos xp wont even get over one gpm with an IWAKI!! The american blocks give you = to or better performance and you get alot more flow which means that you get better cooling in the rad and the other blocks in the system will be getting more flow as well... All in all a better performing system.
Also you say that american blocks in general dont perform well at low flow and that is true for the most part... but to get ur average american block to the same levels of low flow, you need HALF to a QUARTER of the pumping power.. so that means i could use a TINY little pump to get the same flow as you would get with an Iwaki on alot of the german blocks..
because i can express my opinion...thats what people use forums for...relax, there nothing wrong with owning low flow equipment....Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel
Heh, that is exactly why I moved on from H2O -> Peltier double loop -> phase change with water for GPU. I figured I would spend about same money, oh boy was I wrong or what. Each modification on phase unit will be $150-300 (enough for full loop), repair if you break something starts from $100-200, shipping becomes major issue if you don't have guru around ($40-50 each way), etc, etc. And it doesn't help that it gives you a LOT more chance to burn components with trigger happy mindset of I have the temp let's jam the voltage :) Was fun while it lasted but I am taking back seat on the phase change cooling (and peltier never got back to my mind as I first hand found out how inefficient that method of cooling was... you really might as well go phase change cooling if you do plan peltier)Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverXP
Just my 2c :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Well, we had high-flow blocks here too. Thing is, that was about 5 years ago. Also, have you ever heard of the Laing/Delphi DDC pump? It's small, silent, has an impressive power and needs only ~10w to operate.
High flow might only have an effect on the efficiency of the block, but not the rad. Also, chipset/graphics blocks aren't that restrictive, as they don't have to cool as much (normally).
We also have tests here with all kinds of pumps, without flow restrictions and e.g. with 10mm tubing. Flow suffers dramatically when using 4 or 6mm ID tubing, but anything above won't harm flow that much. Also, a certain flow is needed for good performance. Anything further would only improve performance by a very small margin, nothing that you or me could really measure.
:D Wise spoken - I agree and BTW we are talking about WC for chipset - therefore You do not have to max out the flow, the heat output isn't that much than the one of a CPU.......... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_53
homemade phasechange is better and cheaper than good watercooling, so the best thing about w/cool is the silence.
Torin you only have a nf2 board, so you cant comment on whether w/cooling the chipset is still a waste. the nf3 and nf4 chipsets get burning hot on stock sinks
the point of watercooling nf3/4 is becasue the NV cards hang over chipset, and it heats them up reducing the overclock. i know from experience
so watercooling can trap the heat and move it away
:D Yep, sure man - thats also my opinion. That's the reason getting CPU on phase and chipset on water.......... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
Very true. I had phase change before, but as I'm running 24/7 I switched to w/c.Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
And yes, chipset on NF4 gets really hot, so I guess its really worth cooling it with water, especially with two 6800 monsters just in front of it.
:D Yep - though myself won't run SLI in next future I always looked for information about it and found a review about SLI temperatures, don't know where anymore, but it's been said the lower card has been measured at 80°C and the upper one even at 90°C.
That's a lot of hot stuff in rig !!!
:toast:
Yep, an awesome amount of heat. I'd never run a SLI sys on air, I'd be worried too much destroying the cards. 6800 is a hot running card anyhow, but 2 of them? No way ;) Not on air...
here's the italian mobo's chipset and vga's chipset waterblock bas been changed this is rev 2 :)
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_014.jpg
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_017.jpg
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_030.jpg
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_033.jpg
the new revision has been test with L30 pump 1meter of tube(12x17)
660 litres/hr chipset
520 litres/hr VGA
looks cool also :)
Interesting discussion and points about waterblocks, and methods to go about removing heat. There are these blocks for the nf4 chip, the Cool Cases one is about .78" tall, http://www.cool-cases-usa.com/cc_main.htm#cf-2 . I don't know abut the Aqua-Computer one, http://snt-systems.com/catalog/produ...products_id=50 . Hoses should not be a problem on either. The hoses can be on the side for the low profile Aqua-Computer one. Both are expensive though. Slightly OT, I had a Swiftech 6002 on my XP-m and it would always keep the temps 38-41 with 1.95@2600 to 2700+ and with DI on the rad could get it down to 12 (bios). Now I have a dfi nf4 and need another block. With 1/2" tube and Mag3 I was leaning toward the Cuplex-Pro, http://snt-systems.com/catalog/produ...products_id=86 as it it rated quite high at http://www.watercoolplanet.de/index....ow=1&pagenum=1 . Well ahead of some more popular US and other made types. But after reading about the restrictive properties of the Cuplex, as opposed to the free flow of the Swiftech for example, I am reconsidering my desire for the Cuplex. I can certainly see how the design of the impingement type block could work well and testing shows that. But in higher flow and considerably higher than stock cpu temps is it really better as the testing used for the chart depicts. EDIT: D@MN SILA, that a nice looking block above.
it looks to me the tubing will touch the card.
very nice.. but i would like to see a waterblock in the chipset (NB) and two boards in SLI...
:D The Waterblock shown in first post now has been modified by the developer so that it will fit on DFI NF4 together with two SLI cards and NV40 cooler.
:toast:
You dont need that flow though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
I use a german 8mm system, with 4 drive coolers, 2 gpu coolers, nb cooler, and cpu cooler plus res and 3x120 rad. Flow is 0.7l/min, with the flow sensor as last thing in the loop apart from the gpu's. With both gpus clocked over ultra speeds, adn a fx-55 at 2760 i dont go over 46deg under load. Well within limits, and stable. Who cares if it could be 2-3 deg cooler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stu_allen
:D I can confirm this.......... :YIPPIE:
46 degree on? How are you measuring this? If it is from mobo diode, that does't mean a thing to me. What temp are you reading? If it is GPU temp, wow!!! that's high for H2O.
I don't know what GPU clocks you are getting, but an FX-55 @ 2760 on water and 46C under load is plenty reason to want more flow. You could be doing better with the stock air cooling. When stock air is better than your water cooling, you can't say you don't need the flow. In your case, flow is not the only thing it seems you need. I'd imagine you are in it for looks/noise, not performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by stu_allen
@jinu: Any temp you don't measure yourself with your own sensors can't be compared the real way.
For the GPU, I've seen differences especially on 6800 series, of around 20°C comparing different cards. CPU temps could only roughly be compared if some people use the same board with the same bios.
Example: My 6800 GT got up to 90°C under load on air, only 47° load with water. Quite a difference. Still, some people reported ~60°C under load on air. Can't be compared, right?
@torin: 46°, 2.8GHz, stock cooling? Of course... 30° load with water cooling, eh? Stop kidding around.
There's no "magic" with water cooling, just stuff that can be measured. It has been compared more than once, and the result was more than clear.
Excuse me but that is what I asked. If your CPU block temp is reading 47c on water cooling, it is tad high for me. My FX-55 running 2.95ghz won't get near there :P GPU temp is even more drastic but it seems to me ur using 6800ultra so that is left to be judged (back of card temp reading always is good on this and mine gets to 33c with jamming 1.64v and 620/590 on X800XT), of course, my setup doesn't happen to be typical setup with 2 MCP-600 dual heatercore, 1/2" id and G4 + Silverprop HL. But to dismiss flow doesn't mean much in many block is... errrr... just bad assumption granted other things don't hold up. I turn one of the pump off and I see 3-4c increase temp on blocks (about 2-3c on water temp increase). There is no magic in water cooling. More flow will always net you better temp and in this case, with such restriction, you need all the flow you can get with chipset block to increase performance. I've had both NV6800 block and Maze4 GPU block on 6800 Ultra at one point and temp reading differed as much as 7c due to flow killer (nv6800) on MCP350 and BIM2. (exact same card) (Really, what a waste of money on that nv6800...)
Even NV6800 doesn't look as much of flow killer as some of these chipset cooler design I see, so... of course I will always hold my judgement till somoene actually TRIES it out and shows comparison result in same system.
Well, I've always measured my GPU temps on the back of the card for as long as I had a Radeon. Now, with the 6800 there's too much stuff on the back. So now, I put my sensors aside the die, close enough that the sensor touches the core.
One thing I'm curious about: How come that with less flow your water temp increases? I've never seen any impact of flow on water temperatures, only some water blocks show different results with more/less flow, at least as far as I know.
Sounds interesting so far, how's your radiator build?
And yes, I agree with you that a flow killer can't really be judged just by its looks. I had two different blocks on my 6800, one which looked really restrictive, the other one looked like good flow. Measuring both of them, flow was basically the same (difference was less than I could measure correctly).
How did u get into core? Got some of the shim off? I have Weapon heatercore (the 2 120mm fan one). Actual restrictiveness only comes from GPU and CPU block really per say considering my pumping power. (dual mcp600) Now since both GPU and CPU are heavily restrictive, what I would guess is happening is waterflow drops more than by half (certain threshold) by activating only single pump thus rendering radiator less effective. Thus water temp going up. (not as much as block though) Unfortunately when people do review on waterblock for flow vs performance, the peformance difference have to include efficiency of radiator based on flow. Reason why I like pro-cooling review as they do delta of water temp vs block temp instead of ambient vs block temp. Depending on how restrictive the setup is, there is big difference on temperature with pump. I once tried external watercooling loop with eheim1250 and that actually increased temperature with same comoponents by 2c due to extra 4ft of tubing. Now I understand some components are better designed in mind with lower flow than others but still less flow = less performance. I would love to see someone review this though... just for hell of it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_53
Noise mostly. Dont care about looks - no windows in my case ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Torin
46 is cpu temp using the mobo diode, but i'm rebuilding at the moment using the dfi board instead of the asus, so i'll thermal expoxy a temp sensor onto the copper base of the waterblock if i can.
Clocks were very much limited by the asus motherboard not being able to supply enough vcore, not to mention reluctance to clock tccd over 240.
In terms of chipset waterblocks, both of these koolance blocks fit just fine with 2 6800GTs and aquagrafx waterblocks.
GPU-180-H06 (Vid)
http://www.koolance.com/shop/images/gpu-180-h06_02.jpg
http://www.koolance.com/shop/product...products_id=87
CHC-A05 (MB)
http://www.koolance.com/shop/images/chc-a05_02.jpg
http://www.koolance.com/shop/product...products_id=86
Ive ended up using the latter, as it has very little flow restriction (the top one has quite a bit more, but a lot more surface area too) and is generally easier to work with for the position of the barbs.
@jinu: I have a dual 120mm radiator too, I'll have to check how yours looks ;) Interesting thing. Still, normally only the blocks can improve with more flow, due to their design. Also, as you said, your temperatures went up, just as the water temperature. So your delta stayed the same basically, right?
And yes, I agree with you that the only "correct" testing method can be to measure the delta, not the "overall temperature" itself, as any good block would suffer from this (it can take away more heat, water temp is raised, overall temperature goes up).
Also, I saw the same thing like you did with too long tubing. I once re-worked my whole setup and shortened all tubes, put the whole thing together in a different way (blocks stayed in place). Improvement was roughly 5°, without changing any of my cooling components.
About the measurement: My sensor is only "touching" the side of the GPU itself, it's not in there or anything. I cut out a little piece of the sensors tip and put some thermal grease between the sensor and the GPU to make it a little more accurate.
The problem with restrictive blocks is two fold.
First, you get lower flow. This obviously hurts performance, but can be compensated for with good design or large pumps (see the NexXxoS).
The second problem is that low flow starts to hurt your radiator performance and you have to compensate with a large radiator (more fans), faster fans or a much larger pump. Either way you start to get noiser just to get the same performance as you could have gotten with a lower restriction block. Obviously if you're not too concerned with performance, this may be acceptable, but then you start to go down the whole slippery slope of water vs. air cooling and cost vs. benefit.
Hmm, not sure i understand that. Surely lower flow *through the rad* is good - you transfer more heat to the fins - and then air.Quote:
Originally Posted by saratoga
See http://www.thermal-management-testing.com/radiat13.gif for flow vs heat dissipation.
Flow and rads is not necicarally more = better.
Sometimes more flow through rad = WORSE performance.
Read billa's stuff on overclockers.com
@saratoga: More flow for the blocks means more performance (no matter how much exactly "more" is), but more flow through the rad?
Doesn't make sense. I've never seen any rad to have different perfomance with different flow rates. As the other two say, it doesn't make any sense ;)
In my case, I use a Laing DDC pump (called Swiftech DDC here, even if it's made in Germany) and a Black Ice Radiator (couldn't find much about the "weapon heatercore" on the net), performance is really important.
As I use the Nexxxos blocks and a pump with good pressure, I won't need too much flow to get a decent performance.
Interesting, but the water temp increase I get isn't lying to me :P (very easy for me to test since pumps are serial). Maybe single MCP600 with those 2 restrictive block is not enough to even give decent flow for system to hit sweet spot? In which case, chipset block such as mentioned would be as problematic as G4 or silverprop.
Well, who knows the reason? Seams complicated, still I can't believe it's the lower efficiency of the rad because of low flow... really, I've never seen anything like that. Do you have a picture or something of your rad?
And, how do you measure your flow? Normally a second pump would not double the flow, maybe give an 80% increase or so. I'll try that as soon as I get my double-DDC case ;)
I know some people that have rads like nuclear plants (not as big, but works just like there), which do really need all the flow they can get.
:D The one in post #1 fits perfectly - if I get a working board some day will tell the temps here........... :toast:
why argue about WC start using phase change no rad pump waer block restriction problem.
and with a good made phase unit you can get -20°c
Well, that's just what I said here somewhere. If you want to have those really low temps, you'll have to phase chance anyhow.
So the advantage of watercooling has to be something else ;) For me, it's lower temps than air cooling combined with lower noise than air cooling and phase change. For me, it's an sufficient and efficient way of cooling, but nowhere close to break records ;)
:D Can not confirm the waterblock is a "flowkiller" - got nice temps with it, about 10° C lower than using the chipset stock aircooler.......... :p:
You can check it here:
<img src="http://img174.exs.cx/img174/4557/85192kn.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" />
:toast:
No, it's definitely not a flow killer. For my system, flow wasn't reduced by it, temps are quite good (never used stock though), ~30-33°C under load.
Muhahaha I'm bringing this thread back to life :D So what kind of options do we have now for chipset waterblocks on the DFI nf4s?