So yeah, I've been planning this little project and managed to pull it off today :D
I've played with Dry Ice and LN2 for a couple years now, and have identified some problems and solutions which I implemented in today's project.
So... hold on guys.
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So yeah, I've been planning this little project and managed to pull it off today :D
I've played with Dry Ice and LN2 for a couple years now, and have identified some problems and solutions which I implemented in today's project.
So... hold on guys.
You see, the main problem to DI/LN2 benching is condensation, it's a b*tch and will mess up your hardware. About a year ago I discovered DSI fluids and a product called OPTI-COOL. It's a di-electric oil that is pourable to about -90C.
SO I thought, hey, why not submerse a mobo a couple inches under OIL? No foam, no saran wrap, nothing! So I picked up this great little resealable plastic tub. I placed the mobo on spacers in the tub, elevating it about 1cm. from the bottom jus tincase any water made it into the oil. I mounted the LN2 container, a massive 1000gram block of Copper and all miscellaneous cables and such. Then I poured in 2 gallons of OPTI-COOL rfom the nice folks at DSI FLUIDS in Texas.
It also had the nice effect of pushing fluid thru the Silencer4 also....
I
So I rigged up a FLUKE 50D dual probe thermometer, one lead to the side of the CPU, and one into the tub measuring fluid temp.
Let me back up, the equipment is:
FX-55 week 46
K8N Neo2 good 0441 chipset
G.Skill 2 x 256mB "LA"
OCZ Powerstream 520W PSU
Mobo is running BIOS 1.4 with a Vcore mod. Remainder is stock.
So there we are, the rig is taking a bath, and is running fine 2" under fluid, lol!! WHAT A SIGHT!
So I start taking the temp DOWN, seems to be taking QUITE a bit longer than usual with all the fluid. It seems the OIL was acting like an INSULATOR and was taking a bit of energy to cool. But slowly temps dropped. The rig was OFF at this point, just watching temps.
So it get's a bit colder and I fire her up. I was at about -60C or so... good single phase change territory. Went in and pulled off a 3450, e-z as pie.
About this time I hook up the fluid temperature probe and see our fluid temp is below zero, about -5C. I keep pulling the temp down, into cascade territory :D
So I decide, OK let's go for screenies at the "hundreds" up to it's MAX. Here's 3500mHz
Starting to see seriously cold temps... way past the Cascade boys :stick:
Blasted by 3600Mhz!!
And this is IHS temperature, NOT the base temp!!
So there I am, with 3600Mhz under my belt. The plan is to find a ceiling and come back and run benchies at the "sweet spot". Board is starting to have some difficulties about -120C.... Very bad cold-booting problems, could be the OCZ PSU, too.... they have a rep for that kind of thing. But I managed to pull it down another 20C or so.... and pull off 3700mHz+
By this time, the fluid temp is about -10C, just perfect for most motherboard components :rolleyes:
So after 3708mHz, I pull her down to about -135C and openher up at about 1.92Vcore, get into Clockgen and slowly pull her up and up.... 3730, 3760 and at 3796mHz I went BSOD. So immediately I knew it was all about Vcore. I shut her off and upped Vcore to about 2.0v. I knew from experience that this would net me about 3830 or so and THUS!!!!!
THE WORLD RECORD at any spot north of Memesama's 3828mHz.... I was sitting at about -140C and hit the switch, nothing......
and then nothing....
and then nothing.
She never booted up again. I thawed all out and checked the components.... the board would boot and spin the fans and Vid Card, but no video. The HS/F got warm....
I returned home and tested the Vid Card - OK, the DDR - OK so , it's between the FX-55 (doubtful, as it warmed the hs/f) probably the K8N Neo2.... or the OCZ PSU.........
So that's it.... it's all I've got for you!!!! Didn't quite accomplish what I wanted to, but had a lot of FUN!!!!!!
Lesson #1 from benching LN2 >>>>> Go for your highest best bench FIRST!! Just incase you kill something!!! Only has a chance to run 1 Superpi benchie @ 3400+mHz and 24s....
Even had about 5 liters EXTRA LN2!!! After feezing just about everything at work, I even had to throw some away :(
THE END :D
wow.........computers submerged in liquid....technology of the future
:slobber: wow and i have easy access to LN2, its a shame i cant just got allmost kill my parts like that :p:
Hey hey Charlie, nice adventure. I always wanted to try submerging the mobo but never got around to it. I bet it looked cool.
My question is why did you keep shutting it off? Couldn't you just keep resetting?
Nice:)
OPP
So they say ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pc ice
EDIT: For those of you wondering what PCIce is talking about, there is rumor that some big manufactorer is supose to break the 4 gig mark on a AMD overclock before the month is up:D
OPP
thx, OPP....Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
well I was thinking, the LN2 is $4/liter and I'm in a hurry. I want to run some 3D at like 3600mHz, lol and some 22s SuperPi....and it was taking too long to drop temp on the desktop... plus I didn't know WHERE the CPU or board would freak out, so I kept trying it at colder and colder temps.... don't know why, but even using VID trick (holding Vcore at 1.6v with Clockgen in desktop) it would just EAT LN2, dropping maybe 2C every minute.... I was impatient :(
C
Yea I don't even like shuting down my rig at -90C and starting it back up, If at all possable. Somtimes if I have to do that I have problems firing it back up. In fact I start my rig at about 10C these days and let the cooler get cold while the CPU is running.
OPP
That's the numero UNO advantage to cascades, just set it and grab a frozen burrito or something... no hurry, no rush, just watch the temps.....Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
And to add to my bad evening, my dewar ended up in the trash.... it developed a pinhole in the vacuum shell, and started hissing at me :) and once they lose their vacuum, they're done!
I'll take that as a hint, I just need a cascade! Hmmmm.... Wonder how Chilly's doin' on my GPU cascade??
It's just that I'm paranoid:D I think when somthing sits there at -90c with no heat, that if I fire it up, the sudden voltage spike will end up cracking somthing:D
Yep, probably just paranoid.
OPP
I don't know what went south today.... like I said, either the CPU/Mobo or PSU. I'm thinking mobo. But yeah, good point. I remember reading about keeping the rig ON during LN2 benching, just like for DI benching, but I wanted the BIG -numbers and rushed it....
OTOH, I was only 1 re-boot away from a WR.....
C
Its aight man, You will get it next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
Hopefully you'll have a nice NF4 mobo to play with and memory a better Cpu.
Remember, Failure Can Be Your First Succcess. If you Don't Try You Can't Succeed. If You Fail You Always Learn Something Toward your Next Try.
-Something like that.. Anyways, just Try again ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
I wonder What Mobo There Going to use? :????????????????: xD
which reminds me... I got an e-mail from Zipzoomfly that the DFi DR-SLI was in-stock, out of stock 3 hours later, though.
C
i would imagine if you benched like that your videocard would have trouble because the oil would create a lot of friction for the fan on the silencer
Cool stuff :banana:
Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
well when the oil is subzero temps, the fan running wouldnt matter much..
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
The Sli Went out of stock in about 15mins. The Ultra-D was avil i think over an hour.
Watch out on NE, They should have it anyday by now.
very nice.. so you found out it it's teh cpu or board that's dead ?
I am betting the board. Nice results & idea charlie :D
Awesome stuff Charlie!
Were your fans running? LIke reject said... maybe the fans were trying to push the liquid and drawing too much current... blew a fan header or more in the process. Jus a guess though.
Also, I've heard (yeh, it could be all sheeet for all i know) that BIOS chips dont like the cold too much...
HOw much was the non-conductive fluid?
Xtreme adventure charlie :toast:
great experience, how cold was the oil??(the cooler it got)
you could have everything under oil and no fans maybe, if the temp was low enough.
p.d. is abit the one that would try to break 4ghz?? with the fatality mobo??
charliee!!! thats FU(|=!nG AWESOME!! nice to have people like you in this forum WOW! THATS SOME ExTREME OVERCLOCKING!!! :banana: :D I love it!!
Why not attach a passive heatsink on the videocard, and then use a submergible pump (intended for watercooling) to pump a stream of cool liquid onto it and the GPU heatsink?
PS: Cool overclock!!
Now that Awesome!!
omg ~3.7+Ghz is very sweet for athlon :cool:
Haven't seen that much before.
it isnt athlon, athlon died a while ago :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
the force is strong .....
nice one charlie
great stuff to read charlie.
I was just smiling ear to ear reading and looking at all that, cause it just kept getting better and better. Keep going, your so close, first try is always the learning run, same like it was when you mess with dry ice the first times ;)
:D Hey Charlie - good luck for next time, how many dollars did Ya blow away ???
:toast:
Wanna try that out too :slobber: Looks fun!
:up: sounded like a lot of fun - I´d enjoy reading about and was actually expecting a new WR :stick:
No seriously you did retrieve some very nice clocks anyway :) :slobber:
Ha,ha,ha...........You are crazy charlie :D
NICE work you did there..........It's petty you got unlucky though...........Next time you'll be lucky....... :)
nice work! Keep working on this... :)
awsome charlie!!! good luck next time!!
if board was the problem why not trying LN2 on CPU only?!
Amazing
Very fun to read aswell :)
too bad your hardware gave up... howmuch hardware do you nutcrackers destroy with your extreme ways?
anyways, hope too see you brake that record real soon :stick: :D
Wow that is some crazy stuff man.. Hope you get another stab at it soon enough.. Would be great if you could get the WR. We all know you have been trying for it for a while now.
Opp, where did this rumor come from? The OC fairy?
Good Show Charlie :)
Way to go Charlie. This is without a doubt the most Xtreme thing I have ever seen. Keep it up, and may the force be with you :D
lets hope it was the mobo and not the CPU that died... the $$$... the pain...
:D But beware of that blank expression on Your face shown at Your avatar..... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
Same here OPP..Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
In between runs I always wait till the thermal bus warms up and then I break the rig down, heat it up with a hairdryer, then put back on cascade before I can bench again.
Takes forever to bench this way, but its the only way I dont experience cold boot probs or dead hardware.
Charlie, that is some xtreme work :toast: and so sorry to hear about your rig. I know it's crushing when things happen like that.
3600+ or even 3700+ bench stable would be insane.
Whoaaa, that's amazing. Too bad you weren't able to boot again - you had the WR in your hands there :(
How much does this oil stuff cost?
Hehe , you are one crazy guy Charlie :D
Hope u u get better luck next time.
Omg teh ex to the modda treme :X
RIP to whatever died :(
Still some omg Mhz :slobber:
Insane, you have to do it again. :)
Hope u can acchieve the WR Charlie...
Crazy experience indeed...
WE WANT MORE :D
man, if that isnt hardcore nothing is...
That setup looks so COOL!
very well planned i think :)
Charlie, you are one crazy geek - and thanks for that :toast:
Hope you have better luck (and more patience :D) next time my friend :devil:
awesome project, and you get an A+ for having a clean work area. if you have ever seen some of these other peoples places.lol
Yea the OC fairy told me.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
I'm not gunna say, incase the rumor is wrong. I'll say this though, I don't think anyone would guess, that these certain people, are attempting the 4gigs:D
OPP
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
Shhhh.. your going to Make the Newbies Crazy..
Better Tell...... How to use the Ice Cooling before they think they can Break this 4ghz barrier..
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
:D :D ;)
thx, everybody :D
now just have to find something to clean oil off of parts
I simply closed the top of the plastic tub/ case thing, saving the oil.... can just open it up and use it again, next time maybe with x850/nf4.... or with my new 6800U-SLI cards.
C
:D Here best will be do detonate an A-bomb - will clean up everything.........Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
:toast:
It's an odd oil. You can clean it up with paper towels. It actually absorbs into the towel. Like water. Will be tough to clean out of the Silencer4, though! I would suggest this stuff for some kind of a chiller/liquid cooling setup. I'm sure it's pump-able....
C
How viscous is it? What would you compare it to? Thicker than 100% anti-freeze or closer to alcohol/water?
OMG :slobber: that sure was an Extreme project :banana:
Too bad not everything went exactly as planned :( I'm sure you would have set a nice new WR)
Questions about the fluid:
What are the properties of needed for such a fluid. Can't find very much information on the internet on OPTI-COOL, but I can imagine any fluid with a very low freezingpoint and water resistant properties could be used. Am I right on this one?
I've heard of people before who were using a kind of olive oil where they submerged their systems in and got decent temps (but not subzero). Is there a list of possible fluids like anti freeze for cars (but then those that don't intermix with H20) somebody can think off?
- How's the mem holding out on those temps. It's the first time I've seen someone cooling their mem as much as you did. Since the mem is very close to the socket I can image it also get's very cold :D
Hope you have better luck next time :)
http://dsifluids.com/
http://dsifluids.com/tech_guides.html
their "Alpha2" fluid may be even BETTER suited...
This is a breath of fresh air for xs. It's been a while since I've read something so interesting on here(no offence) it's just that I love this kind of experimental stuff. Very creative! If it wsan't for the neo2 you would've made it to 3.8.
LOL..... maybe I should RMA the Neo2 (tongue in cheek)
Can you imagine some refurb Tech opening it up on a bench, especially CLEAN looking board.... with OIL oozing out of the LAN and USB ports, lmao.....
C
great job m8 ammazing!!!
so extremely awesome
Truly one of the best overclocking endeavors I've read about in a long time. It was really an exciting read...too bad about the losses though. Personally though I'd still consider it a success as getting a screenshot at 3.7Ghz on an FX55 is HUGE! :) I can't wait till you hit 3.8/3.9...I know you will. Best of like Charlie.
I know!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
It's EMachines!!!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana4:
and what do they plan on using as cooling?Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
if the japanese emperor, memesama, cant get "even" 3.9ghz with LN2, then i dont see how anyone outside of AMD's labs can even dream of getting 4ghz...
maybe nasa has found out that putting the mobo in space with no heatsink works wonders. :D
(lets not get into the obvious technicalities about that, i know...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik-ard v1.1
Unless maybe backed by some serious $$$ and connections within AMD themselves? Early fx-57 test samples.. 90nm SSDOI test samples? etc..? :slobber:
Sometimes I wanna be an engineer for those places :D
I am surprised you big boys don't eat through boards faster :) The amount of v-core you push through at that load alone probably will eat mobo randomly (and quite frequently). I myself killed few boards in record time just shoving 2.0v around 3.4ghz... I even saw a fire once :P) Maybe you should try to modify mobo ready to go on this venture next time so it can handle the amperage :) This was primiry reason I backed down from my Mach II and in water cooling... I will never get too venterous with water cooling to burn components left and right like I used to :)
great read, charlie! thanks for sharing this near-WR experience with us :)
Nice job:up:
:right click save as: :)
nice project, i´ll see some benches with your sli cards:D
Where can I get some of that OIL charlie?
Me and a Friend have got some DI tubes. Instead of going through insulating the cou socket etc and graphics card this would be sooo much easier. Im sure that I will do not so good job on the insulation on the gpu and kill the card or something but this OIL method is brilliant :D
Charlie, something you should try is putting the PSU in the liquid. The PSU's need cooling, plus it might increase peak output since most PSU's have peak output at colder temps. Good job by the way. Don’t disappoint us. You have to reach 4 GHz.
Now I would think thats risky...
wow that looks awsome! Where can we get some of that stuff :) ??? Also i was wondering how your submerged fans (nb fan for example) behaved submerged in that stuff. Were they still going fast and acting like pumps? were they stopped? Thanks!
why didn't you insulate the tub? (outside)
VERY nice work charlie :D
hope you break the WR next time :)
i am 99% sure that it wont be an FX-55. It seems like it would be to hardQuote:
Originally Posted by pik-ard v1.1
i am thinking either Venice or San Diego core procs
that was a great read man! xtreme fun with ln2 :D did you find out what died? hopefully not teh fx55, thats expensive :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennah
:toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
You actually got my jaw open with this one, really nice work charlie.
Maybe you should try actually heating around the cpu socket with a small heater or something? You would probably get slightly higher cpu temps but if the IHS is at -100 then the stuff right around the processor is probably what caused the board to die...
Maybe I'm just crazy though.
This is extremely interesting. A very cool experiment/ project. Got me thinking, has anyone ever made a vacuum-ed rig? I assume if there is no air around the cold components, no chance for condensation right?
Anyway, this is the coolest (no pun intended) thing I have seen in quite a while, thanks for sharing with us!
It was pretty crazy.... after about an hour, the oil FROZE around the baseplate and tube. Looked like vanilla ice cream ;)
I was actually thinking the fluid might help the caps and such NOT GET too cold. I mean the fluid was no cooler than -10C, that probably WARMED the components near the CPU socket,
About the submerged fans, I unplugged the NB fan (it was probably cooled well enough ;) )
Awesome job charlie!
freakin' extreme :banana4: :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
so your mobo prolly died because of the fluid that was frozen and because of that those components around the socket fried? :(
http://dsifluids.com/A2%20Brochure.PDF
dielectric breakdown 58kV !!
sink the PSU !! :banana4: :banana: :banana4:
Charlie you have to send that board back to msi like that... They will flip.. it should be a good laugh..
that is amazing charlie... amazing
good work :D
You could have used isoprophyl alcohol instead of oil IMO. If you bench for ~ 1h there would be no problems as long as N2 would push humidity out of the chamber with alcohol
A great read Charlie. I hope you had as much fun doing it as I did reading it. Hope it's not the FX that fried on ya.
lol.... I didn't want the alk headache like after DI experiments and it's just generally smelly :(Quote:
Originally Posted by berkut
Oh and the oil's reusable :)
C
How much did the 2gal. of OPTI-COOL run you, Charlie? :)
Well, I had it for review, I'm not sure of the retail price....Quote:
Originally Posted by twilius_basic
OH!!! And slightly OT, when I got home last night I threw my x800xtPE in my 24/7 rig to make sure it wasn't the problem and noticed it's quieter than before the bath!!! Seems that the oil re-lubed the fan, lol
C