intel "dual core" pictures

this could be the proof that the "dual core" pentium 4 sample intel showcased and presented recently was indead not quite a dual core but had two nocona dies on one 775 package like the rumors that were spread shortly after the presentation suggested. the die size looks exaclty like a prescott/nocona.

im not sure if its a prescott/nocona, if somebody knows what this thing is instead please enlighten me ;)

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19915

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19916

thx a lot to ussbeethoven for pointing me to that auction :toast:

here is the original thread where he posted about his finding

hmmm it could just be a dummy to test boards or heatsinks, but the fine channels we can see on the pcb are odd and are not found on thermal or mobo test dummies... plus it has two cores...

if this is a dummy it might mean all later intel "dual core" cpus will actually be made of two single dies on one package... if not then why would a dummy have two dies if the final cpu will have a single die?

and it has smd parts on the bottom.... do dummies have smd parts on their bottom?

oh my god, that looks sick...

Its lga style socket, but it looks to have less than 775 pins (or whatever the heck intel uses now days)

And the black and gold thing is really wierd. All of their enginner samples are normal colors and ive never seen a gold colored piece of silicon. not from intel or amd.... odd. I would have to guess that its just for heat testing. I saw a heatsinks that had built in tecs that was an intel dual core cooler. This was probably uses for thermal load testing maybe. But i doubt intel would be so boldy stupid as to use two seperate cores on their finished product. It would jsut double the cost of production. IF thei were on the same die, it would reduce costs by alot. less cost of pcb as well. But its intel so who knows. Who was seling this thing btw.. And did intel go after them.. And for that mater do we even know its intel!?

i counted them, its 775 :D

left row is 9x30 , right row is 9x30, upper row is 8x15 and lower row is 8x15 minus 2 up on the right and 2 up on the low end minus one missing in the lower right end.

its 775 "pins"

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

I would have to guess that its just for heat testing.

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the thin lines on the pcb dont look like they are used to pump a lot of current for a resistance as artificial heat source... and look at how many of those thin lines it has... that doesnt make much sence... for a heat dummy all you need is very few lines on the pcb.

and IF it is a heat dummy, then why does it have two dies? that would mean the final "dual core" chips would have two dies as well then... or why else would you use two dies?

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

i doubt intel would be so boldy stupid as to use two seperate cores on their finished product. It would jsut double the cost of production.IF thei were on the same die, it would reduce costs by alot. less cost of pcb as well.

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:confused: how so?

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Who was seling this thing btw.. And did intel go after them.. And for that mater do we even know its intel!?

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the guy has good feedback on ebay so far, he claims he got this with a bunch of other stuff from a warehouse of a company that went bankrupt ... sounds very weird, but the pics dont look faked... i doubt he got the cpu think from an old warehouse, but that doesnt make this thing less real to me.

What exactly did people think dual cores would look like? It's exactly how I expect it to look.

well the opteron dual cores look like this: its just one big die with two cores and a "hub" that controlls the traffic between both cores on it.

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19919

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19920

Oh, I have never seen those pics before.

First time a processor ever looked 'cool'. :P I hope they come out like that

saaya you have been silent in the past weeks not seen many posts of you....

hau rein und kauf dat ding :D

nah its already at 40€ :D

plus looking at the pic it might be a fake... it looks a bit odd....

its def not a pentium pro like some people suggested :stick:

the smd part size looks more or less correct...

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19933

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19934

green is solder balls, so the smd part size is pretty realistic i think...
the parts from the prescott i copied and pasted into the pic are slightly bigger, but the other chips is lying flat wich makes the parts smaller automatically...

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Originally Posted by iljs

First time a processor ever looked 'cool'. :P I hope they come out like that

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Maybe they finally might show some power from intel cpu's in gaming as well ? :stick: :D

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Originally Posted by mrlobber

Maybe they finally might show some power from intel cpu's in gaming as well ? :stick: :D

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game=single thread ;) a dual core wont mean a boost in games at all... maybe 5% over a single core cpu at the same clockspeed ;) but since dual core cpus will come clocked slower than already current cpus they will probably be slower in games... quite a bit slower...

hmmm

th die size looks similar

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19935

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19936

Well Saaya, It was just a guess. I showed it to my dad and he thinks its possible that its military. He refered to the fact that the military uses gold contacts for everything becuase it is an inert metal. He said this in answer to why the heck are the dies gold.

It is most certainly a new chip though. Its possible that its a test chip that intel put together to show investors. The gold and black color scheme to impress those rich slobs.

About it beaning cheaper to manufacture. over two small ones. With one die you just need to put the interconnects between the two parts of the chip. its all one thing. you dont need to break it up. but with two chips you need both of them and then you need to break them up and then you need to make a controller that goes between the two of them. So in actuallity there would need to be 3 pieces of silicon unless one of the dies had the dual core controller in it. And then there would be two different chips going into a board and what if more of the ones with controllers went bad. that means an overstock of the non controlle ones... its just a pain in the ass.. As well the pcb would be more complicated to route between the two chips. this would also be slower due to the longer traces between the cpus... all in all a bad solution imo.

i think its a fake...

look at the two dies, they overlap the circle of dots wich is very weird.

and look at the area around the dies, it has a slightly different tone wich looks very weird like somebody copied and pasted the cores on the package via photoshop.

if its a fake i think he changed the color of the package to make it look like a ceramic package, but he forgot to remove the fine channels on the right.


http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=19938

It there any chance this might be a photochop? Doesnt the core at the top of the first picture looks kinda akward (reflection) and just reversed from the buttom core. Or is it just getting to late for me here in dk :hehe: :p:



*edit: dammit saaya beat me to it :cool:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Well Saaya, It was just a guess. I showed it to my dad and he thinks its possible that its military. He refered to the fact that the military uses gold contacts for everything becuase it is an inert metal. He said this in answer to why the heck are the dies gold.

It is most certainly a new chip though. Its possible that its a test chip that intel put together to show investors. The gold and black color scheme to impress those rich slobs.

About it beaning cheaper to manufacture. over two small ones. With one die you just need to put the interconnects between the two parts of the chip. its all one thing. you dont need to break it up. but with two chips you need both of them and then you need to break them up and then you need to make a controller that goes between the two of them. So in actuallity there would need to be 3 pieces of silicon unless one of the dies had the dual core controller in it. And then there would be two different chips going into a board and what if more of the ones with controllers went bad. that means an overstock of the non controlle ones... its just a pain in the ass.. As well the pcb would be more complicated to route between the two chips. this would also be slower due to the longer traces between the cpus... all in all a bad solution imo.

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well all intel would have to do to make two single dies on one package act like a dual core cpu would be to manipulate the system interface (quad pumped bus interface) so both cpus would communicate via it. or it uses the L3 cache interface prescotts already have to make them communicate via this interface somehow... i think its not hard at all to get two single cores to act like a dual core cpu if you put them on one package... but yeah, got your point, i think it would indeed be more complicated that way, BUT you would have a much better yield if you first get single dies from a wafer and then connect them to a "dual core" cpu.

if you have a dual core die with one core that does 3.4ghz and one that does 2.8ghz then you can only sell it as a 2.8ghz dual core cpu. if you have single cores first you can pick to 3.4ghz cores and add them to a 3.4ghz dual core chip. i think this would boost the yield a lot...


what i still dont get is why this guy faked the pics :confused: attention? :stick:

i mean he sold 180 items on ebay!!!! why would he risk his feedback for this bs? i mean as soon as somebody buys it and realizes that what he gets is completely differenct to what he saw on those pics he will make sure that guy gets into trouble...

maybe his ebay account got hacked and somebody is having his way with him? :confused:

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Originally Posted by bias_hjorth

*edit: dammit saaya beat me to it :cool:

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:p:

the longer i look at it the more i see it and the more i vbelieve its a fake :/
awww would have been nice... to see a dual core p4 :( :D

it does seem unreal, but why would this guy be faking it?

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Originally Posted by Aphex_Tom_9

it does seem unreal, but why would this guy be faking it?

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Because no matter how logical most of us think, there is always some sucker out there that will beleive anything. (Visit the [H] for once ;) )

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Originally Posted by WesM63

Because no matter how logical most of us think, there is always some sucker out there that will beleive anything. (Visit the [H] for once ;) )

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true, true, but this guy has good feedback...why would he randomly decide to start conning?
jacked account mayhaps?

well, just for the hell of it, check out the P5 quad-core chip i got-
;)

Aphex how much you sellin' that p5 for!! I want it!

let's say...$1600
each core operates at 4ghz with 2mb l2 cache, should be on the market officially around Q2 2006...

(note to anyone who's gonna be like "ohh!!1 no selling outside teh classifidz!!!" this is a fake)

wat is the little slivery thing on the bottom core? it looks scratched or is it like on an AXP the little logo?

a reflection?

Is it just me or does the topside picture of the dual proc look alot like an athlon thunderbird? They used that color and more brittle texture on the pcbs.

not always ...

while one core is processing the game thread (if windows becomes that smart to dedicate one "CPU" to one thread), the the other core can be used for something else (Doom3's sound engine can be in a diff thread, or you could be using it for something else, like background tasks ...)

so, the performance increase WILL be there ... I think there will be one level of perfomance (some percentage) that we will see across the board (on AMD and on Intel CPUs)

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Originally Posted by saaya

game=single thread ;) a dual core wont mean a boost in games at all... maybe 5% over a single core cpu at the same clockspeed ;) but since dual core cpus will come clocked slower than already current cpus they will probably be slower in games... quite a bit slower...

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Slavik: Its entirely based on how the game is written. IF the game is written to use one core then two cores wont do jack.. Its also based on the OS too. So if you run win98 and are playing tribes then you wont see any performance gains. Because the os and the prog have no idea what the heck is going on with the dual core... I dont think XP would handle it either though... It seems to do good with hyperthreading, but this is a bit different.

hyperthreading is barely different then dual cores, the only real difference is the underlying hardware, but from a software perspective they operate identically. In fact, the current linux kernal for dual core labels dual core as CMP (Chip Multi-Processing) and Hyperthreading as CMP_Legacy.

i am really looking forward to seeing what type of heat these are going to put off. I would also be interested if someone could find me a link with an intel cooler with a built in tec. Thats just sick if it's true.

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Originally Posted by slavik

not always ...

while one core is processing the game thread (if windows becomes that smart to dedicate one "CPU" to one thread), the the other core can be used for something else (Doom3's sound engine can be in a diff thread, or you could be using it for something else, like background tasks ...)

so, the performance increase WILL be there ... I think there will be one level of perfomance (some percentage) that we will see across the board (on AMD and on Intel CPUs)

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that really depends on the game engine, i started a thread on 3dcenter.de about something similar. i started a thread if its possible to split a thread into two smaller threads or re-arange the threads in any other way, because if you could, then a dual core 3ghz p4 would almost be as fast as a single core 6ghz p4. 3dcenter has some really really smart and professional people on their board.

here, its in german though:
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...d.php?t=183363

even demirug replied :D he said he is working on a new engine for a game wich could take advantage of dual cores, but they all agreed that its very difficult if not most likely impossible to change an existing engine or program to be multi threadded. something like a tool or compiler that changes the code to multiple threads is not possible according to them.

they also said that windows xp should be fine, you really just need to write the game engines or applications to be multithreadded and not single threadded.

intels desktop dual cores, the x series, will be clocked at 2.8-3.2ghz at introduction and each core will most likely be a prescott with 1mb L2 cache. by the same time we should already have 2mb L2 cache prescotts clocked to 3.8ghz and with a 1066bus, in games and other single thread applications a dual core cpu will be almost as "slow" as a single core cpu, wich means a dual core 3.2ghz cpu will have no chance against a single core 3.8ghz 2mb L2 cache 1066 prescott... and the dual cores will cost a LOT! some say 1500$... :eek:

and the amd dual cores will come clocked at only 1.4-1.8ghz! that means an athlon64 3000+ will most likely beat amds fastest dual core cpu in games and other single threadded applications...


EDIT:
a member of 3dcenter suggest that the guy who posted this pics probably faked them to get attention for his other auctions he linked from that acution. he probably hopes that his auction gets linked from many forum wich creates a lot of traffic to his other acutions as well...

hope ebay closes his account... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DGeNeRaT3

i am really looking forward to seeing what type of heat these are going to put off. I would also be interested if someone could find me a link with an intel cooler with a built in tec. Thats just sick if it's true.

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I talked to an AMD guy about this a few months ago, and at least on the dual core A64s you wont see as big of a difference as you would think. I dont remember exact numbers, but I remember it was only like 25% (or somewhere around that number) more heat dissipation.

well if this is the case, this is good news. things sure are getting exciting on the CPU front thats for sure. I really can't wait for a dual core AMD desktop cpu. The one area that intel has AMD beat (just personal expierence!!) is multitasking and running two applications at once. You imagine a dual core AMD 64 FX series chip? it would smoke in games (single threaded applications) and rock for burning a DVD and running A graphics editiing software suite. Viva la Dual core!

yeah, in multithreadded apps a dual core will give you an 80% boost over a single core cpu... its a bit like sli for your cpu :D

and heat dissipation... from what i heard amd tries to keep them below 100W, intel instead said they are trying to keep it below 150W! :eek:

yep as far as I knew, the 1.8ghz dual core would be 95W

jjcom

I asked Intel to take a look and let me know if this is a real chip.

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

I asked Intel to take a look and let me know if this is a real chip.

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how about my quad-core chip i posted? (last post, first page) ;)

"i sware its teh reel!!1! omg i gots madd clokzorzz on itt!1"