TCCD 2-2-2-5 @ 255mhz @ 3.3v

"Curious to see how high the memory would go with more extreme voltages, I set the memory voltage to 3.3V... With the memory running at 50+ degrees Celsius, we were able to hit 255 MHz with memory timings of 2-2-2-5!"
:confused:
This quotation is taken from the PCSTATS Mushkin PC3200 LII V2 Memory Review found in the link below.
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.c...id=1668&page=2

Correct me if I'm wrong, I know that TCCD chips don't like high voltages. Infact, they become instable.

So if good cooling is applied on the TCCD's, it will run as high as some bh-5/6 with tight timings (2-2-2-5 stable) on high voltages.

That is crazy, I would like to see confirmation of this.

The reviewer probably got sent the older Mushkin Level II BH-5 memory packaged in the new V2 version heatspreader.

Did Mushkin do this on purpose nooo... of course not :rolleyes:

I have yet to see anyone get better oc out of the samsung TCCD at 3.0+v,can anyone confirm this ?

That revision 2 sticker looks like they just slapped it on, probably revision 1.

That's how Mushkin stickers always look. :rolleyes:

I'm skeptical of the results as well, but I doubt that those are actually BH-5 sticks.

well i know the guy who did that review from local forums and he is defiently a seasoned reviewer. i dont think for a second he would post false results. most likely a error. but for some reason i cant view the site anymore. maybe ill shoot him a email.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nanobot

The reviewer probably got sent the older Mushkin Level II BH-5 memory packaged in the new V2 version heatspreader.

Did Mushkin do this on purpose nooo... of course not :rolleyes:

I have yet to see anyone get better oc out of the samsung TCCD at 3.0+v,can anyone confirm this ?

---

It's not just the mushkins. They also did that with GeIL's Ultra-X PC3200 @ 257fsb @ 3.4. So it's very unlikley that they are mislabled. link below:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.c...id=1653&page=2

well here's a stick of the old stuff:

http://img94.exs.cx/img94/4255/ML2bh5.jpg

and here's the new stuff:

http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages...2V2L2_full.jpg

i don't know if that helps at all...

edit:

here's another image of the V2

http://hi-techreviews.com/nuke/mushkin/2.gif

so it looks likes pictures w/o heatspreaders would be needed.

Please. Can anybody with a TCCD and a Vdimm-mod/ddrbooster try it?
It's a serious matter. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHiRaKaWa

Please. Can anybody with a TCCD and a Vdimm-mod/ddrbooster try it?
It's a serious matter. :(

---

i cranked 3.2v through mine and nothing changed.

I would try this if my psu wasn't already being so stressed. Going to have to wait untill my new one gets here.

TCCD does NOT like voltages above 3v erm it don't change a thing

True, causes instability though...

It would be interesting to see how they perform with 2.5-7-3-3
BH5 won't clock any higher, but I guess TCCD would.

I have tried mine an 3.5 volt took them to 232 Superpistable at 2-2-2-5
Impossible to go higher with mine.
2.9 volt makes them max out ~220
So..i dont know =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ubermann

I have tried mine an 3.5 volt took them to 232 Superpistable at 2-2-2-5
Impossible to go higher with mine.
2.9 volt makes them max out ~220
So..i dont know =)

---

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So it does like high voltages :D

where can i get the ozC DDR memory booster?

http://www.svc.com/ocz-pack.html



http://www.svc.com/oczddrvboost.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kanavit

where can i get the ozC DDR memory booster?

---

Gonna run 3.6 through your mem ;)

Hello XS, it's been a long time. ;)

Anyway this is Colin from PCStats, I hope to clear up a few things. Haha perhaps I have some special memory in any case the memory works pretty well on my modded IC7-MAX3 mobo. ;)

If there are some more tests you'd like me to run to verify I don't mind, just e-mail them to me at colin.sun@pcstats.com but make sure you fill your subject line well, I get over 1k spam e-mails a day. :(

Damn CPU-Z no longer tells you the DIMM's but here are a few screen shots @ 255 MHz with 2-2-2-5 timings at 3.2V.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/csmo/PCSt...n/CPU-Z_OC.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/csmo/PCSt.../Sandra_OC.jpg

Unlike other manufacturers, Mushkin does not place a voltage limiter on their memory, running 3V+ through other manufacturers using the same DRAM is useless since the DRAM doesn't get these volts.

I haven't been in the enthusiast game for the last year but those who know me know that I'm 100% legit. Hehe perhaps I should start coming back to XS on a more regular basis, anyway if there's something else you'd like me to try by all means e-mail me. Running Prime95 right now and will post tomorrow if necessary.

Colin

nice to see you here colin. ;) thats very nice. those sticks you got are pretty much bh-5 killers. wonder what they could do if you used the same volts and loosened the timmings.

Hey there WSP. :)

Honestly I've lost my taste for speed, playing more with my car. Sorry guys I just noticed the tests I ran above are with timings of 2-2-2-6. Pretty much the same thing but thought I should point that out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin

Hey there WSP. :)

Honestly I've lost my taste for speed, playing more with my car. Sorry guys I just noticed the tests I ran above are with timings of 2-2-2-6. Pretty much the same thing but thought I should point that out.

---

so you just like a different kind of speed now eh? wish i had a car like yours to work on.

seems tccd does like volts.

Can you bench the V2 at 255mhz 2,2,2,6 1t and then bench them @ 2.5,?,?,? 1t at say 280mhz?

I'm just wondering if the Mushkin V2 will surpass the Gskill or OCZ rev.2 plat tccd ram(brainpower pcb), because of the V2's capability of using more voltage?

:D :D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin

Hello XS, it's been a long time. ;)

Anyway this is Colin from PCStats, I hope to clear up a few things. Haha perhaps I have some special memory in any case the memory works pretty well on my modded IC7-MAX3 mobo. ;)

If there are some more tests you'd like me to run to verify I don't mind, just e-mail them to me at colin.sun@pcstats.com but make sure you fill your subject line well, I get over 1k spam e-mails a day. :(

Damn CPU-Z no longer tells you the DIMM's but here are a few screen shots @ 255 MHz with 2-2-2-5 timings at 3.2V.

-snip-

-/snip-

Unlike other manufacturers, Mushkin does not place a voltage limiter on their memory, running 3V+ through other manufacturers using the same DRAM is useless since the DRAM doesn't get these volts.

I haven't been in the enthusiast game for the last year but those who know me know that I'm 100% legit. Hehe perhaps I should start coming back to XS on a more regular basis, anyway if there's something else you'd like me to try by all means e-mail me. Running Prime95 right now and will post tomorrow if necessary.

Colin

---

Dont you think the extra voltage getting stopped somewhere before being "allowed" to enter the ram would generate an excessive amount of heat, Colin? Ram, having a high current nature, would generate the heat excessively fast, too.. :stick:

I'm going to poke around some, but to the best of my knowledge putting "voltage" limiters on ram would be purely suicidal on part of the ram manufacturers.

EDIT

images snipped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin

I haven't been in the enthusiast game for the last year but those who know me know that I'm 100% legit.

---

I dont think your honesty was at stake here,PCStats reviews have been accurate in the past,we are just questioning some unusually high FSB + tight timing results @3.0v+ .TCCD IC's usually dont respond well to vdimm above that voltage.

The Mushkin's V2's ability to get improvement at higher voltage seems unique.Anyone think it might have to do with their special "Black" PCB ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STEvil

Dont you think the extra voltage getting stopped somewhere before being "allowed" to enter the ram would generate an excessive amount of heat, Colin? Ram, having a high current nature, would generate the heat excessively fast, too.. :stick:

I'm going to poke around some, but to the best of my knowledge putting "voltage" limiters on ram would be purely suicidal on part of the ram manufacturers.

EDIT

images snipped.

---

Hey there STEvil.

On the memory with limiters, I guess it's pass through a resistor to lower voltage first before it reaches the DRAM. You're right two manufactuers I know say that using more than 2.8V simply generates more heat.

There is no voltage limiter on the Mushkin memory but it did generate a ton of heat, I had to point a 120mm fan in its direction (from the 5 1/4" bays on my Enlight case) to keep things stable. Temperatures according to my Fluke 54-II was around 55 which is pretty hot IMHO.

By all means check things out hopefully that will clear some things up. :)

Nanobot I was quite happy with my results but am curious at why others cannot reproduce them. :( Hopefully we can all find out what's going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin

Hello XS, it's been a long time. ;)

Anyway this is Colin from PCStats, I hope to clear up a few things. Haha perhaps I have some special memory in any case the memory works pretty well on my modded IC7-MAX3 mobo. ;)

If there are some more tests you'd like me to run to verify I don't mind, just e-mail them to me at colin.sun@pcstats.com but make sure you fill your subject line well, I get over 1k spam e-mails a day. :(

Damn CPU-Z no longer tells you the DIMM's but here are a few screen shots @ 255 MHz with 2-2-2-5 timings at 3.2V.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/csmo/PCSt...n/CPU-Z_OC.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/csmo/PCSt.../Sandra_OC.jpg

Unlike other manufacturers, Mushkin does not place a voltage limiter on their memory, running 3V+ through other manufacturers using the same DRAM is useless since the DRAM doesn't get these volts.

I haven't been in the enthusiast game for the last year but those who know me know that I'm 100% legit. Hehe perhaps I should start coming back to XS on a more regular basis, anyway if there's something else you'd like me to try by all means e-mail me. Running Prime95 right now and will post tomorrow if necessary.

Colin

---

Then it is true
It is not a mistake
Thank god.
All what's needed now is another guy with mushkins l2 V2 to test them and off to mushkins.

I have never seen tccd do anything beter with high voltages , amazing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHiRaKaWa

All what's needed now is another guy with mushkins l2 V2 to test them and off to mushkins.

---

Agreed! Retail stick results would end the uncertainty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryanpgroovy

I have never seen tccd do anything beter with high voltages , amazing

---

Ryan, the Mushkin rep I spoke to told me that they were actually able to hit 300 MHz with slightly looser timings. I found that a bit hard to believe myself but my motherboard doesn't seem to be able to hit those type of speeds so I can't verify... I'm sure you have more resources available, perhaps you should try it out.

Actually on that note my motherboard seems to max out around 260ish with tight timings, no matter what voltage (up to 3.7V) I use BH-5 and whatever else I have . :(

hmmm.... if these are special sticks then you could always sendem my way when your done with them and i could do some testing. :p:

i havent seen many reviews of the mushkin V2. and many of the ones ive seen it seems like the reviewers was talking from his ass. could it be the speed bin the chips extremely well? yeah i would like to see someone with some retail sticks try it out.

TCCD usually tops out at v2.9. Anything higher really doesn't do much. But that is awesome there.

Unlike other manufacturers, Mushkin does not place a voltage limiter on their memory, running 3V+ through other manufacturers using the same DRAM is useless since the DRAM doesn't get these volts.

Colin
Does the Geil's Ultra-X 3200 have any voltage limiter?
You did the same with them, right?

maybe theres a mod to bypass the voltage limiter. Pop the resistor and sodder a wire.

Hey Ryangroovie, you the man at OCZ right? Do you guys put voltage limiters on your ram?

yup the voltage limiter thing could very well be it. i just sifted thru a bunch of mushkin V2 reviews and none of the ones if seen except colins tried feeding them the volts instead of loosening timmings. most stayed under 2.8v. and could it be why most tccd doesnt do better after 2.9v is because its not even getting a voltage increase but instead a resistor is stopping it and thus causing more heat and more instability?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SHiRaKaWa

Unlike other manufacturers, Mushkin does not place a voltage limiter on their memory, running 3V+ through other manufacturers using the same DRAM is useless since the DRAM doesn't get these volts.

Colin
Does the Geil's Ultra-X 3200 have any voltage limiter?
You did the same with them, right?

---

Seeing as how GeIL like everyone else has new low latency PC3200 memory it wouldn't surprise me if they're using the Samsung memory. As to whether they have the voltage limiter, I am not sure but I will check and post tomorrow.

Man I wish I had a better motherboard... I have four sets of memory that all top out between 250-260 with 2-2-2-5 timings, would probably do better in the hands of the better overclockers... :(

I have four sets of memory that all top out between 250-260 with 2-2-2-5 timings, :slobber:

I wish I was a reviewer :mad:

Do you have access to a NF3 system? TCCD seems to have good results with the NF3 chipset.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin

Seeing as how GeIL like everyone else has new low latency PC3200 memory it wouldn't surprise me if they're using the Samsung memory. As to whether they have the voltage limiter, I am not sure but I will check and post tomorrow.

Man I wish I had a better motherboard... I have four sets of memory that all top out between 250-260 with 2-2-2-5 timings, would probably do better in the hands of the better overclockers... :(

---

*colin remembers something......... RJ.....dfi UT.......avid sending him mobile......lives 45mins away.......* LOL

but yeah im really starting to think it has to do with a memory voltage regulator. in your XL review it says a corsair rep said that there ram indeed has one. and that is the TCCD you werent able to get higher than 220fsb without loosening up the timmings.


here is what ive found about TCCD. seems like alot of google crap i dont understand, but one thing did catch my eye and it was a reference about "regular ddr chips", "mobile ddr chips", and "low power" ddr. not sure if that means there is low power tccd chips and thats what mushkin could be using. someone needs to decipher the info more.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...ddrsd64.vs_vcs

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...=System+Memory

Just ordered mine. Thanks, I was just about to order the Gskill 4400 then I read this! I'll keep you guys informed! With the DFI LP Ut and the ocz powerstream, I have plenty of juice available to crank up the 3.3 line! I can't wait!

some more info to help decode some product stepping. not sure how usefull this is.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...o/DDR_code.pdf

EDIT: some more really giberish stuff. mentions slew rates. hopefully someone can put this stuff to use.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...k4h56xx38f.ibs

EDIT: this is what i got when searching for the first part of the poruduct code. no mention of tccd. it does mention tccc and tcc4

also good news. says max voltage is 3.6v

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

some more info to help decode some product stepping. not sure how usefull this is.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...o/DDR_code.pdf

EDIT: some more really giberish stuff. mentions slew rates. hopefully someone can put this stuff to use.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...k4h56xx38f.ibs

EDIT: this is what i got when searching for the first part of the poruduct code. no mention of tccd. it does mention tccc and tcc4

also good news. says max voltage is 3.6v

---

.ibs I can't open that. What file extension is that? Thanks for the post. So does this mean the BLK lev2 ver2 isn't TCCD afterall?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trans am

.ibs I can't open that. What file extension is that? Thanks for the post. So does this mean the BLK lev2 ver2 isn't TCCD afterall?

---

no its tccd. ive found other chips revs. hard finding info on the tccd. lots of tcc4 tccc references. still looking though. im sure someone can make alot more sense with this info than I.

it seem the "cd" suffix ending isnt listed. part number is K4H560838F-tccd. but references are to K4H560838F-TCxx. very confusing.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semi...K4H560838F.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

no its tccd. ive found other chips revs. hard finding info on the tccd. lots of tcc4 tccc references. still looking though. im sure someone can make alot more sense with this info than I.

---

Cool. Dude that avatar is hillarious! I see I'm not the only one with a sense of humor!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trans am

Cool. Dude that avatar is hillarious! I see I'm not the only one with a sense of humor!

---

uh? how is my avatar funny? im lost now. :p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

uh? how is my avatar funny? im lost now. :p:

---

Oh dude, I'm sorry. You're serious?

You've got me confused too now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STEvil

You've got me confused too now.

---

Nevermind. I thought the avatar was a little ridiculous with the flash animation and the whole "west side" thing. Sorry about that.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trans am

Oh dude, I'm sorry. You're serious?

---

what do you mean? has it changed to the picture a chick with hairy nipples again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

what do you mean? has it changed to the picture a chick with hairy nipples again?

---

It depends on if that dude is really a chick and if he/she has hairy nipples under that jacket.

colin, what happened to your board in your sig? you have no board that can go higher than 260fsb? :stick:

its easy, just set it to 3-4-4-8, if it boots its not bh5, bh5 wont work at cas3...

and to be 110% sure you can check how high it overclocks with 2.7v and 2.5-4-4

bh5 wont oc very high with only 2.7v, no matter what timings.

and to be 1000% sure you should take off the heatspreaders.


tbh im kinda confused as to why you havent checked this to make sure that its tccd :confused: and what does your mushkin contact person say? is it tccd or bh5/bh6?

Quote:

---

In the end the memory was able to do a respectable 226 MHz with 2.8V, while maintaining 2-2-2-5 timings. Loosening those timings to 2.5-3-3-6 allowed us to push the motherboard to 232 MHz.

---

sorry to bring this to you guys who ordered this stuff already, but this mushkin memory is very likely NOT tccd!

tccd will never max out at 230mhz with 2.8v and 2.5-3-3 timings... the best tccd ive seen was able to hit 300mhz with 2.5-3-3 timings and 2.8v and the worst probably around 260 or 270!

colin, seriously, you should have known better...

if your an expirienced reviewer you should have realized that this is most likely not tccd memory but bh5/bh6 memory or micron memory.


ok, now there are two possibilities:

this is a stick of bh5/bh6 wich means mushkin tried to fool people to buy their new memory wich is NOT bh5/bh6 :slapass:

or: (rather probably) this memory is based on new micron chips, the same that the crucial ballistix uses, OR some other memory... but i dont know of any other memory than runs 2-2-2 to that speeds.

the highest crucial ballistix ive seen was around 240 2-2-2, so maybe this was a "engineering sample" stick with the latest and greatest micron chips that hit 255mhz with enough vdimm...

but its 99% sure that this is not tccd... unless its some new wonder stepping samsung just released that runs better with low latencies but doesnt scale with cas 2.5 anymore... :D

please report your retail results everybody!

this is a very weird move from mushkin, as their original level2 v2 was tccd memory... and now they dont change the revision name but give their sticks new memory chips? kinda confusing imo...

colin, can you please take the heatspreaders off or make a pic or take a peek and tell us whether the sticks use micron ic's?

if not then its probably bh5/bh6 and muskin did something really really stupid by relabeling them as level2 vs sticks and sending them to a reviewer.


and ryan, do ocz sticks use some sort of overvolt protection?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

sorry to bring this to you guys who ordered this stuff already, but this mushkin memory is very likely NOT tccd!

tccd will never max out at 230mhz with 2.8v and 2.5-3-3 timings... the best tccd ive seen was able to hit 300mhz with 2.5-3-3 timings and 2.8v and the worst probably around 260 or 270!

colin, seriously, you should have known better...

if your an expirienced reviewer you should have realized that this is most likely not tccd memory but bh5/bh6 memory or micron memory.


ok, now there are two possibilities:

this is a stick of bh5/bh6 wich means mushkin tried to fool people to buy their new memory wich is NOT bh5/bh6 :slapass:

or: (rather probably) this memory is based on new micron chips, the same that the crucial ballistix uses, OR some other memory... but i dont know of any other memory than runs 2-2-2 to that speeds.

the highest crucial ballistix ive seen was around 240 2-2-2, so maybe this was a "engineering sample" stick with the latest and greatest micron chips that hit 255mhz with enough vdimm...

but its 99% sure that this is not tccd... unless its some new wonder stepping samsung just released that runs better with low latencies but doesnt scale with cas 2.5 anymore... :D

please report your retail results everybody!

this is a very weird move from mushkin, as their original level2 v2 was tccd memory... and now they dont change the revision name but give their sticks new memory chips? kinda confusing imo...

colin, can you please take the heatspreaders off or make a pic or take a peek and tell us whether the sticks use micron ic's?

if not then its probably bh5/bh6 and muskin did something really really stupid by relabeling them as level2 vs sticks and sending them to a reviewer.


and ryan, do ocz sticks use some sort of overvolt protection?

---

then how do you explain the TCCD reff number and the volt limiter?

i dont care about some numbers printed on a piece of paper ;)
those numbers can always be wrong, may it be by intention or by accident.
results never lie! period.

and ive not seen any tccd that bmaxes out at 230mhz with 2.5-3-3 timings!
and looking at the 2-2-2 results it should rather be very very good tccd and oc even higher than most tccd sticks with 2.5-3-3 and 2.8v

and what volt limiter?

so let me ask you, what makes you so sure that it IS tccd?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trans am

That is a good point, most tccd at 2.5-3-3 will do at least 260mhz. But will BH5 do that speed(226) with only 2.8v? I can give mine 3.6v at 2-2-2-6 1T and it craps out at 235mhz. 2x512 mushkin Bk lev2

as for the volt limiter, he was saying that Mushkin and geil don't have volt limiters on their tccd.

---

That is a good point, most tccd at 2.5-3-3 will do at least 260mhz. But will BH5 do that speed(226) with only 2.8v? I can give mine 3.6v at 2-2-2-6 1T and it craps out at 235mhz. 2x512 mushkin Bk lev2

as for the volt limiter, he was saying that Mushkin and geil don't have volt limiters on their tccd.

somebody get to the bottom of this!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

i dont care about some numbers printed on a piece of paper ;)
those numbers can always be wrong, may it be by intention or by accident.
results never lie! period.

and ive not seen any tccd that bmaxes out at 230mhz with 2.5-3-3 timings!
and looking at the 2-2-2 results it should rather be very very good tccd and oc even higher than most tccd sticks with 2.5-3-3 and 2.8v

and what volt limiter?

so let me ask you, what makes you so sure that it IS tccd?

---

uh... have you been going nuts lately saaya? thats alot of conspiracy theroies there.

its mushkin V2. why would mushkin purposfly send out bh-5 in place of tccd? it doesnt make any sense as most reviewers dont have the balls to give tccd anything over 2.9v so it just doesnt make sense. and corsair has admitted the have a voltage regulator on there XL and im sure ocz does as well. but mushkin doesnt. so when you raise the voltage the chips are actually recieving it. when there is a voltage limiter the extra volts are turned into heat before the volts reach the chips.

and no its not micron. the ballistix line uses the same chips as EB does except a different rev. thats why EB was discontinued because micron didnt keep selling them to ocz because they realized the potenial. so why would they turn around and sell these to mushkin? why sell good ram chips to a competitor if you dont have to? it doesnt make any sense.

and why would mushkin send micron based ram(if they in fact did have any) and say it was tccd knowing how many reviewrs remove the heatspreaders?

one thing your whole theory doesnt explain saaya is how he got the same results with pqi tccd?

but if colin thinks its a good idea i could try the ram or someone else or something. you guys dont seem to trust him. i do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

uh... have you been going nuts lately saaya? thats alot of conspiracy theroies there.

its mushkin V2. why would mushkin purposfly send out bh-5 in place of tccd? it doesnt make any sense as most reviewers dont have the balls to give tccd anything over 2.9v so it just doesnt make sense. and corsair has admitted the have a voltage regulator on there XL and im sure ocz does as well. but mushkin doesnt. so when you raise the voltage the chips are actually recieving it. when there is a voltage limiter the extra volts are turned into heat before the volts reach the chips.

and no its not micron. the ballistix line uses the same chips as EB does except a different rev. thats why EB was discontinued because micron didnt keep selling them to ocz because they realized the potenial. so why would they turn around and sell these to mushkin? why sell good ram chips to a competitor if you dont have to? it doesnt make any sense.

and why would mushkin send micron based ram(if they in fact did have any) and say it was tccd knowing how many reviewrs remove the heatspreaders?

one thing your whole theory doesnt explain saaya is how he got the same results with pqi tccd?

but if colin thinks its a good idea i could try the ram or someone else or something. you guys dont seem to trust him. i do.

---

I trust Colin too, but what about the ram only going to 2.5-3-3 at only 232mhz? That's the part that doesn't add up. TCCD will do at least 250-260mhz at those timings.

Notice the athlon test was done on a board that doesn't even have working agp/pci locks! WTF?

PCStats Test System Specs:
System 1 System 2
Processor:

AMD Athlon64 3200+


Intel Pentium 4 2.4C
Clock Speed:

10 x 200 MHz = 2 GHz

9 x 227 MHz = 2.04 GHz


12 x 200 MHz = 2.4 GHz

12 x 240 MHz = 2.88 GHz
Motherboards:

Asus K8V DLX, K8T800


ABIT IC7-MAX3, i875P
Videocard:

Asus Radeon 9800XT


ATi Radeon 9800XT
Memory:

2x 512MB Corsair TwinX3200XL PRO
2x 512MB OCZ PC3200 Platinum Limited Ed.
2x 512MB Mushkin PC3200 LII V2
Hard Drive: 40GB WD Special Ed 20GB WD HDD
CDROM: MSI X48 CD-RW/DVD-ROM NEC 52x CD-ROM
PowerSupply: Vantec Stealth 470W PC Power & Cooling 510W
Software Setup

WindowsXP Build 2600
VIA 4in1 4.51V
Catalyst 4.8


WindowsXP Build 2600
Intel INF 5.02.1012
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maybe the tccd is the mobile or low power version thats referenced in the links i posted?

i remember when corsairs XL first came out. anything over 250 was looking very good. Unless it was TCCC and not TCCD on release some of them wouldnt even do 250mhz however i dont think ive every seen anything lower than 240.

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Originally Posted by Mongoose420

i remember when corsairs XL first came out. anything over 250 was looking very good. Unless it was TCCC and not TCCD on release some of them wouldnt even do 250mhz however i dont think ive every seen anything lower than 240.

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I just sent an email to Mushkin directly and posted this thread and a link to the PC stats review. Hopefully they'll come out and make a statement.

yeah i shot him a email to see if he is going to rip theose HS off.

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

yeah i shot him a email to see if he is going to rip theose HS off.

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Yeah, Colin rip those hs off so we will end this madness!

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

uh... have you been going nuts lately saaya? thats alot of conspiracy theroies there.

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lately? a lot of conspiracy theories? what else are you talking of?

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

its mushkin V2. why would mushkin purposfly send out bh-5 in place of tccd?.

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Originally Posted by saaya

...this is a stick of bh5/bh6 wich means mushkin tried to fool people to buy their new memory wich is NOT bh5/bh6 :slapass:

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

it doesnt make any sense as most reviewers dont have the balls to give tccd anything over 2.9v so it just doesnt make sense.

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to me it makes more sence than tccd running at 255mhz with 2-2-2and only 230mhz 2.5-3-3 with 2.8v

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

and corsair has admitted the have a voltage regulator on there XL and im sure ocz does as well. but mushkin doesnt. so when you raise the voltage the chips are actually recieving it. when there is a voltage limiter the extra volts are turned into heat before the volts reach the chips.

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why dont they clock to 260mhz with 2.5-3-3 timings and 2.8v then?

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

and no its not micron. the ballistix line uses the same chips as EB does except a different rev.

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i know...

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

and why would mushkin send micron based ram(if they in fact did have any) and say it was tccd knowing how many reviewrs remove the heatspreaders?

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maybe to fool people to buy their new memory? or it was just a misunderstanding... no matter what two of this was true, im sure we will hear it was the latter :D

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

one thing your whole theory doesnt explain saaya is how he got the same results with pqi tccd?

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so? tccd scores very well with 2-2-2 latencies, as good as bh5 afaik, so that doesnt prove anything at all. you cant say what ic's a stick uses just from looking at the sandra scores...

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

but if colin thinks its a good idea i could try the ram or someone else or something. you guys dont seem to trust him. i do.

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who said i dont trust him?
i just think it was a bad idear to post this article that def makes many people buy the new muskin memory if he doesnt even know if this is retail memory.
the retail memory uses tccd, this stick performs like its very very likely NOT tccd, and playing with it he should have easily found out abou that.

i think it was not very smart to post an article like this as it will probably hurt his credibility if it turns out it wasnt tccd memory. im sure mayn people will be not very amused finding their tccd mushkin crapping out at around 220-230mhz instead of the 255 he reached with that "tccd" memory.

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

yeah i shot him a email to see if he is going to rip theose HS off.

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heheh sent him the same email 5 mins ago :D

the whole thing sounds fishy to me. It's really the part about the ram not going past 232mhz at 2.5-3-3. That part really makes no sense. I will deff. take the heatspreaders off when it comes and post some pics. It should be here early next week. Did this ram just come out? There must be someone on this forum who has the retail sticks.

well i hope for my sake these are tccd which i believe them to be. then they will be selling like hot cakes. this could be make or break for mushkins new mem.

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Originally Posted by trans am

the whole thing sounds fishy to me. It's really the part about the ram not going past 232mhz at 2.5-3-3. That part really makes no sense. I will deff. take the heatspreaders off when it comes and post some pics. It should be here early next week.

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even if it doesnt, you still got some nice tccd either way. :banana:

no, this muskin level2 v2 stuff is out for some weeks already, and the sticks i heard about were just plain tccd sticks and didnt perform any better than other sticks, but that was just in 2 reviews i saw...

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

even if it doesnt, you still got some nice tccd either way. :banana:

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thanks for the reassurance. I really wanted the best TCCD money could buy. I was looking at all the TCCD that had the Brainpower pcbs. I was about to order the Gskill 4400 2.5-3-3-7 when I saw this thread. I hope I did the right thing. It was a hasty move and through my experience Haste=waste. I hope this doesn't prove that in this case.

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=346393

hmmmmmmmmm this one is def tccd... performs just like any decent tccd memory...

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Originally Posted by saaya

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=346393

hmmmmmmmmm this one is def tccd... performs just like any decent tccd memory...

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im thinking it like this. it was crappy tccd that wouldnt be stable at 2.5-3-3 like ive heard from others with crap tccd. but when he forced the volts to it since it has no volt regulator like other ram the tccd got a full dose of 3.4vdimm and shot up.

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Originally Posted by saaya

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=346393

hmmmmmmmmm this one is def tccd... performs just like any decent tccd memory...

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http://www.nascar.eclipse.co.uk/mushkin246.jpg

HHMMMMMMMMMM?

nah dude, your hoping for that ;)
you want it to be great stuff, but i doubt it is really that great... looking at all the different tccd stuff there is really no difference... they all perform almost the same...

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.p...3&page=3&pp=15

look on page 3, a guy posted a screenshot of his memory doing 246mhz 2-2-2, but im sure his is with bh5.


i really hope your right actually, and this memory is for real! :D

but if not, SHAME ON MUSHKIN! for this... "misunderstanding" :stick:

nobody though has pushed high unregulated vdimm thru tccd before so we dont know how it acts.

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Originally Posted by saaya

nah dude, your hoping for that ;)
you want it to be great stuff, but i doubt it is really that great... looking at all the different tccd stuff there is really no difference... they all perform almost the same...

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.p...3&page=3&pp=15

look on page 3, a guy posted a screenshot of his memory doing 246mhz 2-2-2, but im sure his is with bh5.


i really hope your right actually, and this memory is for real! :D

but if not, SHAME ON MUSHKIN! for this... "misunderstanding" :stick:

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Yeah, that was the same screenshot I posted the link to. I just love seeing any 2x512 go higher at 2-2-2 235mhz 1T than my BH5. I just hope it all works out. :)

I can't believe dudes were paying upwards of $330 for this ram. It seems like a steal at $291 now.

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

nobody though has pushed high unregulated vdimm thru tccd before so we dont know how it acts.

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im sure the memory companies have done that in their labs when they tested single ic's!

and ryan said he never saw tccd even get close to that, imo that measn a lot! i really dont think this stuff is for real... i hope it is, it would be great! but then again... it would be too good to be true, and this 2.5-3-3 result is just totally wrong... theres def something up to it... even if its not bh5/bh6 its def no normal tccd!

let us know transam...but i really doubt this is real....

TCCD tops 220-225 2-2-2-2-5/11 ....

One more vote to pop the sinks!

Either we got some serious potential, or Mushkin has got something to explain.

If I would bet, I would bet on BH5. (Even though my Mushkin BH5 only do 250MHz with 3.4vdimm)

People READ.

I thought I said before that it is not the mushkins only that ran over 250fsb on 3.0+v with 2225 timings. Colin did the same thing with Geil Ultra-X 3200. He said in his (Geil Ultra-X 3200 review):
"and just for curiosity we increased the voltage all the way up to 3.4V to achieve a very nice 257 MHz with 2-2-2-5 timings!"
This is the link to his review.
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.c...id=1653&page=2

Ohh yes, almost forgot. In the mushkins' review he removed the heatspreaders and confirmed that it was TCCD.
Here is the quote " PCstats removed the heatspreader on the Mushkin PC3200 LII V2 for a closer look at the DRAM. Below, we found that the PC3200 LII V2 is using Samsung K4H560838F-TCCD DRAM."
and here is the link:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1668
Written under the (Under the Armor) heading.
And last but not least. Ubermann said at the beginning of this thread:
"I have tried mine an 3.5 volt took them to 232 Superpistable at 2-2-2-5"

Summary:
The mushkins he reviewed were definitely TCCDs.
Geil Ultra-X is was also capable of doing that.

This is interesting for sure!
I've got some used Mushkin V2 RAM I can buy here, maybe I should try them out. :cool:

Just pop off the heatspreader, take a pic and get things settled?
No way this can be tccd - not at cas2

My Geil 2x512 UltraX tops at 230 with 2-2-2-11 @2.91v

So looks there's something here to look upon.

Colin how come your never on ICQ anymore?

do gskills have such a limiter or not?

i think what stevevil was pointing out was, unlike just general heat increase from higher voltages running through the IC's- having an actual voltage limiter on board means there would have to be circuitry to regulate the voltage, IE when you use voltage from psu whack it through mosfets generate a shedload of heat and have the voltage you want afterwards. OR ocz booster with 5v leveled off to whatever voltage you want and lots of heat coming out in the process. OK so most boards can only give 2.9v and with mods up to 3.3v, the difference is less but surely a limiting circuit would also take up space and generate a lot more heat than usual. it doesn't make much sense and is likely to be impossible.

Ryan, i take it ocz don't have a limiting circuit?

Either way, don't quite a few people have the geil mem, shouldn't some of them have noticed better clocks at higher voltages?

Steve, nice to see you dude. :)

I haven't been on ICQ becuase I'm not much of a computer geek anymore... This year I've been playing a ton of airsoft (and getting good excercise) as well as tweaking my RSX. :)

The mushkin memory uses TCCD, yes I did remove the heatspreaders. I'll post a pic of the DRAM later tonight when I get home.

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Originally Posted by Colin

Steve, nice to see you dude. :)

I haven't been on ICQ becuase I'm not much of a computer geek anymore... This year I've been playing a ton of airsoft (and getting good excercise) as well as tweaking my RSX. :)

The mushkin memory uses TCCD, yes I did remove the heatspreaders. I'll post a pic of the DRAM later tonight when I get home.

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Colin why did the ram only go to 232mhz at 2.5-3-3 timings? Any ideas? if it was TCCD it should go at least 250mhz at those timings.

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Originally Posted by trans am

Colin why did the ram only go to 232mhz at 2.5-3-3 timings? Any ideas? if it was TCCD it should go at least 250mhz at those timings.

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Uh oh, this one is probably more due to impatience than anythign else. Personally I'm a low latency whore, I'd prefer to run my memory at their tightest than loose at higher speeds.

You guys are absolutely right 232 MHz does seem a bit on the "low" side but I'll be honest, I don't try very hard when I have to use those types of timings. I simply stopped raising the clock speeds once a few anomalies pop up.

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Originally Posted by Colin

Uh oh, this one is probably more due to impatience than anythign else. Personally I'm a low latency whore, I'd prefer to run my memory at their tightest than loose at higher speeds.

You guys are absolutely right 232 MHz does seem a bit on the "low" side but I'll be honest, I don't try very hard when I have to use those types of timings. I simply stopped raising the clock speeds once a few anomalies pop up.

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:slobber: ok, now i got to get me some of that ram.

and drunkenmaster READ! why would you doubt a voltage limiter when several manufactuers admit to having one?

so its real? i cant believe it! :o

everybody so far told us that tccd does not oc any higher with more vdimm or even becomes unstable above 3v, and now there are tccd sticks that do scale with extra vdimm and oc to 250+ with 2-2-2 timings... this makes tccd THE ultimate memory!

ddr500 with 2-2-2 ddr600 with 2.5-3-3 and almost ddr700 with 3-4-48- :slobber:

Besides it seems that the most pimped makes here; OCZ and G-skill both have regulators, invalidating them as a TCCD choise if you want tight!

Guys, we have not come to any conclusions yet.

I will be in contact with my Mushkin rep today (left a voice mail already) and I will ask them to respond directly to your questions. Honestly after looking at things closely it's very possible that my memory might be a one off but it is a bit early to say.

Please let's keep this thread constructive without accusations, it makes the discussion easier.

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Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

:slobber: ok, now i got to get me some of that ram.

and drunkenmaster READ! why would you doubt a voltage limiter when several manufactuers admit to having one?

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Errm i could read, just re read, what manufacturers have claimed to have limiters exactly? i checked all the links, can't with a brief flick find any proof of manufacturers admiting that at all. Hence why i asked.

Also Colin suggested maybe there is just a pass through resistor that changes voltage. THats not how voltage works, it has to be able to deal with variable input voltages and deal with excess heat, we see this kind of circuitry on mobo's gfx cards, ocz booster, does it look like any of that would fit on a pcb for memory? no, doesn't seem that way to me either. I was pointing out i can't see that there is any space on a memory pcb with normal sized chips/pcb's to fit any more stuff let alone voltage circuits.

You're right colin. This would be the best memory ever though.

oen other thing, similar voltages he threw into those dimms will get you same timings on bh-5, wasn't tccd's only advantage that at the lower timings and up at 2.5,3,3,7/8 it could do 300Mhz and surpass performance at lower timings lower fsb?
Either way, i've got some pqi on order, hopefully coming tomorrow but probo not being sent out till monday/ Mushkin as for last 18 months is very expensive for same thing, corsairs just corsair not even a option. OCZ's outta stock everywhere and not much else is available in the uk. :(

PS, theres a lot of stuff thats not very accurate in your reviews, the latency vs fsb thing is very much a grey area, it used to be 20-30Mhz more vs lower latencys, now its 40-50Mhz, sometimes more and not as much higher latencys and quite a few benchmarks/apps show better performance at higher latencies and much higher fsb's.

Also i very much disagree with the much heard theory that timings matter less on any specific platform. Its just wrong, lower timings or higher fsb's are both very much a performance issue on all platforms. running cas 2.5,3,3,7 at same speeds will cause a decent performance loss on any platform, i can't understand why the performance loss would matter less on a P4 than a ath 64, that makes zero sense.

IF you would argue anything its that the p4 is already a high latency memory subsystem due to talking through a chipset that every extra latency penalty makes every other subsystem wait even longer which is even worse than on a system thats much lower latency in the first place.

EDIT:- ps if ocz or gskill have said they have limiter in another thead, with details please link, not got time to read every thread.

Looking foward to the IC pics :)

Man.... please... somebody buy them and be brave enough to give them 3.4v.

The voltage limit on TCCD would typicaly be set inside the chip .... unless there was a recent die revision that changed that ... those type of voltage limiting are used to limit the power consumption on the chip.

Not to be confused with OCZ EVP , which is a way to allow higher voltages to run more safely and is implemented on module .

Thanks for clearing that up ryan. We need those pics with the heat spreaders off.