BH-5 vs TCCD for A64 754 rig

Hi guys. Long-time reader, first-time poster on your hands :P

I've recently built an A64 rig, with a 3200 nc cg and the dfi board. (Getting the 3400 ch cg!)

I have a pair of 512 bh-5 sticks, and right now they're currently running 2-2-2-5@ddr484 memtest stable @3.2v

I've been reading recently about how great TCCD is, and I was wondering, by the time I grab my OCZ 520 psu and tweak the pot to ~3.6, would the bandwidth for my bh-5 sticks be as good or comparable to the TCCD sticks? From what I've read, bh-5 has a linear gain in terms of mhz, and I should apparently be expecting 5mhz for every .1v from 3.2. So would bh-5 running at 2-2-2-5@ddr528 be better then the new TCCD? Or should I try to get rid of my bh-5 and grab some of that.

si-sandra scores would be nice, or just any suggestions in general

TIA :)

From everything i've been reading on the forums here i think the new sticks (ocz 3200el rev 2, g.skill) hit 280-300+ while the most i've seen someone run bh-5 2-2-2-5 is around 240-260'ish. I'm not sure how high some ppl get it with some more relaxed settings thou. I have a few sticks of bh-5 and i'm ordering some g.skill atm and i'll have to post up what i get with both brands when i can do some benching.

10mhz/.1v is more common.

my bh-6 ran 270+ @ 3.65-3.7v though i've never had a system to fully test them past 270..

240-260 should be easy for bh-5 at 3.2 (240) to 3.5v (260).

I think, he wanted to know how much fsb TCCD with 2.5-3-3-7 would need to overtake BH-5 2-2-2 in performance on an otherwise similar A64 system.

I posted a similar question on dfi-street.com, at least yesterday got one answer where TCCD 285fsb 2.5-3-3-7 overtook BH-5 252fsb 2-2-2 by 400 points in 3dmark2k1 and 1 sec SuperPi (1M?), the video card clocks and cpu speed being held equal.

Of course, more benches to support that would be very welcome ;)

My kingston BH-5 does 278MHz 2-2-2-5 and I think you have to get up pretty high with TCCD to kick it's ass, especially in 3D. But I'm getting curious now so I going to test them and comparing with my A-data 566 TCCD that does ~290 2.5-3-3

For benching BH-5 is the one and only IMO. The benfits of low latencies grow at higher FSB/MEM clocks. BH-5 @ 300 mhz is probably unbeatable with DDR at the moment. For everyday use TCCD or EB seems to be the only wise choise.

I don't think I've ever seen bh-5 @ 300, would sure be one hell of an OC though.

welcome to XtremeSystems :toast: :)

what board is that 240mhz 2-2-2 on? nf2? a64s let the bh5 oc a bit higher usually, 10-20mhz from what ive seen :)

nless you get a cpu with a high multiplier i would suggest you to get the tccd and then lower the multi and raise the fsb with 2.5-3-3 or even lower the multi more and go for 300+ 1:1 with 3-4-4/3-3-3 :slobber:

Thanks for all the input guys. Right now I'm running 244mhz stable, using 2x512 double sidded bh-5. It's at 3.2v, and hmm.. It's still getting more and more mhz (memtest #5 burning), and I'm not so sure where it'll end up, but I think it's approaching it's limit for the voltage.

I'm running the DFI UT3 board saaya, and hmm ... What do you guys think I can hit with both sticks running @3.6v?

yeah im pretty much in the same boat as you i got 2 512mb sticks of bh-5 and the dfi UT coming, ive yet to order my chip. but what about the ocz plats rev2? because if they can get the same or better results with them but with lower volts i would get them. but im not sure what to expect from these chips yet because i just got them and they are 314we.

I've seen a few over 300 mhz, IIRC shamino was the first one.

Remember that TCCD doesn't require insane voltage like BH5 to attain high speeds. 3v at the most.

On Tuesday or Wednesday of next week I can show you guys a single channel 512MB comparison of BH5, GSkill TCCD and OCZ PC4400 EL Gold (Hynix). I'll do highest speed at 2-5-2-2 and 2.5-7-3-3 with Sandra results. Single channel because I only have a single 512 stick of Mushy PC3500 lvl2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gogeta

Remember that TCCD doesn't require insane voltage like BH5 to attain high speeds. 3v at the most.

On Tuesday or Wednesday of next week I can show you guys a single channel 512MB comparison of BH5, GSkill TCCD and OCZ PC4400 EL Gold (Hynix). I'll do highest speed at 2-5-2-2 and 2.5-7-3-3 with Sandra results. Single channel because I only have a single 512 stick of Mushy PC3500 lvl2.

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Sounds good, will look forward to that :)

gogeta, sounds like a good plan

may i request that u post how many more FSB it takes for TCCD @ 2.5-3-3-7 to overcome BH5 @ 2-2-2-X, at the BH5s max, in 3dm01

thanks :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blinky

gogeta, sounds like a good plan

may i request that u post how many more FSB it takes for TCCD @ 2.5-3-3-7 to overcome BH5 @ 2-2-2-X, at the BH5s max, in 3dm01

thanks :D

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NP, will do so on a fresh OS ;)

I haven't been able to give this BH5 any serious voltage yet, so I have no idea what its cieling is. The chips are 340WF. After looking at saaya's database, I'm expecting around 255MHz with 3.4v.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catalan

I don't think I've ever seen bh-5 @ 300, would sure be one hell of an OC though.

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By the great man luihed :D

http://www3.telus.net/luis99/335.JPG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blinky

gogeta, sounds like a good plan

may i request that u post how many more FSB it takes for TCCD @ 2.5-3-3-7 to overcome BH5 @ 2-2-2-X, at the BH5s max, in 3dm01

thanks :D

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4th post in this thread ;)

But more extensive testing is always welcome, so I'm looking forward to Gogeta's results as well. :toast:

i instead i wants to know if for A64 are better 2-2-2-5@5:4 or 3-4-4-7@1:1....

if you are plannin to use 2x512mb of BH-5 or TCCD in your DFI 250gb, it also very much depends on your CPU's on-die memory controller to handle it at high HTT and 1T command rate (not worth using 2T)

As the 754 mobos are single channel, popping in 2 sticks of doubleside 512mb memory may make it difficult to achieve high FSB @ 1T, since many have mentioned that to the computer, those 2 sticks may look like 4 sticks of memory (due to doubleside)

Just got my board a couple of days ago, along with a 3200+ NC (my first ever A64 setup actually :) ).
I only have 512MB BH5 sticks (2 Corsair PC3500 and 2 Kingston PC3500), so no chance on achieving high FSB.
Tried to see how high I could manage with my 2*512MB Corsair sticks.

Using 09/14 bios, VDimm at 3.0V, 230*10.5.
Memory timings :
DRAM Freq : 200 (1/01)
CPC : AUTO (boot screen showed 1T, so that looks good)
Tcl : 2.0
Trcd : 2
Tras : 2
Trp : 2
Trc : 12
Trfc : 14
Trrd : 2
Twr : 3
Twtr : 2
Trwt : 4
Tref : AUTO
all the rest at AUTO

Memtest gave no errors with those settings (almost 5 hours testing). Although v. 1.27 recognizes my NC as a Sempron. :stick:
After that, I tried 245*10, VDimm at 3.2V, same settings, but Memtest gave around 6k+ errors after almost 3 hours.
I just ordered a TDX block and will start playing with it a little more once I have it.



http://users.skynet.be/MetalHead/DFI/memtest@230.jpg


Pifast at 240*10.5 :


http://users.skynet.be/MetalHead/DFI/240x10_5_1on1.jpg

I just tested the Mushkin BH5 that I will be comparing to the Gskill PC4400 and OCZ PC4400.

260MHz @ 3.6v, single channel

http://home.mchsi.com/~246gts/Pics/520.jpg

Sorry for the big pic, reducing the image size in PS really destroyed the clarity. These chips may have more in them, but 260 fsb is pretty much the edge of stability for my 3.0c. Don't worry though, I've a nice 2.4c for fsb love.

Man, this forum is awesome! Thanks for all the input guys. I guess al ot of people were waiting to ask the same question. I hit 250 2-2-2-5 with 2 sticks single channel on the 754.. with .4 more volts, maybe I can hit 270? I heard the linear oc of fsb/volts with bh-5, but would it apply to 2 sticks running together as well?

Hehe, if nobody has said so yet...Welcome to XS.

Remove the heatspreaders and make sure there is a fan on the RAM. What voltage were you using to hit 250? Anything about 3.4-3.5v is questionable for 24/7 use on BH5, but wont hurt for a few benches.

I could be wrong though...I think I remember seeing someboy say 3.6v is the max tolerable range for BH5 according to Winbond's data sheets. Can somebody confirm this?

I removed the heatspreaders, and I'm running a Panaflo L1 right over them, I don't think I'm doing a super job to cool them, but for now it works. I'm running it at 250 at 3.2 volts.. I'm thinking about either buying an OCZ DDR booster, or just splurging a bit more, and buying a powerstream 520 and cranking that pot up to use 3.6 on my DFI.

you are thinking of "banks" not sides :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cargo555

if you are plannin to use 2x512mb of BH-5 or TCCD in your DFI 250gb, it also very much depends on your CPU's on-die memory controller to handle it at high HTT and 1T command rate (not worth using 2T)

As the 754 mobos are single channel, popping in 2 sticks of doubleside 512mb memory may make it difficult to achieve high FSB @ 1T, since many have mentioned that to the computer, those 2 sticks may look like 4 sticks of memory (due to doubleside)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gogeta

I just tested the Mushkin BH5 that I will be comparing to the Gskill PC4400 and OCZ PC4400.

260MHz @ 3.6v, single channel

http://home.mchsi.com/~246gts/Pics/520.jpg

Sorry for the big pic, reducing the image size in PS really destroyed the clarity. These chips may have more in them, but 260 fsb is pretty much the edge of stability for my 3.0c. Don't worry though, I've a nice 2.4c for fsb love.

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I feel that your sandra memory mark is on the low side. See my Hynix D43 which is also at 260MHz, with 2.5-3-3 1T timing.

http://www.anti-x.org/bbs/attachment...f_a64_2600.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gogeta

Hehe, if nobody has said so yet...Welcome to XS.

Remove the heatspreaders and make sure there is a fan on the RAM. What voltage were you using to hit 250? Anything about 3.4-3.5v is questionable for 24/7 use on BH5, but wont hurt for a few benches.

I could be wrong though...I think I remember seeing someboy say 3.6v is the max tolerable range for BH5 according to Winbond's data sheets. Can somebody confirm this?

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thats just what its rated at, people have run up to 4v+ fine

" (ocz 3200el rev 2, g.skill) hit 280-300+"


if you use 3-4-4-8 timings which suck bad. at 2.5-3-3-7 ive seen about 266fsb average, this is pc4200 speeds with pc3200 ram and at 2.8v too! our own eshbach is probably 5MHz from a record, he hit 285fsb with that ram! bh5 needs volts just to touch that 3200el thatll do it and save you the trouble of a risky vmod. I was thinking of vmodding so I can get my bh5 from 240fsb up to 260 but I dont think its worth it just for 3dmarks plus I hear my mobo has OVP anyway. Ill just save up for winchester and maybe even some of that 3200el ram, else ill just use my corsair value which can do 240-250fsb at 2.8v and 2.5-3-3-7 which is a record in itself ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geforce4ti4200

" (ocz 3200el rev 2, g.skill) hit 280-300+"


if you use 3-4-4-8 timings which suck bad. at 2.5-3-3-7 ive seen about 266fsb average, this is pc4200 speeds with pc3200 ram and at 2.8v too! our own eshbach is probably 5MHz from a record, he hit 285fsb with that ram! bh5 needs volts just to touch that 3200el thatll do it and save you the trouble of a risky vmod. I was thinking of vmodding so I can get my bh5 from 240fsb up to 260 but I dont think its worth it just for 3dmarks plus I hear my mobo has OVP anyway. Ill just save up for winchester and maybe even some of that 3200el ram, else ill just use my corsair value which can do 240-250fsb at 2.8v and 2.5-3-3-7 which is a record in itself ;)

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Actually, the 280-300+ fsb IS running at 2.5-3-3-7 if you took time to actually look at the benchmarks.. and the bandwidth is amazing. The 3200el is great, but if I can achieve 270 2-2-2-5, and the bandwidth for benching is greater then 3200el at 280-290, then I'd go for it. For everyday performance, I think my 250 2-2-2-5 is good enough for me, but for temporary benches, I want to try to hit as hard as I can. OCZ booster, or adjustable pots seem to be my solution, as I don't have much time, or skill to mod my board. My board also supports up to 4.0v vdimm, so I'd rather do the other. I'm actually thinking about buying a OCZ Powerstream and crank the pots on the 3.3v line, but right now I'm kinda sunk with my purchase of a CG 3400+ CH. :/

If you looked around you'd see 2.5-3-3-x 3200el and g.skill passing 300fsb.

Ah update!
Interesting note: On my 3200+ NC CG, at 255mhz memtest is STABLE at 9.5x
However, at 9.0x, it errors out like crazy. Any known reason for that guys?

(Thanks for all the help everyone..)

Gogeta can you post some results of your OCZ pc4400 with 2.8V. Tightest timings/high FSB and 3-4-4-8/high FSB and bandwidths.

Thanks

It looks to me that Gogeta is benching on a P4 rig and not an A64, or am I mistaken?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jupiler

It looks to me that Gogeta is benching on a P4 rig and not an A64, or am I mistaken?

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Yeah, kinda skews the testing for what the RAM does on 754. :stick: ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viccyran

Ah update!
Interesting note: On my 3200+ NC CG, at 255mhz memtest is STABLE at 9.5x
However, at 9.0x, it errors out like crazy. Any known reason for that guys?

(Thanks for all the help everyone..)

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.5 multi's increase the memory divider.

9x300 = 2700mhz
cpu/9 = 300mhz fsb

9.5x284 = 2700
cpu/10 = 270fsb

Made a quick bench with 1 stick of 512MB Corsair PC3500.
Vdimm at 3.3V, same memory settings as before, nothing changed :

Sandra Memory:

http://users.skynet.be/MetalHead/DFI/sandra_245.jpg


SuperPi :


http://users.skynet.be/MetalHead/DFI/superpi_245.jpg

those mem bandwidth scores seem pretty low to me.

As said before, it's my first ever A64 rig, so I don't really know if this score is good or not.
It's all new to me, and I have a lot to learn.

i could beet those mem scores with my nf2 and bh-5. did you shut off all services?

Nope. Was on a fresh install but no tweaks applied yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ahfung

I feel that your sandra memory mark is on the low side. See my Hynix D43 which is also at 260MHz, with 2.5-3-3 1T timing.

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I was thinking so too. When I ran the same BH5 at 250MHz, I got almost the exact same bandwidth...I'm guessing that was a software problem, as I used clockgen to increase the speed without re-starting Sandra. Could it also be that I'm on 875P?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by =[PULSAR]=

Gogeta can you post some results of your OCZ pc4400 with 2.8V. Tightest timings/high FSB and 3-4-4-8/high FSB and bandwidths.

Thanks

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Will do so on Tuesday or Wednesday once I get my watercooling reconfigured and pop in the 2.4c. I can't max out the OCZ (or the GSkill) with this 3.0c.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spaceman

Yeah, kinda skews the testing for what the RAM does on 754. :stick: ;)

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Yeah :sick:

At least you'll have an idea of what speed the GSkill PC4400 needs to achieve at 2.5-7-3-3 in order to overcome BH5 performance at 2-5-2-2. Should be "somewhat" universal.

I really wish I had an A64...those puppies are a tweaker's dream.

Pfft, I spit on crap timing ram

http://members.iinet.net.au/~zzhang/280pi.jpg

Nice and tight, the way it should be :D

makes me wonder if my bh-6 are capable of 280+ (i've had them to 275 so far, on nf2).. but then I realize I dont want to run high volts to my a64.. this is where tccd wins if you ask me.

there's always room for BH-5 vs TCCD.. why ?

for instance say your

1. AMD64 s754 cpu max was 2600mhz
2. BH-5 max was 260mhz 2-2-2-6
3. TCCD max was 310mhz 2.5-3-3-7

you can only run TCCD really at 8x310mhz 2.5-3-3-7 = 2480mhz or 9x 289 2.53-3-3-7 = 2601mhz

while BH-5 @ 10x260mhz 2-2-2-6 = 2600mhz would most likely be faster than 9x 289mhz 2.5-3-3-7

what about this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...04/a642700.jpg

dfx, prime95 stable ?

dfx please SuperPI that 1MB, thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eva2000

dfx, prime95 stable ?

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Not thro
But prime stable @ 2.6ghz
My BH5 cant make

Sorry guys cant find a pic of my BH5 @ 270mhz
I cant bench it at this speed now as i had just sold off my watercooling toys n' now waiting for my vapo LS to be shipped in
Anyhow i attached a table for u guys reference

http://orb-z.com/image/results2.gif

huh same table over at hardwarezone.com forums ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eva2000

huh same table over at hardwarezone.com forums ?

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Yep