MachII 410 mod

I am converting a MachII to R410 for xtremecold operation. shooting for -65C loaded may get colder... Here are the first set of build pics.

The box

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/1.jpg

The new condenser

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/2.jpg

The position of the components

:note the position of the compressor

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/3.jpg

Comparison of the condensers and the reformed schroud

:new coil is 3/4 inch taller than original

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/4.jpg

Coil mount and cut in fan shroud for compressor discharge

:note the extra set of holes for compressor mounting

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/5.jpg

Compressor mounted

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/6.jpg

Tubing complete and charged

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/7.jpg

Temps with 20% R410 are stable at 150W for 5 hours at -52C

http://www.blairwing.com/images/cowpuppy/8.jpg

: The clearances were very tight I test fired the fans and other than a little increase in noise the fan operates fine. As you can also see the controller will need to be relocated, and the LEDs are not going to show through the back unless I remove thenm and run extra wires.



Stay tuned more to follow I will edit the first post with more pics.info

oh neat!...wait...is 410 hard to come by?...cus..then why haven't i heard about it? other than from p/t tables, why not r508(-120C?)?

chilly1, can u tell me how to read this table? thx

P/T chart

eidt chilly1 corrected URL

R508 needs more of a compression ratio than a single compressor can do. It is a second stage gas and costs over 100 per ppound where R410 is the same price as R507 and with the proper size condenser it can work with a single compressor.

Nice job! I have a few condensors like that. I was going to abandon them because I thought they wouldnt work due to the way the liquid flows........... Guess I was wrong.

okey...dang it..im gonna ignore that pt table for now...

I thought that the compressor and a single condenser way couldnt handle it, I'm looking forward to see the complete proyect, if it didnt blow :D

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Originally posted by JSU
Nice job! I have a few condensors like that. I was going to abandon them because I thought they wouldnt work due to the way the liquid flows........... Guess I was wrong.

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The last loop is 1 up there is no problem with this as the condenser will have liquid at that point enough of the time to prevent oil pooling. These condensers are piped from top to botom with the last loop rising up one.

Nice mod, -65 on a single stage would be sweet. I've got the same condenser :D, but I have to use r22 or r290.

Looks good.

/me subscribes to the thread.

What compressor are the Mach2 using?

A danfoss.

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Originally posted by bh2k
A danfoss.

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hehe i know that, but i want to know the model number. Something in my head says NL11F, is that correct?
No wait NL11F is the 50Hz version, and you are using the 60hz version, right :) ?

On their site, they dont have the 11 version in 60hz, but they have the NL10MF. So presumably NL11MF?

EDIT: I was looking in the 240v section. In the 115v section they have one called NF11FX.

ppl use to say that is was hard to get these compressor to start with r507, need the exact amount or it wont start, chilly did that.
i always though that r410 was a second stage refrigerant, or a blend was requird to reduce the pressure for single stage.
what sorta high stage presssure do think you will see
well done

:toast:

Probably the same as 507 if I can swing it..

Quote:

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Originally posted by masterofpuppets
On their site, they dont have the 11 version in 60hz, but they have the NL10MF. So presumably NL11MF?

EDIT: I was looking in the 240v section. In the 115v section they have one called NF11FX.

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In the 220-240V versions they use the NL11F, in the 115V versions they use the NF9FX.
The difference in frequency (50Hz vs 60Hz) compensates the difference in displacement.

Quote:

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Originally posted by kayl
ppl use to say that is was hard to get these compressor to start with r507, need the exact amount or it wont start, chilly did that.
i always though that r410 was a second stage refrigerant, or a blend was requird to reduce the pressure for single stage.

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R410a is used a lot in single stage systems. A lot of airconditioning systems use it. But yes, condensing pressures are higher, and I can imagine that these pressures give that poor R134a compressor a hard time in starting up :)

If you run into startup troubles, maybe you can try adding a run-capacitor to the system?

Actually starting troubles will only occur if the system pressure is higher than the compressor is designed for I intend to keep the compressor with in ampere, pressure, and temperature specifications. This is why we have a larger condenser and the capillary tubing will also be adjusted to compensate for the higher pressures, It's all in the differential pressure caused by the metering device. I can also install a suction pressure regulator to limit the start up and pull down pressure. Like set it at 3 psi for pull down.

Have to mount the controller over the condenser though but the good news is it fits... I ended up with a blend of 20% R410 and 80% R 507 to get temps around -52 under load. I am going to try some other gasses now..... stay tuned...

oh neat..-52, oh yeah, i see alot of start capacitors on condensing units(although they're all r134 units) wat do they do?

A start cap provides the tourque fto spin the compressor up to speed With a cap the current is 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage and there are another set of windinge in the compressor this provides a rotating magnetic field that pushes the motor with more force. There is also a relay that after a milisecond pulls the cap offline.

oh, sorta like an extra boost...kk, thx!

nice nice chilly ;)
are u going to try it with a 100% r410 ratio? what condensing pressures are u getting now?

/me subscribes this thread too :)

Waiting for updates...that would be crazy if you can pull this off. -65c loaded!!!! Near cascade hold temps on a single phase! If you can get this to work, you'll be in 24/7 demand to mod every prommy on this forum, lol.

13 more degrees.....just 13 more degrees....

100% R410 would require an evap redesign and a different metering system and probably an oil seperator.

I guess I need to be a part of this thread to keep up to date on what is happening with my Mach2.

Chilly you are doing some really nice work, can't wait to see some results with the propane mix.

After this is completed Chilly will be modding my other Mach2 for a Vid card cooler.

ahhhh attack of the animals..... even master of the puppets changed his icon..... btw good job :thumbsup:

Don't worry, I got my old avatar saved on my HDD. The cat in the pic is a bengal cat. I got 2 bengal cats but I havent got any good pics of them :(

Didn't hipro modify his prom to R410???

I think I remember him saying that...
IMO he got pretty good temps, but dunno if he's using 100% of R410.

Good job, Chilly :thumbsup:

Wish I would live in the states. I have an empty Mach1 here and cannot fix it here in Germany. :( That would be a mod I would appreciate to have ;)

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Originally posted by SAE
Didn't hipro modify his prom to R410???
I have an empty Mach1 here and cannot fix it here in Germany. :( That would be a mod I would appreciate to have ;)

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there is a guy in holland who makes and fixes proms and other P-C stuff!

Haeg koeling :toast:

it's only 550km away from magdeburg :D

It depends on the ambient, Hipro's room temperature might be a lot colder over in Greece giving him a lower condensing pressure. If I do it to my Prommy over here in Singapore with usual ambient of 30C, I think it will be dancing on its feet :)

i really wish i knew more about this stuff:confused: I may be forced to have you do this to me mach1 :D

-52c at 150W is plain enough for even me tho:D What ambient temp is that at?

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Originally posted by Mongoose420
[B

-52c at 150W is plain enough for even me tho:D What ambient temp is that at? [/B]

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When I was on the phone with Chilly I belive he told me he had it set up in his garage and it was 80 deg and was holding that temp 4 a 24hr period.

nice, im in good old PA where it rarely gets above 90F outside. I could easily hold that indoor temp year round.....:rocker:

Sorry, too much coffee for me today...

I didnt monitor it too closley but it was aroungd -51 to -52 every time I looked I ran it for a day..

no updates? or did you decide on the 80/20 507/410 mix?

Just got in from a busy day tried a 40% 410 blend too much head pressure, I have another blend I am going to try, Working on the modifications now more tomorrow evening.

ah, this should be very exciting. -60 on single stage at 150w load.

I've moded my Mach1 unit with pure R410 gas with the same condenser and with two Delta 12x12 cm 190 cfm working push-pull (one in front of the condencer and one in back of it)......I also have changed the capillary tube with a No4 one (2.5mm outside diameter)......ALSO afterwords I changed the Compressor with a SC12CL one for 404 gas......My room temp is about 27*C and I get -22*C max on Promie's head on a P4 3.4GHz EE CPU at 4600MHz with 2.1VCore......That's about 230 to 240Watts heat......No matter what , niether R404 nor R507 couldn't hold the wattage of the CPU and the temps where rising and rising......Only the R410 could and can handle that wattage with the default Promie's head........Another head needed for more power consuption....... ;)

http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/T...ressor_jpg.jpg

nice job, i would love to do a mod like this on my prommy, but i already get -50, maybe the extra 12 degrees wouldnt do much

The R410/blend mod with stock compressor will do better temps and loads but it is also more susceptible to ambient fluctuations. -25 to 30C in bios is about the limit head temp loaded around -45 to -50C. All in all the 507 mod is the best for the prommie.

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Originally Posted by chilly1

All in all the 507 mod is the best for the prommie.

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Agree........

Hey Chilly, whilst your in the mood for some extreme prommy mods try some R1270 (propylene). The PT chart is very similar to R404a/R507 but this gas is way more efficient. Could possibly be used at low suction pressures (10" Hg)and still maintain the good capacity (eg 200W).

Will do I can get that tomorrow... I will also load test it and see what happens.. I got a 300w dummy load.

A modded mach II with new cap tube and a blend of r404a (90%) and R410a (10%).
Would it be possible to do this with the stock condenser ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mima

A modded mach II with new cap tube and a blend of r404a (90%) and R410a (10%).
Would it be possible to do this with the stock condenser ?

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YES :)

I did it too Fosco's mach2 and it works realy good. But i dont know how good it is for the kompressor. ....too run 24/7

Hi,

Very nice chilly!

Just one question, what load ya using....reason i ask is , that doin the math, i cant see how on earth you get anything below -50c evap temps with a 150 watt load (overclocked FX/EE sorta cpu loads) with the 1/3rd (almost) HP prommy compressors....unless thats the prommy nonsense temp reading!

very facinateing work Chilly, quite impressive. I wonder what you could do on a single stage with say a 1/2 or 3/4th HP compressor.

Good luck man

I have a pretty good handle on how to tune single gas mixtures ie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaZeR

From what I have read here and there, you are best to start at a lower charge than you expect, load the CPU up with work (100%) and slowly add charge. Let the unit stabalise after each step and the temps should be going down each time. Once they start to go up after adding charge you are done. Of course at each step you can increase your overclock and this way optimise your system.

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Any tips or shortcuts for tuning these multi-gas single stage coolers guys?