alright @ newegg.com
2800+ $165
3000+ $200
3200+ $245
3400+ $345 (retail 1mb CH)
3400+ $400
3500+ $400
all those prices are for the retail box CPU... all are Newcastle cores cept the noted one...
Printable View
alright @ newegg.com
2800+ $165
3000+ $200
3200+ $245
3400+ $345 (retail 1mb CH)
3400+ $400
3500+ $400
all those prices are for the retail box CPU... all are Newcastle cores cept the noted one...
oh...GREAT timing. I bought my CH one day ago.
Quote:
Originally posted by craig588
oh...GREAT timing. I bought my CH one day ago.
Hate when that happens..
Good news none-the-less:toast:
crap just got system up and going and bam!!!!!!! holy moly batman they lowered prices.
thought I got a good deal at 469 shipped for a boxed 3500+ now its 399.00
oh well hope AMD can keep up with demand since they are running short on supply
FX chips still over 800.00 so no big drop there or atleast not yet
Very good news not only for us but it's gonna give AMD a bit more of an edge securing first sales to some peeps basing thier purchase on price.
I was starting to think AMD wasn't gonna try to price match INTEL and thier "E" line of cpu's.... Intel is pushing those 2.8E's pretty darn hard!
just great 60 dollars cheaper thats just messed up.
Athlon 64 3700+, 2.4 GHz, 1MB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail - $599 :D
whoa, better yet, check out gameve's - www.gameve.com prices:
AMD ATHLON 64 2800+ OEM - $162.00
AMD ATHLON 64 3000+ RETAIL - $183.00
AMD ATHLON 64 3200+ RETAIL (1MB C0) - $230
AMD ATHLON 64 3200+ OEM (1MB C0) - $204
AMD ATHLON 64 3500+ 939PIN OEM - $345
AMD ATHLON 64 3700+ 754PIN OEM - $505
and MonarchPC - www.monarchcomputer.com:
AMD Athlon 64 3400+ 512K (754) - $288 [ Might actually be a 1MB cache CPU - Manufacturer Part Number: ADA3400AEP5AR ]
AMD Athlon 64 3400+ 512K (754) (Retail Box-w-Fan) - $309
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 512K (754) - $208
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 512K (754) (Retail Box-w-Fan) - $229
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 512K (754) - $163
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 512K (754) (Retail Box-w-Fan) - $179
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 512K (754) - $144
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 512K (754) (Retail Box-w-Fan) - $159
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 512K (939) - $346
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 512K (939) (Retail Box-w-Fan) - $369
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 1MB (754) - $507
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 1MB (754) (Retail Box-w-Fan) - $535
Though not as significant, ZipZoomFly also has price drops on retail kits: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...oryCode=010423
daaaaaaaaaaamn
now s939 is looking viable for me @ $350 for a CPU and 2 new cheaper ones due out soon too
Yeah :) Actually that 3700+ for ~$500 is killer ... nothing on S939 besides the FX53 can match it :D
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I just bought a damn 2800+ mobile for like $10 less than the 3200+ is now. After the RMA it needed, I come out to the same freaking price. Just :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:ing great.
Geez, only if there were more mobo options for s939 I would order a 3500 right now.
nice drop will get me another 2800+ soon.
get a A8V with and add Bios 1005.021 and you are set.Quote:
Originally posted by Hightower
Geez, only if there were more mobo options for s939 I would order a 3500 right now.
Anyone know when the price drop will come to the UK?
i thought they prices were going up?
Yaaayyyy! Price drops in the UK,and Europe,start monday.Quote:
Originally posted by thebeast
Anyone know when the price drop will come to the UK?
ah sweet...
Mhh, order a 3500+on monday. But I'm not sure about the board...
now thats how u work the system ;)Quote:
Originally posted by pc ice
im glad i just returned my 3000+ chip i paeyed 250 for..ang got full refund. looks like i can get a 3200 for the money now.
wish they would start dropping the prices on the FX series.
xgman, be thankful AMD isn't matching FX prices with the EE's...
Too bad the mobiles didn't drop ... looks like 3400+ 1MB for $345, and 3700+ 1MB for $505 are your only solid hopes for ClawHammer CGs now besides the mobiles :)
Good im gonna add Gameve to my favs now lol :), dang i want to buy a a64 setup but i need a graphics card thats in this century first :(
Yeah, but the S754 (which was faster and cheaper before) has been lowered even more (see price list above) making the S939 an even more rediculous move.;)Quote:
Originally posted by Arkangyl
daaaaaaaaaaamn
now s939 is looking viable for me @ $350 for a CPU and 2 new cheaper ones due out soon too
I don't think there is any argument at all for going S939 unless you spend the big bucks and go for FX-53.
It's new!:p:Quote:
Originally posted by StormPC
I don't think there is any argument at all for going S939.
So is the Prescot.
If you are going to quote me, quote the whole sentence, otherwise it appears you are twisting my words to prove something that isn't true.:mad:
prescot is sad lol. Im loving this 3700+.
Not everything that is new is good.
:stick:Quote:
Originally posted by StormPC
So is the Prescot.
If you are going to quote me, quote the whole sentence, otherwise you are twisting my words.:mad:
at $500 the 3700 doesn't sound out of reach anymore. how much did you pay?Quote:
Originally posted by milan03
prescot is sad lol. Im loving this 3700+.
It was only $170 more before. Even if it was more than a 3800+ it would be worth it because it's faster, more stable and the motherboards are more mature and less expensive for the most part.
My ram is really holding me back, I know. I have lot's of money though. I'm just getting started benching with PC and vmods. Lot's to learn. I've only used the PC twice, and the vmods once.:D
Edit:
milan03,
Yep, in realworld gaming the FX-53 could POSSIBLY play a little stronger game of chess (assuming the program is written properly) but would not have any noticible advantage over a 3700+ in 3D gaming.
If youre a gamer, i cant see how can someone justify fx-53 over $320 cheaper 3700+ that oc's/performs as well as 53.
It doesn't perform as well. FX53 outperforms a 3700+. FX has dual channel AND 1meg.
3700+ also has a meg.Quote:
Originally posted by Lithan
It doesn't perform as well. FX53 outperforms a 3700+. FX has dual channel AND 1meg.
See my last edit above.
Like Lithan said it doesn't perform as well. No offence to storm, but I can beat the 2k1 score in his sig with a stock card. The real question with the price drops is if the extra performance is worth the money. That's up to individual prefference.Quote:
Originally posted by milan03
If youre a gamer, i cant see how can someone justify fx-53 over $320 cheaper 3700+ that oc's/performs as well as 53.
For the person who talked about ram. I have some eb and its slower than my bh-5. Get a grip
BH-5 ... is ... still ... king.
But it wouldn't hurt for Storm to replace his BH-6 with some nice clocking BH-5 :)
Tbh, benchmarking is different than playing 3d games, imo. Fx-53 will > 3700+ cause of its dual channel support but most of today games wont really benefit out of dual channel that much. NOw we all know that fx-53 is the best amd chip, but price tag of extra $320+ for that chip is WAAAAAAY off :)
why is it when tested a 3500 was faster than a 3400 and a 3800 is faster than a 3700 ????
or are you reffering when both processors are at the exact same Mhz???
I wonder how my poor slow 3500 will do in Car High and lobby high once my X800 comes in ??? hummm 3 weeks and counting
Why don't you run some benchies and show us?
Clock for Clock you'll probably beat him in LL and LH. I haven't looked at the difference between them in CH, but its more dependant on cpu speed then memory speed from what I've seen. Overall the s754 CL will out run the s939 NC IMO
It's a tall order to get a 3500+ or 3800+ on the front page of the 2k1 ORB. So tall that it probably won't happen. If you look at the front page you WILL see mostly S754 based systems. That's all I need to see. The Newcastles are just too handicapped by the lack of cache. If it wasn't for the P4EE there would not be a single Intel CPU on the first two pages. Again, it's the cache thing. Taking half of the cache from an A64 is the equivalent of kicking it in the balls.
I don't need toQuote:
Originally posted by StormPC
Why don't you run some benchies and show us?
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...9/image001.gif
non basis independant testing. :D
Notice 3DMark (the two most popular gaming benchmarks in the world) are missing from your chart. Why do you think that might be? Could it be that 3DMark scores are too easily varified whereas those others are not so easily checked?:shrug:
boom less and bench more!:toast:
no because those are more directed to video card than CPU
why is your 3Dmarks so much higher than mine?? Video card
this was a CPU test not video card test.
and the 754 won a couple but overall it lost more due to being slower.
its a 3400 not a 3600 ;)
No offense, You're missing my point. I'm saying the whole point of having phase change cooling is to get really high overclocks. Why spend big bucks on phase change if you're ram doesn't have the headroom to run 1:1? I have some eb and it's more stable at high htt. I sold the mushkin BH-5 black lev. II some time ago and made $200 over what I paid and haven't missed it one bit. Yes you're right if you're running a low fsb cas2 is faster, but that's not going to last once you really start raising it unless you have vdimm mod. or use a divider.Quote:
Originally posted by pkrew
Like Lithan said it doesn't perform as well. No offence to storm, but I can beat the 2k1 score in his sig with a stock card. The real question with the price drops is if the extra performance is worth the money. That's up to individual prefference.
For the person who talked about ram. I have some eb and its slower than my bh-5. Get a grip
There is no 1:1 on A64, Memory is completely and totally untied from the HTT.
You set the HTT x multi for your max CPU clock. Then you set the divider (CPU/x) for your best memory clock.
Here's a test. Pkrew max out your BH-5 and give a sandra bench as well as Super_Pi 1M run. trans am, max out your EB and give a sandra bench as well as Super_Pi 1M run also.
CPU must run at 2400MHz +/- 25MHz, use whatever multi, divider LDT, volts you want.
I see your point. He has cas 2 and I have cas 3 but I'll do it if you really want. I'm downloading superpi right now. never used it before.
Here you go max spi winXP
Best Sandra thus far winXP. This is 274 X 11 2225. I could do 280 at 3.6v on a K8Npro
i thought the rules were you need to run cpu at 2400.
lol :)
sorry didn't see the 2400 limit, lol. Either way you can see that high fsb is very obtainable with bh-5 and regardless of what we run, I'm using an FX and dual channel I'll be ahead in Sandra and spi, but I think I got 30s at 2440
Of course, dual-channel, forgot we are on two different sockets here...can you do a single channel run pkrew ?
I could, but we'd still be comparing apples to oranges. I have some pc3700 eb 2 x 512, but it maxes at 260 3225. Slower by over 200 points in 2k1 against 2 256 of bh-5 at 260 2225
would one stick of 512 and one 256 matter? or would this be unfair? I think the cas2 factor would really give pkrew an advantage since I would run cas 2.5 or closer to cas 3 with the eb. do you want to continue?
trans am that's exactly the point. BH-5 does Cas2, EB doesn't.
I thought you were arguing how much better EB was since it scaled '1:1' so high ?
So show us.
ok ok, correct me if I read your post wrong, So you're saying there's no performance increase by using ram in sync with htt(1:1)? you want the highest htt possible and just want the tightest timings possible and use a divider. I am having a hard time understanding. So you could use pc2700 2-2-2-8 with a divider and you'd get better performance? This is good because I am actually learning something here. Sorry about turning a thread about falling cpu prices into a ram battle. This is like Trekkies meets the movie You Got Served. lol!Quote:
Originally posted by LilGator
trans am that's exactly the point. BH-5 does Cas2, EB doesn't.
I thought you were arguing how much better EB was since it scaled '1:1' so high ?
So show us.
What are you talking about ? I can't tell if you are serious, or sarcastic :D
PC2700 of course wouldn't get better performance ... it's still running at 166MHz.
You said BH-5 doesn't have the headroom to go 1:1. It doesn't need to. All you have to do is run whatever HTT you need to get your max CPU clock, then use a divider. Memory is based on the CPU speed. Not the HTT.
Basically what I'm saying is you can push EB to 270-280, 3-3-2-7 or whatever, but BH-5 with a divider at 260 2-2-2-5 will still beat it.
BH-5 to the limit is faster than EB to the limit.
Occasionally you will see some lucky EB that does 300+, but then there is some lucky (and heavily volt-aided) BH-5 that does 280+.
I am serious. :) is this right?Quote:
Originally posted by LilGator
What are you talking about ? I can't tell if you are serious, or sarcastic :D
PC2700 of course wouldn't get better performance ... it's still running at 166MHz.
You said BH-5 doesn't have the headroom to go 1:1. It doesn't need to. All you have to do is run whatever HTT you need to get your max CPU clock, then use a divider. Memory is based on the CPU speed. Not the HTT.
Basically what I'm saying is you can push EB to 270-280, 3-3-2-7 or whatever, but BH-5 with a divider at 260 2-2-2-5 will still beat it.
BH-5 to the limit is faster than EB to the limit.
Occasionally you will see some lucky EB that does 300+, but then there is some lucky (and heavily volt-aided) BH-5 that does 280+.
example eb3700 at ddr533 3-2-3-10 is slower than bh5 at ddr400 2-2-2-5. So what's the point of buying expensive pc4200 if you could buy cheaper pc3200 ram and use a divider. IF this is true then I am under some misconceptions and sincerely appologize to everyone. There's no point to buy ram rated over ddr400 for amd64 because of the integrated mem controller? just buy cas2 and that's it?
When pc4x00 first came out people went through this. With the adata that would do 300+ fsb 1:1 but was performing significantly worse on intel setups with bh-5 2-2-2-x 5:4. Eb isn't the same thing because it can run much tighter timings (3-2-2 or 3-2-3 v 3-4-4-7). Being that cas makes such a small impact on performance many people are opting for eb now since it has the ability to go much higher than bh-5 and generally without vmods eb can often outperform bh-5. However, with volt mods the speed advantage is nulliffied and bh-5 can attain high enough clocks to retake the performance edge.Quote:
Originally posted by trans am
So what's the point of buying expensive pc4200 if you could buy cheaper pc3200 ram and use a divider.
Either way you go, eb and bh-5 are both damn good chips, and since bh-5 is no longer readily available, and with the good pricing on eb, there isn't realy any need to argue over which is better, especially in a thread about dropping amd prices...which by the way kicks ass, and I will be ordering a cpu as soon as the dfi s754 mobo is released (still haven't decided between nc or cw, being that I can't find any head to head comparisons of max oc v max oc).
Look at what the guys on top of the ORB are running. It's not PC4200.
gouda96
Believe me, you want a ClawHammer. Newcastles are not good performers.
BTW: To anyone who may care, I just picked up an Asus A8V and FX-53 for a price I couldn't refuse. This weekend I'll be testing the PC Ice phasechange cooler on the FX-53.
Also, THE S939 FX-53 IS A CLAWHAMMER THAT HAS BEEN RENAMED A SLEDGEHAMMER!!! Further proof that FX is the only way to go if you are thinking S939.
See, Sledgehammers require reg memory (only Opterons and S940 FX's are truly Sledgehammers) and they are all made with a dark gray ceramic package. Clawhammers and Newcastles are made with organic green or brown packages which is the same as the S939 FX. Also, the die of the FX-939 is identical in size to the S754 Clawhammers I've seen naked. For these reasons I believe that the S754 3700+ is an FX-53 S939 with a different package (less pins) and one of it's controllers disabled.
Check this out for more info:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...95#post2748995
Never even asked the guys what they are running there BH series ram at before telling to replace...Quote:
Originally posted by trans am
I am serious. :) is this right?
Besides... as you can see you're telling a guy who constantly says "Go to the orb" as the end all be all test. Go take a peek and report back what you see.
The main thing here with the way the fsb is integrated.... you are pretty much always running a divider off the cpu speed for the mem anyway... always. Second thing is that Ras to Cas of 2 is worth big MHz. For instance, BH5 could probably top your mem bandwidth right now with maybe 225 to your 246 if the EB isnt tightened to 2. See though, I'm not telling you to get new ram, but you should test a good deal at ras of cas of 2 if you can and give up quite a few MHz on the fsb for it.
Who is on top??? DDR500 being shown
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/b...10646/2747.png
link to full charts http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2130&p=7
granted its only a small sample of ram thats avil.
I'm glad this happened because I learned a lot. I am going to save this page because I think it will help a lot of others new to AMD64 and end the misconceptions. Sorry again, I stand corrected. I'm not used to the level of maturity on this forum and appreciate the politeness and the time you took explaining things in detail instead of simply getting flamed and told to Fvck off. warm regards.
what chip is the EB stuff using??
Micron ic's except for the 1gig sticks.
If you would have bothered to look at the test setup for the stupid barchart you posted you would have noticed they were using a P4. This thread is about A64s, not the same thing at all. P4s have different requirements for RAM. What works well on a P4 does not necessarily work at all on the A64.Quote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
what chip is the EB stuff using??
Pretty chart though! Maybe less booming/more reading before pulling that trigger tiger. :rolleyes:
why don't you get off your a$$ and show some proof to dispell what I've shown??
You have nothing to offer except your opinion.
show us how EB isn't the best or top of the list???? proof would be nice.
Quote:
Originally posted by trans am
"I am serious. is this right?
example eb3700 at ddr533 3-2-3-10 is slower than bh5 at ddr400 2-2-2-5. So what's the point of buying expensive pc4200 if you could buy cheaper pc3200 ram and use a divider. IF this is true then I am under some misconceptions and sincerely appologize to everyone. There's no point to buy ram rated over ddr400 for amd64 because of the integrated mem controller? just buy cas2 and that's it?"
You've got it now :) 1:1 with slack timings is slower than 5:4 with tight timings. It's even the same on the P4 (though the P4 does take a hit with dividers), but A64 of course has no 1:1 or 5:4 as I said earlier, so there is no performance hit running a divider and there is no magical thing that happens with 1:1 like everyone seems to think. Now in your comparison EB with 533 def. would be faster than BH-5 @ 200MHz, it's too big of a MHz gap for the timings to make up for it. EB is the best memory available with 3.0v or less, but 3.2v+ BH-5 is much better. Also, it really gives you unlimited multipliers if you think about it.Quote:
Originally posted by trans am
I'm glad this happened because I learned a lot. I am going to save this page because I think it will help a lot of others new to AMD64 and end the misconceptions. Sorry again, I stand corrected. I'm not used to the level of maturity on this forum and appreciate the politeness and the time you took explaining things in detail instead of simply getting flamed and told to Fvck off. warm regards.
Lets say you have an 8x multi chip, and you want a '10x multi'.
All you have to do is set your memory mode (divider) to 166, and move the HTT up to 240. Bam, you have your memory at 200MHz, and your CPU at 2000MHz (Just like 10x200) with only an 8x multi :)
Lets say you're like me, and you want the 3700+ 12x multi ;)
Then you set your memory speed (divider) to 133, and move the HTT up to 300. And again your have your memory at 200MHz, and your CPU is running 2400MHz (Just like 12x200) with only the 8x multi. Obviously if you move the HTT higher you'll have to drop the LDT to keep your HT within its spec (or as high as you know it to go)
Virtual 12x/11x/10x/9x multies are all possible with an 8x multi chip using that method.
[Virtual 9x Multiplier] - [9x200]
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
[Virtual 10x Multiplier] - [10x200]
9x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 166 and raise HTT to 240-241MHz
[Virtual 11x Multiplier] - [11x200]
10x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
9x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 166 and raise HTT to 240-241MHz
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 150 and raise HTT to 266-267MHz
[Virtual 12x Multiplier] - [12x200]
11x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
10x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 166 and raise HTT to 240-241MHz
9x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 150 and raise HTT to 266-267MHz
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 133, and raise HTT to 300MHz
Hope this helps, and thanks for listening/thinking outside of what you knew to be true before :)
some A64 comments since you can't accept the above testing
OCZ is breaking new ground with their latest Enhanced Bandwidth series, and 3700EB extends the EB performance envelope. While rated at DDR466, we were able to reach a stable DDR524 on our Intel test bed and an even more remarkable DDR550 on our AMD nForce3-250 test platform.
higher it got. the wider its bandwidth and on a A64 it clocked even more than the intel setup.
I wonder how well 3700EB would do with some extra voltage ;)
Even EB at DDR550 (probably 3-2-3) is no match for BH-5 (2-2-2) at even DDR500-520.Quote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
some A64 comments since you can't accept the above testing
OCZ is breaking new ground with their latest Enhanced Bandwidth series, and 3700EB extends the EB performance envelope. While rated at DDR466, we were able to reach a stable DDR524 on our Intel test bed and an even more remarkable DDR550 on our AMD nForce3-250 test platform.
higher it got. the wider its bandwidth and on a A64 it clocked even more than the intel setup.
I wonder how well 3700EB would do with some extra voltage ;)
hummmm look at the followingQuote:
Originally posted by LilGator
Even EB at DDR550 (probably 3-2-3) is no match for BH-5 (2-2-2) at even DDR500-520.
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/c...50643/2388.png
that shows stable timings at 400 mhz notice the EB is below the 2-2-2-5 muskin and corsair memorys.
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/c...50643/2392.png
this chart at 433 mhz the EB has caught up and passed the muskin by a small amount and still below the Corsair.
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/c...50643/2402.png
by 466mhz EB is passing the Corsair
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/c...50643/2399.png
by 500 mhz EB is on top Period.
Since the EB can goto 550 mhz on the A64 system Iam sure it stays on top of the heap due to its improved scaling as speed increases. This happens even at the looser timings.
As I said I wonder how well EB would do with improved voltage to help keep its timings low.
My old Geil is rated at 2-3-2-6 and I run it at 2-2-2-5 so Iam sure the EB could be tweaked timing wise.
Nothing against BH-5 chips those things whale on high voltages.
I'd like to see some low timing PC4000 EB :D
A) There was no BH-5 tested, Mushkin 2-2-2 Special is BH-6
B) in the 466 and 500 Round, not even BH-6 was tested.
C) More volts usually don't help EB much at all
D) For EB to get over 240-250 usually you have to move from 2.5-2-2 to 3-2-2, and higher to 3-2-3 which slows it down even more...
E) Thats running a P4 setup, not A64 which is what we are talking about (P4 is optimized for high-speed loose timings)
It does look like the new DFI treats EB especially well, but I can't remember if BigToe just has a golden set of EB or not ...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...threadid=39636
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postid=505468
But OPP got his Mushkin BH-5 to 268MHz 2-2-2 with the same board, don't have a sandra bandwidth screenie, but that would be interesting to see :)
Quoted from Anandtech forums:
"(6) Do I need to run 1:1 memory to achieve peak performance on the Athlon 64?
Not really, given the Athlon 64 architecture and the integrated memory controller, there is no statistically significant advantage to running memory at a 200 setting versus a 166 setting at, for example, around DDR400 speeds. Even at the 200 setting the memory in an Athlon 64 system is running async. The memory speed is arrived at by using a divisor off the Athlon 64 CPU speed (i.e. a /12 divisor.) Also, unlike the Pentium 4, the Athlon 64 is not bandwidth starved; thus, the difference in memory speeds between DDR400 and DDR 500 is at most 1-2%. In other words, don't go crazy and throw away perfectly good PC3200 RAM thinking you'll see a significant boost using DDR500 for example; you won't, and your wallet will hurt."
think you missed this part
we were able to reach a stable DDR524 on our Intel test bed and an even more remarkable DDR550 on our AMD nForce3-250 test platform.
at 500 EB leading the pack no reason to think at 550 its still not leading the pack. Granted in extreme cases like with OPP running an ungodly 360 FSB BH-5 more than likely would win due to its nature to handle more voltage and keep timings. but I can't say for sure yes or no since I don't have the product to test it and haven't seen direct comparisons online.
So based off info I've seen and given via links I would say that at any speed between 466 - 550 on an AMD setup EB will give BH-5 a run for its money. Speeds over 550 I can only speculate about.
They did not compare BH-5, why don't you get that ?
And BH-5 has no problems at all hitting DDR500-530. Heck. 550 isn't too hard with a little more volts...
If you can show me a direct compare of EB DDR500 (3-2-2-5) vs. BH-5 DDR500 (2-2-2-5)
or EB DDR520 (3-2-2-5 or 3-3-2-5) vs. BH-5 DDR520 (2-2-2-5) even...with EB winning, i'll shut up.
OPP - 235MHz - 2-2-2-5 (S940, reg CH-5)
CodeRed - 273MHz - 2-2-2-5 (S754, BH-5)
Macci - 272MHz - 2-2-2-5 (S754, BH-5)
PKrew - 269MHz - 2-2-2-5 (S939, BH-5)
Jason57570 - 234MHz - 2-2-2-5 (S940, reg CH-5)
Top 5 on the ORB
I don't know about this 1:1 vs 166 statement. I took a cpu clock of 2420mhz and tested at 1:1 then did superpi and membandwidth bench. The results are much worse than 1-2%Quote:
Originally posted by LilGator
Quoted from Anandtech forums:
"(6) Do I need to run 1:1 memory to achieve peak performance on the Athlon 64?
Not really, given the Athlon 64 architecture and the integrated memory controller, there is no statistically significant advantage to running memory at a 200 setting versus a 166 setting at, for example, around DDR400 speeds. Even at the 200 setting the memory in an Athlon 64 system is running async. The memory speed is arrived at by using a divisor off the Athlon 64 CPU speed (i.e. a /12 divisor.) Also, unlike the Pentium 4, the Athlon 64 is not bandwidth starved; thus, the difference in memory speeds between DDR400 and DDR 500 is at most 1-2%. In other words, don't go crazy and throw away perfectly good PC3200 RAM thinking you'll see a significant boost using DDR500 for example; you won't, and your wallet will hurt."
If you can convince me otherwise, I'll shut up. But I think it does matter 1:1 is better than a divider. Check it out. I need some more convincing based on this test.
Here it is at 166 divider
You are running the same RAM, with the same timings, one at 17% lower speeds. And, you got a 17% performance gap. You need to run BH-5 with a 166 divider and you will start to see that gap close. However, you are comparing RAM that can do 246MHz to RAM that supposedly can do 200MHz. BH-5 can do 246MHz as well, so you don't even need to use a divider :p:
http://upload.richfool.com/uploaded/313x8.jpg
Actually that is running a divider, since I can't run my RAM at 313MHz, but I need the 313MHz HTT to get my CPU clocks :)
If you can show me how using EB would get me better bandwidth, while still hitting 2500MHz on the CPU with an 8x multi, let me know.
This has nothing to do with the bh-5 discussion earlier. I am just trying to understand what anandtec is saying. To me they are saying you could run 2500mhz with ddr400(166 divider.) and run 2500mhz with ddr533 ram at 1:1 and there will only be a 1-2% difference. Or is he saying you could run 10x200 with ddr400 at 1:1 and run 10x240 with the same ram with a 166 divider (approx. 200) and you would get the same scores?
Using a divider resulting in the same RAM and CPU speed will give you equal results. Thats because the RAM speed is in no way tied to the FSB (HTT).
I think Anandtech was saying that between running typical DDR400 (tighter timings), vs. typical DDR500 (much looser timings) will be a small performance difference. In everyday applications, gaming etc...there will only be a 2-5% difference. And of course, that won't be noticeable. Of course, synthetic benchmarks like sandra will show a much larger difference, but you were also running the same RAM with the same timings, at slower vs. faster speeds...
Now of course, we are dealing with the top 2 types of RAM available. :D Anandtech is probably looking at typical RAM available, the value stuff...
my friend ran the same test except this one has tight timings, and loose timings.
1:1 with loose timings
166 with tighter timings
can you run a sisoft bench with 2-2-2-6 (166) with cpu clock at 2500?
try 2-3-2 @166 and 3-4-4 @ 200
we did already look at the post.
Trans your Cas is 3 on both
try 3 on loose (200) and 2 on tight (166)
We don't have any cas2 over here. That's why I wanted Lilgator to do it. He has a similar cpu 754 single channel with bh-5 that can clock the same.
Hmm... I stopped reading on page two, check the thread a few days later and we're talking bh5 vs eb.
Look BH5 will beat EB at the same speed, PERIOD. Even OCZ never meant for EB to outperform BH5. They said themselves it was created to fill the gap in the marketplace left by BH5's death. With unending volts BH5 is king and will be for some time. With limited volts in many circumstances, EB will probably be your best bet. But this is XtremeSystems, we shouldn't care about which performs better at 2.8v. ;)
Depending on the stick, the BH5 I've seen opens up around 2.9-3.3v. I've seen sticks that do 245 at 2.9v and sticks that do 240 at 3.1v. You cram enough voltage up its ass and BH5 IS YO DADDY!
I'll try to help ya out here trans am.... I know you arent talking of BH5 anymore but this is still pertinent to the anandtech statement....
What anandtech is saying is there is no 1:1 penalty worth getting concerned about. Because the A64 isn't bandwidth starved, and has these "virtual multipliers" with little 1:1 penalty, you dont have to go throw away low timings for fsb. Say AXP's were locked down and alive and kicking, because async on them sucks so bad if you had no multi's and a prommie, you'd have to find some ram that wouldnt hold back the cpu speed. Not a concern so much here. All other things need to be equal (those being mem & Cpu speeds, HTT wont really hurt or help 3d too much) like in the above quoted example for things to make sense. You can crank the HTT and increase your cpu speed without worrying of deadly dividers.Quote:
Originally posted by LilGator
All you have to do is set your memory mode (divider) to 166, and move the HTT up to 240. Bam, you have your memory at 200MHz, and your CPU at 2000MHz (Just like 10x200) with only an 8x multi :)
Lets say you're like me, and you want the 3700+ 12x multi ;)
Then you set your memory speed (divider) to 133, and move the HTT up to 300. And again your have your memory at 200MHz, and your CPU is running 2400MHz (Just like 12x200) with only the 8x multi. Obviously if you move the HTT higher you'll have to drop the LDT to keep your HT within its spec (or as high as you know it to go)
Virtual 12x/11x/10x/9x multies are all possible with an 8x multi chip using that method.
[Virtual 9x Multiplier] - [9x200]
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
[Virtual 10x Multiplier] - [10x200]
9x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 166 and raise HTT to 240-241MHz
[Virtual 11x Multiplier] - [11x200]
10x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
9x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 166 and raise HTT to 240-241MHz
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 150 and raise HTT to 266-267MHz
[Virtual 12x Multiplier] - [12x200]
11x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 183 and raise HTT to 219-220MHz
10x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 166 and raise HTT to 240-241MHz
9x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 150 and raise HTT to 266-267MHz
8x Multi Chip: Set Memory to 133, and raise HTT to 300MHz
Hope this helps, and thanks for listening/thinking outside of what you knew to be true before :)
Not bandwidth starved simply states searching for the Holy grail of expensive memory is not a necessity for everyone. It doesnt mean bandwidth doesnt matter. They are not saying there is not a benefit in running your ram at 200 over 166. They are talking of using the 166 setting and getting the mem back up to modern speeds. You just dont need to find ram that will do 10 more MHz fsb because it will hold your 10x multi chip back by 100MHz if you don't. Thing is you can max quality ram and it should be able to keep the A64 happy, all the while not holding back the cpu. That's what I thought anandtech meant and it's relevant. I dont get the last part i.e DDR400 vrs. 500 unless they are considering the usual latency penalty involved in your more mainstream user who's using running DDR@500. Because even if not bandwidth starved... more is nice!
It's not that. I'm trying to prove this wrong.Quote:
Originally posted by Lithan
Hmm... I stopped reading on page two, check the thread a few days later and we're talking bh5 vs eb.
Look BH5 will beat EB at the same speed, PERIOD. Even OCZ never meant for EB to outperform BH5. They said themselves it was created to fill the gap in the marketplace left by BH5's death. With unending volts BH5 is king and will be for some time. With limited volts in many circumstances, EB will probably be your best bet. But this is XtremeSystems, we shouldn't care about which performs better at 2.8v. ;)
Depending on the stick, the BH5 I've seen opens up around 2.9-3.3v. I've seen sticks that do 245 at 2.9v and sticks that do 240 at 3.1v. You cram enough voltage up its ass and BH5 IS YO DADDY!
Originally posted by LilGator
Quoted from Anandtech forums:
"(6) Do I need to run 1:1 memory to achieve peak performance on the Athlon 64?
Not really, given the Athlon 64 architecture and the integrated memory controller, there is no statistically significant advantage to running memory at a 200 setting versus a 166 setting at, for example, around DDR400 speeds. Even at the 200 setting the memory in an Athlon 64 system is running async. The memory speed is arrived at by using a divisor off the Athlon 64 CPU speed (i.e. a /12 divisor.) Also, unlike the Pentium 4, the Athlon 64 is not bandwidth starved; thus, the difference in memory speeds between DDR400 and DDR 500 is at most 1-2%. In other words, don't go crazy and throw away perfectly good PC3200 RAM thinking you'll see a significant boost using DDR500 for example; you won't, and your wallet will hurt."
We cross posted :p: Dont want you to miss right above your post. If that's not what anandtech meant well.... then they are wrong. But to me thats what it alludes too. Throwing up benches where your memory is running considerably slower is different.
:) Hopefully i've been understood correctly, trans am...
Texuspete, you're right on.
Really its just a matter of preference, what you like is what you get. I like BH-5, I got BH-5. Some people still like PC4400 and cranking it to 320MHz+ with 3-4-4-8. Some people prefer EB running 240-250 and not having to voltmod. Though like I mentioned earlier, all 5 on top of the ORB are using some type of Winbond memory @ 2-2-2-5...there has to be a reason ;)
agreed :toast:Quote:
Originally posted by LilGator
:) Hopefully i've been understood correctly, trans am...
Texuspete, you're right on.
Really its just a matter of preference, what you like is what you get. I like BH-5, I got BH-5. Some people still like PC4400 and cranking it to 320MHz+ with 3-4-4-8. Some people prefer EB running 240-250 and not having to voltmod. Though like I mentioned earlier, all 5 on top of the ORB are using some type of Winbond memory @ 2-2-2-5...there has to be a reason ;)
So winbond has stopped production of BH5, and now they're highly sought after and still remain the best. Is it impossible that winbond could start production again? Is BH5 made of precious metals only found on venus?? Come on, it's bits of transistors and metal. If they made it once, they can make it again. Winbond should get their act together because there is a market place for BH5 to make a return, with a storm.
I think they made BH-5 by accident, turned out it was killer stuff, but they ran out and couldn't figure out how they accidentally made it in the first place :D
At least thats what I heard somewhere, probably a myth :p: