Building New AMD64 System, Would You Go 754 or 939?

I'm putting the finishing touches on all of the components for a new high end gaming, web surfing, digital photography and general use pc.
I've been waiting, and waiting, for the 939's and have been pretty seriously disappointed with the results I've seen, especially here. And thats not even including the issues that plague all of the 939 based boards.
I can afford the 939 platform, but I cant see paying the price of an FX proc given the relatively small gains to be gotten in gaming. More and more, it seems that if you arent going to use an FX, there is little reason to go with a socket 939 based system, especially as the Newcastles seem like inadequate performers.
Part of the problem with going 754 is the lack of a clear choice in processor. The 3700 is almost $700.00 and thats just too much money for any processor. From there, you drop all the way down to the 3400 which is huge drop off in performance. At least with the 939 platform, you have the 3500 available, though granted, its a Newcastle. Still, in comparison benchmarks I've seen, its as fast as a P4EE mega dollar edition.
I will be using the best memory available, ultra high end HSF's, either an ATI X800XT PE, or BFG 6800GT Oc, and cutting no corners on this pc, but I also want good value for my money. I usually limit processor cost to about $500.00.
Given all of that, what would you choose as the motherboard and processor? And thanks for your thoughts and advice on the matter. The expertise of this forum is greatly respected on my part.


John

I'd say S754 since i haven't seen much S939 OC-ing results. And should give you more bang for your $$$$.

Well, I'd go with a Athlon 64 3400+ Clawhammer as a choice of CPU. They can be had for 400 on forums or a little over retail and have much better overclocking potential than the 3500s. If you will be purchasing high end memory, than don't expect this high end memory to be so high end once you put it in an Dual Channel Skt 939 chipset, as currently it is very difficult to overclock any ram in dual channel mode.

The performance of the Athlon 64 3500+, 512KB L2 cache, Dual-Channel S939 and the Athlon 64 3400+, 1MB L2 cache, Single-Channel S754 performs at roughly the exact same level. Since there aren't great performance differences between the Athlon 64 3500+ ($500) and Athlon 64 3400+ ($417). I'd go with an Athlon 64 3400+ ClawHammer & ASUS AV8 Deluxe

go with clawhammer 3400+ and an epox nforce3 250 board

StormPC, pkrews and others, I need your feedback please


John

John , i think 939 is a good choice.
gigabyte k8nsnxp 939
3500+ under Hyper6
2X512 corsair LLPT 1.2 or 3500Lvl 2
It's a very good rig , you should hit 2600mhz easily without mods.
only 2 soldering point (very easy) and you ll get more than 250 2/2/2/5 and 32s superpi.

StormPC = S754
PKrew = S939

;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by LilGator
StormPC = S754
PKrew = S939

;)

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Charlie?

Anyone? I need more opinions. The prevalent thought is that Newcastles suck for overclocking............and I wont drop the dollars for an FX out of principle..........so?

It all depends on what you want to do John. The s754 CL seem to be quicker in 2k1. The s939 NC are probably going to be better at things like video encoding. Look at the reviews and then decide whats most important. Both will have there strength and weaknesses

3700 is now 519 @ newegg

my system seems to be cranking and its a crappy new castle.

hell I even got a 9700 I can't OC over 337/371 and GEIL for ram

oh well that stuff was great 16 months ago

you want Video and high # crunching Iam over 12,110 MIPS.

for Gaming at high rez. even with my aging 9700pro I posted slightlyt higher frame rates than Phrew in high detail car and lobby. But got smoked on the low detail.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7752410

754 or 939 both nice but my Sandra is over 6600 MB/s on a 5:4 divider.

tuff choice if money is a big concern get a 3200+ CH otherwise get a 3500+ NC or wait for the FX-53s to come down in price.
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might concider this during gaming not benchmarking will YOU be able to see a difference between 100 FPS vs 300 FPS ?? No, the refresh rate on your monitor will be lower than the FR anyways. Second, when waiting for your computer to do your video editiing or crunching # wouldn't you rather get that work done faster and have less finger/foot taping ???

waiting on a computer to do its thing sucks I suggest you get a 939 on that alone. Benchmarking is great but if you are worried about FPS get a X800 otherwise get a 939 add some killer DC ram and be happy.

i'm not going socket 939 till pci x is on them. . unless you plan on keeping this machine for a while. go with socket 939 but if you upgrade i think like the most of us i would just get the 754 and get the 939 when pci x is out.

Go S939 since AMD just dropped prices on them, u can get a 3500+ for $345 now.

Do you guys think the FX-53 price will drop too?

They most likely won't.

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/r...age_id=3629501

I'd say go for socket 754 and 1mb clawhammer CPU.

The price doesn't justify the small gain the DC s939 has over s754, if any.

The FX will show some better performance over s754 but is highly overprized imho.

Good luck in making your choice. ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Filter
i'm not going socket 939 till pci x is on them. . unless you plan on keeping this machine for a while. go with socket 939 but if you upgrade i think like the most of us i would just get the 754 and get the 939 when pci x is out.

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Quoted for truth

PCI Express is the thing to wait for, and the 939s will have it. You want a 939 + PCI Express.

I am testing pci express and intel and it seems ok so far.

I tell you the best running mobo around, it will be the DFI 754 NF-3 when it released.
I'm personally putting my money on this board to reach the to top of 3D2001 as #1 score.

The DFI along with a OCZ booster will be the best:D

OPP

I am so not impressed with PCI express. Offers nothing in current intel platforms over AGP and only seems to limit oc's so far. Mabye in next set of vid cards might help

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
I tell you the best running mobo around, it will be the DFI 754 NF-3 when it released.
I'm personally putting my money on this board to reach the to top of 3D2001 as #1 score.

The DFI along with a OCZ booster will be the best:D

OPP

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You must have little faith that a good s939 board will come out. If the DFI 939 board oc's as well and gets good memory scores, giving equal cooling and card clocks The s754 will have a very hard time keeping up

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
I tell you the best running mobo around, it will be the DFI 754 NF-3 when it released.
I'm personally putting my money on this board to reach the to top of 3D2001 as #1 score.

The DFI along with a OCZ booster will be the best:D

OPP

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What Do You Think About Jeff using the Booster and Frying His MoBo?:flame:

Do You think It was Because The EPOX Board he used Wasn't Listed in the OCZ Mobo Specs?

Quote:

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Originally posted by pkrew
You must have little faith that a good s939 board will come out. If the DFI 939 board oc's as well and gets good memory scores, giving equal cooling and card clocks The s754 will have a very hard time keeping up

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Well I'll wait for DFI to come out with the 939 mobo.
All the other 939 mobos have problems.

This 754 DFI is a Rock:)

OPP

It almost sounds as if you have the 754 DFI. Do you OPP?

Quote:

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Originally posted by JNav89GT
I am so not impressed with PCI express. Offers nothing in current intel platforms over AGP and only seems to limit oc's so far. Mabye in next set of vid cards might help

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yah, with the current batch of cards the AGP cards will be better in general.

also PCI-e doesnt have locks, as of yet, u have to us dividers i think, so thats a step back

thirdly, im tired of all the people who consantly utter the line "yah i would get that, but i waiting for _____" , WTF just go out and buy what u want then when the new technology comes out, sell yo sh*t and buy the new technology
the blank could be 90nm, s939, doom3, HL2, PCI-e, etc. i mean by that logic i could just keep on going and say, well im not gonna buy an FX-53 s939 now, because im gonna wait for nano-technology, or optical cpu's.

grrrrrrrrrrr

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Well I'll wait for DFI to come out with the 939 mobo.
All the other 939 mobos have problems.

This 754 DFI is a Rock:)

OPP

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do you "not" have one? *wink, wink* (NDA?)

Quote:

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Originally posted by chunkylover77
It almost sounds as if you have the 754 DFI. Do you OPP?

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All I can say is that it's the best mobo I've ever used:D

Yea I have one but can't talk about it:D

OPP

Ever since one of them Abit engineers went to DFI, they're getting better and better.


How long till 939 DFI ?


You know, with all the bright minds here at XS..................it be nice to be able to buy an XS mobo, xtreme mobo that bests all others.

me drools over opps dfi 754 board

I can't wait for the 939 to hit
will get than and probably a 754 dfi and a 3700+ since they lowered them in price :)
that way maybe even stormpc will be happy :)

When is the NDA over for the DFI 754, or release date ?

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
All I can say is that it's the best mobo I've ever used:D

Yea I have one but can't talk about it:D

OPP

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Now that's a real tease.:D

someone here recently posted that he would have an engineering sample DFI 939 board very soon, and the boards would be available for sale in August if all went well.


John

Not bad for single channel

OPP

340 3D proof

OPP

Some EB 3Dproofed at 280

OPP

Looking good, OPP. :D You're using the OCZ booster I take it. How much voltage are you giving the RAM?

Quote:

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Originally posted by hallowen
What Do You Think About Jeff using the Booster and Frying His MoBo?:flame:

Do You think It was Because The EPOX Board he used Wasn't Listed in the OCZ Mobo Specs?

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They cant test everyboard, I think OCZ is verifying from their betat testers and boards they have. They cant buy and test every board. Mine will be here on the 27th, I'll be testing it on my MSI KN8.

There are quite a few not listed. there's an IC7 and IC7 max3. but not IC7-g or Max2, or and IS7 i'll be testing on those.

And only 1 epox board on the list. Im going to test on a 8rda, and 8rga, and 2 other epox boards.

They let the consumers test and verify boards, Same as like Vapochill and other companies do.

Hopefully this thing will work as promised, It's a hell of a Tester before that cheap volt mod. Or for "unmoddable" boards, I havnt seen a Vdimm mod for my MSI board yet, and it's crying out for it bad. but no one i've seen has figured out the MSI "core" chip. No data sheet for it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
All I can say is that it's the best mobo I've ever used:D

Yea I have one but can't talk about it:D

OPP

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Dam those are some nice numbers on that DFI board. Is that an unmodded board and just the OCZ booster Opp???

I had a newcastle and clawhammer. My newcastle can out bench my Clawhammer due to 200 more stable Mhz.

Yea the DFI is completely un modded, just the booster.

The v-core option will give up to 2.08V in the bios. Up to 1.9V for NB, and gives you up tp 3.16 V for mem without the booster.

I'm testing my BH-5 right now. It ran 3D yeterday at 260 without a hick up. Gunna really test it now:D

OPP

OPP so this is the magic 754 board everyone has been waiting for?

Ummm, yeah :D wow 2.08v vCore / 3.16v vMEM

Finally...

Lookin good Opp, you got a good cpu to boot?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Zeus
Lookin good Opp, you got a good cpu to boot?

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This chip is a POS week 2 2800+:D

It maxes at about 2520MHz :D

OPP

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
This chip is a POS week 2 2800+:D

It maxes at about 2520MHz :D

OPP

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Hmmm that's a NewCastle. :(
512Kb cache and 2520MHz ain't gonna get you on the frontpage i'm afraid. :D

Gonna get a better CPU like a 3700+ or so?

3700+ and this new DFI board would be killer ...

Useing .5 multipliers will get your EB memory 3D proofed at 294MHz:D

OPP

:slobber: I can't wait :D.

Also, what kind of cooling do you have on that chip OPP?

Is there no end to this mobo.
I'm testing how far she'll do 3D with FSB.

I'm at 360MHz stable with EB mem at 260 with 150 divider.

OPP

No info on the cooling?

Quote:

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Originally posted by =w=
No info on the cooling?

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I'm useing my Cascade Cooler.

OPP

Hopefully this board has full mobile support :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by LilGator
Hopefully this board has full mobile support :)

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I was gunna pick up a mobile chip:) but for testing I figured better use a desktop.

OPP

I cant wait for this board!!!

lets us know when you get a 939 DFI opp :p:

Useing a .5 mutilpier you can get your BH-5 3D stable at 280MHz.

OPP

isn't the 0.5 multiplier a but in mhz reporting

ie the divider rounds off to the higher number so it seems higher when in fact it's a bit lower ????

Yes, from that screen, it looks like about 264

Actually the .5 ran about 12 MHz higher stable then the whole numbers.
So with a whole number multi the Mushkin did 268MHz.

OPP

OPP where can I get some info on this board? Went to the DFI website and couldn't find anything.

Quote:

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Originally posted by chunkylover77
OPP where can I get some info on this board? Went to the DFI website and couldn't find anything.

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Not sure, they should be out in a couple weeks after it is approved. And from my testing, this baby is ready to hit the streets:D

I'll be posting a thread on this mobo soon. Not much more info then I've already posted in this thread though.

OPP

Looking forward to it.

daym opp, that board looks sick!

do yourself a favor and get a 3700+, they clock like gems :D

Or better yet, do us ALL a favor, and get a mobile, so we know if it'll work. :D

Can you give us a little price quote on how much it'll cost Opp? :) (if you know that is)

Might have to dump this Epox as soon as that comes out.

Is the board you have the equivalent of a Lanparty or an Infinity ? All the expensive extras/colors, or a cheap, simple solid board ? :D

Out of curiousity I went poking around for it and found a past Anandtech article detailing the DFI LANParty NF-250 board (at a show) -- so maybe this is it? ;)

http://anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1942&p=3

Dam a nice lanparty S754 sounds way to good!

Is this it OPP ? ;)

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...s/2004/dfi.jpg

"DFI will also feature nForce3 250 with its midrange Inifity series motherboards."

Yay ! :toast:

Why do i feel my heart ache at such a thing? :)
It's just a motherboard..but,oh,what a motherboard it is...:D

Quote:

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Originally posted by thebeast
Why do i feel my heart ache at such a thing? :)
It's just a motherboard..but,oh,what a motherboard it is...:D

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lol

Quote:

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Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Yea the DFI is completely un modded, just the booster.

The v-core option will give up to 2.08V in the bios. Up to 1.9V for NB, and gives you up tp 3.16 V for mem without the booster.

I'm testing my BH-5 right now. It ran 3D yeterday at 260 without a hick up. Gunna really test it now:D

OPP

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Very nice Stock voltage options, for comparison my MSI goes 1.85v cpu, No NB volt options, and 2.8 to the memory.

The board is stable to 315fsb it gets flakey past that and wont boot @ 320.

Seems like the board to have when released.

opp: you say the board will be good with the ocz ram booster.... i take it that means the dfi vdimm is nothing special (like the reported 3.2v etc)?

He said it gives up to 3.16v without the booster (must be 3.2v in BIOS)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tedinde
Dam those are some nice numbers on that DFI board. Is that an unmodded board and just the OCZ booster Opp???

I had a newcastle and clawhammer. My newcastle can out bench my Clawhammer due to 200 more stable Mhz.

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With a 9800 maybe, but not with an X800 XT.

I'm really not the S754 Nazi I have been made out to be. S939 is fast, but it's only faster than S754 if you go FX, and even then there are the problems OPP spoke of. The S939 Newcastles hold their own against the S754 Clawhammers on apps where DC is helpful (like video and audio editing) but still get beat by a similarly clocked Clawhammer most of the time, especially in games and 3DMark. They are also more expensive than their S754 counterpart.

PCI-E is another reason I am against S939 at this time. The S939 doesn't have it, and even when it does they probably won't implement it properly. Even if they implement it properly they may not have worked out the other problems with S939.

Remember when the first PCI boards came out? They were all crap. Most of them still had VLB and ALL still had EISA. They were garbage. The boards didn't really start taking off until they were being made with PCI (and later AGP) ONLY! Eventually PCI-E is going to be great, but not for awhile. All the boards that still have PCI/AGP slots will not have proper implementations of PCI-E.

Go with S940 or S754 proven platforms until PCI-E cards and proper S939 motherboards are available. You'll be a lot happier. Last time I checked they were still at the top of the ORB (S940, S754, S754, S940, S939...I believe that's the top 5).:D

Oh, and John? As you may have already guessed, I vote S754! Best bang for the buck by far.:up:

I think you convinced me to cancel my 3500+ order :rotf:
I'll swap into a 3200/3400 CH CG and wait for the DFI.