sapphire relabeling 9800 xt to 9800 pro!?

yea, topic says it all.

in case this doesn't belong here - any mod please move it to where you see it fit (gen. hw or stuff, dunno):

i've seen a couple threads regarding this lately. it seems that atm sapphire is relabeling 9800 xt cards to be sold as 9800 pro's with ddr2. it would seem it's something like what happened with those 1700dlt3c's. demand for the lower end product surpasses the production capabilities, so higher end stuff is relabeled to meet the demand.

so far it's only been reported for sapphire 9800 pro cards having 256mb of ddr2 memory. i've seen shots of cards with the exact same layout of the 9800 xt just with a slightly different hs (all shiny) and - of course they have a 9800 pro bios flashed instead of the original xt bios. ppl have been able to flash a regular ati or sapphire 9800 xt bios on those cards and had the full working overdrive stuff plus the xt clockrates, etc.. for just about 290-300 euro compared to ~400 euros for a "real" 9800 xt. now that's what i call a bargain :slobber: :D
here's a shot of one such card, sold as 9800 pro /w 256 mb ddr2

http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx...036resized.jpg
image ripped and resized from cyrusthevirus @ forumdeluxx.de. here's the actual link to the thread (just to be pc and all, btw it's in german...)

any similar reports supporting this 'rumour' available? the very first card to be found like this was reported by a french guy. comments appreciated! i think i found my next vc :D

Edit: Nevermind, went back and reread what you said. Interesting.

The premium for 256MB makes it a risky venture for many that would might otherwise opt for the 128.... interesting indeed though.

yea i'm dicing it around aswell ... not sure whether i'll grab one or just wait for the r420 (itching, damn) :D

shade, what did you want to write? curious - and i'm not easily offended :) (just in case ehehe)

Hm, im ordering a sapphire 9800 pro on monday
Tho its to risky for me to buy and 256mb model in hope of having a relabeld XT

well if it isn't you can just send it back.. onyl have to pay the shipping - and well.. we can live with the risk of that, eh? ;)

holly crap..


that's a 9800XT platform. That's not a 9800pro 256mb. Nice find, sky.

picture posted by newegg

Quote:

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Originally posted by sky
well if it isn't you can just send it back.. onyl have to pay the shipping - and well.. we can live with the risk of that, eh? ;)

---

we can, yeah.. but can he? :D


first post :eek:


nice find, that :)

Holy §§§§ing §§§§!

Someone has to buy one these from newegg and OC it!

Well a easy way to check if theres a 2,5 ns memory on it or 2,8 ns

I can't actually
I can't even aford one now as I recently killed a SE@pro and been doing a little saving getting my new sapphire

but hey, it will clock better anyway as I have a chance there is some hynix mem on it :toast:

Wellcome to the sickness mrplow !!

:beer:

Very interesting. It certainly looks like a XT pcb. Has anyone taken off the hsf and looked at the core.

i've been told it's r360 - and that would make it CHING!
also, i said earlier, guys flashing the original sapphire 9800 xt bios onto this card had the full overdrive stuff working for them, monitoring and all. and i'd take it this won't work with your average 9800 pro even after flashing the bios since that card just doesn't have the parts necessary to do it.

Any reports on the clock speeds these can attain with the XT BIOS?

Does it basically match the XT?

Err, Sapphire 9800 Pro 256MB costs 20€ more than Hercules 9800XT, so whats the point?
:D

Quote:

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Originally posted by The Stilt
Err, Sapphire 9800 Pro 256MB costs 20€ more than Hercules 9800XT, so whats the point?
:D

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Not in US. It is around $100 less than the XT




So Newegg lists the memory speed at 380Mhz w/DDR II

And the real 9800XT is 412Mhz w/ DDR

Is it the same memory? What exactly is DDR II? Does it perform worse than DDR on the XT? I seem to remember that the 256mb Pro overclocked alot worse than the 128Mb versions.

it still costs 80$ more than a 9800pro, but nice find!

someone needs to find some answers here... I just killed a saph 9800p 128 last night.... I might have to pick one of these up and find out...

Well not long ago I had that same card.... it was a Gigabyte R9800Pro 256MB DDRII.... had the same HSF and clocked to about 440/390.... I'm not sure about the memory though... 2.5ns or 2.8ns....

Quote:

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Originally posted by The Stilt
Err, Sapphire 9800 Pro 256MB costs 20€ more than Hercules 9800XT, so whats the point?
:D

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eh.. now i am interested in the link to that shop.
as far as i know, the cheapest 9800 xt was like 365 euros for a gigacube 9800 xt/tv/dvi, while that sapphire 9800 pro 256mb ddr2 sells for 289 euros (-76 euros), and the cheapest 9800 pro 128mb (sapphire) is like 199 euros (another 90 euros less). ehhh.. and for guillemot/hercules 9800 xt - cheapest i've seen that was 373 euros.
source: geizhals.at

mind sharing your source? :D

What we need is a compairison between this card and the old 9800pro. The XT is quicker clock for clock esp in 3d03

so this is what the card (with her default 98oo pro bios) shows up with in the control panel - r360 (xt) with temp control.

http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/R360.jpg

so i won't know for sure until i get one. i'm gonna order one on monday and see what i'll get :D. if it's a "normal" 9800 pro.. well too bad it has to be returned, if it's a 9800 xt .. go figure... :D

pkrew... yea i'm still waiting for someone to post results with this card. with the writing on the chip and that stuff showing in the control panel, i take it it HAS to be real.

someone put one under cascade phase change, if you can get ~620-640 then its a 9800xt core,

heheheh

Quote:

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Originally posted by blinky
someone put one under cascade phase change, if you can get ~620-640 then its a 9800xt core,

heheheh

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This is not correct. The Pro cores OC the same as proven by macci with his 9800SE @ 660mhz.

so anyone order one yet? my finger is feeling itchy... wants to click on the buy button... :)

i've spend a good deal of this afternoon searching for pics of 256mb 9800-type cards. and i'll be spending part of this evening dissecting pics of normal 9800 pros (256mb), real 9800 xts and these type of say 9800 pro-xts ;) (once i'm through ordering a digicam with my dad). based on that analysis i'll either buy one tomorrow or not. atm i'm ~80% sure i'll get one :D

Yay! We may have our
http://humaneleague.com/images/Guinea%20pig.jpg!
:D

Quote:

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Originally posted by sky
i've spend a good deal of this afternoon searching for pics of 256mb 9800-type cards. and i'll be spending part of this evening dissecting pics of normal 9800 pros (256mb), real 9800 xts and these type of say 9800 pro-xts ;) (once i'm through ordering a digicam with my dad). based on that analysis i'll either buy one tomorrow or not. atm i'm ~80% sure i'll get one :D

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please post your conclusion after you're done so i can determine if i'm going to buy one or not... thanks!

:toast:

btw

i was looking at newegg and the oem one is 256megs of ddrII while the retail one is just 256megs of ddr...

is this a typo or is the oem the one to get?

NewEgg is famous for typo's lol

i've seen people from other forums with the same results...

Splitting the price of a new vid card with my brother...STRONGLY considering this card now. If we do decide to get one of these, I'm giving him my 9700 Pro, and putting a hurtful OC on this relabeled xt :D


Got a chance to get one of these for $212...is it worth it if I have a 9700 Pro that can OC to 400/700 at stock voltage?

Is this idea worth it ??

I have gigabyte 9800pro 128mb @ 439/371 stable. If I switch to relabelled 256mb xt version, do you think it is worth it??

Quote:

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Ok, some important facts about the card I received...

Board PN: 109-A1880-10 (XT board)
RAM chips: HY5DU573222 (XT RAM, 4 to a side)
Core chip stamping: R360
Fan connector type and location is same as XT version (3-pin on card edge)

Must be a 9800XT with a 9800Pro BIOS? :-) The serial number sticker says its 9800Pro, but it sure doesn't add up. Now, who's man enough to flash it with an XT bios? Damn, this could be one expensive paper-weight. Seriously, I compared the features visually to the following 9800XT link and the parts and layout seem to be identical to some 9800XT cards including RAM, core, and PCB.

BTW: The included game bundle does NOT match the newegg pictures. You get Tomb Raider, not RTCW & SOFII.

Runs great so far as a 9800Pro :-) No problems.

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the above was taken from a newegg review

this looks VERY promising

well i just bought one :confused: ;)



in several days i'll let all my fellow XS buds know whats up :D

We eagerly await the results. Some of the reviews at newegg were quite negative regarding heat and artifacting, but I believe at least some of those folks are newbs that did not have proper airflow/cooling setup in the first place....

Be sure to let us know what cooling/setup u use. Thanks!

BTW Bobdole, have I seen u on some Halo servers recently?

well to cut it short - i just bought one :D - will probably get the card delivered on thursday. i'll post a little longer.. ehh reply later today as i'm basically out the door.

oh.. i do NOT know whether this is the same for all the 256mb ddr2 9800pro cards out there. so far i've only heard about the sapphire, but i found the pics of the 9800 pro 256mb ddr2 built by powercolor to look almost the same as the sapphire layout in question - this is no garantuee, of course - so maybe we'll find another guinea pig for that :D

i ordered a sapphire 9800 pro w. 256mb ddr2 - we'll see :D

I'm waiting to see results before I jump out in front of my skin and buy one...looks like a sweet freakin card though.

It is 100% a 9800xt i have compared all the pics i could find whit my own 9800XT and even the mem is the same!!

Oh man....
me "add to cart" finger be itchin'

Nurse, call the doctor. This man has the upgrade virus.

LOL

I have it in my cart about ten times now:D

Waiting to hear overclocking results from Sky and bobdole.

"This is not correct. The Pro cores OC the same as proven by macci with his 9800SE @ 660mhz."


im trying to understand whats so exciting? you can get a normal 128mb 9800 pro for less and just overclock it as good. and is 256mb worth nearly $100 more when by the time games need that ram youll have upgraded again? pfffffff

that's what i'm thinking ^ :( Yay, we're saving $100 from the $400+ card ... but I still think the $200-220 9800 Pro is just as good right now...

I don' curr what you guys say...

Just bought one and am looking forward to it; should be here Wed. or Thur. :D
If other people's results aren't great, I'll send it back. But its still a 256MB XT for $315...seems worth it to me.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
"This is not correct. The Pro cores OC the same as proven by macci with his 9800SE @ 660mhz."

im trying to understand whats so exciting? you can get a normal 128mb 9800 pro for less and just overclock it as good. and is 256mb worth nearly $100 more when by the time games need that ram youll have upgraded again? pfffffff

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LOL

Thats not even close to being a representative example. You are talking about one of the top overclockers out there who happened to find an amazing piece of hardware(maybe not;)). He could probably clock an 8500 to 500mhz;)

And with this card we are not just talking about the potential core speed. If it does in fact have the same ns memory as an XT, then the difference between it and a 9800Pro is obvious.

You don't see a 9800Pro clocking 450mhz on the memory now do we. There isn't a single 9800Pro card on the front page. Seem's pretty clear to me.

Quote:

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Originally posted by G H Z
You don't see a 9800Pro clocking 450mhz on the memory now do we. There isn't a single 9800Pro card on the front page. Seem's pretty clear to me.

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The memory is a seperate issue entirely. We know this clocks higher.

But since we have seen a Pro core that high, that tells us that obviously they have the same top end potential.

the xts ram overclocks a bit higher, but is it worth paying for another 300 marks? doubt it

All I know is it has great potential, is hungry for Vmods, and wont be such a big hurt in the pocket book after I sell my 9700 Pro.
Also, the relabeled XT is the same price I payed for my 9700 Pro a year ago, so its a good upgrade for a user that has a similar setup/is in a similar situation to me (if there are others, lol).

edit: Nice GF3Ti500 score ti4200, I'll have to see if I can match it :D

Ya sell off all of those outdated cards and maybe you can afford a downpayment on an XT;)

Hey,

Whatever floats yer boat.

If my 9600XT can't handle Doom ]|[ then i might be opting for the 9800pro from Asus, but now I may see whats up with this Sapphire one.

~Bob

Quote:

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Originally posted by Riska
It is 100% a 9800xt i have compared all the pics i could find whit my own 9800XT and even the mem is the same!!

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yup, well i could post a bunch of pictures of the sapphire 9800 xt and point out the corresponding parts on that 9800 pro i posted earlier, but that wouldn't add much to this thread - just a few more kb... anyway my findings are exactly the same as yours, riska. even the core is the same - ppl have removed the hs and found the labeling on the chip to say 360 - so that's pretty obviously a downlabeled xt.

the only bugging thought is why is it that sapphire - and maybe other brands - relabeled a bunch of xt's to 9800pros? were those cards unable to reach the specified clock- and ramspeeds? it might be. i've read a few statements by people who already have these cards claiming that the card starts artifacting at around 405 core and whatever on the ram. what should be noted before cancelling an order or starting to weep :D is that these people have only used the 9800 pro bios that came with these downlabeled cards.
so it might very well be possible to eliminate the problem with lacking ;) clockspeeds by flashing the real bios. i don't quite remember what other recent lower-end ati-card it was that profited huge from flashing a higher cards bios. i suspect that the 9800p bios uses somewhat different timings and maybe different voltages for core and ram than the (full) xt-type cards do. also to be noted is that none of those people tried to use other methods of cooling than the stock heatsink, which in effect is smaller and probably less sophisticated than the original xt-hs. most of the ramchips are not covered by any type of heatsink on those 9800 pro cards - and well it's ddr2 who's supposed to run hotter (or is this a misinformation on my part - thought this was a big issue for gf fx type cards) than your average bga / tsop ram.

i for once am still looking forward to my card and expect to get the date if delivery tomorrow (let's just hope it gets here before the friday - i might be to paris from friday to monday, so no testing then :( )
and as it's an xt card, all the xt-vmods should be working - and we know what macci got out of an 9800se (another supposedly downlabeled card) :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez
holly crap..


that's a 9800XT platform. That's not a 9800pro 256mb. Nice find, sky.

picture posted by newegg

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There was one of those in the Newegg refurb section for $275 yesterday

Well, the 256mb 9800 Pro was never a big seller, so my guess is they just switched those production lines over to the XT PCBs and are downlabeling from there.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Silversink
There was one of those in the Newegg refurb section for $275 yesterday

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aka the broken section.

I'm always afraid that the refub stuff might be cards (espically video cards) or boards that were returned cause they did not overclock well, or returned LCD's with too many dead pixels, etc...


....although if the refurb unit is truely "Broken" you could RMA with newegg on a refurb and 9 out of 10 times you'll get new product back in exchange.....but you're out shipping thus any savings...

are we sure that they dont have 128mb versions also?
i have found a picture of a supposed sapphire 9800 pro 128mb that looks identical to that pic.
http://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/60/c4/a3_1_b.JPG

Quote:

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Originally posted by sky
yup, well i could post a bunch of pictures of the sapphire 9800 xt and point out the corresponding parts on that 9800 pro i posted earlier, but that wouldn't add much to this thread - just a few more kb... anyway my findings are exactly the same as yours, riska. even the core is the same - ppl have removed the hs and found the labeling on the chip to say 360 - so that's pretty obviously a downlabeled xt.

the only bugging thought is why is it that sapphire - and maybe other brands - relabeled a bunch of xt's to 9800pros? were those cards unable to reach the specified clock- and ramspeeds? it might be. i've read a few statements by people who already have these cards claiming that the card starts artifacting at around 405 core and whatever on the ram. what should be noted before cancelling an order or starting to weep :D is that these people have only used the 9800 pro bios that came with these downlabeled cards.
so it might very well be possible to eliminate the problem with lacking ;) clockspeeds by flashing the real bios. i don't quite remember what other recent lower-end ati-card it was that profited huge from flashing a higher cards bios. i suspect that the 9800p bios uses somewhat different timings and maybe different voltages for core and ram than the (full) xt-type cards do. also to be noted is that none of those people tried to use other methods of cooling than the stock heatsink, which in effect is smaller and probably less sophisticated than the original xt-hs. most of the ramchips are not covered by any type of heatsink on those 9800 pro cards - and well it's ddr2 who's supposed to run hotter (or is this a misinformation on my part - thought this was a big issue for gf fx type cards) than your average bga / tsop ram.

i for once am still looking forward to my card and expect to get the date if delivery tomorrow (let's just hope it gets here before the friday - i might be to paris from friday to monday, so no testing then :( )
and as it's an xt card, all the xt-vmods should be working - and we know what macci got out of an 9800se (another supposedly downlabeled card) :D

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Have you received your card yet sky?

The 9500 128MB non-Pro gained the ability of high overclocking (along with immense performane due to opening more pipelines) when modded to a 9700. Isn't there a similar softmod for the 9800 Pro to XT? If not, wouldn't flashing the board with an XT BIOS be the same thing if the GPU, PCB, RAM (its not ddr2...same ram on XTs) are exactly the same?

With an XT BIOS (and good cooling :D), I bet these things can overclock just as well as an XT.

well boys i just bought her. got it off ebay, NIB, sapphire radeon 9800pro 128mb, pics show the xt, seller says he can assure me that the card in the box is exactly the same as the pics so hopefully ive goy myself a 9800xt for $250

once i get it im gonna submit it to some voltmods, stick it in my system, and hopefully by the time i get it my a/c unit whil finally arrive and i can get my chiller up and running, then we'll see if this puppy can really fly or not.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Shade00
Well, the 256mb 9800 Pro was never a big seller, so my guess is they just switched those production lines over to the XT PCBs and are downlabeling from there.

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Along with the fact that the 9800 XT hasn't been the best seller as well, especially now with the availability of sub-$220 9800 Pro's. Sapphire is most likely attempting to rid their R350/R360 stockpile to set up for R420 - which seems to be just about ready to enter market (only holding off to not tread on XT sales).

Just ordered this thing. Will do some testing on Thursday when FedEx brings her by.

Cant wait

I still dont get why people pay $150 more for the 9800xt over a 9800 pro, their money though. Once the r420 comes out, I expect the price gap between 9800xt and 9800 pro to shrink alot.

9800xt=$250
9800pro=$180
9700 pro=$150
9600xt=$100-120
ti4200=$50 :D ;) :banana:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gogeta
Have you received your card yet sky?

The 9500 128MB non-Pro gained the ability of high overclocking (along with immense performane due to opening more pipelines) when modded to a 9700. Isn't there a similar softmod for the 9800 Pro to XT? If not, wouldn't flashing the board with an XT BIOS be the same thing if the GPU, PCB, RAM (its not ddr2...same ram on XTs) are exactly the same?

With an XT BIOS (and good cooling :D), I bet these things can overclock just as well as an XT.

---

nay, that fkn shop i bought it at didn't even give me a shipping date yet :(. my estimate was that i'd be getting this card thursday (tomorrow) but alas i haven't gotten a notice from them yet, i doubt that will happen. so next stop friday (hopefully). the card is paid, so i'm just waiting for it to arrive... argh anticipation...
i'll post whenever i get a msg from then that it's been shipped

hell yah, newegg rocks it is out for delivery now!

sweet

<3 newegg

man, just returned home from work.. the digicam that was due today wasn't delivered, but guess what.. the eagle has landed. got a nice red sapphire 9800 pro 256mb ddr2 lying next to me :D

so yay, gotta rebuild my system (broke it down for wc-preparations) using the slk900u for the moment (doh rehooking that is a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:. will report later on what i got here. just from the looks it is exactly 100% the same as the one in the pic i posted in the first msg in this thread... woot woot :D

but man the box it came in is like SMALL.. wtf.. my old radeon came in a box 3 times that size. the 9800 comes in a box 24.5x15.5x4.5 cm... (~10x6x2") pfff


so far i noticed that some of the chips are missing the writings on them or those are barely readable. well on those that i could read the following was written:

back side ram chips:
du573222
m-25 332a
7L52146nu

front side ram chips:
du573222
m-25 334a
7L53122nu

notice the difference in chip-"names" from m-25 334a on front (the 2 i could see) and m-25 332a on the rear side. from the rest of that text i think i can safely assume it's hynix ram. so now i'll have to go looking for what type of ram exactly that designates.

also i just saw some guy going 430 gpu and 380 ram with his card of this type after flashing the original ati 9800xt bios - sapphire and hercules xt bios wouldn't let him flash it onto his card. he says that the xt bios gave him additional ~20 mhz on the core and ~10 mhz on the ram. so basically he was able to run it at default xt speeds before and now can move it up - using the default cooling.

what about sapphire 9800 pro 256mb ddrII with 16*16mb chips is possible to be 9800 Xt downgrade???

Quote:

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Originally posted by sky
also i just saw some guy going 430 gpu and 380 ram with his card of this type after flashing the original ati 9800xt bios - sapphire and hercules xt bios wouldn't let him flash it onto his card. he says that the xt bios gave him additional ~20 mhz on the core and ~10 mhz on the ram. so basically he was able to run it at default xt speeds before and now can move it up - using the default cooling.

---

Awesome, I should be able to get pretty good results with some watercooling then :D Can't wait for my card to get hear...I need to hurry up and chop up some ramsinks...

/me gives the evil eye to some helpless copper

Before XT flash...412/365 gave me slight artifacts...went ahead and flashed it...runs 412/365 without any artifacts and before the max I could OC to was 420/360 (highest without artifacts)...after flash...480/377 (without artifacts)...using stock cooling and no ramsinks...

ALso gained 60+ marks by just doing the flash over the Pro default score...

well i got mine in today as well, its everything i believed it was supposed to be so far.

http://www.andrewrocks.com/uploads/9800xtlarge.JPG

http://www.andrewrocks.com/uploads/9800xtbacklarge.JPG

sorry about the HUGE images :(

the memory says hynix on them

Quote:

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Originally posted by glock19owner
Before XT flash...412/365 gave me slight artifacts...went ahead and flashed it...runs 412/365 without any artifacts and before the max I could OC to was 420/360 (highest without artifacts)...after flash...480/377 (without artifacts)...using stock cooling and no ramsinks...

ALso gained 60+ marks by just doing the flash over the Pro default score...

---

Is this with the exact same Sapphire card we are talking about here?


Hey bobdole can you report back on your overclocking results when you have 'em?

:toast:

well i just ran 3dmark03, and i scored 6235

core @ 425
mem @ 365

fsb @ 230 x10.5=
2420mhz

cas222 i forgot the last one

by the time i got to mother nature, it was starting to artifact

little white dots

ran all the tests, my computer locked up before it finished
it could be my fsb @ 230...

yea ok. some kwik results...

highest i've tried so far is 415/375 - artifact free with default 9800pro bios :D - yea seems i picked a gem as i've seen enough reports of ppl getting to max 400 hehe...

oh.. i didn't reassemble my benching rig (don't have a holddown for my nb yet - noticed that while being halfway through reinstalling the slk900u - doper ;) )... so i just swapped my old ati 8500bba from my main work rig for the 9800pro. btw my main work rig is built like this:
xp1800+ palomino @ default 1533mhz (133x11.5)
msi kt7 266 pro2 ru
3x512mb infineon pc2100 cl2 @ 5-2-2-2
plus some other cards including audigy and a pinnacle thingy

well that rig isn't built for speed and a 1.5 year old install of win2k won't help either... lol anyway got 5.2k '03, 11.x '01 and 30k am3 @stock. no §§§§ i almost soiled my pants laughing seeing those numbers ;).
my benchy rig with its 9600tx (yup some oem card, no xt) got 4.4k '03, 15.2k '01 and 39.8k am3. so with this 9800 it should be flying, just waiting for my custom-made holddowns to arrive so i can give it a real go with the whole system on water (+ maybe my chillers virgin run on a system).

k. but so far this card looks like a keeper :D giving better than default xt-performance with it's smaller than xt-gpu-heatsink and no ramsinks at all. just a 120' fan @7v blowing towards the backside of the card.


on the ram issue - i still don't know what the last 4 pieces of the ram id stand for (those that differ between ram on front and back of the card), but the rest is clear now after browsing the hynix.com page:

HY5DU573222 AFM-25 332A
HY = hynix
5D = ddr sdram (wtf no ddr2? 5Q would be gddr2 - might have to look again ;)
U = vdd / vddq 2.5v
57 = 256m 4k refresh/32ms
32 = x32 (8x32)
2 = 2 banks
2 = SSTL_2
A = 2nd gen.
FM = MCP FBGA
25 = 400 mhz / 800 mbps/pin

regarding the vdd / vddq, the latest revision pdf states that hydu573222afm runs vdd / vddq 2.8v, min vdd / vddq = 2.55v, max vdd / vddq = 2.95v - absolute max: 3.6v
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/smilies/devil2.gif
tmax 125°C, tmin -55°C.. blabla


@bobdole
did you flash an xt-bios on it (preferably original ati as sapphire-xt and hercules-xt are said to not be flashable onto this one)

Is that a typo?

Only 400 core?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Soulburner
Is that a typo?

Only 400 core?

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no it isn't i've seen quite a few reports today giving the 400 +/- 5
mhz core speed for cards with the original pro bios.

Quote:

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Originally posted by sky
on the ram issue - i still don't know what the last 4 pieces of the ram id stand for (those that differ between ram on front and back of the card), but the rest is clear now after browsing the hynix.com page:

HY5DU573222 AFM-25 332A

---

The 332 is the date that the chips were manufactured - Week 32, Year 2003.

-So the next question would be where do stock XT's typically overclock to?

Similar to your results Sky and bobdole?

-And a stock 9800 Pro in comparison?

i am an owner of brand new 9800XT

so i took off the heatsink to discover:
a. they use paste! alright !! :)
b. the heatsink has an area raised up just a little bit so it makes better contact with the die.
c. the printing on the chips state that i have a R360, stepping 0343

here are the numbers:
R360
215R9RBKA11F
N03694.00
0343AA
TAIWAN


:slobber: :toast: :cool: :p: :banana: :eek:

so this must mean, all they are are just 9800xt with a new bios and heatsink slapped on! awesome:D

Yes it is a 9800xt core this one!
Nearley the same orinting on mine core to!

results please

Quote:

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Originally posted by Speed_Mechanic
The 332 is the date that the chips were manufactured - Week 32, Year 2003.

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thanks for clearing that up.. i was starting to get worried ;) - funny thing that they used different sets of ram on front and back - or to put it better - that they used different dates for the front and backside. would've thought it's either all one week or all different weeks and not front week x and back week y.

oh well..
i ran atitool 0.17 testing for max core and ram.
max core was 420, max ram was 399.60 - just combined wouldn't fly.. strange tool that is ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by althes
results please

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yup. and i'm really interested in '03 results - regarding clock rates. what's the max you can run 3d2k3 without errors of any sort, either artifacting or others.
am3 always ran higher clocks for me than 3d2k3 - dunno about 2k1 tho.. been a while. i tried running '03 at my - so far - max clocks for am3 (414/375) and it would give me some weird biggo triangles... pff time for the xt-bios i guess or some improved cooling.

watch out sky, the heatsink lies directly on the die

if the heatsink is a seesaw, the die is the fulcrum

that raised area sticks up a little bit too much

tell me if your hsf wobbles a little bit

running 3dmark03 with 9800 xt bios :)

over drive works!!:cool:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2126256

i am placing exactly where i ought too

sweet!!!

thanks for the heads-up. i'll check the heatsink on mine tomorrow - flashing her will also be done tomorrow. btw which bios did you flash? ati 9800xt.256.Hynix.25.bin? seems the most promising to me as the other ati-bios' are for samsung ram.

hm my '03-score improved to 5524 @408/365 (still pro bios) using my work rig - see list of items on page 3. and i'm hot as hell wanting to see overdrive working and that tempmonitoring stuff :D. the heatsink on the core does get quite warm pushing the clocks upwards.

what improvement in clocks did you get after flashing the xt-bios? should be noticeable i think. most reports are in the +20 range regarding core speeds.


@shidokanjohn
whoops almost missed to reply to your question. to be honest, i've not heard of any xt using more than 8 chips, so i think it isn't all that likely to find a 16x16 card being a downgraded or speedbinned xt. i've seen a few shots of 256mb 98pros with more than 8 chips back when the 98pro was released, but did loose track of them after that and as i said, i haven't seen an xt-type card with that many ramchips either.

yah that is the correct bios i used

my max overclock with atitool, and with out artifacts was around 407 on the core, not sure on the memory maybe >375ish.

now it seems max oc on the core is 416ish

yah, low clocks eh?


its the hsf, its POS the finish on mine is crap. It sucks at getting rid of heat. I think that is what my problem is. The front is shiny though.

Im pretty sure that That is the Heatsink that is put on all oem systembuild 9800pros,xts because i got a dell pulled 9800pro and yes it is a PRO, and it came with that heatsink, i swapped it for my watercooling did some Vmods (vgpu,Vddr) and now this puppy flies 500core:400mem. I hope the relabled xt i just purchased can beat that, it better be able to if i vmod it, has anyone tried anything but the stock cooler and has anyone used ramsinks?

whats a stock 9800xt usually oc to?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Semper Fi
whats a stock 9800xt usually oc to?

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450-500

what is the average overclock with some vmods and better cooling, like watercooling.

I'm really thinking about this as I have a chance to swap out my 465/380 vmodded 9800Pro for this for free. But I have to decide in 2 days.

A few questions:

1. Is it just about a sure thing I can flash it to a true XT?

2. Will the 256MB of memory help me at all in 3dmark?

3. Will this core do better than my 9800Pro already @ 465MHz

4. Are the vmods for this exactly like the 9800XT?

I really want to see some vmodding results and a photo of it without the HSF as I'd be able to see if my Alpha I've made for my 9800Pro will fit or not.

Wow...I really hope this card naturally goes +460 core.

Hollywood, I can't speak for everybody but I can tell you my card is a 9800 XT through and through. Its been on for about 8 hours, numerous benchmarks since I flashed the XT bios on it. Right now its @ 438 and @ 391.

This is no different from a 9800 XT card you could buy.

keeping it cold is the only problem i have

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2126256
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7598607

Quote:

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Originally posted by b0bd0le
Hollywood, I can't speak for everybody but I can tell you my card is a 9800 XT through and through. Its been on for about 8 hours, numerous benchmarks since I flashed the XT bios on it. Right now its @ 438 and @ 391.

This is no different from a 9800 XT card you could buy.

keeping it cold is the only problem i have

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2126256
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7598607

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Could you please link me to the BIOS??? As I'll purchase the card if I know I have a solid BIOS.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Hollywood
Could you please link me to the BIOS??? As I'll purchase the card if I know I have a solid BIOS.

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i dunno, where bob got his bios. here is where i got the one bobdole and i have been talking about earlier - ati 9800xt hynix-25. it's pretty much at the bottom of that list, right above the last divider - i think it was the 10th from the bottom up...

regarding your questions

1) well nothing but death in life is 100% sure, but so far i've only seen ppl get 256mb (ddr2) 9800pros that have this exact same xt-layout, posted here a couple of times. just remember so far i only know of sapphire cards to be like this - don't know about other brands. and if it is this layout and you remove the heatsink and find a r360 core - then you know you should be able to flash the xt-bios (99.99%) ;)

2) 256mb might not be a big help in 3d2k1, and maybe even in 3d2k3, but it should at least give you some more ressources for games to fall back on.

3) dunno, slightly different core than a real 9800pro, with vmods i guess it should be possible - no garantuee, of course

4) they should be, as it is a 9800 xt card, same layout, same core, same ram - so i don't see why not :D

http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/bios/AT...56.Hynix25.bin

that is the one i used

flashrom:http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/bios/flashrom217.zip
bootdisk:http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

the command i used was:
A:\flashrom -p -f 0 biosname.bin

-p tells flashrom to write bios
-f forces flashrom to write the bios, thus changing the ASIC ID to a 9800 XT

the zero is the device number

also, remember this is in dos so you won't have long filenames, they'll be truncated and look like ati.9~1.bin or something like that

Cards arriving in the morning... Ill have results up tomorrow night.

i cant wait to see someone supercool, or atleast watercool one of these. hopefully my card arrives soon.

could all of u that got a downgradet 9800xt please post a direct link to the cart they bourgt.

dont wana buy the wronge cart :(

Thanks for the reply Sky and Bobdole...I'm really considering this one...:D

It sounds like you guys got winners. Anyone try 3d03 vs a pro same clock rate. As far as volt mods, I'd probably use the mods for the XT considering the cards have the XT pcb. I imagine the overclock would be variable, just like any XT.

My card will hopefully arrive tonight, otherwise will be here by Friday. I'll be watercooling and flashing to XT right away, and will get benches up as soon as possible. One thing - I wont be able to OC the memory until I get some ramsinks made...but the core is going to receive some punishment :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gogeta
My card will hopefully arrive tonight, otherwise will be here by Friday. I'll be watercooling and flashing to XT right away, and will get benches up as soon as possible. One thing - I wont be able to OC the memory until I get some ramsinks made...but the core is going to receive some punishment :D

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yea that's a good way of going at it. yesterday night i had my little missus run the atitool to find the highest gpu and ram speeds without artifacts. i had the tool start at 200/200 for both and let it work. the core went to 420/200 in about 25mins of testing including heatup phases built into that tool. same for the ram - that test went to 200/399 in a little less time. i locked the core at 200 when testing the ram and vice versa - so clocking one wouldn't interfere with the other (that's where this 200/399 etc are coming from, in case somebody wonders :) )
and in that whole hour i didn't check for temperatures on my card. i only touched the hs and the rams once, some minutes after a short bench in '03 with 389/347 and even then you could feel the heat the core and rams had generated during the test. and as the rams are completely on their own putting some heatsinks on those is a must for higher clocks. so atm i'm dicing around flashing the xt-bios straight, or first lowering the xt-bios default clocks and then flash it to keep the card a happy camper until i finally watercool it (whenever my damn custom holddowns arrive grrr).