[News] AMD to announce Vega tonight [Update: Vega Computex Announcement]

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphic...e-vega-tonight

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AMD will announce Vega at its 2017 Financial Analyst Day and of course none other than Raja Koduri will share a few more details with us.

The call and the event takes place later today at May 16, 2017 1:00 PM Pacific Time, 4:00 PM Eastern Time and 11 PM Central European time and will be webcast.

It is not roses, roses though, as Fudzilla has learned that Vega has experienced some delays and issues, and we are working to get a few more details. AMD has committed to ship the Vega first HBM 2 GPU before the end of the second quarter, but even if this happens, the numbers will be limited and its performance might not be as great as the fanboys expected. From what we know, Vega won't be able to beat the Geforce GTX 1080 Ti or Titan.

The original plan was to launch Vega earlier, but since this is highly complicated silicon, things tend to go bad. Let?s not underestimate the cost of HBM 2 memory as well as shortages.

AMD will have the following people at the call so expect to see the full company?s overview and a bit more about the desktop, notebook and server strategy too.

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http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74...rol-analystday


AMD Confirms Radeon RX Vega Soft-launch at Computex

Well, about damn time.

But this announcement should have came immediately after the 1080 Ti launch. If without a launch, news of a cheaper alternative would restrict how much Nvidia further saturates the enthusiast market.

I'm prepared for another PR fiasco like the Capsaicin event

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

I'm prepared for another PR fiasco like the Capsaicin event

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lol that was absolutely terrible

Fingers crossed, I really want this to have a meaning.

For the time being it's like they are replaying a mix of Zen event and Capsaicin.

Please, at least, no VR VR VR VR bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:!

To quote Han Solo "I've got a bad feeling about this".

That article quote doesn't put things in a good light to say the least.

LOL.

Late June ( aka a few days before July comes ) for the... datacenter & HPC Vega card.
No mention at all of the consumer/gamer card.

September ? October ? "Poor volta"...

Performance shown in Sniper Elite 4... DX11 ( I remember AMD was like "we optimized for the latest and newest APIs" ) and a game that favors AMD GPUs, Vega showing 60fps... 1080 Ti doing 68fps in reviews.
Not a good indication if you ask me.

Good luck keeping the gamers off buying a 1080 Ti now.

If it is an even 60 fps it could be vsynced - which would be a rather dumb thing to do.

where are you watching or reading those???

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Originally Posted by Sparky

If it is an even 60 fps it could be vsynced - which would be a rather dumb thing to do.

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It wasn't, it went like up to 72fps, but the average for that short demo ( which could easily be not at ultra details settings like the reviews ) was around 60 - 62fps.

They are stupid in marketing their GPUs, but they're not stupid enough to do a benchmark with Vsync on ( especially when they are pushing FreeSync so hard :D )

You missed it.
Raja Kuduri's presentation of Vega... well, mostly catering to the HPC crowd

http://webcastevents.com/events/amd/...p-player-1.htm

Still live, but there's no way they'll show any gaming related benchmarks at all from now on.

Well the news was overall good. One thing to note, 13Tflops on this vega card, means 1586 or so Mhz. This means vega is REALLY clocking better. Thats pretty encouraging.
But also, we should be ready for a card that will be faster than the 1080 but overall slower than the Ti. And it may come only in summer.

http://pro.radeon.com/en-us/vega-frontier-edition/

Official specs shown.

64 CUs confirmed, 90GP/s fillrate

@vario

considering the HBM2 supply, and AMD's financial dept's needs for profit, and given that from the looks of it, the area where the Vega performs well is... HPC / Datacenter, I'm pretty sure they'll want to sell as many HPC Vega cards as possible before releasing cards for the gamers for a much lower price and profit per card...

I'd say late September AT BEST for consumer card availability ( and at what numbers ? )

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

http://pro.radeon.com/en-us/vega-frontier-edition/

Official specs shown.

64 CUs confirmed, 90GP/s fillrate

@vario

considering the HBM2 supply, and AMD's financial dept's needs for profit, and given that from the looks of it, the area where the Vega performs well is... HPC / Datacenter, I'm pretty sure they'll want to sell as many HPC Vega cards as possible before releasing cards for the gamers for a much lower price and profit per card...

I'd say late September AT BEST for consumer card availability ( and at what numbers ? )

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Well, tbh, while a bit of a letdown, i was expecting vega from april. Summer is almost here, and in the summer i barely play any games.And if they will come out only in september, we will already know something about volta. And it may even be worth waiting until volta launches. I buy cards in 2-3years so no biggie. But people will lose their :banana::banana::banana::banana: if vega aint here before summer ;)

Everytime the GPU department holds a presentation the AMD stock falls and people are being let down.

If only we had a fully integrated and analyzed global market, it would've been very interesting to see the orders being placed at this moment, is the GTX 1070, 1080, 1080 ti sales rate going up ?

Launching the "announced" HPC card in late June ( see July :D ) leaves little hope for let's say an August or mid September launch for the gaming part.
People have been holding off since... RX 580 to buy a new VGA, they were expecting to be able to get a Radeon Vega RX in May... in the worst case scenario, in June... not in August at the very best.

Ok, i think i have found a smoking gun.
From AMD`s Vega Frontier page

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The Radeon Vega Frontier Edition graphics card is going to empower the pioneers creating the next generation of gaming experiences, but it does beg one question: Can you game on a Radeon Vega Frontier Edition? The answer is yes, absolutely. But because this graphics card is optimized for professional use cases (and priced accordingly), if gaming is your primary reason for buying a GPU, I’d suggest waiting just a little while longer for the lower-priced, gaming-optimized Radeon RX Vega graphics card. You’ll be glad you did.

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That's a whole lot of sugarcoating :D

AMD Announces Radeon Vega Frontier Edition - Not for Gamers
https://www.techpowerup.com/img/17-0...dc40dc64d4.jpg

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

I'd say late September AT BEST for consumer card availability ( and at what numbers ? )

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LoL. At least you won't have to wait long to find out how wrong you are.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

LoL. At least you won't have to wait long to find out how wrong you are.

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We shall see...

Now our issue is the release date & quantity, performance is something we don't talk about anymore is it ? :D

Don't get lost ;)

If they're supply constrained then limiting vega to high margin areas makes sense. However note the background render at this timestamp
https://youtu.be/590h3XIUfHg?t=4401
Vega logo on an HBM-less package. Maybe it's just art, but maybe we also have gddr variants coming.

https://i.imgur.com/fWkIZqN.png

What the hell is going on with consumer Vega?! Still no news.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

LoL. At least you won't have to wait long to find out how wrong you are.

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Ugh just stop it man, you're worse then AMD. Every time with these 'I know more then you but I'm not saying anything' rubbish. Even Raja can't top your nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Tim

What the hell is going on with consumer Vega?! Still no news.

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no one is shipping bulk hbm2. samsung has some test batches they shipped out for testing recently, but micron and hynx have not shipped test batches recently and no one has a schedule for bulk. amd needs a gp102 equivalent so they can stick gddr on a part made for hbm, but since they went all in on hbm with nothing gddr on the same architecture i dont see it happening.

AMD put their eggs in the HBM basket, unfortunately that basket is full of holes.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

no one is shipping bulk hbm2. samsung has some test batches they shipped out for testing recently, but micron and hynx have not shipped test batches recently and no one has a schedule for bulk. amd needs a gp102 equivalent so they can stick gddr on a part made for hbm, but since they went all in on hbm with nothing gddr on the same architecture i dont see it happening.

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Yes it's looking like you're right zanzabar.

Do you have any idea when bulk HBM2 will be shipping? Best guess?

That could determine when we will see high end GPU's for gaming from AMD. After this presentation it doesn't look like any gaming parts are going to be released in June - even with rumors flying around to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Darakian

If they're supply constrained then limiting vega to high margin areas makes sense. However note the background render at this timestamp
https://youtu.be/590h3XIUfHg?t=4401
Vega logo on an HBM-less package. Maybe it's just art, but maybe we also have gddr variants coming.

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VEGA 11 is supposed to come out in late Q3 and be on GDDR5(x?) .If they wont release this too, thats a second year wasted for amd in high margin gpus. If nvidia would just come to terms with freesync. They would take all.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

We shall see...

Now our issue is the release date & quantity, performance is something we don't talk about anymore is it ? :D

Don't get lost ;)

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Release date isn't really an issue for those that don't immediately jump into a worst case scenario...
Same with quantity, the ~10k units at launch has been restated on almost every single high-end launch since Fermi. It is nice that they changed it from 15k to 16k for this launch.
Performance has never really been questioned if you have been actually reading the solid info we have on Vega. Worst case is ~10% slower than 1080Ti FE (going by TPU charts).

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Originally Posted by Darakian

If they're supply constrained then limiting vega to high margin areas makes sense. However note the background render at this timestamp
https://youtu.be/590h3XIUfHg?t=4401
Vega logo on an HBM-less package. Maybe it's just art, but maybe we also have gddr variants coming.

https://i.imgur.com/fWkIZqN.png

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Render seems more or less accurate to me. I believe they will be using an IHS due to the different heights of the 4hi and 8hi HBM2 stacks.
I don't see any GDDR ICs on the PCB in that render.

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Originally Posted by Tim

What the hell is going on with consumer Vega?! Still no news.

Ugh just stop it man, you're worse then AMD. Every time with these 'I know more then you but I'm not saying anything' rubbish. Even Raja can't top your nonsense.

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What is your problem?
An expanding high margin market that should double its revenue in the next 2-3 years is more geared to Financial Analyst Day than AMD trying to claw back some of the highend enthusiast desktop market.
Maybe there is some sort of consumer tradeshow coming up where they have scheduled a press event?

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

no one is shipping bulk hbm2. samsung has some test batches they shipped out for testing recently, but micron and hynx have not shipped test batches recently and no one has a schedule for bulk. amd needs a gp102 equivalent so they can stick gddr on a part made for hbm, but since they went all in on hbm with nothing gddr on the same architecture i dont see it happening.

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Samsung went into mass production of HBM2 in Jan '16. Hynix said they weren't more than a quarter behind at that time due to bringing up a new line.
Supposedly both are fully ramped as of Q1 '17, so I'm not sure where you are getting this.

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

Yes it's looking like you're right zanzabar.

Do you have any idea when bulk HBM2 will be shipping? Best guess?

That could determine when we will see high end GPU's for gaming from AMD. After this presentation it doesn't look like any gaming parts are going to be released in June - even with rumors flying around to the contrary.

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i would guess it should ship from samsung in july at earliest, but samsung is bellow the spec and we dont know when hynx is shipping since they have no testing that we know of. samsung has a test run for early june that will hopefully not be too under spec.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Samsung went into mass production of HBM2 in Jan '16. Hynix said they weren't more than a quarter behind at that time due to bringing up a new line.
Supposedly both are fully ramped as of Q1 '17, so I'm not sure where you are getting this.

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samsung started the the process for bulk shipments, the functional yield failed, and the parts all binned lower than jdec spec. they retooled and failed yield/bin again in march and are have another test batch in june. micron failed their test batch last october and said they would hold off until a node shrink expected for late '17. hynx failed in feb and we have not heard anything about bulk or a new test run. micron and hynx also did not ship any of their samples in their parts portals like samsung did; that does not mean we wont see their parts in enterprise applications like this vega or the p100 or v100, but it does mean we are no where near getting those consumer or non super computer products out.

remember in 2015 when hbm2 was going to save routers, phones, tvs, dvrs, and storage controllers, but we have seen none of it at trade shows.

Yeah something has gone dreadfully wrong with HBM2 production.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Samsung went into mass production of HBM2 in Jan '16. Hynix said they weren't more than a quarter behind at that time due to bringing up a new line. Supposedly both are fully ramped as of Q1 '17, so I'm not sure where you are getting this.

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Well wccftech just posted an article highlighting the delay of HBM2 and stating it's the reason Vega 10 high end gaming components aren't out yet. Timeline looks a little different.

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The 9 Month HBM2 Delay & Progressive Decline In Clock Speeds

We?re now seeing evidence that HBM2 is behind schedule, significantly so. Hynix updates its product databook on a quarterly basis. HBM2 first made an appearance in the company?s product catalog back in Q3 2016.

Hynix originally planned to ship HBM2 in Q3 2016 but it was pushed back a quarter in every update since then. The company initially planned to introduce two HBM2 products, rated at 2.0Gbps and 1.6Gbps. Overtime, the 2.0Gbps product was ostensibly scrapped in favor of the slower memory, likely because of yield/cost challenges.

According to the latest update from Hynix, HBM2 is still not available right now but is expected to begin shipping some time in Q2 2017. Memory products that Hynix is shipping right now are marked ?Now? under the availability column. Products not currently shipping have a quarterly based estimated shipping time-frame instead. This is is why HBM2?s availability is stated as ?Q2?17? rather than ?Now?

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Link

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

Well wccftech just posted an article highlighting the delay of HBM2 and stating it's the reason Vega 10 high end gaming components aren't out yet. Timeline looks a little different.



Link

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FYI- They are purely going off Hynix's publicly posted product catalog which isn't good investigative journalism.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

FYI- They are purely going off Hynix's publicly posted product catalog which isn't good investigative journalism.

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My common sense is tingling.
They are making the chips for quite a while now. They paper launched pro cards with availability in LATE june.
They COULD be making assload of cash of them vegas for gamers.
Raja in AMA on reddit today dodged the question again.
Remember this teaser and subsequent quiz with vega as a prize ? Theres still no eta on when the guy or gal is gonna get the card. Its "soon" for few months already.
So, you really think theres gonna be hard launch at computex ? really ?
Im pretty sure were gonna see the cards on computex.And there will still be no hard ETA.Unless its august or something.
And, even the FE got slower HBM2 chips. This thing has worse bandwith than fiji! points to bad yields.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

FYI- They are purely going off Hynix's publicly posted product catalog which isn't good investigative journalism.

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Huh? Strange. Cause that seems to match the reality of the situation.

Assuming that you have the resources to produce 20.000 Vega high end cards.
Given AMD's economic status, and the need to "impress" the investors, what would you do ?

Sell 20000 cards @ 1500 - 2000 a piece
or
Sell 10000 cards @ 1500 - 2000 a piece and 10000 @ 550 a piece

?

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Originally Posted by vario

So, you really think theres gonna be hard launch at computex ? really ?
Im pretty sure were gonna see the cards on computex.And there will still be no hard ETA.Unless its august or something.
And, even the FE got slower HBM2 chips. This thing has worse bandwith than fiji! points to bad yields.

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I never said a hard launch at computex. Stop trying to twist my words.

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

Huh? Strange. Cause that seems to match the reality of the situation.

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Does it? Cause there are numerous examples that prove otherwise.

You are twisting your own words.

First I say "best case scenario right now looks like August at best for consumer cards from Vega", then you say "two weeks before you are proven wrong", and now you are like "release date isn't an issue".

Make up your mind.
What was AMD saying the whole time ?
Is it being released during that timeframe ? no ( they were talking to gamers and implying that a gamer's card will be released, regardless of a pro card ).

Did they include the nasty "Poor volta" ? How true is it ? Especially in gaming if they are failing to match the 1080 Ti ?

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

You are twisting your own words.

First I say "best case scenario right now looks like August at best for consumer cards from Vega", then you say "two weeks before you are proven wrong", and now you are like "release date isn't an issue".

Make up your mind.
What was AMD saying the whole time ?
Is it being released during that timeframe ? no ( they were talking to gamers and implying that a gamer's card will be released, regardless of a pro card ).

Did they include the nasty "Poor volta" ? How true is it ? Especially in gaming if they are failing to match the 1080 Ti ?

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Really? I will help you out.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

LOL.

Late June ( aka a few days before July comes ) for the... datacenter & HPC Vega card.
No mention at all of the consumer/gamer card.

September ? October ? "Poor volta"...

Performance shown in Sniper Elite 4... DX11 ( I remember AMD was like "we optimized for the latest and newest APIs" ) and a game that favors AMD GPUs, Vega showing 60fps... 1080 Ti doing 68fps in reviews.
Not a good indication if you ask me.

Good luck keeping the gamers off buying a 1080 Ti now.

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And in case you missed it Vega FE is a pro-sumer card, like a Titan , not a HPC card like MI25.
SE4 demo showed Vega (if the settings were on Ultra) matching/beating an OC'ed 1080Ti in the same areas.

SE4 demo showed inferior performance to the 1080 Ti stock, not even OCed.

Unless you think a 1400MHz boost 1080 Ti is considered... overclocked :D

Your "pro-sumer" card phrase is really funny.
What's next ?

Convincing people to buy a 1500-2000$ card with inferior performance to a $699 card ? :D

Still not released means something gone wrong with Vega reason might be HBM2 or another thing it does not matter.

AMD Confirms Radeon RX Vega Soft-launch at Computex

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Originally Posted by StyM

AMD Confirms Radeon RX Vega Soft-launch at Computex

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So paper launch first week of June. By the time everything is sorted out still looks like...July-ish before anyone has a physical card in their hands. :shrug:

Why bother? :shakes:

No hard launch date
No proper performance figures
No admitting supply problems with HBM2

They should call this the Radeon VAGUE.

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

...

They should call this the Radeon VAGUE.

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:ROTF:


Anyhow, this TPU soft launch news is misleading. No one from AMD told anyone about any sort of RX vega launch.
They only talked about "showing" RX Vega on computex. Not to burst anyones bubbles, but they are showing it from december.As in showing live demos of the card working, and even playing some games.That doesnt mean jack.

The card can OC well and be a threat to 1080ti. But unlocked power limit Ti will blow it out of the water.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

SE4 demo showed inferior performance to the 1080 Ti stock, not even OCed.

Unless you think a 1400MHz boost 1080 Ti is considered... overclocked :D

Your "pro-sumer" card phrase is really funny.
What's next ?

Convincing people to buy a 1500-2000$ card with inferior performance to a $699 card ? :D

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HuH? In the same areas it was roughly matching and at times beating a 1900mhz 1080Ti...

It appears that you are pretty much the only one with that "vision" :D

Even if it could be beating the overclocked Titan Xp there too, it wouldn't be much of a "relief" since when you look at how various cards from AMD & nVIDIA perform on SE4 you see a pattern that isn't reflected outside that game.

Vega's looking good, just taking so damn long to arrive!

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Originally Posted by vario

:ROTF:


Anyhow, this TPU soft launch news is misleading. No one from AMD told anyone about any sort of RX vega launch.
They only talked about "showing" RX Vega on computex. Not to burst anyones bubbles, but they are showing it from december.As in showing live demos of the card working, and even playing some games.That doesnt mean jack.

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Because TPU has sunk to another new low, outside of PSU reviews that place has gone to s#it. But hey, at least it's profitable now! :rolleyes: :shakes:

It doesn't help when they get linked all the time either. When will Xs news be Xs news again? Instead of just copy pasta some other site/s?

Just to clarify:

RX- September launch

FE-Late June

Enthusiast can get FE, sorta like Titan but it is not much slower than RX.

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

Just to clarify:

RX- September launch

FE-Late June

Enthusiast can get FE, sorta like Titan but it is not much slower than RX.

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I sure hope that's note remotely correct, RX in September would be pretty disastrous for the market.

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Originally Posted by Tim

I sure hope that's note remotely correct, RX in September would be pretty disastrous for the market.

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What you mean?

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

What you mean?

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I thought you were making a statement with your post? RX in September? Like you know it's coming in September?

For our friend LordEC911

https://youtu.be/drbk91rZijI?t=11m58s

https://streamable.com/9p5fo

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

For our friend LordEC911

https://youtu.be/drbk91rZijI?t=11m58s

https://streamable.com/9p5fo

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Yeah, everything points to a card thats between 1080 an 1080ti performance wise and available late summer/september.
With base case scenarios maybe matching 1080ti.Good thing is we should know performance from FE cards.
People may be disappinted by it. But thats exactly the segment im looking to buy :) .Freesync, longer proper driver support, this HBCC may come in handy down the line.But inevitably volta will put more pressure in half a year or so.

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Originally Posted by Tim

I thought you were making a statement with your post? RX in September? Like you know it's coming in September?

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Yes. But, disaster on the market. Why did you write that?

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

Yes. But, disaster on the market. Why did you write that?

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People tend to exaggerate. For the past like 15 years im reading at least once a month that amd is finished and going to be bankrupt "soon".
Theres not gonna be any disaster because gaming cards are going to be 3 months late. Its not good. But certainly not a disaster.Moreover, even if they didnt sold a single vega 10 to gamers, but sold them only to HPC/PRO market with high margins. This wouldnt be even bad for them.And looking at cryptocurrencies getting a second push, they can be bought by miners, just like 480 580 now, and 290x before.
I would look closer into ryzen in terms how amd is doing, how well its being adopted by the bigger clients. First wave sold well to enthusiasts, but thats not the main market. AMD needs to get into server/hpc/mobile and bulk oem sales.

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

Yes. But, disaster on the market. Why did you write that?

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No competition for a year and four months is certainly not good for the market. In terms of not putting out a competitive product to counter your direct competitor for that long is nothing short but disastrous.

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Originally Posted by vario

People tend to exaggerate. For the past like 15 years im reading at least once a month that amd is finished and going to be bankrupt "soon".
Theres not gonna be any disaster because gaming cards are going to be 3 months late. Its not good. But certainly not a disaster.Moreover, even if they didnt sold a single vega 10 to gamers, but sold them only to HPC/PRO market with high margins. This wouldnt be even bad for them.And looking at cryptocurrencies getting a second push, they can be bought by miners, just like 480 580 now, and 290x before.
I would look closer into ryzen in terms how amd is doing, how well its being adopted by the bigger clients. First wave sold well to enthusiasts, but thats not the main market. AMD needs to get into server/hpc/mobile and bulk oem sales.

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3 months late? Uhm, no. 1080 ruling the market place for a year and four months is nothing but a disaster on behalf of AMD. Of course it won't finish AMD, I'm not daft, but a gap this big has never happened since both companies started producing graphics cards in the mid nineties. That's 22 years of competition between the two camps. Still think I'm exaggerating?

Let's not even have a look at the release date of the Fury X, 24 June 2015, which was a poor card in itself, add the months up, you do the math!

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Originally Posted by Tim

3 months late? Uhm, no. 1080 ruling the market place for a year and four months is nothing but a disaster on behalf of AMD. Of course it won't finish AMD, I'm not daft, but a gap this big has never happened since both companies started producing graphics cards in the mid nineties. That's 22 years of competition between the two camps. Still think I'm exaggerating?

Let's not even have a look at the release date of the Fury X, 24 June 2015, which was a poor card in itself, add the months up, you do the math!

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the fury pro is still technically the fastest card, that counts for amd sales domination, right :D

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Originally Posted by Tim

No competition for a year and four months is certainly not good for the market. In terms of not putting out a competitive product to counter your direct competitor for that long is nothing short but disastrous.



3 months late? Uhm, no. 1080 ruling the market place for a year and four months is nothing but a disaster on behalf of AMD. Of course it won't finish AMD, I'm not daft, but a gap this big has never happened since both companies started producing graphics cards in the mid nineties. That's 22 years of competition between the two camps. Still think I'm exaggerating?

Let's not even have a look at the release date of the Fury X, 24 June 2015, which was a poor card in itself, add the months up, you do the math!

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AMD/ATI not always had the big chip big card competition so its not really new. As for the amount of being late, im referring to official amd info , it was SUPPOSED to come out in december lat year, but only recently they announced official date that its before Q2 ends, and from that time to actual availability of gaming cards its gonna be round 3 months it looks. Yes, it SHOULD come out with 1080, but that was impossible with the decisions they made beforehand.
I dont think they were always competing in the same manner for the 22 years you mention, there were flops along the way.Fury maxx , 2900XT for example.
And given that biggest volta is gonna be 800mm2. Theres not gonna be single chip competition this or next year also.

This just in:

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Dr. Lisa Su, President & CEO at AMD
We’re very excited about Vega. Vega is a brand new architecture and actually has really the world’s most advanced memory architecture for GPUs. What we did announce at our analyst day was that the first shipping Vega will be the Frontier Edition which will ship with 16GB of memory and will ship towards the latter half of June. You will see the enthusiast gaming platform, the machine learning platform, the professional graphics platform very soon thereafter. And so we will be launching Vega across all of the market segments over the next couple of months.

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source: http://wccftech.com/amd-ceo-gaming-r...ntier-edition/


A little more reassuring that they will have some hardware out apparently, if Lisa Su is to be believed or taken lightly, I don't know.

This can't come out soon enough guys.. I'm using a bunch of R9 Fury's and a Radeon Pro Duo (based on the R9 nano)... hardware is getting old, hot, and slow compared to the GTX 1080 Ti (tempted to get them, but not at the price they're asking... we need competition!). I'm also looking to upgrade to Vega if the product delivers on both price and performance.

Not really.

Top card does offer high performance. It came pretty close to 1080 ti when was OC`ed. (Better than 1080 oc)

NV will surely counter it with allowing us to unlock TDP on pascal. Msi Lightning and KPE are already close to being released. (Serves as a hint)

And finally, Pascal cards at 1.25V are very powerfull and dont require extra cooling solutions.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

For our friend LordEC911

https://youtu.be/drbk91rZijI?t=11m58s

https://streamable.com/9p5fo

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I discuss things on a regular basis with the guy that runs AdoredTV... other than him correcting me about the number of ACEs on Fiji (it is 4ACEs btw), in which our discussion caused an email chain within AMD to get clarification since the Fiji block diagrams at launch differed from the ones at HotChips, I don't recall any other scenarios that had a similar ending.
He has limited contacts in the industry and much of his "analysis" is using his "logic" that has no track record, he changed his channel from gaming oriented to gaming hardware oriented about a year and a half ago. So you are going to have to do better than that, I have a decent amount of notches on my belt from much more notable hardware "journalists."

As for the JP Morgan clip, what about it? How does that disprove anything I have stated...
At this point, I have no idea what point you are trying to make other than attempting to troll me.

Must be in denial :D

Anyway, I wait for Vega on the 1st week, max 2nd week of July, like you are implying :D

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Originally Posted by turbox997

...hardware is getting old, hot, and slow compared to the GTX 1080 Ti (tempted to get them, but not at the price they're asking... we need competition!)...

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I must say I've really enjoyed playing Witcher 3 Wild Hunt at max settings on my EVGA 1080Ti SC2 :yepp:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...54/924/bd1.jpg

Ha, I'm still running a 7950...

Why run homo GPUs?

Can buy Ti and set done! NV optimized it for consumers and a future proof 1440p card.

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

Why run homo GPUs?

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Care to expand here?

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

Can buy Ti and set done! NV optimized it for consumers and a future proof 1440p card.

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So, they optimized it for consumers, and AMD cards are not? How?
As for future proofing, GCN seems to fair better at nearly every step there, so again, please expand.

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

I must say I've really enjoyed playing Witcher 3 Wild Hunt at max settings on my EVGA 1080Ti SC2 :yepp:

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I'm sure it's great, haha.. But still can't get around the $700+ street price for it, it wins no doubt, there's nothing like it at it's price point, but that's what gets me. "There could be something else... something better... the price could be better!"

Here's to waiting for end of June to end of July for AMD to finally release something that can potentially make Nvidia at least drop the prices. Maybe* at $550 I'll consider the GTx1080 Ti's...

Shhit, I just want there to be some decent priced and stocked RX 580s lol

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Originally Posted by bluestang

Shhit, I just want there to be some decent priced and stocked RX 580s lol

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i picked up a gaming x 480 4GB for $165 at frys when my 7950 died a couple months* ago. dont you guys have micro center out in ohio maybe they have some 480 left.

Nice score!

Yep, no stock though. About an hour drive too otherwise​ I'd go to see what they have open box or not in the online system.

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Originally Posted by turbox997

I'm sure it's great, haha.. But still can't get around the $700+ street price for it, it wins no doubt, there's nothing like it at it's price point, but that's what gets me. "There could be something else... something better... the price could be better!"

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See I've been caught up in the "waiting game" too. Problem is you're going to be waiting forever! Something new and better is always coming out. The current build I just made this month should last me 5 years - then I'll upgrade again. That's the cycle I'm on. :)

Interesting. Nvidia, might soon introduce an Enthusiast "program" (like an option) for their GPUs. I have very vague details about it but it does sound like a very plausible addition to what NV has been up to lately.

Will see what happens after Computex. MSI is ready to release its Lightning Ti and they always work in collaboration with NV in regards to extreme gpus and its software.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

I'd say late September AT BEST for consumer card availability ( and at what numbers ? )

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LoL. At least you won't have to wait long to find out how wrong you are.

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Originally Posted by Tim

What the hell is going on with consumer Vega?! Still no news.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

LoL. At least you won't have to wait long to find out how wrong you are.

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Ugh just stop it man, you're worse then AMD. Every time with these 'I know more then you but I'm not saying anything' rubbish. Even Raja can't top your nonsense.

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God, I'm sooo delusional and also spout such nonsense.... :rolleyes:

Feel free to post your apologies here.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

God, I'm sooo delusional and also spout such nonsense.... :rolleyes:

Feel free to post your apologies here.

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Why would I apologise?

I never said you are delusional, whether you are actually right or not doesn't matter, they way you go about it is just annoying, what is this, kindergarten? I know more then you but I won't tell you anything. So why post anything to begin with, you aren't contributing in any way?

So, we get essentially a tech preview with the frontier edition in late june and something we can buy a month later.

So... 27th of July... technically July, practically August and with unknown availability.

Can't wait to hear from our educated friend LordEC911 :D

This is not going well for Vega

You guys really expected Vega to beat the 1080 Ti & Titan Xp ?

AMD was handing over all the tell signs that it isn't going to and all that mystery behind it was pointing towards a rather good delay.
If they had a sufficient Titan Xp killer, trust me, they'd be showcasing all sorts of benchmarks at GDC, not at Computex, nor at Siggraph, nor in late August.

In order to have a balanced field in the GPU area like we now have in the CPU area, AMD needed Vega to be some sort of miracle, leapfrogging the f*ck out of their previous offerings and leaving the Titan Xp a good 20% behind ( in order to be in the "trade blows generation after generation, refresh after refresh" between them and NVIDIA [ think GTX 580 -> 7970 -> GTX 680 -> 7970 GHz -> 780 Ti era ] ).

Beating 1080ti is another thing. I m talking about marketing side but not the possible hypes or other things. I am talking about the delay. Even they can't make a softlaunch on computex... and If I get it right Q1 launch will not going to happen either. And of course a datacenter product named vega which nobody will buy won't count. So still 27th of july launch can be a soft one. And maybe even september cant happen.

Showing a one minute game play of a player who doesn't like to move too much on a system dual vega system with new ryzen without any performance indicators is more than a disaster. Showing these on computex may be the best they can do or amd may have nothing to the with the delay or etc. but all of these hurt them a lot.

Useless thread.

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

Useless thread.

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Useless post.

If you consider this thread useless, the door is open and the dogs are all tied.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

Useless post.

If you consider this thread useless, the door is open and the dogs are all tied.

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It is not consideration, it is a fact.

Not all are capable to "get" it, though.

And btw, just to throw the last tidbit of quality, AMD crаp gonna be offered in 2 versions vega 10 and 11. Computex had 10 running. 11 is coming at a later(quiet a bit) date. So if someone here wants performance, better buy NV here and now and stop listening to all these BS sht about volta. It is a very long time till it will come out.

The crowd is getting restless, lock the door.

Easy guys, just a few more months to go. You know I mean days but it feels like forever.

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

It is not consideration, it is a fact.

Not all are capable to "get" it, though.

And btw, just to throw the last tidbit of quality, AMD crаp gonna be offered in 2 versions vega 10 and 11. Computex had 10 running. 11 is coming at a later(quiet a bit) date. So if someone here wants performance, better buy NV here and now and stop listening to all these BS sht about volta. It is a very long time till it will come out.

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Stick around with LordEC911.
I'll definitely call you up upon this.

By the way, Q1 2018 is far from very long time :D

Arguing on performance or release date or things like these which will become known in the future is just for fun never forgot this please.

While I am upset that we couldn't see anything useful about vega on computex the main problem still is on the marketing side. There is no way AMD doesn't know the things going on internet and everybody got himself ready to see a launch on computex. They should have said that it will not going to happen on computex before that press conference.

They are shooting themselves in the knees.

Now Koduri said on I don't remember, was it Twitter or on Reddit, that the 2* RX Vega Prey demo was "above 60fps" ( he could've said like "above 80fps" ), and "running comfortably above *any* single gpu card out there".

Is @LordEC911 ok ?
He's gone missing ( probably in the adventures of finding the RX Vega :D )

AMD RX Vega Benchmarks Leaked - Performance between 1080 and 1080Ti

FWIW

RX Vega Duck Test results leaked.

Can't help but feel they are going to bleed money on this one!

pretty decent scores, hopefully not fake.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

Stick around with LordEC911.
I'll definitely call you up upon this.

By the way, Q1 2018 is far from very long time :D

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6-8months ? Eh. I consider it a long time.
Its still to be seen how much better volta is going to be(than pascal). Things arent really what they seem.
I just want to know, what went wrong with vega, maybe its still fixable.484mm2 chip, on 14nm. Thats a big ass chip with absurd power consumption, and performance nowhere to be found.
I mean if they would shrink hawaii and make it bigger a bit faster and give it the same 300W tdp it would be faster.
Polaris is more than half the size ! And has slow bandwith.

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Originally Posted by vario

I just want to know, what went wrong with vega, maybe its still fixable.484mm2 chip, on 14nm. Thats a big ass chip with absurd power consumption, and performance nowhere to be found. I mean if they would shrink hawaii and make it bigger a bit faster and give it the same 300W tdp it would be faster. Polaris is more than half the size ! And has slow bandwith.

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From my understanding, in the short version, the main problem is that AMD bet big on HBM2 and it back fired.

See below, for more details on the long version: Some info taken from Nvidia's SC15 GPU Tech Theater

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On further explaining the next generation GPU architectures and efficiency, Stephen pointed out that HBM is a great memory architecture which will be implemented across Pascal and Volta chips but those chips have max bandwidth of 1.2 TB/s (Volta GPU). Moving forward, there exists a looming memory power crisis. HBM2 at 1.2 TB/s sure is great but it adds 60W to the power envelope on a standard GPU. The current implementation of HBM1 on Fiji chips adds around 25W to the chip. Moving onwards, chips with access of 2 TB/s bandwidth will increase the overall power limit on chips which will go from worse to breaking point. A chip with 2.5 TB/s HBM (2nd generation) memory will reach a 120W TDP for the memory architecture alone, a 1.5 times efficient HBM 2 architecture that outputs over 3 TB/s bandwidth will need 160W to feed the memory alone.

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Source: Link

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

From my understanding, in the short version, the main problem is that AMD bet big on HBM2 and it back fired.

See below, for more details on the long version: Some info taken from Nvidia's SC15 GPU Tech Theater



Source: Link

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Hold on. HBM was supposed to be the "power saver" for the GPU memory architecture.
Anyhow, we have 484GB/s on vega, so thats less than half of this 60W power figure, that would put HBM power consumption in vega at around 30W maybe less.Thas less than GDDR5/x/6.
And The cards are supposed to eat up 300-400W. HBM doesnt really explain Vega for me.
Fiji had 4 stacks of HBM1, Vega has 2 Stacks of HBM2 at LOWER bandwith and still eats anyhwere between 25 and 100W more than Fiji! Something more is wrong here.
I know that HBM2 availability was a thing that surely went wrong for AMD. But i dont know about the power consumption and performance.

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Originally Posted by vario

Hold on. HBM was supposed to be the "power saver" for the GPU memory architecture.

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That's the key..."supposed to" is turning out to not. One of the two main reasons nvidia hasn't switched to HBM2 for consumer grade products availability and power consumption. It's shown right in the link directly from nvidia this was a major concern for them.

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/u...ory-Crisis.jpg

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

That's the key..."supposed to" is turning out to not. One of the two main reasons nvidia hasn't switched to HBM2 for consumer grade products availability and power consumption. It's shown right in the link directly from nvidia this was a major concern for them.

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/u...ory-Crisis.jpg

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I get that HBM2 in the near future is going to be a power problem. But according to this slide, Vega is at most at the "unhappy" emoji phase, which means still better (lower) power consumption for the memory subsystem than the gddr5. Isnt it ?
I mean, remember, it has TWO SLOW HBM2 stacks, thats in contrast with FOUR FASTER HBM1 stacks of Fury X. its not even at 0.5TB/s yet, and you are talking about a problematic 1,2TB/s+ speeds.That cant explain a 100W+ power envelope over FURY.
I only see it as a major AMD fckup, or GLOFO`s fault.

@SinOfLiberty
Is vega 11 the same chip with disabled CU`s ,or is it a separate chip ?

HBM requires no memory controller so the net is supposed to be more efficient. the problem is that it still needs a memory controller.

It is way more cut down w/o HBM2

It is all a load of bull.. As in practice, Power Consumption goes out of the window once the card is clocked beyond certain frequencies. In case of AMD, dat huge аss number of W`s comes from exactly that. The chip is running at its highest freq, that the hardware is capable of.

But again, this is not how it will be marketed as. Just an extra option for OC`ers and reviewers to demonstrate what the card is really capable of when pushed to max.

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Originally Posted by vario

I get that HBM2 in the near future is going to be a power problem. But according to this slide, Vega is at most at the "unhappy" emoji phase, which means still better (lower) power consumption for the memory subsystem than the gddr5. Isnt it ?
I mean, remember, it has TWO SLOW HBM2 stacks, thats in contrast with FOUR FASTER HBM1 stacks of Fury X. its not even at 0.5TB/s yet, and you are talking about a problematic 1,2TB/s+ speeds.That cant explain a 100W+ power envelope over FURY.
I only see it as a major AMD fckup, or GLOFO`s fault.

@SinOfLiberty
Is vega 11 the same chip with disabled CU`s ,or is it a separate chip ?

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Unhappy emoji phase is actually 4 stacks, look at the projected bandwidth (1000 GB/s), 2 stacks HBM2 should be AT HBM 4 stack power consumption or less. Anyone thinking the HBM2 is using lots and lots of power is probably wrong, the 2 stacks should be at least 2x the perf / watt of GDDR5 @ <250 GB/s and 3x+ perf / watt of GDDR5 @ ~500GB/s.

Further backing this up is the mem VRM on the Vega FE card, OnSemi NTMFD4C86N which is only going to do about 25-30 amps @ 1.2-1.3v <40w

It is absolutely mind-blowing to think that Zen and Vega are both on 14nm LPP considering how great Zen is and how poorly Vega is performing.

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Originally Posted by SinOfLiberty

It is way more cut down w/o HBM2

It is all a load of bull.. As in practice, Power Consumption goes out of the window once the card is clocked beyond certain frequencies. In case of AMD, dat huge аss number of W`s comes from exactly that. The chip is running at its highest freq, that the hardware is capable of.

But again, this is not how it will be marketed as. Just an extra option for OC`ers and reviewers to demonstrate what the card is really capable of when pushed to max.

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How do you know this?

Look - there aren't even ES samples of Vega 11 yet nor have there ever been and I don't think we'll see one.
Vega 10 should easily scale down to the 150w TDP range Polaris 10 occupies. My bet is that Vega 11, if a design actually existed, has been cancelled.

Leaked Q4'16 slides with Vega 11 show it slotting in for inference applications below Vega 10 but today we have the Radeon Instinct MI8 instead, a 175w R9 Nano in new clothing. The MI8 for FP32 most likely matches or beats the MI25 in performance / watt at stock performance levels.

Vega 11 wouldn't make sense unless it is equipped with the same FP16 capability as Vega 10 and extremely huge GDDR5X bus and 20GB+ GDDR5X...but then again, it would use way more power than Vega 10 due to the GDDR5X power consumption.

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Originally Posted by BeepBeep2

...

Look - there aren't even ES samples of Vega 11 yet nor have there ever been and I don't think we'll see one.
Vega 10 should easily scale down to the 150w TDP range Polaris 10 occupies. My bet is that Vega 11, if a design actually existed, has been cancelled...

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I dont know. But Vega 11 on GDDR5(x), as in smaller ANOTHER chip, would be a very welcomed thing for AMD.Yes Vega 10 can scale down.
But its BIG, it needs HBM2, it needs inerposer. A smaller chip (much cheaper to produce) on a widespread cheap memory is certainly something that AMD needs...

What worries me is that at least NOW, it seems, that polaris has more performance for mm2/hz(up to 1300mhz or so).So that could be a reason to can it, or maybe rework it.