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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1705005
Feel bad by those affected. There's probably a whole lot of chinese people, who are losing their entirely livelyhood and more.
Probably a lot of people even here affected. This event is a prime example of why virtual currency is flawed and why something mined with computer technology and accordingly effected by the flaws of computer technology, make cryptocurrency, unable to be a currency, volatility.
anyone who still had money in mtgox diserved to loose it, they were always shady.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
there is nothing wrong with bitcoin and no one is really all that suprised by this happening.
this is getting so old.
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/46622223.jpg
Its the shear volume of the bitcoins that makes this event significant. When 7 percent of the worlds bitcoins get whipped out like that, its huge. In modern history, I can't think of any time where something wiped out a resource or currency where 7% of it it disappeared or stolen. If this was USA currency, it would be like hundreds of billions of dollars disappearing maybe even trillions.Quote:
Originally Posted by NKrader
Plus that bitcoin gif you posted doesn't make it isn't any less true. Something that can change its value 20-30% over night, double or triple or decrease by a similar amount over a month represents the word unstable very well. Particularly when you consider it is a currency. If Bitcoin is to be taken seriously as a currency, it needs to be stable 1st.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1Q0I520140227
Quote:
Mt. Gox had 600,000 customers at the time, the research report said - 30 percent from the United States, 10 percent from Britain and just 300 in Japan. Given that most users are overseas, any court case to retrieve missing funds would be more likely in the United States than Japan, said Ken Kiyohara, a lawyer at Jones Day. "It probably comes under the (Japanese) Financial Services Agency's (FSA) remit, but giving a reason for that in one sentence is impossible," he said.
Uh huh. So I deserved to loose the BTC I had in Mt. Gox because I'm a long-time-span BTC trader, and only made a trade every few weeks/months when the market had dramatic changes? Sorry I don't have the time to constantly troll the bitcoin forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by NKrader
I never jumped on the Bitcoin bandwagon, and (if only for the state of my electricity bill) I am glad I never did. The number of people jumping around saying smugly "I told you so" must be pretty galling to the people who wasted so much time and real money on this scam. The fact that the REAL money spent on making Bitcoins PER YEAR far exceeds the total possible value of ALL those already minted/mined is very telling. But the story and insightful comments here are VERY apposite: http://www.dailytech.com/The+Death+o...ticle34390.htm
I can't help agreeing with the concensus there that on any rational evaluation, this was a classic pyramid scam set up to benefit those in at the start while paupering those who joined later. You can't really separate out the fraudulent exchange from the (surprise, surprise: secret) source of the currency, either. The potential long-term benefits of government-independent cyber-currency are an interesting twist in this sorry story, and yet to be proven fully, but THIS currency attempt, and this criminal exchange which systematically stole users' funds in what looks VERY suspiciously like an inside job rather than outside hacking, has neatly put that debate back for years.
It's going to be interesting to watch individuals try to sue these people through whatever courts they think will help. Since the entire premise was that this was an UNregulated currency, no government financial authority or regulator is going to touch this unlicensed, unregulated gambling and speculation with a barge pole. And since there is nothing backing the worth of what has been lost (some digital hashes) I'll bet most civil authorities are likely to ask what crime exactly has been committed? :rolleyes:
I personally have a gut feeling bitcoin will be relegated to only illegal activity 10 years from now. The US government refused to regulate it (or at least under Yellen the Federal Reserve wants no part of it), and the way the currency is de-identified it makes it particularly vulnerable to hacking. This is only the beginning, and I think you'll see a lot of the respectable people who invested great wealth will pull out of the market for more traditional investments. I'll be surprised if the average person even remembers it in a few years.
I feel sorry for you, but the bold part is pretty much 101 when it comes to BTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head
If you're going to invest real money into something as heavily volatile as BTC, you NEED to be trolling the forums constantly.
You need to be ahead of the game at every point or your investment can disappear in a heartbeat.
-PB
This is why I'm a big fan of Burton Malkiel, as you might beat the market every now and then by betting on volatility and extreme growth, but >90% of the time the SP500 wins in the long runQuote:
Originally Posted by paulbagz
I never put any real money into it. I got in on BTC early, back in late 2010/early 2011. Mined some coins, sold some, and basically stopped caring when the difficulty got too high for my 4770 to be profitable. My most recent money came from playing around with Doge (I got in when the difficulty was about 10), and selling those. I had been using Mt. Gox successfully since the beginning and had no reason to doubt them.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbagz
Why were people putting their entire livlihood into a digital currency, some of whom no doubt paid little attention to the finer details? It's no better than investing heavily into the stock market. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket and never count the chickens before they hatch. Yea, they've lost out on the cost of electricity, at least the hardware can be sold on or re-purposed.
For the same reason people "invest" in the lottery.Quote:
Originally Posted by K404
Bitcoin mining hardware can't be sold on or re-purposed. All the ASIC designs do is an SHA-256 hashing function.Quote:
Originally Posted by K404
Not saying you "deserved to lose" them, but I was under the impression that only idiots used Mt. Gox or kept a majority of their coins in an exchange platform. (Not saying you're an idiot personally...)Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head
If you only made a trade every few weeks/months then you should have had your coins in cold wallet, not an exchange. A USB drive would have worked well for you.
Huh? Chinese people have a bigger problem to worry about, something along the lines of $3.7 Trillion US dollars they can never collect but can only roll over treasury bonds in perpetuity...Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
they've been trading those off slowly for the past few years...
SWING . . . . and a MISS !!! :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallite
(baseball analogy)
Foreign Holders of US Treasury Debt
China held $1.27T as of December, 2013. And, a country does not "roll over treasury bonds in perpetuity" -- interest on US Treasury paper is received quarterly, and principle is returned at end of term.
Total holdings are roughly in line with those over the last 3 years ... $1.2T to $1.3T.
And, interesting enough (I'll be the first to admit I'm not really Mr. International High Finance) as China untethers the Yuan in a more open fashion in the market, and its value rises against other foreign currencies, they will likely be cashing-in some of the 'marketable' US securities held.
AND, with the appreciation in value of the Yuan against other foreign currencies, those exports from China will not look so attractive around the world.
If one good thing will come out of bitcoin, it's that the myriads of failed Radeon graphics cards used for mining hitting the market reveal what a shoddy job their engineering team did.
Well, if users had arrays of 7990 (etc,) they can be sold off as gaming cards, or they could start mining on another server. They still have their hardware, the value of it did not suddenly go to 0.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
Im trying to figure out what you are trying to say here.Quote:
Originally Posted by mockingbird
You mean the fact that there hasn't been an outbreak of RMAs over the last few years?Quote:
Originally Posted by mockingbird
Or are you talking about how AMD hasn't had to recall cards like Nvidia during bumpgate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3My4MHr51c
There haven't?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Early 4870s didn't have issues with qimonda GDDR5 degrading?
The GSOD issue on 5870?
Desktop corruption on Tahiti? I sent in an rma for this one before I found out that it was a common software issues.
Black screen issues on r9 290x?
Yeah, neither amd or nvidia has a perfect track record. Stop being such a fanboy.
there is now an official statement on the mtgox website:
Also it looks like mtgox was not the only exchange affected, FlexCoin is gone as well after bitcoins where stolen, although it was a much smaller amount.Quote:
At the start of February 2014, illegal access through the abuse of a bug in the bitcoin system resulted in an increase in incomplete bitcoin transfer transactions and we discovered that there was a possibility that bitcoins had been illicitly moved through the abuse of this bug.
As a result of our internal investigation, we found that a large amount of bitcoins had disappeared. Although the complete extent is not yet known, we found that approximately 750,000 bitcoins deposited by users and approximately 100,000 bitcoins belonging to us had disappeared.
We believe that there is a high probability that these bitcoins were stolen as a result of an abuse of this bug and we have asked an expert to look at the possibility of a criminal complaint and undertake proper procedures.
On the same day (24th), we found out large discrepancies between the amount of cash held in financial institutions and the amount deposited from our users. The amounts are still under investigation and may vary but they approximate JPY 2.8 billion.
Quote:
Flexcoin is shutting down.
On March 2nd 2014 Flexcoin was attacked and robbed of all coins in the hot wallet. The attacker made off with 896 BTC, dividing them into these two addresses:
1NDkevapt4SWYFEmquCDBSf7DLMTNVggdu
1QFcC5JitGwpFKqRDd9QNH3eGN56dCNgy6
As Flexcoin does not have the resources, assets, or otherwise to come back from this loss, we are closing our doors immediately.
Users who put their coins into cold storage will be contacted by Flexcoin and asked to verify their identity. Once identified, cold storage coins will be transferred out free of charge. Cold storage coins were held offline and not within reach of the attacker. All other users will be directed to Flexcoin's "Terms of service" located at "Flexcoin.com/118.html" a document which was agreed on, upon signing up with Flexcoin.
Flexcoin will attempt to work with law enforcement to trace the source of the hack.
That's why I think bitcoin isn't safe enough for general investment. A lot of major players are getting hacked right nowQuote:
Originally Posted by naokaji
Was it the Qimonda GDDR5 degrading on the 48xx that caused the failures? I thought there was a problem with the reference VRM deisgn... I've got a non-reference 4890 with qimonda.Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ
nVidia had bumpgate, but I never see their recent stuff on the market as defective. ATI/AMD OTOH, plenty of cards, not to mention their shoddy laptop chipsets (4200) which were just as shoddy as nVidia MCP and are failing en masse.
Oh, you wanna talk RMA numberz LordEC911 ? Really ?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/f9f413e...9109162853.jpg http://tof.canardpc.com/view/eccc171...529f3bc34f.jpg http://tof.canardpc.com/view/a39f86f...477a42cf74.jpg
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/893-...raphiques.html
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/e9b0b07...80ed7ccc8a.jpg http://tof.canardpc.com/view/c15d6aa...0fe4ee5349.jpg
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/911-...raphiques.html
Dat are officials numbers from a famous french e-tailer, the same one which throw away Pitcairn from their rigs because of an enormous RMA rate.
It's certainly not the huge bumpgate failure but it's quite a shame to see AMD cards far less reliable than nVidia's ones.
Ha ha... I knew it! Thanks for the concrete data...
I was talking specifically about mining, which is what was being discussed...Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ
4870 issue is new, have any links?
Everything else you pointed out seems to be software issues.
Numbers like that only get you so far, ie doesn't tell the whole story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon
Especially when those same numbers in the past have been dug into and found out to not be entirely accurate.
RMAs aren't necessarily due to failed hardware.
Edit- High Sapphire failures was related to one of the components they ordered being out of spec due to a manufacturer defect/oversight.
I don't recall any failures due to vrms. The only thing that I do remember is ocp kicking in with OCCT. AMD's reference designs always seem well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by mockingbird
IIRC it was just the first gen GDDR5
What does it matter? I've seen a lot of people on the forums sending cards in for an rma over those software issues. Thats the topic that you bought up, rmas.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
I'm also not convinced that all of the black screen issues on early 290x are software related.
Sapphire was not the only one impacted :Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
http://www.hardware.fr/news/12705/ra...-solution.htmlQuote:
It becomes obvious that this is a widespread problem that has been identified by AMD after roughly two months of production and corrected faster or slower depending on the manufacturer.
However they are literally useless for the past 10 months for bitcoin mining.Quote:
Originally Posted by K404
Scrypt algo coins, yes but ASIC designs are coming soon Q3-ish
You will see more Scrypt-jane and ScryptN coins then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
-PB
Who do people actually keep a large amount of BTC in a wallet from a 3rd party ? Thats like running around with all your savings in your pockets instead of putting it in the bank .
When I buy BTC i immediately transfer it from Kraken/mtgox/blockchain to my offline Bitcoin-QT client for example . I only have like 0.11 BTC somewhere in an online wallet .
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A250HH20140306
CEO of a small bitcoin startup in singapore committed suicide. Too young, only 28.
I wonder if the same thing happened to them.
Japan gov. said they don't see bitcoin as a currency and they don't have plans for making it a financial asset.
You have to wonder the kinds of threats he was facing once he was hacked (I can only assume he lost the assets of very powerful people)Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Whoever took it, I hope it was some hacker who will waste it on luxury good and stuff. Still awful for someone to waste 500 million on stuff like that, but better them than some drug or terrorist or criminal organization. 500 million in the wrong hands can cause an awful lot of damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
First you need to convert it into real, cold money. And if you convert a lot of that amount in a small time, it will leave trace at least in the company that converts it. I can't see any company not knowing how much they convert it and from to, even being an untraceable currency.
For me looks like impossible, something must be left behind.
Lol yeah I suppose rolexes and fake boobs can't cause international crisesQuote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Says who? People doing shady deals just trade bitcoins directly, meaning it holds a lot of value within the drug industry even without being converted to cashQuote:
Originally Posted by Black Phoenix
Yeah. The reason you just put, is exactly why its good for illicit activity, particularly large transactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
In the case of illicit transactions. In case it was an hacker just for luxury goods (that was what I wanted to comment) it can be traceable. Do exists lots of shops that accept so volatile currency that today values 800$ (example) and tomorrow 8$? The good still holds his value, the currency used to buy it may be not.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
But it's only my opinion, since what I know about the cryptographic currency, and about BitCoin is only from the news in websites and others...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
He could not have been hacked because it's all about her, beside at this point nobody is talking about hacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Very powerful people are not too smart if they keep the coins online. First advice i got when learning about mining was not to keep them online, that's what personal enscripted wallets are for plus there is not any confirmation it has anything to do with Bitcoin even the article tajoh based his speculation on did not say so.
Probably if it was directly related to bitcom the info would be already public, I goggled it and also could not find any connection, here from Financial Post article.
If it's Bitcoin related the police investigation will sure find out, at this point it was not even confirmed by the police it was a suicide.Quote:
Steve Beauregard, CEO and founder of Singapore-based GoCoin, rented a room in Radtke?s Singapore home and was among the last people to see Radtke alive.
This wasn?t a bitcoin-related death. She had other things going on in her life
?This wasn?t a bitcoin-related death. She had other things going on in her life. Collectively, there were a lot of small factors. ? It appears she picked a permanent solution to a lot of short term problems,? he told Reuters.
And the Mt Gox troubles hit new heights:
and where it gets potentially very frightening for people who used Mt Gox...Quote:
On Sunday, hackers took over the Reddit account and personal blog of Mark Karpeles, Mt. Gox’s CEO, to post an angry screed alleging that the exchange he ran had actually kept at least some of the bitcoins that the company had said were stolen from users. “It’s time that MTGOX got the bitcoin communities wrath instead of [the] Bitcoin Community getting Goxed,” wrote the unidentified hackers, referring to the multiple occasions over its three year history when Mt. Gox has gone offline, delayed trades or suspended withdrawals, events so common that Bitcoin users coined the phrase to be “goxed”–to suffer from Mt. Gox’s technical glitches.
The hackers also posted a 716 megabyte file to Karpeles’ personal website that they said comprised stolen data from Mt. Gox’s servers. It appears to include an Excel spreadsheet of over a million trades, a file that purports to show the company’s balances in eighteen difference currencies, the backoffice application for some sort of administrative access to the databases of Mt. Gox’s parent company Tibanne Limited, a screenshot of the hackers’ access to those databases, a list of Mark Karpeles’ home addresses and Karpeles’ personal CV.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...ence-of-fraud/Quote:
In a possibly related incident, a user on the BitcoinTalk forum posted a message–since deleted by the forum’s moderators–claiming to be offering for sale a 20 gigabyte stolen database from Mt. Gox, including the personal details of all its users and even scans of their passports. “This document will never be elsewhere published by us,” wrote the user, who went by the name nanashi____. “Selling it one or two times to make up personal loses from gox closure.” The hacker asked for a price of 100 bitcoins for the database, about $63,600 at current exchange rates. ‘
Funny how all the "right-wing" libertines are frantically putting up a faux calm front as their "currency" collapses...
Bitcoin was never a good idea, and anyone who understands neumismatics knows this. All it is is another feudalist pyramid scheme. You're better off joining Primerica or Amway, at least at the end of it all, you'll have a closet full of overpriced detergents and several insurance plans that really don't cover anything.
I really wanted and still want Bitcoin to succeed, but ultimately it was like trading digital bottle caps. Without backing of "the full faith and credit of (insert country)" which usually entails the backing of not only physical resources but that country's standing army, there is no chance of stability for any cryptocurrency.
wangchung - you sir have hit the nail on the head.
i always believed amazon's digital money will succeed.