AMD Enthusiasts - NOW is your chance

As many of you know, about a year ago there was a belief that AMD would deliver a Steamroller based desktop CPU to plug directly into the existing AM3+ mobo and deliver a ~15% performance increase over Vishera on an equal clock-for-clock basis. The Steamroller socket AM3+ CPU seems to have been abandoned with AMD's reorganization. That however has not stopped AMD enthusiasts from wishing for a Steamroller based AM3+ CPU.

I suspect if AMD knew for sure that there was a substantial size market for a Steamroller based socket AM3+ CPU, they might still consider producing these, which would extend the useful life of the AM3+ mobos and increase the value to AMD enthusiasts who currently own an AM3+ mobo or who just want to continue to use AMD desktop CPUs vs and APU.

That being the case I decided to take a poll to see what the interest level is because if it's enough, I'd suggest that AMD give production of a Steamroller based socket AM3+ desktop CPU serious consideration.

Let's keep this to just an AMD discussion only. This isn't a debate over which CPU/brand/model is the best. This thread is meant simply to get some real numbers from the XS members to see what interest they actually have regarding a Steamroller based AM3+ CPU with approximately a 15% performance boost over the same clockspeed model Vishera and with the top end FX model (similar to the FX-8350 currently), having retail street price in the $200-$250 range.

If you post any comments with Intel in them they will be deleted. Let's keep this thread active and to a simply Yes/No response based on the above stated criteria.

There is an option missing for:
Yes I would buy Steamroller for AM4 socket with quad channel memory as AM3 is getting outdated. ;)

I will surely get Steamroller APU for my living room as I think it will make nice upgrade from A10 5800K.

Should I vote #3 if I have a 790FX AM2+ ?? :eek:

I suspect the current-stepping Vishera will not be the last chip on AM3+ but have heard nothing about yields or existing inventory of chips. It's anybody's guess ... whether it will be a new stepping of Vishera or 28nm Steamroller cores. Dresden has been great with new spins ... maybe they can do a Vishera mod at 32nm which rolls in some Steamroller arch/logic.

AMD has said Vishera will not be the last chip on AM3+ ... but that was before the FX-9's. I'm still looking for the 95w FX-8300s to hit America at retail ... it's been a long wait, so far.

You can order one from S Korea for $210 :up:

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Originally Posted by Lightman

There is an option missing for:
Yes I would buy Steamroller for AM4 socket with quad channel memory as AM3 is getting outdated. ;)

I will surely get Steamroller APU for my living room as I think it will make nice upgrade from A10 5800K.

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correct.... AM3+ is outdated and needs to be updated with pci-express 3.0 and updated sata III and usb 3.0 controllers (alot slower than intels options)...also quad channel would be nice.

If the performance is there and the total cost of upgrade isn't huge then sure.

Edit:
If they went with a new socket I would also consider the upgrade, but a new socket better bring new features with it (ddr4, sata express, quad channel ram maybe).

if its not on par with a 3770k then i wont be upgrading lol

AM3+ is not outdated.

The only thing related to AM3+ platforms, which can be considered as outdated is the chipset.

A quad channel memory controller would give no performance benefit over a dual channel controller.
Currently the bandwidth provided by a dual channel DDR-1866 (29.856GB/s) is not even fully saturated in most cases on AM3+ parts.
The performance benefit from DDR-2133 or higher can be seen in synthetic benchmarks only.

With the given, limited resources AMD should put all of their eggs in a single basket: A basket which says APU/SoC on it.
APUs / SoCs are the future in any case, there is just no way around it.

In case there would have been real demand for higher performance CPUs, we would been using a 10-core Komodos instead of 8-core Visheras. Komodo had 5 Piledriver based CUs in a single node and it would have been available for AM3+, C32 and G34 sockets.
It already existed as "release candidate" steppings before it was terminated and replaced by a cut-down version (4 CU) called as Vishera.

With the burder of the troubled manufacturing process lifted off things might escalate quicker than expected.

The APUs & SoCs are more complex than anything else the industry has ever seen.
A single chip CPUs have existed for 42 years now, while APUs / SoCs are around 37 years younger ;)
It has taken and still will require time and chip generations before they can fully close the gap.
Ultimately APUs / SoCs will fully replace the CPUs.

"Resistance is futile" :D

Let's not get side tracked here folks...

This thread is a vote on a Steamroller CPU as defined above, NOT a wish list of what you'd like from AMD.

As far as DDR4, PCIe 3.0, quad channel RAM, etc., I and others have noted for close to a year, that DDR4, quad channel RAM and PCIe 3.0 bring absolutely nothing tangible to the performance table nor will they for years to come, so let's just stay on track with the original premise of a ~15% performance increase over Vishera on a clock-for-clock basis at essentially the same price as Vishera, plugging directly into an AM3+ socket mobo. That's the question for AMD enthusiasts.

If you want to debate the other technologies or comparisons to Intel CPUs, please start a new thread of your own for that purpose.

If you don't currently own an AMD socket AM3+ mobo but you'd still buy a Steamroller to plug into an AM3+ mobo then you should pick option #3.

I voted yes on this (option 1). Not expecting to see anything though. Think my 8320 is probably going to be the last processor for my Sabertooth.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

Let's not get side tracked here folks...

This thread is a vote on a Steamroller CPU as defined above, NOT a wish list of what you'd like from AMD.

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Seriously... You're going to question The Stilt?... I consider him the authority on AMD parts!!!
And I'm sure he has a better handle on what needs to be done to get them back in the game.

Anyway, I answered your poll (with option #1), but certainly wouldn't hesitate to stick with AMD in the future.
I'm not sure which way that'll lead, but unlike alot of folks I have no serious aversion to APU's. HUMA and GPGPU looks like the future, so if it required a new socket, so be it...

Ignoring synthetic benchmarks, in real world use I'm quite happy with my AM3+/8350 rig... ;)

if steam roller would match socket 1155 or 1150 i would buy it over intel, but i dont think that would happen. (i have 2 am3 and 1 FM1 right now, but amd just was not enough for the current gaming rig.)



i would rather see desktop overclockable g34 or c32. am3+ seamed kind of pointless to me from the start when there was perfectly good server sockets that could do the job.

I would love to buy it but even if AMD did release it on AM3+ i doubt the performance would be good as the competition.

Maybe some 1090FX chipset. I have some bad feelings, if APU SR 3CU/6C could be so good as example FX-8350 with L3 cache...L3 cache is good boost performance for rendering and vide editing etc. For multitasking and bandwith too.

But, it could be Kaveri 2CU/4C in performance as now FX 3Cu/6C? What do you means? I wish enthusiast desktop with 8-12 threads...

3.
I also would like to buy a 95w fx chip on fm2+ ;)

People PLEASE just stay on topic and not go off with issues that are not relevant to the poll. This is NOT a debate over what AMD could or might deliver and how that would compare with Intel products - as I mentioned several times above. Take those disussions to your own thread.

BTW, I didn't question Stilt who I feel is well informed but his opinion is not always 100% accurate. I was concurring that DDR4, PCIe 3.0 and quad channel RAM will NOT bring anything tangible in performance for years to come and that the socket AM3+ and 990FX chipset are not obsolete as some folks falsely believe.

Now let's stay on topic and just vote appropriately based on the premise of a ~15% performance increase clock-for-clock of a Steamroller CPU over the current Vishera CPU, for approximately the same street price.

Most definately. my x4 955be needs to be retired @ 3.4ghz and set in a am3/+ server/media center.

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

AM3+ is not outdated.

The only thing related to AM3+ platforms, which can be considered as outdated is the chipset.

A quad channel memory controller would give no performance benefit over a dual channel controller.

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AM3+ topology do is outdated. Many Intel sockets and AMD own FM1/FM2 Processors got their own Integrated PCIe Controller, so the Processor can talk directly to the Video Cards instead of having to do one extra hop through the Chipset, that should possibily increase performance should some games be latency sensitive. AM3+ can't have that.
Also, it doesn't benefits AMD in any way to have two independent platforms, they should sooner or later get into the same Socket, even if they were to maintain CPU-only Processors (Like FM2 Athlons, but using CPU-only dies and not by die harvesting). In the case that they do get to share the same Socket, Quad Channel isn't required for CPU only, but it should surely help the bandwidth-starved APUs. It may increase Motherboard complexity, but if DRAM speeds becomes a limiting factor then its an alternative way to give the APU more bandwidth. Sounds like a solid foundation for a new, future prooft Socket infrastructure that could last a few generations.

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

In case there would have been real demand for higher performance CPUs, we would been using a 10-core Komodos instead of 8-core Visheras. Komodo had 5 Piledriver based CUs in a single node and it would have been available for AM3+, C32 and G34 sockets.
It already existed as "release candidate" steppings before it was terminated and replaced by a cut-down version (4 CU) called as Vishera.

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For Sandy Bridge-E Intel only had an 8-Core die, but for Ivy Bridge-E they released three different dies with 6, 10 and 12 Cores. I would believe that if there was no need for that much CPU power, they wouldn't even have bothered spending money to design and validate all those 3 different dies.
I suppose that if AMD didn't use that Komodo for Desktop is because the performance increase wasn't going to be worth the extra die size, plus the fact that these should have run at slower speeds that current Piledrivers, hurting the already mediocre Single Threaded performance that is still very important on Desktop. Add in possible yield issues. Assuming that Opterons are still based on the same dies that Desktop Visheras, chances are that it was easier to manage one die that they could reuse among several products (Including two dies for the MCM G34 Socket) instead of having to produce both Vishera for Desktop and Komodo for Servers.



I would prefer to see a bigger, standalone CPU Steamroller version with 4 modules alongside 2 module Kaveri with its GPU on the same FM2+ Socket. Should make a decent lineup.

If Steamroller were released tomorrow, I'd definitely buy one and migrate all my CPUs 'downstream' into the next oldest motherboard I have laying about.

However, for the first time I can say that if I were building a complete new system, I'd switch to the Dark Side and not look back. AMD's continual incompetence, increasing reliance of Marketing BS, and 'Chirping Crickets' policy on the future of AM3+ has rather pissed me off, and I no longer feel any 'duty' to support this miserable company. If AMD pledges to release Steamroller on AM3+, I'd go ahead and build a new AMD system instead. Until such time, however, they have succeeded in squandering my trust and long-standing support.

OP, do you intend to send the results of this poll to AMD?

Lol he works for AMD ^

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Originally Posted by tbone8ty

Lol he works for AMD ^

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Don't be an arsehole. There are a lot of people interested in a drop-in AM3+ Steamroller CPU if it were to become available. The best way for AMD to know what consumers will actually buy is to see real numbers. That's why this is a poll on a ~15% increase in performance over Vishera and not a wish list of foolishness.

I'm sure AMD can read the results for themselves and determine if there is sufficient consumer interest.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

I'm sure AMD can read the results for themselves and determine if there is sufficient consumer interest.

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AM3+ steamroller choice is already made and this poll will change nothing.
Do you really think that AMD are complete amateur and base their choice on poll's hardware forums ?

sometimes, if right people are at right place... ,-)

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Originally Posted by Olivon

AM3+ steamroller choice is already made and this poll will change nothing.
Do you really think that AMD are complete amateur and base their choice on poll's hardware forums ?

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You'd be surprised how fast things can change when there is a financial opportunity possible. Steamroller desktop CPUs were on the AMD road maps up until the end of 2012, for those who don't know.

I'd rather have Amd come out with a 6 or 8 core apu

But regardless they need to make IPC on par with a i3 first

I would buy an eight-core Steamroller FM2+ CPU (w/o IGP).

This reminds me on the old forum rant from few years, "oh I'd buy Thuban if it was made in 32nm". Anyways, I'd really love to get 8-core (16 module) Steamroller CPU (without APU nonsense).

as it stands now i'd buy a thuban. or a 960t. 32nm would be sweet tho. however imc for ram clocks and 970 chipset on my 955 do not agree. can't really overclock my ram at all on my board. ram overclocability + 40% more power on the new cpu would be my only 2 reasons to upgrade. the new fx cpus no doubt win at ram clocking, just waiting for the +40%.

If they get mitx boards I'll buy :D

At the moment I seem to be limited to FM2 (which isn't too bad, probably just going to go for a 760k)

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

let's just stay on track with the original premise of a ~15% performance increase over Vishera on a clock-for-clock basis at essentially the same price as Vishera, plugging directly into an AM3+ socket

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U can't be serious.
After am2, am2+, am3, am3+ u really think amd would release a new processor without trying to milk the cow a lil more with a new socket?
Deneb ought to be a "drop in" upgrade for am2+ too, but in most cases u needed an am3 mobo to really let it shine.
After bulldozer not being an upgrade for am3, not only socket but also performance wise, i don't believe amd is going to do the same mistake again.
Sorry if i rain on ur parade, but am3+ is dead, like is amdforme since the future wasn't fusion at all.

If steamroller, then in a way intel does it. F**k the igp and the socket it uses, give us computing power amd.

The FX-6350 serves me well enough not to upgrade to the FX-8350. But for a %15 increase in performance over the 8350, I'm in!!!

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Originally Posted by Mhudon

The FX-6350 serves me well enough not to upgrade to the FX-8350. But for a %15 increase in performance over the 8350, I'm in!!!

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Yup the projected Steamroller performance improvement would be ~15% greater clock-for-clock over Vishera, which was a nice improvement over Bulldozer so there is hope and more performance available if AMD senses enough demand. This poll could help clarify the situation for them.

Sure, 48 votes are going to seriously clarify the situation for them...

I'd like to have +15% but i think am3+ is dead.

I think, AM3+ could not be dead...only 900 chipset is definetely dead

The thread is about people wanting a plug-in AM3+ Steamroller desktop CPU, or not. It's that simple. The mobo and chipset are not part of the voting process for this survey.

Without a Steamroller AM3+ CPU it will likely be some time in 2015 before there is any new AMD discrete desktop CPU available.

I'm in 100% for Steamroller. I've been gearing up for it all year with good watercooling. However, I can go either way. It depends on whether AMD delivers or not.

If AMD doesn't provide some hope for a Steamroller CPU, then (with regret) it will be time to defect to the other side for a 4930k.

I recently just switched out my last AMD system to Intel so I'm now out of the AMD ecosystem. But with that said if AMD brought out a Quad Channel system say AM4? with PCIe Generation 3 with say 40 Lanes or more and the motherboards came in 8 DIMM SKUs (like X79) then I'd totally be willing to come back and give them a try.

I miss my 939 A64 3500+ rig for sure. :yepp: Don't give up on us AMD and we won't give up on you!

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Originally Posted by k0ST

Sure, 48 votes are going to seriously clarify the situation for them...

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:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Vicey

I recently just switched out my last AMD system to Intel so I'm now out of the AMD ecosystem. But with that said if AMD brought out a Quad Channel system say AM4? with PCIe Generation 3 with say 40 Lanes or more and the motherboards came in 8 DIMM SKUs (like X79) then I'd totally be willing to come back and give them a try.

I miss my 939 A64 3500+ rig for sure. :yepp: Don't give up on us AMD and we won't give up on you!

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Just an FYI that quad channel RAM, PCIe 3.0, DDR4 and more than 32GB. of RAM is marketing hype because the PC industry is desperate for sales. As testing has shown there is no tangible desktop system performance advantage to any of these technologies over existing tech because existing tech is not a system bottleneck. Maybe 5+ years down the road there may be a need for this tech but not for the foreseeable future. Those who don't do their homework are easily mislead into believing these technologies will actually show a significant improvement in system performance when they don't. It's all marketing fluff for now.

That being said, people should buy what makes them happy but knowledge can help you make an informed decision and not get duped.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

Just an FYI that quad channel RAM, PCIe 3.0, DDR4 and more than 32GB. of RAM is marketing hype because the PC industry is desperate for sales. As testing has shown there is no tangible desktop system performance advantage to any of these technologies over existing tech because existing tech is not a system bottleneck. Maybe 5+ years down the road there may be a need for this tech but not for the foreseeable future. Those who don't do their homework are easily mislead into believing these technologies will actually show a significant improvement in system performance when they don't. It's all marketing fluff for now.

That being said, people should buy what makes them happy but knowledge can help you make an informed decision and not get duped.

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Unless you actually use any of that technology. Like I use my 32GB of RAM. I use my Six Cores. I think it's kinda silly for you to make a post like that on this forum considering the audience.

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Originally Posted by Vicey

Unless you actually use any of that technology. Like I use my 32GB of RAM. I use my Six Cores. I think it's kinda silly for you to make a post like that on this forum considering the audience.

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Perhaps you misunderstand... I didn't say anything about "cores". I said that most people have no use for more than 32GB. of RAM on a desktop PC which is true. Using quad channel, hex channel, PCIe 3.0, etc. produces absolutely no tangible gains in system performance as documented by any number of tests. These are technologies that are typically introduced years before they will be needed so that industry manufacturers can adapt them at a leisurely pace as they aren't of any real value now.

Let's stay on topic please - which is a vote on a socket AM3+ drop-in Steamroller core desktop CPU.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

Perhaps you misunderstand... I didn't say anything about "cores". I said that most people have no use for more than 32GB. of RAM on a desktop PC which is true. Using quad channel, hex channel, PCIe 3.0, etc. produces absolutely no tangible gains in system performance as documented by any number of tests. These are technologies that are typically introduced years before they will be needed so that industry manufacturers can adapt them at a leisurely pace as they aren't of any real value now.

Let's stay on topic please - which is a vote on a socket AM3+ drop-in Steamroller core desktop CPU.

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Well in your post you brought up 32GB of RAM and DDR4 and I never mentioned those in mine so I thought I'd bring up the Six Cores thing, most people who wouldn't use 32GB of RAM wouldn't use Six Cores either. If you don't want to derail a topic maybe don't post to other posters taking it off topic in the first place, just a thought.

One of the poll options was: Yes I would buy a Steamroller AM3+ CPU even though I do not currently own an AM3+ mobo and that fits me quite well. If Steamroller launches alongside great board features like 8 Dimm Slots and PCIe 3.0 I'd be willing to buy it. I kept on topic the whole time.

Yes yes, we all want one.
Will a poll on a forum make it possible ? No.
Also @Maddias
Ive used a thuban and a deneb in my old 790FX mobo just fine, tested in my new am3+ and didnt noticed too big of a difference.It was motherboard maker problem with some and not with amd.

Some of you seem to miss the point of this poll... It's not how many vote it's what percentage of people would be interested in a Steamroller core drop-in socket AM3+ desktop CPU with the mandated ~15% performance increase clock-for-clock over Vishera. This poll and other polls like this on other forums are a reference point. They in fact can have a significant influence on AMD's decision to go ahead or not with an AM3+ Steamroller based CPU.

As the votes show a very high percentage of respondents would buy a Steamroller CPU for the AM3+ socket mobo. I suspect that a survey on pretty much every PC enthusiast website would show similar results. Thus it would be up to AMD to either fill a need, retain many existing customers and even gain some new ones or ignore what their customers are telling them they will buy. I just don't see the majority of current AM3+ users buying new FM2+ systems, but from the voting they most definitely would buy a Steamroller CPU.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

...This poll and other polls like this on other forums are a reference point. They in fact can have a significant influence on AMD's decision to go ahead or not with an AM3+ Steamroller based CPU...

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Ekhm, on what basis are you making this assumptions ? You either know something we dont, or you are just pipedreaming.
I and many others would buy komodo too, however as stilt said they were canned (that could be a REAL centurion).

@STILT
Are there any functioning komodo ES`s for am3+ ?

shame on those who march into a thread and start spouting flame bait. let the ppl vote. you can vote, too. leave your remarks if you have any. then have a great day.

it would have to be....

1. faster than vishera
2. OC better than vishera
3. have much lower power consumption than vishera
4. priced very very competitively
5. if all of above are met then i would buy one
6. if non of the above are met then ill be buying a 4770k.


and

7. AMDforME works for AMD :rofl:

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Originally Posted by vario

Yes yes, we all want one.
Will a poll on a forum make it possible ? No.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

This poll and other polls like this on other forums are a reference point. They in fact can have a significant influence on AMD's decision to go ahead or not with an AM3+ Steamroller based CPU.

As the votes show a very high percentage of respondents would buy a Steamroller CPU for the AM3+ socket mobo. I suspect that a survey on pretty much every PC enthusiast website would show similar results. Thus it would be up to AMD to either fill a need, retain many existing customers and even gain some new ones or ignore what their customers are telling them they will buy. I just don't see the majority of current AM3+ users buying new FM2+ systems, but from the voting they most definitely would buy a Steamroller CPU.

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I believe we would need a thousand votes to make a difference. So start voting people!

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Originally Posted by vario

@Maddias
Ive used a thuban and a deneb in my old 790FX mobo just fine, tested in my new am3+ and didnt noticed too big of a difference.It was motherboard maker problem with some and not with amd.

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what is a cpu without a motherboard?
did u test deneb on am2+ and then on am3 (both use 790fx chipset)? just a ridicolous update to have ddr3 support, but the cpu definetly runs better.
i even had to contact msi tech support in order to get a working bios for the thuban on my msi gd70. the jump in architecture from deneb to thuban wasn?t that big, but it was still too much for msi to come up with a properly working bios.
that?s all i say about "drop in updates"

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Originally Posted by tbone8ty

it would have to be....

1. faster than vishera
2. OC better than vishera
3. have much lower power consumption than vishera
4. priced very very competitively
5. if all of above are met then i would buy one
6. if non of the above are met then ill be buying a 4770k.


and

7. AMDforME works for AMD :rofl:

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If you read the criteria stated in the first post and follow up comments you'd know that the proposed AM3+ Steamroller core desktop CPU would essentially meet the above criteria that you have listed.

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Originally Posted by donitsi

I believe we would need a thousand votes to make a difference. So start voting people!

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I don't know if there are even close to 1,000 active AMD enthusiasts in this forum but the more who vote the better. It would take surveys in literally every PC enthusiast forum to get a sense of the real potential volume but the percentages tell the story. When 90+ % of current and non-owner AM3+ PC enthusiasts voting are willing to purchase a Steamroller based AM3+ CPU with the criteria stated which is primarily ~15% performance increase over Vishera, 125w TDP and similar pricing to Vishera, it's a no brainer that a Steamroller desktop CPU would be a viable business success. That is why it's important for people to keep voting because AMD management does take note of these types of surveys. :up:

I would love to see another release on the AM3+ platform but I'm not holding my breath. As AMDforMe just put it , very difficult to get a real number on something like this.

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Originally Posted by Johan45

I would love to see another release on the AM3+ platform but I'm not holding my breath. As AMDforMe just put it , very difficult to get a real number on something like this.

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The goal here is not to get a real number on the quantity of people who would purchase a drop-in socket AM3+ Steamroller core desktop CPU, but to see the percentages of current AM3+ owners and also non-owners that would buy one. If you posted this type of survey in every PC performance forum you could think of you might reach 20-30% of AMD enthusiasts so it's difficult to get an accurate sales volume number but based on Vishera sales, if the majority of current AM3+ users would buy a Steamroller CPU, then sales volumes should certainly be profitable and GloFo appears to have the capacity to make this happen.

With "yes" votes in the 90% range for a Steamroller drop-in, it's hard to argue that this wouldn't be a smart move by AMD.

I think that AMD is far too quiet on the future of AM3+. I think it's time for me to invest my monies elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by vario

Ekhm, on what basis are you making this assumptions ? You either know something we dont, or you are just pipedreaming.
I and many others would buy komodo too, however as stilt said they were canned (that could be a REAL centurion).

@STILT
Are there any functioning komodo ES`s for am3+ ?

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here is a question I asked him in the "AMD FX.. Centurion" thread.

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Originally Posted by demonkevy666

question what if it's 5ghz Turbo core ?

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here is the reply.

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

It would not make much of a difference.
The CPU power plane is shared between the compute units so the effective Core VDD would still be at the level requested by 5.0GHz Turbo PState. The lower clock frequency on some of the CUs would lower the power consumption just by few watts.

In the current form the Turbo Core is retarded anyway IMO.
It could be much more efficient if it would not just rely on precalibrated values.
:rolleyes:

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Now here is a fact the FX 9590 Has turbo core of 5.0ghz.

basically it's all speculation till it's out.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

The goal here is not to get a real number on the quantity of people who would purchase a drop-in socket AM3+ Steamroller core desktop CPU, but to see the percentages of current AM3+ owners and also non-owners that would buy one. If you posted this type of survey in every PC performance forum you could think of you might reach 20-30% of AMD enthusiasts so it's difficult to get an accurate sales volume number but based on Vishera sales, if the majority of current AM3+ users would buy a Steamroller CPU, then sales volumes should certainly be profitable and GloFo appears to have the capacity to make this happen.

With "yes" votes in the 90% range for a Steamroller drop-in, it's hard to argue that this wouldn't be a smart move by AMD.

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Agreed now that I see your logic. This may hold true for many Enthusiast forums, the +90% but I'm starting to believe that AMD isn't too concerned with the "enthusiast market" . They're doing well in other areas and the last thing they need is to release another "bulldozer" if you know what I mean. They're future is quite delicate ATM.
If they could come up with something that would actually challenge/pas the performance of their Intel counterparts, that could be a saving grace and a revisit to the "Good Ole Days" but are they willing to take the chance. Appearances are everything these days, can make or break a company.

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Originally Posted by Johan45

Agreed now that I see your logic. This may hold true for many Enthusiast forums, the +90% but I'm starting to believe that AMD isn't too concerned with the "enthusiast market" . They're doing well in other areas and the last thing they need is to release another "bulldozer" if you know what I mean. They're future is quite delicate ATM.
If they could come up with something that would actually challenge/pas the performance of their Intel counterparts, that could be a saving grace and a revisit to the "Good Ole Days" but are they willing to take the chance. Appearances are everything these days, can make or break a company.

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they know best about their partner foundry...

I'd love to see something

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Originally Posted by demonkevy666

here is a question I asked him in the "AMD FX.. Centurion" thread.

here is the reply.

Now here is a fact the FX 9590 Has turbo core of 5.0ghz.

basically it's all speculation till it's out.

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The Stilt seems to have access to many AMD docs under NDA, but he may not necessarily have access to all. With the FX-9000, I think he got catched off guard because the mammoth undertaking in infrastructure (Motherboard and Cooling) required to make an uncompetitive 5 GHz Piledriver possible looked rather stupid for what it was worth. I also thinked that the idea was unrealistic and quite stupid, specifically after seeing that AMD actually DID it.

AMD usually upgrades some white papers or code with information about die Revisions, so you can easily identify actually physically different dies. I did that once back at the time. Chances are that Komodo Revision appeared on some NDA document or AGESA source code then got removed from it after the idea was scrapped.

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Originally Posted by MadDias

what is a cpu without a motherboard?
did u test deneb on am2+ and then on am3 (both use 790fx chipset)? just a ridicolous update to have ddr3 support, but the cpu definetly runs better.
i even had to contact msi tech support in order to get a working bios for the thuban on my msi gd70. the jump in architecture from deneb to thuban wasn?t that big, but it was still too much for msi to come up with a properly working bios.
that?s all i say about "drop in updates"

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Heh, well i had thuban so no idea about deneb, however thuban is a deneb with two more cores so it is comparable, i switched from 790FX to 970,CPU in itself was performing and clocking near kidentical,only diff was in mem performance (duh).Whole problem is that most mb manufacturers wanted to sell you a new mobo so they werent exactly proffesional about their bios upgrades...
To be honest i was even more satisfied with mobo performance on am2+ than am3+,UEFI digi vrm apm turbo and all this variables make it harder to get top performance from a cpu.

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Originally Posted by AMDForMe;

That is why it's important for people to keep voting because AMD management does take note of these types of surveys.

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I really mean no disrespect and i voted, but, how do you know that ? Are you an inside AMD employee ?
AMD made a lot of weird decisions lately ,if that would be all that we need, wouldnt there be roadmaps for AMD server segment with SR,wouldnt there be komodos in server and high end desktop ?
I can tell ypu right now, that there are MANY people out there that were just so dissatisfied with BD/PD that theyre still on their AM3+ and phenom cores,they dont want the hassle of changing mobos, they dont want intels cut down cpus, there are many people who need high MT power which could be achieved with komodos etc etc.But Amd decides to scrap komodo, scrap server markets and mid end desktop just when they finally are on the verge of releasing a good core.Insteda they release a higher clocked PD with insane wattage and price :).
As for sockets.
People ,we have insane DDr3 speeds right now which pretty much over 2ghz are useless, 4channel would give us nothing,it barely gives anything on intels 2011.
DDR4 is also useless besides some power saving.
PCIE 3.0 IS usefull however only if you have SLId titans or at least crossfired 7970 ghz, however we know PD is too weak to drive high end SLI and crossfire seriously, so thats not a problem too.
AM3+ can be in market for another 2 years without too much of a hassle.
If you work in AMD, and you have any input about products, i can assure you, there is market for:
A new PD stepping
Komodo (10core PD`s)
SR core
all on am3+, because there are MANY people with am3+ boards and deneb/thuban cpus, and a lot of dissatisfied BD (and some PD) owners.
However when AMD does the switch to Fm2+ with at most 2module cpus, whole gaming /enthusiast market goes to crappy intel,because when people finally will make the change, theyre not gonna do downgrades.
However if SR for am3+ desktop would be even on the table, they would do first servers, because margins there are a lot bigger.And theyre not doing even that.

I had an XP-M and a 939 A64 and loved both dearly. I want to buy something awesome from AMD and I don't care what socket it has to go in.

The squeaky wheel generally gets the grease so the saying goes. It seems to me that if enough people really want a Steamroller AM3+ CPU with ~15% performance boost over Vishera, then they should say so. Right now AMD has no upgrade path for desktop users unless they want an APU and many folks do not. In addition the AM3+ mobo is still quite sufficient for most PC enthusiasts so to me it's a no brainer. We'll see how much noise AM3+ owners can make via these surveys.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

The squeaky wheel generally gets the grease so the saying goes. It seems to me that if enough people really want a Steamroller AM3+ CPU with ~15% performance boost over Vishera, then they should say so. Right now AMD has no upgrade path for desktop users unless they want an APU and many folks do not. In addition the AM3+ mobo is still quite sufficient for most PC enthusiasts so to me it's a no brainer. We'll see how much noise AM3+ owners can make via these surveys.

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We won't make a difference, I bet even if 10,000 people still voted they still wouldn't take notice. You seem very optimistic that AMD is willing to dump more and more money into a dying platform when they could be improving their APU lines which are far more popular, they just can't compete due to the amount of money they have and have a inferior fab compared to Intel.

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Originally Posted by vario

Heh, well i had thuban so no idea about deneb, however thuban is a deneb with two more cores so it is comparable,

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no the imc's were diff in thuban and deneb

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Originally Posted by m_jones_

We won't make a difference, I bet even if 10,000 people still voted they still wouldn't take notice. You seem very optimistic that AMD is willing to dump more and more money into a dying platform when they could be improving their APU lines which are far more popular, they just can't compete due to the amount of money they have and have a inferior fab compared to Intel.

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so we should not try to tell them what we want? yes... i understand. what kind of consumer speaks out none? suuure.

lol. My post got deleted! Talk about censorship at it's worst.

15 guys in a forum aren't going to sway any opinions. Sales and marketing charts and graphs do that.

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Originally Posted by i found nemo

no the imc's were diff in thuban and deneb



so we should not try to tell them what we want? yes... i understand. what kind of consumer speaks out none? suuure.

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We can tell them all we want but it won't make a difference for such a small niche forum when the money could be better spent in other areas. What about if they know they can't keep up with what Intel is currently out putting is there any point in them trying to compete?

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Originally Posted by m_jones_

We can tell them all we want but it won't make a difference for such a small niche forum when the money could be better spent in other areas. What about if they know they can't keep up with what Intel is currently out putting is there any point in them trying to compete?

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Well, for now Intel seems to be content with not competing even with itself.So a surprise attack from AMD ,IF they have the goods (ie the SR is good,optimized and not nuclear powered) would be successful.
And the "niche" isnt that small, there is really a big audience for this, cheap AMDers who dont want to change mobo in an intel swap, disappointed AMDers who bought BD or even PD and were underwhelmed that want something with claws to finally put in their mobos, people who need MT power without $ to buy intel 2011 setup.I have 5 friends with AM3+ mobos, one bought PD and was underwhelmed ,the rest is still on different phenoms because i could not with a pure heart recommend PD to them, and theyre gonna use this mobos for 2-3 years more.There are a lot of people who would shell out reasonable amount of money for a reasonable upgrade ,six core SR probably would be spot on for all these people, and 8 cores for the more power hungry like me.
To be honest i dont know how much money developing another die costs, but if theyre already developing SR for FM2+ , it cant be that much money.

Maybe we should spam whole AMD with email attack on this :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m_jones_

We won't make a difference, I bet even if 10,000 people still voted they still wouldn't take notice. You seem very optimistic that AMD is willing to dump more and more money into a dying platform when they could be improving their APU lines which are far more popular, they just can't compete due to the amount of money they have and have a inferior fab compared to Intel.

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Many folks don't seem to understand the situation...

Despite the myths and speculation perpetuated by the media and those with a crystal ball, AMD never said that they were abandoning the AM3+ platform. What they said was that they were:

1. Not going to allow Intel's Biz model to dictate AMD's Biz model

2. That AMD was going to pursue other opportunities - some of which Intel could not pursue and has not pursued

In addition AMD has never said that they would NOT deliver an AM3+ Steamroller core desktop CPU. It was removed from the road maps at the end of 2012 and some folks speculated that was the end of it, but AMD never confirmed this. For all we know an AM3+ Steamroller desktop CPU might show in H1 of '14, shortly after Steamroller based Kaveri is fully launched.

The point of this survey is to let AMD management know that the take rate of respondents which includes current AM3+ mobo and non-current AM3+ mobo owners is ~ 90% or better. Any company would be missing an excellent business opportunity with a take rate of 90+ %. The absolute numbers are not in question as AMD already knows the millions of Bulldozer and Vishera CPUs they have sold. Many of those folks would gladly upgrade to a ~15% better performing Steamoller compared to Vishera. According to this and other surveys the take rate looks like 90+ %.

As far as cost to make a Steamroller AM3+ socket CPU, it's a drop in the bucket as all the development work was done. All AMD needs to do is Fab the chip, which is simple in comparison to an entirely new CPU design as Steamroller is just a core evolution.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08...micro_opteron/

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

Many folks don't seem to understand the situation...

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You sure that's not you?

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

Despite the myths and speculation perpetuated by the media and those with a crystal ball, AMD never said that they were abandoning the AM3+ platform. What they said was that they were:

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Actually, AMD updated their 2014 roadmap which didn't seem to include new AM3+ products, and declined to comment on any unannounced products.

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

1. Not going to allow Intel's Biz model to dictate AMD's Biz model

2. That AMD was going to pursue other opportunities - some of which Intel could not pursue and has not pursued

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Source? Creative interpretation? Intel is unable to persue something that AMD can? Intel is roughly 1000% bigger than AMD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

In addition AMD has never said that they would NOT deliver an AM3+ Steamroller core desktop CPU. It was removed from the road maps at the end of 2012 and some folks speculated that was the end of it, but AMD never confirmed this. For all we know an AM3+ Steamroller desktop CPU might show in H1 of '14, shortly after Steamroller based Kaveri is fully launched.

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Usually removing a CPU from a roadmap means the end, I'm pretty sure that banking on a surprise release of CPU from AMD is a pipe dream. This industry does not work that way, partners want to know exactly what is going on so that they can plan for a release or begin marketing strategy, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

The point of this survey is to let AMD management know that the take rate of respondents which includes current AM3+ mobo and non-current AM3+ mobo owners is ~ 90% or better. Any company would be missing an excellent business opportunity with a take rate of 90+ %. The absolute numbers are not in question as AMD already knows the millions of Bulldozer and Vishera CPUs they have sold. Many of those folks would gladly upgrade to a ~15% better performing Steamoller compared to Vishera. According to this and other surveys the take rate looks like 90+ %.

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Okay, so let's say the listen to you (or us, or whatever) and start right away, they might be able to have a product to retail on 32nm by December 2014...
Unfortunately, they can't do that, they have sales figures for current enthusiast products, they aren't pretty, and AMD has very limited resources between $$$$ and brains at this point in time.

See here:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Imagine you are the head of the desktop division and the board comes to you and says "here's $5M, go bring us another product for the roadmap."

Do you put that into something that brings in $500K-$1M in revenue or do you put it into something that brings in $10-20M in revenue.

With a full portifolio and all of your R&D dollars accounted for, adding something like this means you have to either A.) hire more people, spend more capital or B.) cancel an existing project.

So, generally speaking, when you ask to add anything to the product roadmap, you are essentially having to make a tradeoff. Nobody is going to ask for more more money in order to lose money nor is anyone going to ask to cancel a profitable program to replace it with an unprofitable program. It just doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Based on this conversation I have a feeling nobody here is in the semiconductor business, so let me try to explain it to you.

Engineering samples are designed to validate the design and for partners to validate their systems...
(cut for brevity)
There are multiple steppings of samples, comparing one stepping to another tells you nothing...
(cut for brevity)
When we make engineering samples, we target the best yield, not the highest performance. Then we have more chips to work with. Typically you get a couple of the highest clock speed anyway, those typically stay in our labs, so it is unlikely that you see those out in the wild.

We don't even do any real performance analysis until we get the final silicon. Prior to that, we are totally focused on design validation.
...
...
...
...
Imagine making a cake. You start with a pile ingredients. You put it all in a mixing bowl. You stir it up. You put it in the oven. You let it cook. You take it out. You put frosting on it.

You are all looking at bowlful of batter and arguing about whether or not it is appetizing.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

As far as cost to make a Steamroller AM3+ socket CPU, it's a drop in the bucket as all the development work was done. All AMD needs to do is Fab the chip, which is simple in comparison to an entirely new CPU design.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08...micro_opteron/

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You have to be kidding. Desktop and Server products both have to go through extensive R&D. There are slight differences at design level between Desktop and Server products such as there were between Lisbon/Thuban/Instabul, and Server parts are tuned for efficiency, while any Desktop released FX processor will be tuned toward performance.

Good JF-AMD quotes. I recall back at the time many people asked him for a Dual Processor Motherboard with support for overclocking and he said there was no market for such a thing and how enthusiasts was a niche segment. That guy got severely discredited due to Bulldozer performance predictions and the rage against him that followed, but most of his other comments regarding business decisions stay true.

AM3+ and FM2 got two main differences. AM3+ does not have support for PCIe lanes coming out of it, and the connection to the Chipset is made using old HyperTransport. On FM2, besides that, Hyper Transport got replaced for 4 PCIe lanes to connect to the Chipset if I recall correctly. So basically, for Steamroller to be on AM3+, besides Kaveri they need a separate die that could fit on the AM3+ infrastructure. And no, they will NOT invest resources in R&D to do it for a niche market.

Well to be honest , as a current owner of Socket FM2 and AM3+ PC
As AM3+ is a "dead-end" platform , and AMD won't release any new chipset for it, why bother ?
If they launch a AM3+ SR , I will buy one for sure , but I rather AMD focus on the "new platform"

Maybe release a "6Core" SR on FM2+ (not likely as too large die-size and require new design , but hey , you can do that with Thuban , why not make a 3Module SR for FM2+ ??? )

Plus the FCH chipset provide more modern feature set support (USB 3.0 and SATA3 , especially)
is easier to sell both OEM and DIY market.

But I hightly doubt it would be possible as FM2+ is maxed out up to 95W TDP :(

Folks this thread is NOT a debate over if AM3+ is dead or not. This thread is a vote on a Steamroller AM3+ socket.

If you want to discuss AMD's Biz model or your ideology start a thread of your own.

Then don't start a discussion about AMD's business model?