Trying to choose DDR-III Memory Modules for 32 GB RAM (4 * 8 GB)

I don't know if this place is the correct to post this Thread because it looks to be mostly for just overclocking results. If so, move this where it belongs.


Currently, I have an Athlon II X4 620 Deneb RB-C2 with an ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO, and a GSkill Ripjaws F3-10666CL8D-4GBRM 2x2 GB 1333 MHz kit. I would want to update my computer, but I'm not gonna change platforms until I make sure that the IOMMU virtualization feature works properly on parts that I could purchase, and besides, both Haswell and Richland are around the corner, so I prefer to wait then upgrade the platform after they launch. What I can upgrade right now, is the RAM, as DDR-III still can kick for two more generations, so I would reuse the new modules. So the idea is to go for a solid 32 GB of RAM with four 8 GB modules that will suffice for all my virtualization and RAMDisks needs.

First, because I don't live in the USA, I have quite limited choices locally. However, I was thinking about the possibility of import some good modules with a middleman, there are some that get orders from Newegg and Amazon. Problem is that it usually takes 3 weeks to ship, AND because its rare that they test the parts, if they arrive DOA or I need to make use of the warranty, I'm screwed, because they have to ship it back to the manufacturer and the whole process could easily delay an entire two months. This means that they must be really worth it for me to do that.

Basically, what I'm looking for, is good a price-performance 4 * 8 GB kit or standalone modules. 1600 MHz is the standard, but considering that Richland is among possible upgrade options, it could make use of faster speeds for the GPU, so higher Frequencies are welcome if prices are reasonable. I'm not interesed in extreme overclocking or anything like that, and while I can overclock, I would aim for average or conservative values that guarants stability for 24/7 operation, so I will not push them too much.

The choice will be made upon availability (If you guys thinks that local options suffice), and price-performance. An example of modules that I would greatly consider are those value kits that uses curiously high bins like these Samsung Green. Curiously enough, the closest thing I saw at 8 GB modules are these two Crucial BallistiX modules, BLT8G3D1608ET3LX0 (1600 MHz 8-8-8-24 1.35V) and BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 (1600 MHz 9-9-9-24 1.35V) that seems comparable to the Samsung Green, but I have no references if they are good or not.

Budget is around the 2000-2300 pesos. For reference, the middleman told me that the first BallistiX module, that cost 55 U$D at Newegg, could be imported for 570$ and it can fit my budget. This means that it should be around 220 U$D.


Current local options are:


CORSAIR
Vengeance CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10 / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 10-10-10-27 / 1.5V - 1120$ * 2


GSKILL
RipjawsX F3-10666CL9D-16GBXL / 2 * 8 GB / 1333 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V - 1100$ * 2
RipjawsX F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 10-10-10-30 2N / 1.5V - 1150$ * 2
RipjawsX F3-1600C9D-16GXM / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9 2N / 1.5V - 1160$ * 2

RipjawsZ F3-12800CL9Q2-32GBZL / 4 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V - 2300$
RipjawsZ F3-14900CL9Q2-32GBZL / 4 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-28 2N / 1.5V - 2400$

Sniper F3-1600C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V - 1050$ * 2
Sniper F3-1866C10D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 10-11-10-30 2N / 1.5V - 1086$ * 2
Sniper F3-1866C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-28 2N / 1.5V - 1270$ * 2

TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX / 2 * 8 GB / 2400 MHz / 10-12-12-31 2N / 1.65V - 1457$ * 2


PATRIOT

Patrior Viper 3 PV316G213C1K / 2 * 8 GB / 2133 MHz / 11-11-11-30 / 1.5V - 1389$ * 2
Patrior Viper 3 PV316G186C0K / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 10-11-10-30 / 1.5V - 1352$ * 2
Patriot Viper 3* / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz - 1288$ * 2
Patrior Viper 3* / 4 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz - 2624$
* For both, it could be either the CAS 9 or CAS 10 version, don't have the actual OPN


Its very, very probable, that tomorrow I grab the Sniper F3-1600C9D-16GSR for 2100$ (Aprox. 210 U$D). But in case I don't, chances are I consider importing other modules.

You may want to check your owner's manual as the specs for the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO show that it only supports up to 16GB. of 1800 MHz. DDR3 RAM. 16GB. is more than most people will ever use unless you are running a RAM disk or have software that can actually use more RAM. You should also check the O/S that you are using to be sure it can use 16GB. of RAM.

1600 MHz. DDR3 RAM is all that is needed for a typical desktop CPU but for an APU then up to ~2133 MHz. shows modest improvments. Your mobo may or may not be able to support much higher than 1800 MHz. depending on the CPU and RAM used but you would have some reserve for a future upgrade. As far as performance there is no tangible system performance gains on a desktop CPU running RAM above 1600 MHz. with real apps.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131398

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

You may want to check your owner's manual as the specs for the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO show that it only supports up to 16GB. of 1800 MHz. DDR3 RAM. 16GB. is more than most people will ever use unless you are running a RAM disk or have software that can actually use more RAM. You should also check the O/S that you are using to be sure it can use 16GB. of RAM.

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Don't believe everything the manual says. This Motherboard was launched even before 8 GB sticks existed, heck, 4 GB modules were rare back then, so it makes sense they said "16 GB maximum" as they couldn't test with 32 GB. However, what matters the most here is the Integrated Memory Controller, and while I'm not sure about a Deneb RB-C2, I did saw Thubans and Denebs RB-C3 with 32 GB. I'm confident it will work, unless I hit a rare compatibility wall. Chances are that I will have to run them at 1066 MHz due this.
If anything, I will try to search for anyone with a 7xx Chipset era Motherboard with 4 * 8 GB just to be sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

1600 MHz. DDR3 RAM is all that is needed for a typical desktop CPU but for an APU then up to ~2133 MHz. shows modest improvments. Your mobo may or may not be able to support much higher than 1800 MHz. depending on the CPU and RAM used but you would have some reserve for a future upgrade. As far as performance there is no tangible system performance gains on a desktop CPU running RAM above 1600 MHz. with real apps.

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I'm aware of all that. Still, the point comes to how much the modules cost. If the difference between standard 1600 MHz modules and better quality, higher bins isn't that much, I wouldn't mind spending a bit more for 1866-2133 MHz regardless that they provide no real life improvements. They STILL are a better Hardware part.

Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.
KHX16LC9K2/16X for example is always based on 1.35V Hynix MFR variant.

On APUs the timings are completely irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the frequency.

On Richland you should be able to do DDR-1866+ with four dual rank modules.

zir_blazer-

It's not just the chipset that must be able to work with the DIMMs you chose, the BIOS has to be able to recognize and work with the 8GB. DIMMs which isn't likely unless Asus has found some magic. As far as the higher frequency DIMMs, they may be better binned parts but if they don't offer any performance advantage why would you pay extra for something you're not going to be able to use? It's like someone buying premium fuel for an engine that is designed for regular grade fuel. Pouring more expensive fuel in the tank doesn't make any more power or produce any tangible benefit, it just empties your wallet faster. ;)

That being said, I always recommend that people buy whatever makes them happy. If faster than 1600 MHz. frequency RAM is what works for you, great that's what you should buy. The RAM sellers love people who buy the faster frequency DIMMs because their profit margin is substantially better than on the 1333/1600 MHz. DIMMs.

I have used 2x 4 GB. 1866 MHz. rated G.Skill (Nanya ICs), DIMMs on FX-8350s OC'ed to 2133 MHz. @ 4.7 GHz. with 100% reliability under P95 for 25+ hours so that's another firsthand data point on ICs that work fine on the AMD 15h FX-8350 Vishera processors. IME the IMC's on the Vishera CPUs are better than prior 15h model CPUs. I expect the Richland IMC to be better yet with 2133 MHz. a common setting.

Quote:

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Curiously enough, the closest thing I saw at 8 GB modules are these two Crucial BallistiX modules, BLT8G3D1608ET3LX0 (1600 MHz 8-8-8-24 1.35V) and BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 (1600 MHz 9-9-9-24 1.35V) that seems comparable to the Samsung Green, but I have no references if they are good or not.

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I friend has this kit on Intel IB, 4*8GB, they can do 2133 CL 10-10-10-27 1.6v and 2133 CL 9-10-10-27 about 1.65v.
Up to 1.65v it's safe, but at 100% load they heat up quite good, for intense usage a memory cooler will be good.
Not sure how they work on Athlon X4 but on Vishera see under...

Quote:

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Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.
KHX16LC9K2/16X for example is always based on 1.35V Hynix MFR variant.

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You base your information on what?
Have you check the new 4GB/8GB modules using new chips : D9PFJ, D9QMS, D9QMT, D9OBJ?

I had Tactical LP 1600CL8 1.35v 4GB on Vishera, FX 8320+ Sabertooth 990FX rev.1
D9QMT chips.
Worked better than any other memory, even some PSC was har to stabilise at 2400.
2400 CL 10-10-10-24 1.6v Memtest stable.
Hynix CFR at least with Vishera doesn't work well, a 2666C11 Corsair kit merely did 2400.

Now on 8GB modules 1600CL8 are other chips than on 4GB, but still Micron, have same comportament only they stop at 2200.

Crucial memory at high capacity it's quite cheap and good performance.
http://i46.tinypic.com/308up6s.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/vg3mls.jpg

For the record the only frequency DDR3 DRAM that actually exists is "1333 MHz." Any other faster DDR3 RAM is just RAM that has been binned to operate at a higher frequency, quite by accident, not by design.

Thus you can have DDR3 RAM that runs at one frequency on one processor and not another or on one series of processors and not on another, etc. All the frequency rating on RAM actually means is that the particular DIMM or set of DIMMs were tested by the supplier on whatever equipment they use to validate frequency and it would run on their test equipment to the specs they use for testing. It doesn't mean that it will run on all processors or all systems even if you have the same exact hardware components as used for a given validation test, because in reality any ability to operate above the 1333 MHz. design standard, is by chance, not by design, regardless of how the RAM is advertised or sold, because you are actually running the RAM overclocked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xdan

You base your information on what?
Have you check the new 4GB/8GB modules using new chips : D9PFJ, D9QMS, D9QMT, D9OBJ?

I had Tactical LP 1600CL8 1.35v 4GB on Vishera, FX 8320+ Sabertooth 990FX rev.1
D9QMT chips.
Worked better than any other memory, even some PSC was har to stabilise at 2400.
2400 CL 10-10-10-24 1.6v Memtest stable.
Hynix CFR at least with Vishera doesn't work well, a 2666C11 Corsair kit merely did 2400.

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On experience.
I've tested Kingston and Crucial D9PJF / D9QMS (?) based modules.

They seem to put alot more stress on the IMC than any other ICs.
They do work but you usually need either to run in single channel or turn off the bank interleaving.
Atleast on >12h based APUs.

Hynix works great on all AMD IMCs, as do basically any other ICs than the ones made by Micron.
The timings on Hynix usually require a bit more work thou ;)

Well D9PFJ might be a little bad but D9QMT on Tactical LP 1600CL8 1.35v works. That screen with Memtest was only single channel but after that i bought another module they work dual chanel on Vishera, no problem.
See picture under.
D9PFJ and D9QMT are quite different. And what's on LP 8GB modules it's closer to D9QMT.
D9QMT works at much lower voltage.
Also the motherboard it's important, on Gigabyte they didn't work just 2000Mhz, on Asus even 2500Mhz.

Quote:

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Atleast on >12h based APUs.

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Well on APUs its a little different in special if you are using the IGP.

Quote:

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Hynix works great on all AMD IMCs,

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Hynix yes but Hynix BFR at least on Vishera, i have a validation using Hynix BFR at 2912Mhz.
As for CFR as i sad a 2666C11 kit was 2400 max stable .
And a friend with 2400C11 Kingston Predator couldn't do mare than 2300 on a Gigabyte motheboard.
So not even stoc frecuency.

2490 32M 9-9-9-24 dual channel.
http://forum.lab501.ro/attachment.ph...5&d=1361626411

I am sorry but I think this is a bit funny, someone lecturing the stilt on AMD lol. haha actually it isn't very funny, you think he only uses gigabyte boards or something? and only tested a few CPUs? lol
he is telling you what he found, even if the IMC wont fully support it doesn't mean it wont work and wont validate, but the guy doesn't want to validate he wants to run stable.

Absolutely,the stilt is one of the most skillfull and helpful people i've ever seen in www ,teaching him how things work on amd platforms is like explaining relativity theory to albert einstein lol :D

I'm teaching nobody, nothing.
I'm not have a big experience on AMD, only Vishera used 4-5 months.
D9PFJ Kingston kits are not so good as Crucial, and even Crucial may be a big difference kit from kit some kits can't do may be even more than 2000Mhz.
Tactical LP are completly stable at least on Vishera - Memtest stable at 2400 10-10-10-24 1.62v.
I used them 4-5 months on same platform.

Quote:

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Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.

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This sentence isn't true completly just that i wanted to say. For the Vishera things are not quite so.

And also Hynix CFR doesn't work so good on Vishera. On Deneb, Llano, i don't know.
On Deneb anyway you can't do more than 1700-1800 24/7.


D9PFJ on Vishera -still i wouldn't say that it's fully stable i used them only 7-10 days before selling them.
I know to run 24/7 stable, it's more than to be Memtest, Prime or whatsoever stable.
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...5&d=1365004202

While Stilt has most definitely been helpful and is very knowledgeable, his opinion is not always 100% accurate. That's why it's an opinion and not a documented fact. As with everything posted or written, people should do their homework and not always blindly take comments or stories at face value, regardless of who provides the info.

In the scientific and engineering communities people qualify their comments with "IME" or "based on my testing" or "based on research from such and such". This is because people's experiences and test results are varied and may not tell the complete story. This is why I have routinely recommended that people not make blanket statements based on their limited experience, without qualifying their results or beliefs.

It's pretty difficult to argue that a specific product or configuration won't work reliably when numerous people are able to use this product or configuration without issue even under stress testing.

The shop that I was going to purchase the GSkill Snipers from, said their provider got out of stock. This means that I have at least this weekend to figure out WHAT I am going to buy. After the DRAM price shakeup one month ago, high density modules here are VERY scarse and most shops I called are either out of stock or raised substantially the price. This means that I'm more tempted to import them.

I sended an E-Mail to GSkill asking for info regarding to what ICs they use in a few parts that I could purchase locally. As expected, they told me that they can't give that information. This means that I have absolutely NO idea about what ICs are in the GSkill modules I could purchase here. Actually, for most parts it is like that, so unless someone removed the Heatspreader and post the ICs in Internet (Like this Thread here, this one on OCaholic, this on Corsair's Forums, and this database on i4memory), I can't know beforehand, unless I'm purchasing a tried-and-true module where that info is available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

Stay away from any modules based on Micron ICs (Crucial is Micron).
Their ICs do no work properly on any AMD IMC since 12h.

For 15h parts (Kaveri, Richland, Trinity, Vishera, Zambezi) you want either Hynix or Samsung based modules.
KHX16LC9K2/16X for example is always based on 1.35V Hynix MFR variant.

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I have been looking around for Hynix MFR and I didn't really found more than a few modules with it. And 32 GB are at around 350-400 U$D price range, quite out of range of my budget. Any specific model recommendation? It is hard to get specific info on a module's ICs, so if someone knows good places to get info about that it would greatly help.
Also, it doesn't have to be specifically for Richland, as Haswell is also in consideration. Depending on price, chances are that I pick Haswell due to better CPU performance, altough the last word is with what platform I'm getting better IOMMU virtualization support.


BTW, I was just checking that in the list I made, I can get the GSkill TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX, which uses the Samsung K4B4G0846B IC. They are out of my budget, but I can get them locally and could force it if REALLY needed.
I suppose that what could make me happy the most are good-IC, value series, 1.35V modules with higher-than-1600 MHz capabilities in case I have to put them in a Richland. Sounds hard, huh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zir_blazer

The shop that I was going to purchase the GSkill Snipers from, said their provider got out of stock. This means that I have at least this weekend to figure out WHAT I am going to buy. After the DRAM price shakeup one month ago, high density modules here are VERY scarse and most shops I called are either out of stock or raised substantially the price. This means that I'm more tempted to import them.

I sended an E-Mail to GSkill asking for info regarding to what ICs they use in a few parts that I could purchase locally. As expected, they told me that they can't give that information. This means that I have absolutely NO idea about what ICs are in the GSkill modules I could purchase here. Actually, for most parts it is like that, so unless someone removed the Heatspreader and post the ICs in Internet (Like this Thread here, this one on OCaholic, this on Corsair's Forums, and this database on i4memory), I can't know beforehand, unless I'm purchasing a tried-and-true module where that info is available.



I have been looking around for Hynix MFR and I didn't really found more than a few modules with it. And 32 GB are at around 350-400 U$D price range, quite out of range of my budget. Any specific model recommendation? It is hard to get specific info on a module's ICs, so if someone knows good places to get info about that it would greatly help.
Also, it doesn't have to be specifically for Richland, as Haswell is also in consideration. Depending on price, chances are that I pick Haswell due to better CPU performance, altough the last word is with what platform I'm getting better IOMMU virtualization support.


BTW, I was just checking that in the list I made, I can get the GSkill TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX, which uses the Samsung K4B4G0846B IC. They are out of my budget, but I can get them locally and could force it if REALLY needed.
I suppose that what could make me happy the most are good-IC, value series, 1.35V modules with higher-than-1600 MHz capabilities in case I have to put them in a Richland. Sounds hard, huh?

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Kingston should be easy to aqquire, all of their CL9 rated DDR-1600 2x / 4x 8GB HyperX (except some PnP) kits are Hynix MFR.
The LoVo sticks use 1.35V (C) variant of the IC, while the rest are using the 1.5V (Q) variant.
Shouldn't make much of difference thou.

For Richland... Get something that does atleast DDR-2133.
Even with four double sided modules ;)

Do you know any other brand other than Kingston where I could potentially get these ICs you recommend? I have a serious hate against Kingston because in the local market, they're almost as expensive as the cheap enthusiast-class modules (The GSkill Snipers were actually cheaper that some prices I saw for 8 GB Kingston Value). They have a ridiculous price premium over other value or generic brands, yet people prefers them. And considering that the RAM market got TONS of brands, there should be plenty of other options.

Even with the OPN of some modules in hand, is quite hard to google them because you have to evade tons of results that are about the datasheet of the module/chip it uses instead of vendors that carry them. Oh, I also found that someone asked here about 8 GB modules with Samsung ICs, here, but there wasn't any solid model. He was looking exactly the same I do now. And according to his signature, he is running with 32 GB of GSkill @ 1866 MHz, so I think I can guess that he ended with either RipjawsZ or Snipers.

Mushkin uses the Hynix CFRs on the 1866 MHz. model 997007 2x 4GB. kits. They would OC to 2133 MHz. reliably for me on a FX-8350 on an Asrock 990FX Fatality Pro.

G.Skill and many other RAM suppliers except perhaps Crucial/Micron and Samsung, use whatever ICs they can get so this is why they won't/can't tell you what ICs are on a given DIMM at any particular time.

Are you sure, may be on the newer kits from this year?
I bought this kit last year in december and it had Hynix BFR not CFR.
A did a validation at 2913Mhz.
http://i41.tinypic.com/11ilr11.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/wu5wsz.jpg


Check this review to, also BFR:
http://www.overclockzone.com/zolkorn...007/index.html

Anyway CFR works to up to 2400. So 2133 will not be a problem.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/c...py-REDUCED.jpg


Yes I am sure that the two sets of 997007 that I tested and checked the end of '12 were Hynix "CFR" ICs. As noted above, the RAM makers use whatever ICs they can get. More than likely your DIMMs were produced before the ones that I bought. To be specific the ones that I have use H5TQ2G83CFR ICs.

The problem with these 2 * 4 GB that you are using as example, is that unless they were 4 GB Single Sided so a manufacturer can do a 8 GB Double Sided version with the same ICs, when you're talking about higher density ICs, you're always talking about much less headroom. They need higher voltages, looser timmings, and can't reach high frequencies, so if you get a 8 GB module, you can't expect it to overclock like that. This means that your good experiences overclocking 4 GB modules may not apply to 8 GB parts.

BTW, I was checking around and I found an eRetailer caller RAMExperts that do international shipping and has quite a bit of variety when it comes to 8 GB modules (And I saw there some nice Mushkins). The cheapest shipping option cost just 18 U$D, but I don't know if it includes tracking (It would be my first international order ever), nor how much time it usually takes to reach here (Usually 3 weeks I hear). It needs to be a solid package that doesn't get damaged by mishandling, cheap so it doesn't increase the cost substantially, and also I must get local information about how customs office deals with these packages because there are some shipping choices that are more likely to be audited that others and if that happens, I will have to spend half a day at the customs office retrieving the goods. And I would need to ask that they get checked to be in working condition before shipping, I can't deal with an international RMA. If they have good reputation I could seriously consider them, because if I can get them shipped directly instead of using a middleman, I would be spending 50% less or so.

xdan and AMDforMe, thank you both for those IC pics. Don't want to hijack this thread, but I just have one quick question for each of you. Does CPU-Z show the mfg date for your modules and if so, will you pleae post it? AMDforME, was that date that you posted from CPU-Z, or purchase date?

...we now return to the regularly scheduled programming "Trying to choose DDR-III Memory Modules for 32 GB RAM (4 * 8 GB)". :)

I don't see any place where CPU-Z shows the date unless it's a later version than I have which is V1.63.

The date I listed was the purchase date. I don't think you can easily tell the mfg. date.

Agreed that when you go to 16+ GB. of RAM the OC'ing potential drops, as it should with more load on the IMC. That's why it's beneficial to buy a single RAM kit of the full capacity that you desire and not multiple individual DIMMs or multiple kits, which will typically require slower timings to function without error, when mixed, compared to one single kit - per Corsair.

I didn't see it either, the memory was sold, here is a picture with Cpu-z:
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...4&d=1359624833
And i don't have a clear picture with SN(not sure if it counts like on G.Skill).
It's 0997007(which it's the kit cod)05959.....end with 0001
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...3&d=1359624815

Writted down every 8 GB stick from Mushkin and GSkill web pages, then looked for them at Newegg.

http://pastebin.com/3y5RCmBU

Yes, it was several hours worth of work.


I suppose I will keep adding brands and looking for prices until I narrow down to just a few options at stock specs. That stupid list at least makes it easier to compare stuff from one line to another and figuring out that at least in the case of GSkill, at stock, they're mostly the same. I would love to know about ICs, but there isn't enough info about that to bother.

RAMExpert has an eBay store and DOES ship internationally. However, I have to inform myself about everything related to shipping options and our dreaded custom office.

AMD Performance Edition (1866) and Radeon Gamer 8GB modules 'should' be either Hynix MFR or Samsung B-Die ;)
I'll verify it tomorrow.

xdan and AMDforMe,

Thanks for looking...if the info is programmed in, then it is found in the SPD tab, about halfway down the screen, and all the way over to the right (it will be the box just above the last XMP Profile). The box is labeled "Week/Year". Mushkin may not populate that field.

New list. Added in RAMExpert prices (That are noticeabily more expensive than Newegg, but the fact that they ship internationally could make them preferable for me, otherwise I need a middleman), several Mushkin modules that aren't on their main webpage, and some of the AMD modules.

I HATE discovering undocumented SKU that could potentially fill a niche. But worse that the missing Mushkin ones, is almost AMD entire memory line. They don't have any consecutive SKU/spec lists to be able to easily locate an specific model in Google, so you have to go through several PDFs taking note of them. And boy, they DO have tons of undocumented modules. The Performance 1866 MHz 2 * 8 GB kit that is available on Newegg doesn't appear anywhere on the Radeon Memory webpage, its like they forgot to update info on available models on the PDFs from the Performance and Gamer lines. I couldn't find neither the Radeon Gamer 8 GB module that The Stilt just mentioned, just that AMD released a 4 * 4 GB Radeon Gamer kit less than a week ago.

On the good side, the Radeon RE1600 AE316G1609U2K here, is by far THE cheapest 2 * 8 GB 1600 MHz kit and even got above average Timmings to boot! The 1866 MHz kit is 30% more expensive, and to be honest, for as long as the IC are decent (Meaning, that I have some headroom), I could happily settle with the 1600 MHz modules, because for their price they're I N C R E D I B L E. I just need to get them from a supplier that ships internationally at competitive prices. So far, for as long that you guys approve that module (The Stilt, I'm looking at you!), I think that I have made a choice... I just need to figure out how to get it here.

I'm dying to prove that this Motherboard does work with 32 GB RAM. Oh, did I mentioned that I'm using good old WXP SP3? Don't worry - I have an ace under my sleeve ;) I'm going to push the theorical limit of PAE.

The OEM for AMD / Radeon memory changed quite recently from Patriot to Dataram so there is no accurate info available for the ICs.

The Entertaiment Edition & <1866MHz Performance Edition modules are either Elpida or Micron rev. D/E.

Getting 32GB of guaranteed Hynix MFR based RAM for cheap is tough.
I'd say getting Kingston is the most certain and probably the cheapest way too.

If you don't plan to use the iGPU of APU the memory is pretty much irrelevant.
There is no noteable performance increase above DDR-1600 on CPUs / NPUs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

The OEM for AMD / Radeon memory changed quite recently from Patriot to Dataram so there is no accurate info available for the ICs.

The Entertaiment Edition & <1866MHz Performance Edition modules are either Elpida or Micron rev. D/E.

Getting 32GB of guaranteed Hynix MFR based RAM for cheap is tough.
I'd say getting Kingston is the most certain and probably the cheapest way too.

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Does this means that the AMD 1866 MHz Performance Edition modules are Hynix MFR, or not? If they are, they are also the cheapest around, so they would still be a decent, if more expensive, choice.

I could easily pay that 30%. If I pay with credit card, I get the official conversion rates so those 250 U$D are merely 1325$. The problem is that Newegg doesn't ship internationally, and I'm having troubles trying to find this AMD memory at ANY other vendor. This means that I will need to use a middleman for Newegg, and it would get to a bit over 2000, but still on budget. The problem will be if I had to RMA...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

If you don't plan to use the iGPU of APU the memory is pretty much irrelevant.
There is no noteable performance increase above DDR-1600 on CPUs / NPUs.

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The point is that as I still don't know if I will take Haswell or Richland, chances are that if I purchase slower RAM and go to a Richland, I would feel like I made a subpar choice on RAM. Also, due to the fact that I plan to do RAMDisk intensive use, I have the feeling that using faster RAM could potentially increase quite a bit I/O capability. After all, I will have CPU, iGPU and the RAMDisk all fighting for the precious Memory Bandwidth.

So far, its either AMD RE1600 or RP1866. Assuming I can get them in.

PE 1866 16GB SHOULD be MFR yes.
Radeon Gamer 2133 4GB modules are MFR too, but single sided..

The only service I found that could work for Newegg is Shipito, and it got great references. However, I don't know how much they would charge me in my local currency. There are many restrictions regarding Paypal and international Credit Cards (Newegg requieres a Credit Card with an USA address, so I can't pay directly with mine).

Meanwhile, RE1600 AE316G1609U2K price was raised from 95 to 119 U$D and RP1866 AP316G1869U2K from 125 to 130 U$D. Curse this world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reefa_Madness

xdan and AMDforMe,

Thanks for looking...if the info is programmed in, then it is found in the SPD tab, about halfway down the screen, and all the way over to the right (it will be the box just above the last XMP Profile). The box is labeled "Week/Year". Mushkin may not populate that field.

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The box is empty on both the Mushkin and G.Skill DIMMs I have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

The box is empty on both the Mushkin and G.Skill DIMMs I have.

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Thanks for looking. Can't share what isn't there.

I can't post a new thread. I really do not know why. But I bought this kit because it was half price for a limited time. I thought I could try my chance for the overclockability.

The corsair ddr3 ic is rev 3.24 which corresponds to micron. This is a cmz16gx3m2a1600c10 corsair vengeance 1600 cl10 2x8gb kit. anyone has an idea how far can i push this?

Thanks a lot.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1218/img1972p.JPG

Since these sticks are using Micron, perhaps take a look at these two thread for some info on overclocking newer Micron stuff.

These are for the regular sized PCB. There's stuff there towards the end on the 2x8GB kits:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1.5V-DDR3-Kits

These are the low profile, lower voltage, but there may be something mixed in on the regular kits, as well.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....err-Ballistix!

Also look for here...these GSkill Ares 2x8GB kits are using Micron chips so there should be some similarities:

http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/g_ski..._16gab_2x8gb/2

So far, the part about importing the modules directly from USA, didn't advance a single inch. What I did found, is that someone is currently selling the AMD modules locally, however, they're charging a hefty premium. Meanwhile, the GSkill Sniper modules price got LOWERED, and now are a considerable bargain. These are the current 5 best choices:


AMD Radeon Entertainment RE1600 AE316G1609U2K / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9-28 / 1.5V / 1340$ * 2
AMD Radeon Performance RP1866 AP316G1869U2K / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-27 / 1.5V / 1448$ * 2
GSkill Sniper F3-1600C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1600 MHz / 9-9-9-24 2N / 1.5V / 981$ * 2
GSkill Sniper F3-1866C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-28 2N / 1.5V / 1060$ * 2
GSkill TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX / 2 * 8 GB / 2400 MHz / 10-12-12-31 2N / 1.65V / 1470$ * 2

We're talking about a 36% price premium for the AMD 1866 MHz modules vs the GSkill Sniper one. I can actually get the GSkill TridentX for the price that the vendor with the AMD modules is selling them for, so I don't think they make sense at all.
The only reason why I would even think about spending more for the AMD modules is JUST because The Stilt says that they're using the infamous Hyper MFR. But unless I can get a cheaper source for them (As they should be priced very similar to the GSkill Snipers), I don't know if it is even justified. Do anyone knows what ICs those models of Snipers and TridentX can use? Because if they're "good enough", maybe I could settle with the 1866 MHz GSkill Snipers CAS 9 and call it a day.

The GSkill Tridents X are most likely Samsung. At least the 2x4GB kits, which were single-sided and had those exact timings, were Samsung ICs. Odds are that the 2x8 modules are the same, except for being double sided. They clocked to around 2500-2600. Here is a review done on them...except that it is a quad kit, instead of a dual kit.

http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?cat=articles&id=761

My guess is that this kit stands a pretty good chance of having the Hynix MFR

GSkill Sniper F3-1866C9D-16GSR / 2 * 8 GB / 1866 MHz / 9-10-9-28 2N / 1.5V / 1060$ * 2

I base that on the fact that my prior post had a link to an 1866 kit from GSkill with Micron chips and the timings on that kit was 10-11-10-31, as opposed to the 9-10-9-28. The AMD kit with MFR has 9-10-9-27 timings which is almost the same. This is of course nothing but an "educated" guess, but among your available choices, those are the ones that I would probably consider.

Here is another review of those TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX. Confirmed Samsung K4B4G0846B. Most times where you have Single, Dual or Quad channel kits with modules with the same specifications, you have 99% chances that they're identical save the kit markings for "guaranteed compatibility". GSkill is extremely predictable on this. Example:

TridentX F3-2400C10D-16GTX (2 * 8 GB) http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=513 (Product 513)
TridentX F3-2400C10Q-32GTX (4 * 8 GB) http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=514 (Product 514)

Basically, its the product that got released next, or actually, inmediatelly. No reason for it to be different.


About the Snipers, do you have source that they use Micron for 8 GB modules? If they do, then its very probable than the CAS 9 version is just a better binned version of it. Although the CAS 9 version got released some time later, so maybe it does uses different IC.

Sniper F3-1866C9D-16GSR (2 * 8 GB) http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=566 (Product 566)
Sniper F3-1866C10D-16GSR (2 * 8 GB) http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=546 (Product 546)
Sniper F3-1866C10Q-32GSR (4 * 8 GB) http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=547 (Product 547)

Mushkin is the other manufacturer that I found that follows a extremely predictable pattern, so you can draw some sort of timeline.


Also, remember that my target is the GSkill Sniper. The AMD Performance and GSkill TridentX means allocating too much budget on this, we're talking about around 36-40% more for no tangible difference unless I get a Richland.

Quote:

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About the Snipers, do you have source that they use Micron for 8 GB modules? If they do, then its very probable than the CAS 9 version is just a better binned version of it. Although the CAS 9 version got released some time later, so maybe it does uses different IC.

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In the post where I was responding to the other fella (my post #35) I linked to a GSkill review of a 2x8GB kit of the Ares Series, not Sniper Series. The reviewer pulled the spreaders and those Ares were using Micron chips and are the ones with the 10-11-10-31 timings. Since GSkill often just changes the spreaders on their ram and keeps everything else the same (such as the second Sniper, product 546 per above), I was postulating that the Snipers you listed in your post #36 were probably not Micron, but instead Hynix, as they had timings which were almost the same as the AMD kit reported to have MFR. However, since then I looked on Newegg's site and found an 8GB Crucial 1866 C9 stick with 9-9-9-27 timings (linked below), so now I'm not so sure and would have to say that it is possible that those Snipers are also Micron and not MFR.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148562

Without seeing the actual modules to note the coding on the S/N, if will be very difficult to identify the ICs under the spreaders unless you are looking at the high-end, where you know only MFR is being used.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reefa_Madness

Since these sticks are using Micron, perhaps take a look at these two thread for some info on overclocking newer Micron stuff.

These are for the regular sized PCB. There's stuff there towards the end on the 2x8GB kits:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1.5V-DDR3-Kits

These are the low profile, lower voltage, but there may be something mixed in on the regular kits, as well.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....err-Ballistix!

Also look for here...these GSkill Ares 2x8GB kits are using Micron chips so there should be some similarities:

http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/g_ski..._16gab_2x8gb/2

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Thanks for the help.. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reefa_Madness

Without seeing the actual modules to note the coding on the S/N, if will be very difficult to identify the ICs under the spreaders unless you are looking at the high-end, where you know only MFR is being used.

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Been googling the GSkill Sniper kit I posted earlier and didn't found a single worthy pic to have a guess of the brand of the IC used in that model according to the sticky IC Thread. Besides, I consider the TridentX "high end", yet they still use the Samsung ICs that seems to have minimal headroom compared to the Hynix MFR ones. I suppose that if the AMD Performance modules uses them considering that they're cheap, it is pretty much an oddity.

I'm planning on buying tomorrow. I would LOVE to have an idea of what ICs the GSkill Snipers 1866 MHz CAS 9 uses, but have had no luck. I could purchase the AMD Performance kit, but its ridiculous overpriced and I can't get it from any other source.

The vendor that has the GSkill Sniper Sniper F3-1866C9D-16GSR said me that the Serial Number first 8 numbers are 13022100. According to the SN Thread, x100 is Nanya eTT/uTT. eTT and uTT means Effectively Tested or Untested according this, and considering that it is a 1866 MHz kit, I suppose it should be tested, while the untested should be for their value line.

I don't know a lot about ICs properties, but considering that 8 GB modules are made out of 16 (Double Sided) 4 GBit ICs, and they must be from Nanya, it means that the possible ICs candidates should be...

(All of these links to the same PDF)
X8 NT5CB512M8CN-DI/EK/FL (1600/1866/2133 MHz, 1.5V, 78-ball BGA)
X16 NT5CB256M16CP-DI/EK/FL (1600/1866/2133 MHz, 1.5V, 96-ball BGA)
X8 NT5CC512M8CN-DI/DIB (1600 MHz, 1.35V, 78-ball BGA)
X16 NT5CC256M16CP-DI/DIB (1600 MHz, 1.35V, 96-ball BGA)

However, the Timmings for those doesn't match. GSkill says they are 9-10-9-28, while Nanya claims 13-13-13 for 1866 MHz. I suppose its possible that GSkill do some further binning to guarantee that.

Been googling around, can't find reviews or anyone mentioning them on forums and the like. I did found that some modules with these ICs were validated to be able to run 1600 MHz @ 1.5V on Richland. Anyone thinks they're worth the faith leap? Seriously. I want to take a decision. Today.

Nanya is not found at the top of the overclocking charts so if you get them do so with the notion that there isn't going to be much headroom, if any, above that 1866. And yes, I'm sure that GSkill binned them in order to be able to claim those 9-10-9-28 timings.

Newegg raised the price on the AMD Radeon Performance RP1866 AP316G1869U2K from 130 to 149 U$Ds. At this rate I will never buy anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zir_blazer

Nanya claims 13-13-13 for 1866 MHz.

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Shouldn't just 1866 CL13 be another industry standard (such as previous 1066 CL7, 1333 CL9, 1600 CL11 JDEC)? Probably Nanya won't test further than that on some of their ICs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zir_blazer

Newegg raised the price on the AMD Radeon Performance RP1866 AP316G1869U2K from 130 to 149 U$Ds. At this rate I will never buy anything.

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I just followed your link and it shows it listed for $131 USD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reefa_Madness

I just followed your link and it shows it listed for $131 USD.

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I swear by my mother that it did was at 149 U$D at that very moment. It was an spike that lasted 24 hours. Actually, that very same day, I found a vendor on eBay that had them at 134 U$Ds and did international shipping. Due to Newegg raising the price twice (From 115 to 130 and from 130 to 149), I ended up deciding to purchase them from that vendor (And after nearly a week they STILL didn't left USA). Two hours after doing that Newegg lowered the prices back to 132, like if they were trolling me on purpose.

Arrived in just 8 days from the date of purchased. Paid 268 U$D + 47 shipping for it, and some 60 U$Ds or so more on customs. And I just wanted to say...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AMDforME

You may want to check your owner's manual as the specs for the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO show that it only supports up to 16GB.

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O'RLY?



The first thing you will notice: Yes, its Windows XP. Yes, its 32 Bits. Yes, I am abusing PAE to make use of that huge chuck of RAM on a 32 Bits OS via a RAMDisk. And yes, scores are ridiculous low. So what? IT'S ALIVE!
PAE demolishes performance, specially in IOPS (Just 15000), to let you access that RAM on 32 Bits. I should still need to check if I can use another RAMDisk utility, because the one I am using, Gavotte RAMDisk, has naturally very low 4K scores. However, this one is free, and can use PAE. Most others I saw either couldn't make use of PAE, or requiered a paid license to make a RAMDisk bigger than 4 GB.
Don't worry, this will not last forever. After I sort my build issues to get a Motherboard with working IOMMU support, I will show what you can use this baby for.

I just finished 13 hours of Memtest86, where it did just two full passes. Testing 32 GB of RAM does takes a whole bunch of time.

I tried to run 1333 MHz 7-8-7-22 @ 1.35V, and while Windows was stable even for long periods, there are two modules that doesn't seem to be able to deal with it, as I had some data corruption on the RAMDisk plus errors on Memtest on a specific RAM range, above 20 GB. Testing it 7-8-8-23 didn't fixed it, neither, with the AIIX4 IMC set to 2 GHz @ 1.15V when I usually run it at 1.05V. So I had to go for 8-8-8-24, however, it looks rock solid now, even with the IMC at 1.05V.
I still had issues with a game, but I figured out the issue was reproducible on the HD install. Looks like the repair utility of that game doesn't have a checksum list up-to-date, so restores an older version of some files than the launcher upgrades. At first it indeed was due some minor data corruption, but there were a fixed set of files that were reported as damaged even from the Hard Disk install. Opening the repair utility after the launcher will say the files are damaged and restore it to an older version, while opening the launcher after the repairer will re-download the latest version, and so goes the loop.


To be honest, while I am happy that I could do an international order and they arrived in working order with no issues, at this moment I'm questiong myself if the Samsung ones would have been better. While Hynix MFR as epic scaling with more Voltage, the Samsung K4B4G0846B does better on 1.35V, that is what I'm using them at. I didn't paid attention to that earlier. Maybe this will drastically change after I get a new platform and would want to run them at 1866 MHz or beyond, but for conservative Voltages, the Frequencies and Timmings are better on the Samsung one.
Still, I paid a bit less for the AMD kit that what I was able to get the GSkill TridentX for.