http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ctory-in-china
Sure hope these types of working conditions change. These type of reports are becoming quite frequent.
Printable View
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ctory-in-china
Sure hope these types of working conditions change. These type of reports are becoming quite frequent.
As long as people want "cheap" iphones this is how working conditions are going to be. The Chinese government could step in but I doubt they want to do that.
And meanwhile Apple demands billions from Samsung because they feel abused.
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Maņo
Wow what a deja vu post. I thought the server had glitched and recreated a thread from last year or two years ago until I got to the Apple vs Samsung part. And yeah I do hope these things change, but it'll be slow. They come into the spotlight every once in a while, then disappear, and everyone assumes it's all ok now and goes on with their lives. And from what I've heard from my Chinese friends, Foxconn has some of the best conditions in the country. The others just don't get any publicity.
Edit: Rofl wrote Rendezvous instead of deja vu xD
Yeah, because apple is the only company that uses Foxconn. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Maņo
I know Foxconn work for more companies, but as far as I know, there have been problems only at Apple dedicated lines :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ
Apple has the fattest profit margins in the industry.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...-margin-2012-7
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4811...st-competitors
While foxconn has lost money last quarter.
http://www.zdnet.com/cn/foxconn-inte...es-7000003372/
Apple has such shrewd business people and they know because of the volume of the orders they make, companies like foxconn basically have to do everything they want on the terms they want.
Foxconn can only provide so much for their workers unless apple is willing to pay foxconn more. Considering that samsung for example still makes many of their high end phones in Korea such as some of the note and the galaxy series, while still making a profit, Apple can afford to make and pay money to foxconn to increase living and working standards for their employees. This should be particularly more clear when you consider the iphone is the industries most expensive massed produced phone(with giant profit margins). It might effect the stock price, but apple needs to keep the price of their phones the same(i.e not passing the buck on to the customers), pay foxconn more(hopefully foxconn translates this to better wages and living conditions for their workers) and lower their profit margins. Not ideal for business, but its the right thing to do for the workers. With the raises foxconn recently gave its workers, it has been struggling to make a net profit.
I am singling apple out on this because their profit margins are so fat(drastically over the competition) and they are one of foxconns biggest customers.
Which Apple has no control over.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Maņo
You have just as much control over it as Apple does. You and every other consumer of Chinese goods could decide to pay more for them.
If Apple pays Foxconn more, do you think Foxconn is going to pay the employees more? Get real.
Your giving apple way too much credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberration
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-expense.html
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/170a2...#axzz27XlityB1
Apple threatened to leave foxconn and asked for lower prices. Look at foxconn profit margins and you can see that they couldn't afford to pay more for their employees if they wanted too, they are at the limit. Apple just wants the lowest price possible. Being foxconns biggest customers, they can't afford to lose apple so they basically are stuck with making as little money as possible. Foxconn's margins used to be higher(particularly before they started working with Apple), but they have given everyone raises in the last couple years(which has cut their profit margins in half), which is contradictory of what you think foxconn isn't capable of. Foxconn margins have continued to shrink because of the need to build factories to deal with apples work loads and the aggressive bargaining of apple asking for lower and lower costs.
Apple makes a crazy amount of money off their products. This generalized idea that cheap iphones are possible because of the use of Chinese labor is ridiculous. First off iphones are not cheap. They are the most expensive phone out there besides fashion phones for the most part. They are also made at the highest volume, so volume discounts should make them a lot cheaper to produce.
What Chinese labor has allowed for is Apple to make the fattest profit margins in the industry by several fold. They destroy everyone when it comes to this which is ironic because they don't make any of their components until recently. They get massive discounts because of volume, power and threats.
If Apple was willing to give up some of this ridiculous profit margins and pay foxconn more, then we could potentially see a fairer wages for these workers. Why I think this is Apples responsibility is because their margins are fatter than anyone else and because they are foxconn's biggest customer. Because of this, it can have a dramatic impact. Apple pays foxconn 8 dollars per phone for the assembly. The iphone 5 has a BOM of 200 dollars and sells for 650 dollars. Apple can afford to decrease profit margins a bit, even a percent would make a dramatic impact.
It shouldn't be hard to understand that being being foxconn biggest customer, asking for the lowest price possible from foxconn with zill margins isn't going to leave much for foxconn to pay employees.
For some reason, I don't think the Chinese government has any problems stepping into matters of it's people's rights, or lack there of.Quote:
Originally Posted by safan80
http://www.infowars.com/man-crushed-...ese-officials/ *WARNING, VERY GRAPHIC*
This. I had to write a major report on Foxconn and once you actually research the issue, it is one of the best places to work in China. They have people lining up in the thousands for a chance to work there. The suicide rates of Foxconn employees are lower than the average suicide rates in China. All the crap you tend to hear is media sensationalism more or less.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari_freak
ALl you hear it the media talking about it, because they need something to talk about Apple :) Be it good or bad :)
What I always wonder when I hear about the conditions in China is what would I do if I were actually in power there or elsewhere? Could I do something useful? Or would I cause more havoc had I tried...
It's not that, it's the end result of capitalism and free markets... someone is going to get screwed over something massively so a profit can be made and power will get consolidated in the hands of the most sociopathic.Quote:
Originally Posted by safan80
It's not apple, foxconn, or the consumers, it's simply free markets at play.
Ok comrade.Quote:
Originally Posted by crash5s
Everyone bends over backwards for Apple's business because their volumes are so high.
They can leverage this for lower prices.
So they build up a really good supply chain, the whole labor thing is secondary.
You think if Apple lost their minds and voluntarily paid more for their iPhone assembly, that's going to the workers? It would go straight to Foxconn's owners and investors. Foxconn workers do relatively well compared to their peers.
So did this just happen again... over the weekend been getting news reports in my email about another riot at foxconn and its supposedly worse than the last?
can someone confirm this please.
just a strike, no riot. Apparently the workers were complaining of too high standard for the Ipho5. Also no break in national holiday. Foxconn denied the strike and all is back to normal now I guess. I mean if you want your product to come out high quality maybe you need better training and better materials. You get what you pay for, how can apple expect first rate product when they wont trow more money at it? I rarely see other makers as HTC and Sammy or Sony with these kind of quality problems.
you cannot make high quality builds with low quality parts. from what i understand with the iphone 5 they tried to increase load, split assembly lines, and had poor quality parts to start with. if apple or anyone really cared about quality and wanted foxconn they would have paid extra for taiwan instead of china.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoGeo333
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by zads
The point was that the workers got a rise FIRST. AFTER that, foxconn is losing money.
Therefore the extra "8 dollars" (or however much) per phone would go to foxconn to make them profitable again. Because they increased wages in advance of increasing their profit margin.
(Highly simplified, perhaps the market is dictating they would lose money regardless of any change in wages, but I just wanted to point this out because everyone seems to have missed that foxconn broke the cycle)
Nb: I've assumed tajoh111's posts & links earlier in the thread are accurate.
In fact I never heard of riots at Samsung or Sony lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoGeo333
samsung uses in house north korean slave labor not foxconn, and sony uses pegatron. dell, apple, htc, zte, and others have had problems, so that is basically every one using foxconn china.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Maņo
Samsung is in the south, not the north.Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
Unless they have been doing some secret stuff I never heard of.
Though, with there new leader it may be possible to setup some sort of deal, not slave labor though lol wth...
they were caught a couple years back using a labor for food program were the north would send people (slaves) to the south and they would do menial labor with the money they earned going back to the norths government. samsung also has/is building plants in the north korean industrial zone. they do use chinese labor companies though, i am just not sure who they go through.Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOAethyr
apple needs to get their act together because they cant afford any more delays in the iphone 5 or now the ipad mini
and foxconn is basically in control of that so i hope Apple realizes this is a make or break situation. granted of course the products will eventually ship... apple has always been notorious for meeting deadlines but now all of a sudden foxconn is putting a large dent in their business practice and thats not good for anybody including shareholders of apple
is there an easier way to track foxconn news direct from china ?? maybe some website I can see daily for any news about riots or protests etc over there ??
You sure they send those people to the South? Cause i thought Samsung had factories in the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
And the entire Samsung using North Korean labor is a deal the North and South have made i believe. To show improved relations etc and boost the North Korean economy.