Silverstone CW02 mods + best filter medium + DIY filtration box

**UPDATE** 05/05/11
Following some extra tips/advice garnered from here, I've decided to do most of the case modz myself.
I'll ensure I update this thread (along with the OCAU one) once progress is underway...
The primary focus remains modding the case, selecting filtration medium, & building a wooden filtration box.
LT I'll design/build a fancier filtration box, but I've opted for a simpler route for now, much more detail soon.
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This is what I've garnered so far as the options for PC air filtration:
*air cleaning/purifying filters
*air conditioner filters
*dryer sheets (fabric softener sheets)
Much less resistance, but also much poorer filtration:
*DEMCifllex
*pantyhose (nylon stockings)

This is a very good read, some quite clued-up users there!
Alas it seems skinnee hasn't done any detailed comparisons (that I see) between filtration mediums :(
Is anyone aware of any detailed/methodical comparisons?
My case is a black Silverstone CW02, it's still approx. 3weeks away from arriving.

I'll be modding the 2x 92mm intakes on it's base to 120mm...
And cutting an extra 120mm exhaust on the rear of the case lid, in line with the PCI/e slots.
I'll also be fashioning a mounting bracket for my H20-220 edge (AIO rad/res/pump from swifttech)
This mechanism will be bolted to the back right corner of the case lid, near the water tube holes.
The H20-220 Edge will have 4x GT AP-15* in P+P (possibly w/shrouds, YTD)

For the 2x intakes I was going to use 2x AP-14 (1450RPM)...
I was going to use 1x AP-15 for the exhaust on the lid (can undervolt), & 1x AP-14 for the other.
Or to be sure of +ve pressure, maybe I should use 2x AP-15 for the intakes, & 2x AP-14 for the exhaust?
Especially considering I'd be using filtration material on only the intakes.

One needn't dramatically reduce fan airflow with a high resistance (superior) filter medium.
One can get around the problem of resistance by greatly increasing the filter medium's surface area.
You do this & a standard (quiet) case fan's capacity to move air is no longer dramatically limited.

Subsequently I'm contemplating designing & building a filtration box to sit under my CW02.
I've been inspired by that google groups thread I read above, and this guy's handy work.
However I'd like to do something a bit less "ghetto-ish"... no offense dasa :D
It'd be all aluminum, but it needn't be brushed/sandblasted & then anodised, like the black/silver cw02.

The idea so far is that it'd be designed to sit under, & look like it's part of, my cw02.
It will be approximately 12cm in height, plus the same depth & width as the cw02.
The sides, back, & base of this filtration box will be non-existent, filter medium will be seated there.
It will prolly have an aluminum facade on the front, just so it looks more like a part of the cw02.
But I will design it such that this facade is removable, and more filtration medium addable.

Extending from it's top will be 2x Alu shrouds** that align perfectly with the CW02's intake vents.
An alternative concept I have in mind...
Is a funnel that encompasses the 2x vents, & then narrows to 1x 140mm intake at the filter box's centre.
This avoids having 2x intake vents right near the left & right sides of the filtration box, not optimal IMO.

Apart from dasa (thanks for the inspiration), has anyone heard of others doing something like this?
Perhaps there are pre-fabbed solutions out there?
If not, any thoughts on design approach & the best performing filter mediums are greatly appreciated!
Thoughts on design/build approach in particular, as I've no experience in this area & no suitable tools.
So I may have to come-up with a rough design, and then get someone else to fab. it.

Thank-you!
*This range of fans are universally lauded nowadays for having excellent noise to cfm ratio.
Whilst maintaining decent static pressure...
**Roughly the same height as the CW02's feet, or feet height + rack-shelf thickness.

sub'd to thread

he's subscribed to the discussion that is about to ensue

denser filters will catch finer dust but the denser you go the more restrictive it gets unless you increase the surface area

kinda like i did with this....
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83...titled-3-1.jpg
http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index...filter,AND,box

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Holy crap so that box your case is sitting on, is designed to attract all particulates to it, rather than the case on top?
Wonder how effective that approach really is...

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all air is sucked up threw the 4x120 rad into the bottom of the case which creats positve presure in the case so no dust can get in anywhere else (when the panels are on)

the case sits over a hole in that box and the box increases surface area to greatly reduce restriction vs a small filter hard agains the fan
after a bit of use it gets a good coating of dust on the outside which can be vacuumed off
the material i used isnt perfect though and it dose let a bit of dust threw

Here's a little more reading for you. ;)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209801

Fairly insightful thanks, still think the most profound reading was in that thread I linked to.
And dasa's thread was inspirational, got all sorts of images in my head as to what I can do now ;)

Women stockings are good filter material because of two reasons. 1) they are cheap, 2) they can be stretched at varying degree by doing what you can get different compromise/level of filtration vs airflow resistance. Only thing that i might not like about them - depending on filter frame you make or way you attach them (eg. by scotch tape) result might look geto-ish. As for few other filtering material airflow resistance, probably already mentioned thread from stickies may help (BTW, am i the only one that don't see images in it anymore?).

Just offering a link: http://www.camfilfarr.com/Products/S...panel-filters/

Not sure how restrictive some of these are but the pleated systems offer large area

pantyhose ftw

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/p...x/IMG_0703.jpg

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Originally Posted by ballzD33P

pantyhose ftw

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What are you using to secure that?

The real question to ask is how often do you want to clean your system? Because air filters will delay dust accumulation on your rads, fans and inside the case but they will certainly not prevent it.

And just for the record, "positive pressure" doesn't prevent dust from entering the case!

So basically with filters you will have to clean up less often, maybe once instead of twice a year without filters. However you'll get less performance from your radiators or you'll need to rev up your fans to compensate for the loss of airflow every day of the year.

As far as I am concerned I'd rather clean my rig a little more often and enjoy the better performance and silence everyday :yepp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

As far as I am concerned I'd rather clean my rig a little more often and enjoy the better performance and silence everyday :yepp:

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Agreed.

As soon as you put a filter on your fans you lose performance. And you lose more with every bit of dust it gathers. For some it might be worth it to have a clean(er) rig but I'll take the performance and having to blow it out a bit more often.

dude some advice.

if you can remove the mesh to clean it.. its not worth you putting it in the first place to catch dust.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

dude some advice.

if you can remove the mesh to clean it.. its not worth you putting it in the first place to catch dust.

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Don't you mean 'can't'? I can imagine having a dust filter that's almost impossible to remove is more annoying than the dust itself.

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Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

Don't you mean 'can't'? I can imagine having a dust filter that's almost impossible to remove is more annoying than the dust itself.

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meh i was thinking WL would catch me and not you.

:rofl:

yes your right.. cant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

The real question to ask is how often do you want to clean your system? Because air filters will delay dust accumulation on your rads, fans and inside the case but they will certainly not prevent it.

And just for the record, "positive pressure" doesn't prevent dust from entering the case!

So basically with filters you will have to clean up less often, maybe once instead of twice a year without filters. However you'll get less performance from your radiators or you'll need to rev up your fans to compensate for the loss of airflow every day of the year.

As far as I am concerned I'd rather clean my rig a little more often and enjoy the better performance and silence everyday :yepp:

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This is true. However, I don't think there is a universal "right answer" here, because I think the decision on whether or not to use fan filters comes down to a personal balancing test of noise vs. performance vs dust. Everybody has to find their own comfort level with respect to balancing these three variables. Personally, I hate dust, but I hate noise even more, and I am willing to give up some cooling performance to cut down on both. So in my current rig, I tried to find filters on the intake fans that cut down on the dust, but won't necessarily eliminate it either, since that would restrict airflow (and thus cooling) too much. So that leaves me with a computer case that now collects a very small amount of very fine particles of dust. After 5-6 months I have to clean out this very fine dust, but certainly not as often as I would with no filters at all (actually I could wait a year or more between cleanings, if I wasn't a neat freak, i guess). I am losing some small amount of cooling performance, but not as much as I would have with ultra-dense HEPA-style air purifying filters, which would presumably block much more dust. The only bad part is cleaning the fan blades as they get coated with ultra-fine dust, especially on the windward edge of the blades. I would like to get rid of that phenomenon, but haven't found a suitable solution yet. Well anyway, what I am trying to say is that there is probably no way to eliminate 100% of the dust in your case, as it will always find a way in. The best you can do is to limit the amount of dust that comes into your computer case, and how much of a dust barrier you use depends on how much performance you are willing to give up, or fan noise you are willing to accept.

When getting a filter... questions one needs to asks:

1. Exactly how fine is the dust particulate that ur trying to filter.
I can say within 90% confirmation, that the mesh filters dont really work well in our system.
It catches large dust, yes.. but the small ones go right though, and end up getting logged inside your fins, making things more difficult to get out.

2. How easy can you remove them?
As i said, if there not pullable on the fly... its going to be a pain in the butt for maintaince.
Your adding filters to reduce maintaince.. not give yourself a headache trying to get them on and off.

3. That being said, i still love open cell foam, the kind u find on AC filters.
They catch small and big dust, and the ones which have them are fully removable and easily upgradable.


So what would i do??

U know those magnetic mesh filters which are popular now?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ple-Rad_01.JPG

I was going to go out to a hardware store, get some AC filter... and then cut that up, then put the magnetic mesh type filter OVER the open cell foam.

I think that would be the best solution which i see as a filter.

I'd be interested to see if someone could make an ionizer that fed into the res. Should be as easy as poarizing plates in front of the res right?

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Originally Posted by m0r7if3r

I'd be interested to see if someone could make an ionizer that fed into the res. Should be as easy as poarizing plates in front of the res right?

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no... trust me.. we talked about this in depth..

it came down to, you would get ozone poisoning, b4 u could get the ionizer to be effective.

with all this talk of air filters I started wondering if some of the varying types of oval and rectangular filters for weber carburetors might fit the bill. (Just not K&N ones)

dammit, now I want to make a computer case to match my 22r.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

The real question to ask is how often do you want to clean your system? Because air filters will delay dust accumulation on your rads, fans and inside the case but they will certainly not prevent it.

And just for the record, "positive pressure" doesn't prevent dust from entering the case!

So basically with filters you will have to clean up less often, maybe once instead of twice a year without filters. However you'll get less performance from your radiators or you'll need to rev up your fans to compensate for the loss of airflow every day of the year.

As far as I am concerned I'd rather clean my rig a little more often and enjoy the better performance and silence everyday :yepp:

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positive pressure can stop dust entering if the inlet is filtered well enough but the kind of filter that could stop all the dust like whats on a engine would be far to restrictive
by comparison negative presure will suck a lot more dust in threw every little gap in the case

but i agree with you about small filters hard agaisnt fans i would rather not have them and just use the air compressor to clean the case more often

i found out that, any mesh filter with a dash of the silicon lubricant spray is good for trapping dust.

maybe you guys should give it a try. don't use oil however, it's messy

There is something else that is interesting is this discussion about filters. We spend a lot of time researching the best fans, we spend a lot of money buying them, why would we want to completely alter their performance and the noise they produce with a filter? :)

Dust is evil for sure, but some filters are restrictive and since most of them are already behind mesh or holes (which by the way filter dust as well) they at best half the airflow of the carefully selected fan. And by creating additional impedance, they add more turbulence and thus noise...

Knowing that then one can decide whether cleaning up more often is worse that lower performance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Holy crap this thread's exploded, now I remember why I love this forum! :rofl:
My net connection's been out for the past 24hrs or so, so many things to catch-up on, hope to get back to this soon :(
There's a few points made, mainly by Hannibal Lector (nice handle by the way), that I definitely disagree with :)

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This is only my opinion, but please convince me otherwise :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by churchy

As for few other filtering material airflow resistance, probably already mentioned thread from stickies may help (BTW, am i the only one that don't see images in it anymore?).

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You mean this one?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209801

Yeah i didn't find it to be terribly insightful, no offense to the OP.
The methodology employed wasn't as methodical as martin's fan testing etc.
I'm hoping there's better comparisons around...

I'm amazed skinnee labs hasn't done anything yet!? I'll check now.
I just want to know the medium that catches the finest particles.
It will also have amongst the highest resistance, if not "the highest".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

Because air filters will delay dust accumulation on your rads, fans and inside the case but they will certainly not prevent it.

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Even lab grade filters mediums won't stop all particulates, given enough time.

Quote:

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So basically with filters you will have to clean up less often, maybe once instead of twice a year without filters. However you'll get less performance from your radiators or you'll need to rev up your fans to compensate for the loss of airflow every day of the year.

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As explained, my rad's external & I won't be bothering with any kind of filtration, at least for now.

Quote:

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2. How easy can you remove them?

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The custom built solution I have in mind should make it very easy to remove/add the medium

Quote:

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3. That being said, i still love open cell foam, the kind u find on AC filters.
They catch small and big dust, and the ones which have them are fully removable and easily upgradable.

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AC filters are on my short-list of mediums, link to example you're referring to?

Quote:

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So what would i do??
U know those magnetic mesh filters which are popular now?
I was going to go out to a hardware store, get some AC filter... and then cut that up, then put the magnetic mesh type filter OVER the open cell foam.
I think that would be the best solution which i see as a filter.

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If you're suggesting putting it up against the main intakes, you'd get massive flow restriction, mesh filters alone are bad enough.
If you're going to use a highly restrictive medium, you need to increase surface area much more.
Having said that, I may still try those demciflex filters for use on my rad.
I will test how much impact it has on my 4x AP-15 in P+P w/shrouds etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jalyst

If you're suggesting putting it up against the main intakes, you'd get massive flow restriction, mesh filters alone are bad enough.
If you're going to use a highly restrictive medium, you need to increase surface area much more.

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Lol, knowing NaeKuh, I seriously doubt his 'fans' will notice anything from those filters. They're monsters I tell you :eek:! :rofl:

Anyway, I don't have my pc on the ground, which already saves me a lot of dust accumulation, and the fans are sucking in air from above, which also help prevent dust being sucked in. Even after half a year, there's only a little dust in my rad. So no need for a filter here :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexandr0s

Lol, knowing NaeKuh, I seriously doubt his 'fans' will notice anything from those filters. They're monsters I tell you :eek:! :rofl:
.

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WHAT i cant hear you..

im still facinated at the whines of my fans in unison that it reminds me of Beethoven's 5th Symphony while i turn my system on..

Whinee whinee VAROOOOOM~ Varoom varoom whine~


:rofl:

@jalyst: first of all about positive pressure:

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Yes it does, that's that's the whole point of +ve pressure.
Higher air presser needs somewhere to escape, it escapes to where there's areas of lower air pressure.
Which is external to the case, "so long" as the air flow out of the case, isn't greater than the air flow in.
This constant need to escape prevents any airflow "into" the case*, bringing particulates with it etc.

*except for the intakes of course, derr...

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90%+ of the dust that gets inside a case comes from the fans. Positive pressure will bring in less dust than negative pressure and a little less than neutral pressure. But saying that positive pressure prevents dust from coming inside a case is plain wrong.

You are trying to build a filter box, which is pretty common and is usually made with large fans. What I don't understand is why you'd want that filter box under your computer? This is very inefficient. These filter boxes are usually positioned near the air inlet in the room, where it is the most effective.

The problem with these is that they are ugly and you usually only see them in a work environment: you wouldn't want to have a large filter box in your bedroom or living room. And if you're trying to make it the dasa's way, it will become even uglier as it gets clogged up by dust. That's why the filter is usually located inside a box.

I misread your first post and thought this was about air filters for cases. Of course the discussion about filters for computer cases is irrelevant here, since the air is filtered before it gets to the computer. It doesn't matter if the airflow inside the filter box is low or high as long as it filters the air in the room. And since a filter box is about catching as much dust as possible, you want to create a negative pressure inside the box. I'd also recommend using foam type filters as they are very effective and catch different size particles very well. And you'll also need large fans if you care about noise.

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90%+ of the dust that gets inside a case comes from the fans.

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Of course, the intake fans to be specific.

Quote:

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But saying that positive pressure prevents dust from coming inside a case is plain wrong.

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Sorry but I'd still have to respectfully disagree there, the laws of physics must prevail :)
But you're entitled to your opinion, I'm not interested in debating this point further, too OT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

I misread your first post...

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You probably didn't with your 1st posts, but it looks like you have this time.
Since your 2nd last post I've substantially amended my OP, so that my goals are more clearly defined.
This thread is (in part) about a filtration box for my HTPC case.

I'm also looking at getting a HEPA room filter.
But that's for separate reasons, & not something I'll get anytime soon.
Try re-reading & adding your thoughts, if you have time.

Thank-you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Of course, the intake fans to be specific.


Sorry but I'd still have to respectfully disagree there, the laws of physics must prevail :)
But you're entitled to your opinion, I'm not interested in debating this point further, too OT.



You probably didn't with your 1st posts, but it looks like you have this time.
Since your 2nd last post I've substantially amended my OP, so that my goals are more clearly defined.
This thread is (in part) about a filtration box for my HTPC case.

I'm also looking at getting a HEPA room filter.
But that's for separate reasons, & not something I'll get anytime soon.
Try re-reading & adding your thoughts, if you have time.

Thank-you.

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:D The law of physics prevail indeed! We may be saying the same thing here. Dust will come in from your fans whether you use positive pressure or not. Of course it won't get in from other openings in the case.

For the rest, you have lost me. I need to re-read your OP when I have some time :)

I know you guys aren't fans of mesh filters but I've had some good xp with this Lian Li 120mm Filter Mount.

This coupled with Serpentarious' comment about silicon lub should work wonders... and if that isn't enough you could always stick on some DustX on top of this mount which would be easy to replace and collect the finer dust that the mesh filter doesn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpentarius

i found out that, any mesh filter with a dash of the silicon lubricant spray is good for trapping dust.

maybe you guys should give it a try. don't use oil however, it's messy

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It sounds like my setup is similar to NaeKuh (as far as loudness goes) - I'm using 120mm a Delta 210 CFM fan. Apparently the fan calls for 30 watts and it let some smoke out of my R2G when I hooked it up to the mobo PWM connector. The board still ran and OC'ed to 4.2Ghz but the VTT was no longer stable (fluctuated +/- .05v). I ended up buying an Akasa PWM Splitter so I could pull power from the PSU and still use the PWM on my new R3G. Sourcing the power direct from the psu made my vcore and vtt more stable than with my previous fans

Im happy with my tripple rad mounted in the front of an Stacker STC-01. I just vacume the stock filters in front, i do not even remove them from the case. Works fine :)

This is the case in question... & I'm in Brisbane/Australia.
I don't have any of the hardware to do it myself, basically I want:

-1x 120mm fan vent cut into case's lid...
-2x intakes on the case's bottom increased to 120mm (from 92mm)
-1x mount/frame for my rad+fans that's bolted to the lid
-MAYBE 2x extra backplate slots (horizontal?) for Essence ST daughter-board & mPCIe WiFi-N card
-And maybe this filterbox made, based on some sketches I have.

Although for the last item I think I'd like to "have a crack" myself 1st.
As I think it could be tricky/pricey for someone to do for me!?
I'll try once I've knocked-over a bunch of others things, & once i have the tools/material.

Perhaps there's communities like this where people have already designed something?
Although admittedly I'd prefer my own take on it, so that it looks like a part of the case.

Can anyone recommend some excellent/free CAD software w/a very low learning curve?
I don't need an uber sophisticated/$ suite, as it's a relatively simple project.
I'd prefer it to be available for OSX, but if there's nothing decent then Win7's fine.

Finally can anyone recommend some other excellent forums where I can post this?
Aussie-based would be best, but I'll take OS suggestions too! I've posted at WP/OCAU.

Thanks borg! :up:

Buy dremel & C-profile rubber edging to slap on cuts. Probably will cost 1/5th-half of what some modding shop will charge +you keep tools for future mods. Cuts with dremel really are not that hard.
Hmm, but one probably will need to drill new holes for fan screws on new larger holes too? Well, you probably can skip buying drill, as it being common, you probably can easily borrow it from some friend.
If there is some very noticeable error while making cuts, buy some spraycan of paint to hide it :)

Buy a couple of holesaws for the fan holes. that way you get a perfect professional looking hole which only takes 20secs to drill.

Mod shops for computer cases don't exists unless you want to ship your case for someone to do it for you.

jalyst: (3) don't know about very low learning curve, but google's sketchup is free (compare that to megaprices of commercial CAD software suites), and you can easily find lots of tutorial videos, that might ease learning.

If you take apart the chassis (which needs a drill to pop the rivets), any metal shop should be happy to professionally cut holes in steel or aluminum. You'd have to mark-up what and were, though.

Wonder of there's a local CNC-milling/laser-cutting service that'd fabricate these
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...01d6537032652c
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...ea6f6a33c6c2b5
There's probably already ready-made brackets like these that I can buy!
I will investigate more closely tomorrow...

Also I'm wondering once I've built the wooden frames/box...
What sort of mechanism I'm gong to use, to easily remove the filter material used on the rear & sides.

I'm thinking some sort of frame, that easily pops out of each of the sides.
And easily clamps on to whatever filter material I may choose, thick or thin.
And has an extra "mesh" layer in front of the actual filter material, to improve aesthetics etc.

I may be able to use something from demciflex, they do custom sizes I think..
Maybe they'll customize further by adding a clamping mechanism for the denser filter behind the mesh.
Or that route may not be suitable at all......