Sandybridge for overclocking, two solutions review.

Sandy Bridge appear on the horizon this year for overclockers. Some of us managed to get decent results from the new silicon. But lots of fun still awaiting us in Q2 2011, when updated B3-stepping motherboard wave reach the market. I was honored to test ASUS and Gigabyte top motherboard in a first wave, with B2 stepped PCH's, and stressed both boards quite hard for whole January and February, but no major issues on both. I had UD7 running RAID 5 array of three WD1002FAEX drives without issues (2 disks on SATAIII ports, one on SATAII).

Rev. B2 boards are still good for overclocking and 24/7 use, and while you run SATA3 ports (two native PCH-powered on each board) - you are safe, as SATA3 port transceivers unaffected by "wear-out bug". If you want my opinion on this - problem is bit oversized. But I understand vendors politics, it's not good if user loosing it's data/storage by hardware bug. Ok, back to review side now.

http://xtremelabs.org/media/misc/resize.jpg

ASUS ROG Maximus IV Extreme and Gigabyte P67A-UD7 for Intel Sandy Bridge

This report covers two flagship boards designed to run Sandy Bridge platform from enthusiast overclocker point of view. Overclocking here means pushing system to maximum performance possible, using all available tools and tricks, but also keeping stable and robust operation modes. Also there will be short analyze of hardware components used, their usability and overall experience. I decided to put some more light into engineering efforts put into P67 motherboards, rather than make lots of benchmarks and ton of useless numbers, which represent only few chosen configurations.

Configuration under tests:

Processors used:

Intel Core i7 2600K "Sandy Bridge" processor, LGA1155, ES D1 stepping.
Intel Core i7 920 "Nehalem" processor, LGA1366, Retail D0 stepping.

I've selected widely used i7 920 processor for already old but still high-end Intel platform, and latest Intel 2nd generation Core i7 with top SKU and unlocked multiplier, what is very attractive for overclockers. Unlike Intel hexacores, 2600K cost about three times less, and able to deliver very good results even on air-cooling.

Motherboards used:
ASUS Maximus IV Extreme for LGA 1155 platform, Intel P67 + NVIDIA NF200 bridge.
Gigabyte P67A-UD7 for LGA1155, Intel P67 + NVIDIA NF200 bridge.
ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution for LGA 1366 platform, Intel X58 + NVIDIA NF200 bridge.

As for motherboards selected - it's interesting how two high-end boards perform in various tests using same hardware setup. Workstation board with NF200 bridge was used for 1366 i7 chip.

Cooling used:
Skythe Yasya with stock fan + Nidec TA500DC 120x120x50mm 2.7A for cold air tests
Asetek Vapochill LS for subzero

For more real-world scenario I've just took random heatpipe-powered cooler with 120mm fan. Subzero cooling is reserved for extreme tests in upcoming extended article :).

Memory used:
Kingston HyperX DDR3 memory 2x2GB for both platforms (KHX1600C8D3K2/4GX)

Corsair Dominator GT 2x2GB sticks

Videocards used:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480
NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT for motherboard VRM tests
Fermi-powered videocard used to test 3D performance of new platform. Old 8600GT installed for VRM and CPU tests, to keep noise pickup and EMI from high-power videocard away from actual motherboard VRM measurements.

Storage:
HDD 160GB Samsung SATA2
Simple 7200rpm drive for booting OS, test apps storage.

Power supply:
Enermax Revolution 85+ 1250W
Solid and powerful power supply with quiet rails, just to be sure nothing limits us here.
Gigabyte Odin GT 550W
PSU for ambient tests on ASUS board.

Software configuration

MS Windows XP 32-bit
MS Windows 2008 R2 64-bit
BIOS for ASUS board - 0676
BIOS for Gigabyte one - F7A from 2011/01/11

Let me tell few words about used equipment. I wanted to learn how to overclock new platform, and how to make it stable and fastest possible, and that is mission impossible without continuous monitoring and adjusting critical parameters.

Fluke 87V True RMS DMM
Two Fluke 50 II series thermometer

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/lab1.jpg

So Fluke DMM will serve me as checking unit, to see what is happening with system, to make some measurements and adjust settings if needed, and as a reference meter, because it have industrial-grade accuracy (0.05% for VDC, 0.2% for resistance).

Fluke thermometers used for contact measurements of heatsinks and components, with help of thermocouples of Type K and Type T. I did modifications for these 51 II meters to achieve dual channel operation, better backlight and USB data logging ability. Data captured with speed 1Hz by 500 samples bursts, and then processed using Fluke Forms 3.5 Software. Accuracy of thermometers is 0.2% + 0.3C.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/tek.jpg

Tektronix 2246-1Y 100MHz 4-ch scope, precise analogue device, without sampling artifacts and approximation found in low-cost digital scopes. Oscilloscope was used for waveform capture, and noise measurements for further analyze. I will do peak-peak noise, level and timing signals measurements. This is 2+2 channel 100MHz analogue model. I use compensated 150MHz probe with internal 1:10 division and custom compensated probe for motherboards.

Logic analyzer using high-speed ALTERA Stratix FPGA - for PWM waveform observation and measurements. Logic analyzer will be used for digital measurements and digital bus capture, if needed. It's implemented via ALTERA SignalTap parametric module configured in ALTERA Stratix EP1S25 FPGA, able to analyze inputs with up to 300MHz. Logic analyzer uses Agilent 01650-61608 16-channel pod.

FLIR Thermacam B2 thermal imager

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/imager.jpg

Nice tool to visualize thermal effects and hot sources.
FLIR thermal imager provides help thermal analysis of DC-DC circuits in Tier 3 testing.

Host PC with DAQ (National Instruments LabVIEW VI's)
Own-made xDevs.com Neutrino ES for DC power measurements

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/m4e_ate.jpg

Host PC running NI LabVIEW collect data from my custom devices used during tests, process results and show measurements as comfortable and flexible GUI. This relates to DC power measurements and voltages monitoring for Sandy bridge platform.

My 8-channel digital logging meter was also used for adjusts.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/hc1mt.jpg

Boards overview

Before we continue with tortures and benchmarks, let’s take small tour to motherboards features and details.

ASUS Maximus IV Extreme

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/top.jpg

Color scheme is similar to other ROG series motherboards, consists of dark gray and red colors. All expansion slots for cards are PCI-Express,
four with x16 physical size (three of them have x16 routed lanes, and one x8), one x1 and last one is x4 with open side, allowing bigger cards
to be installed. NF200 is connected to second and fourth slot. Slot latches are robust big dual-side type, which are not always comfortable to use
with tight multi-GPU setups.

Board have lots of headers for fans, two near 24-pin ATX power input, two near DIMMs, two more near PLX bridge, and two above CPU power circuitry.
Total amount is eight fan connectors, so overclockers will enjoy that. All of them are 4-pin type.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/back.jpg

Board dimension is 305 x 269, what is called Extended ATX, so better do double check if it fit specific
enclosure. I will run everything caseless, so zero issues here.

Gigabyte P67A-UD7

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_top.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_back.jpg

Gigabyte board is standard ATX, 305 x 244, so it can fit most cases easy.

Unlike Maximus, P67A-UD7 have four physically full-size PCI-Express slots, one x1 slot, and pair of legacy PCI maintained by ITE hub.

There 6 fan connectors onboard, two of them 4-pin type, rest are legacy 3 pin.

Both boards are based on Intel P67 Express chipset, with four DDR3 slots, just like most P67 boards. Both are using 8-layered PCB.
Both have debug POST 80h indicator, total eight SATA ports, some including SATA3 support, Power/reset buttons and few LEDs for monitoring.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/p67_pch.jpg

Expansion connectors

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/back_io.jpg

Rear I/O looks full of connectors, with nice bluish SuperSpeed USB 3.0 ports, dual GbE ports, sound, FireWire and SATA connectivity. ASUS board is on top part of image, Gigabyte - bottom. There are also CMOS clear button and remote overclocking button with featured port (vertical standing USB port). If remote OC not needed - USB port may be used just as normal one.

Circuitry analysis

Power convertors

Both boards use variety of different power DC-DC convertors. I will introduce them one by one.

CPU VCC power - this is main CPU power circuitry which provide juice for CPU cores together with integrated GPU.

ASUS Maximus IV Extreme board

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/cpuvrm.jpg

Based on proprietary "ASUS Extreme Engine Digi+" chipset.
Actually it uses CHIL drivers (CHL8510) for phase control, so looks like it's CHIL PWM solution adapted for ASUS use. Convertor is built using high-frequency 8-phase design with synchronous buck topology with extensive voltage and current control. This advanced VRM is able to run at high switching frequency near 1MHz.

Each phase consists of four (one pair for high-side, second pair for low-side) Infineon mosfets in advanced metal CanPAK packages. These transistors have very low resistance in active state, thus reducing parasitic power loss and enhancing efficiency. Also metal package allows much better thermal dissipation, lowering operation temperature. There is good public illustration compared to SO-8 MOSFETs. More efficiency and better cooling mean that more power can be transferred to load without critical overheating, which is essential in case of overclocking. Such components are already seen on high-end motherboards and videocards, like Rampage III Extreme, custom-designed Fermi videocards.

Output inductors used seems like metal alloy Trio LM-68B, 0.68uH with rated current 28A per each and 1.38 mOhm DCR.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/phase.jpg

Each phase is controlled by dedicated driver in small lid-less package nearby. Drivers converting PWM signal from main power controller to driving signals for discrete MOSFETs. Using driver chips allows engineers to simplify design of high-current switching power supply by reducing length of driving signals, and adding more sophisticated control and protection circuitry to overall system. Back side of VRM covered by aluminum heatsink plate, just for better thermal.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/backplate.jpg

Power from input +12V rail decoupled in four low-esr input capacitors, 270uF 16V each. Output power plane for CPU Vcore have total bulk capacitance about 5820 uF, consisting from 6 low-esr aluminum can capacitors (820uF 3V each) and one NEC/TOKIN Proadlizer PF/A cap with 900uF 2.5V rating. These polymer capacitors help to reduce fast transient spikes and have very low ESR, about 1.5 mOhm by spec.

This voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 0.800 to 2.155V, with 5mV step.

CPU VCCSA power

System agent is a part of Sandy Bridge CPU which controls communications, in a way like legacy northbridge did. SA is not as power hungry device as CPU cores so it take power from simple synchronous buck DC-DC based on uP6203B and pair of phases. Each phase feature NXP PH5030AL NFET and PH9025L for high side. Both FETs able to push more than 60A.
Input capacitor - 2 x 270uF 16V, output - two 820uF 3V caps. Each phase use small 1uH inductors for energy storage.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/auxpwr.jpg

This voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 0.800 to 1.7V, with 6.25mV step.

CPU VCCPLL power

Phase-Locked Loop autotunes adjustable frequency source to have stable and precise clock output. It is used widely in digital systems to multiply/divide clocks, filtering and clock recovery. Its power should be as clean as possible to have highest stability achievable. PLL's don't need lots of energy so on ASUS Maximus IV Extreme it's powered by small DC-DC.

This voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 1.200 to 2.2V, with 6.25mV step.

CPU VCCIO power

CPU internals like cores or GPU use low voltage for operation, but output signals usually driven at 1.5-1.8 or more volts, like DDR3 memory chips or PCI-Express signaling. So I/O voltage is taken externally and used as base level for external interfaces. This voltage was often called VTT/QPI, VTT/DRAM etc on previous P55 and X58 chipsets. VCCIO usually affects DRAM overclocking and memory controller performance, like in older platforms before Sandy Bridge. It's fed by quite decent 2-phase synchronous buck controlled by uPI Semiconductor uP6203B. Except the DC-DC controller, both phases use same components as main Vcore VRM. Input capacitors include two 270uF LowESR 16V and output is decoupled by 3 x 820uF (2460uF total).

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/vccio.jpg

This voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 0.800 to 1.7V, with 6.25mV step.

So there are quite a few main power sources for Sandy Bridge CPU's.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/cpupwr.jpg

DRAM VCC power

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/mempwr.jpg

Memory sticks take power from triple phase power supply with 0.68uH coils, powered by PH7030AL + PH7030AL NFETs. Each FET can push 50+ A current. Power supply controlled by uPI uP6207. There are four input capacitors, 560uF 6.3V each, and eight 560uF 6.3v for VDIMM plane. Total decoupling capacitance for memory is near 4500uF, making DIMM voltage solid and steady.

This voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 1.200 to 2.2V, with 6.25mV step.

NF200 power

Use single phase maintained by Richtek RT8100A. Phase feature doubled PH7030AL pair (2 FET for high-side and 2 for low-side) and 0.68uH inductor similar to those used in VDIMM, VIO and Vcore convertors.

Nice feature present on ASUS Maximus IV Extreme - power disabled by hardware for NF200, so it will not produce any heat air when not used. Until you put PCI-E card into second or fourth PCI-Express slot - it's totally disabled.

This voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 1.1925 to 1.5105V, with 13.25mV step. Standard voltage level for NF200 is 1.2 V.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/pchpwr.jpg

PCH power and PCH PLL

Similar to CPU PLL, but used for clock conversion in PCH.
Use two RT8100A-based single-phase convertors, with pair of 4800AGM N-channel FETs in SO8 package. No need for insane power here.
Inductors used in both convertors are 2.2uH.

PCH and PCH PLL voltages adjustable from BIOS, in range 0.80825 to 1.70925V, with 13.25mV step.

PLX Bridge PEX8608 uses APM7120 controller for its power. In rest it's same as PCH power power solution. There is pair of 560uF bulk caps for decoupling near by. It's voltage not adjustable from BIOS.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/brplx.jpg

Extra onboard controllers, like integrated sound-card, Super I/O chip, Ethernet chips, SAS/SATA, USB controllers usually need small amount of power, so they fed by simple linear low-drop regulators (LDO's) similar to LM1117. Output voltages usually vary from 1.2 to 3.3V.

Add-on ports and controllers

Both boards have USB 3.0 NEC hub, well known already by P55/X58 boards with SuperSpeed ports.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/usb_nec.jpg

ASUS also choose to use quad-port VIA VL810 hub switch made with 80nm node tech process.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/usb_br.jpg

Let's switch to Gigabyte high-end motherboard for Core i7 2000 series CPU.

Vcore

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/cpu_vrm.jpg

Main VRM covered under nice-looking heatsink with "7" labeling. UD5 have blue decoration and "5" :). I like the design of new P67A boards, they look much more high-end than previous cyan boards.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_mvrm.jpg

Lots of inductor coils. Lots. 24 of them. Looks great, but none of consumer PWM power controller support 24 phase operation directly. Most advanced devices, like Volterra 1185MF able to control 10 phases. So we have here phase split, when one PWM channel used to control more than one physical buck circuitry. By simple calculation we get here 6-channel PWM topology.
6 real phases * 2 (double) * 2 more = needed "24" phase. But if you add something at one side, it's always a sacrifice in something other. Let me show schematic view, where topology will look like this:

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/vcore.png

There is no technical need to make such complex system. Having more phases does not mean that CPU will get more power. Multi-phase systems made because it's simpler to spread big high-current load to separate nodes, so each node converts only part of whole power needed. But having too much nodes may lead to excessive noise and voltage deviation, because it's more difficult to control many nodes with high-speed PWM channels. As in general it's better to have some golden middle solution.

So Vcore for CPU is controlled by Intersil ISL6366 chip. PWM signals go to frequency divider (small chips with 5 pins each side, labeled 617C FLBK). Frequency divider takes input signal, in our case 1000kHz from ISL6366 PWM channel and make two output signals with half frequency (inverted+normal). Then these two outputs are divided again by two more frequency dividers, whose outputs are finally drive DMOS chips at 1/4th frequency of original input PWM signal, 250kHz in out case. Each DMOS chip is a hybrid IC with two MOSFETs and their driver. So each PWM channel from ISL6366 flow thru three dividers to reach MOSFET gates. Frequency is always 1/4 of PWM phase. So with such unit it's impossible to archieve fast rate 1MHz, as on "true" multi-phase PWM topology. DMOSes used are Vishay SiC769CD, each rated to 35A.

So looks like customer pays his dollars for lots of inductors, power chips, passives just to have nice looking thing, but not for actual performance. We will check if this statement true or false during practical test.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/drmosback.jpg

Quite crazy to make such a complex topology, if you ask me :).

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/cpupwm.jpg

Voltage adjustable from BIOS, in range 0.750 to 1.700V, with 5mV step. 1.7V may be too low for real extreme guys.

CPU PLL power

CPU PLL voltage is adjustable in range 1.52 to 2.52V, with 20mV step.

System agent power

SA Voltage is adjustable, in range 0.655 to 1.305V, with 10mV step.

DRAM power

ISL6322G does work for powering memory sticks. It have dual phases to convert power, each with Renesas µPA2726UT1A FETs. Nothing interesting else to say about, this PWM chip is already known by other Gigabyte boards and high-end videocards.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/mempwm.jpg

This voltage is adjustable under name DRAM Voltage, in range 0.9 to 2.6V, with 20mV step.

For VIO power UD7 uses similar ISL6322 paired with two phases. Mosfets in each phase are Renesas µPA2726UT1A. Each FET can push 20A.
Input capacitance is 2 x 270uF 16V, output is decoupled by three 560uF, total 1680uF.

In Gigabyte's BIOS this voltage is adjustable under name QPI/Vtt Voltage, in range 0.8 to 1.7V, with 20mV step.

Also NF200 power placed nearby, controlled by simple 8-pin PWM Controller ISL6545 and single phase with pair of same µPA2726UT1A.
Output decoupled by three 560uF LowESR caps.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_nf200_io.jpg

PCH power is maintained by simple PWM controller, maybe ISL6545, hidden under CMOS battery holder, with two Renesas FETs and few 560uF caps. Had no need to desolder battery holder to read PWM marking.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_aux_pwr.jpg

In BIOS this voltage is adjustable under name PCH Core Voltage, in range 0.84 to 1.94V, with 20mV step.

Features

I think most reviewers already covered widely known things about new platforms, so just stop by on most interesting things.

ASUS Maximus IV Extreme

Board have PCI-Express Gen2 differential buffer IDT 9D403DGLF to drive down-stream PCI-Express cards.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/nf200.jpg

Well known NVIDIA NF200/BR04 bridge used to add two more PCI-E slots to Sandy Bridge platform.

NF200 and CPU VRM circuitry cooled by single heatsink assembly. Cooling solution is low-profile and aligned well.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/nf200_hsf_m4e.jpg

Overclockers like buttons for power and reset onboard. Also voltage check points are useful during extreme testing and for controls. Just a note here - fine-pitch connectors for monitoring cables is not a solution for most of guys, MSI ones for regular DMM probe are much better in term of usability.

LN2_Mode switch will allow easier overclocks under subzero by idea, but seems doesn't work actually on Sandy Bridge CPU's.

There also cool PCI-Express disable switches, to power down PCI-E card installed in selected slot. We saw similar idea
on Classified high-end boards. Should be nice feature for those who push hard 2-way/3-way SLI/CF rigs. GO_BUTTON loads profile from BIOS on-fly.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/ocblock.jpg

Some iROG controller which does something useful for enthusiasts. It has NOR flash chip near to store some data, maybe OC profiles etc.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/irog.jpg

Maximus equipped with two BIOS SPI Flash chips. I like also LED which show currently selected and used BIOS. Visible and usable.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bioses.jpg

Overall platform view with cooling installed:

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/platform_m4e.jpg

Gigabyte P67A-UD7

Marking with 8 layers of copper stack up.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/pcb8l.jpg

Passive heatsink have nice look and does its job just ok.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/pch_hs.jpg

PCH area crowded by lots of 0402 resistors, capacitors and discretes. PCH chip does not have any visible from top "bridges" or straps to solder on :).

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_pch.jpg

Same as ASUS board, here is used Foxconn socket. Time will show if socket burns affect 1155 platform.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_socket.jpg

UD7 have two PCI-Express Gen2 differential buffers IDT 9D403DGLF which take source clock and drive to PCI-Express down-stream devices.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/pegpll.jpg

PCI-Express slots use NF200 even if not connected to, so it's always heating here. Slots locks are comfortable and easy to use, much better that ASUS big ones.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/pegsw.jpg

Board also have power button, reset button and clear cmos button, but no hardware monitoring points.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/pwrbtn.jpg

I guess UD9 should be black-styled :) Here we have UD7 symbol.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_logo.jpg

Now remove cooling solution and check...

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_hsf_nf200.jpg

Contact area of motherboard heatsink is not as good as expected to be, mount screw placed just above NF200 die. First time I saw such a "solution" on high-end motherboard :)

Software and firmware

BIOS shots of Gigabyte and ASUS boards. ASUS used UEFI for their latest P67 boards, while GBT still use legacy well-learnt Award.

UD7:

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_ams.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_cinfo.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_cpi.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_f7a.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_health.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_ip.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_timing.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_volts.jpg

P67A-UD7 can be controlled under proprietary EasyTune6 tool, which is as usual is not easy at all in real-life overclocking. It does not work well with all bios versions, have overwhelmed design, but lack of necessary functionality, like system voltage monitoring and controls. Controls are laggy. Pity, such issues are common for "uber-super-overclocking tools" shipped with modern motherboards. Why not to create really simple and working tool, like SetFSB/CPU-Z/Rivatuner with simple interface w/o heavy graphics, just to do the job needed, fast and easy?..

M4E:

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_cpui.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_cpur.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_intro.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_monitor.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_post.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_utils.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_volts.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_vrm.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e/bios_vrm2.jpg

Maximus have similar overclocking tool too, but this one not as laggy, just need better usability, for example to have all settings on one screen section, not that countless folders in folders in submenus with only two-three settings in each :).

Benchmarking

Tier 1 : The Beginning

First to do - assemble test system and check if everything run smoothly and stable.

Start from CPU cooler install.

Clearance check for not the biggest cooling solution - Scythe Yasya in horizontal position.

On both boards cooler block nearest to CPU socket memory slot for any module with high heatsinks.
Even Dominator GT installed to second slot from socket with their accurate heatsinks was very close to touching
CPU cooler on ASUS board, and failed to fit with Gigabyte P67A-UD7.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ram_clearence_m4e.jpg

Almost touched.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ram_clearence_ud7.jpg

Fail to fit.

Of course it's not only motherboard design issue, but rather memory vendor stuff. Nice fancy heatsinks on
DDR3 stick are not for cooling, but for cool looking. Power output is so low for modern memory that it's not an issue
at all. And most extreme guys who cool memory to subzero are anyway don't care about awesomeness of stock
heatsinks on memory.

After assemble both boards boot and fully functional. Gigabyte P67A-UD7 had some issues with
Gigabyte PSU, I tried to use Odin GT 550W for some preliminary use, but board didn't even power on. Instant
shutdown when I press Power button. System doesn't power on even with everything disconnected.
Same PSU works okay with rest of my rigs, including Gigabyte P965-DQ6, ASUS P6T6, Maximus IV Extreme.
Maybe it's just exact PSU/mobo combo issue, but it was fun to have GBT PSU not working with GBT board.

2nd test - monitoring accuracy for voltages

Interesting part here. I will check all the voltages with Fluke 87V DMM and compare that to BIOS/Software
monitoring readout. For both boards I've set next settings from BIOS setup:

ASUS M4E - BIOS version 0676 x64 from 01/07/2011, EC: GMEB-0020, ME: 7.0.1.1141

Quote:

---

BCLK/PCIE Frequency: 100.3
Turbo Ratio: 52
Internal PLL Overvoltage: EN
Memory Frequency: DDR3-1857MHz
EPU: Disabled
CPU Manual Voltage: 1.500
DRAM Voltage: 1.65V
Rest voltages left Auto
Spread Spectrum: DIS

Digi+ VRM Control:

Vcore PWM mode: Extreme
Vcore MOS volt. Control: Auto
Vcore LLC: 75%
Vcore Freq: Manual, 500kHz
Vcore Phase control: Extreme
Vcore OCP: DIS
VRM OTP: DIS
Rest convertor settings left Auto, Full Phase Control everywhere set EN

CPU settings:

Ratio: 34
Intel TM: DIS
HT: EN
Active cores: ALL
SpeedStep Tech: EN
Turbo: EN
C1E, C3 Report, C6 Report: DIS

All onboard devices disabled.

---

Gigabyte UD7 - BIOS version F7a from 01/07/2011

Quote:

---

BCLK/DMI/PCIE Frequency: 100.3 MHz
Turbo Ratio: 52
Internal PLL Overvoltage: EN
Memory Frequency (SPD multiplier): DDR3-1857MHz (16.00)
EPU: Disabled
CPU Manual Voltage: 1.500
DRAM Voltage: 1.65V
Rest voltages left Auto
Spread Spectrum: DIS

Digi+ VRM Control:

Vcore PWM mode: Extreme
Vcore MOS volt. Control: Auto
Vcore LLC: Level 1
Vcore Freq: Manual, 500kHz
Vcore Phase control: Extreme
Vcore OCP: DIS
VRM OTP: DIS
Rest convertor settings left Auto, Full Phase Control everywhere set EN

CPU settings:

Ratio: 34
Intel TM: DIS
Turbo Power Limit (Watts) - 255
Core Current Limit (Amps) - 255
HT: EN
EIST: DIS
Active cores: ALL
SpeedStep Tech: EN
Turbo: EN
C1E, C3 Report, C6 Report: DIS

All onboard devices disabled.

---

CPU Vcore monitoring

Min, max and average value during idle and one cycle of SPI,wPrime,Vantage CPU and Aquamark tests according to meter.

ASUS board

LLC 75%

Average voltage photo, 1.5065V
Maximum voltage photo, 1.5083V
Minimum voltage photo, 1.5029V

Less than 10mV delta from min to max. Nice results and precise setting.

LLC 100%

Average voltage photo, 1.5661V
Maximum voltage photo, 1.5761V
Minimum voltage photo, 1.5606V

So max delta is about 15mV, and total voltage level is steady 60mV above BIOS 1.500 setting.

Gigabyte board

LLC Level 2

Average voltage photo, 1.5608V
Maximum voltage photo, 1.5988V
Minimum voltage photo, 1.5523V

46.5mV delta from low load to high load. Average level is 56mV above BIOS settings, topping at almost 1.6V.

LLC Level 1

Average voltage photo, 1.4982V
Maximum voltage photo, 1.5125V
Minimum voltage photo, 1.4749V

37mV delta, average level is quite near 1.500 V setting in BIOS.

So quite stable operation under heavy transitions from idle to 8-threaded wPrime/Vantage, I must admit.

Then monitoring rest of voltages

Main power supply rails monitoring:

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_3v3.jpghttp://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_5v.jpg
http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_12v.jpg

+3.3, +5, +12V, measured on 24-pin ATX input power connector. Monitoring accuracy is okay for general use,
deviation is near +1%.

Rest system voltages working similar, with 1-2% accuracy. Could be better, but still these values are okay for
most users who are interested to see accurate voltages.

CPU PLL

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/m...ing_cpupll.jpg

DRAM Voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_dram.jpg

PCH Voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_pch.jpg

PCH PLL Voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_ppll.jpg

CPU VIO voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_vio.jpg

System Agent voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_dmm/monitoring_vsa.jpg

Gigabyte board does not provide complete monitoring for user, so I'll just show BIOS settings and measured applied voltages.

BIOS settings:

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/ud7_bios_vmon.jpg

DRAM Voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_dmm/ud7_mon_dram.jpg

VIO Voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_dmm/ud7_mon_vio.jpg

System Agent voltage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_dmm/ud7_mon_vsa.jpg

Tier 2 : Overclocking Sandy Bridge

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/power_air.jpg

Lets check some BCLK clocking with reduced VCC to 1.45v and multi set to 48.

Tier 3 : Power stress test (thermals)

Maximus IV Extreme off, just on standby power, with CPU heatsink installed. NEC USB Bridge and peripheral controllers
heat up to mid-40's Celsius.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_board_off.jpg

Power on at 5.17GHz 1.5V. System begin to heat up. wPrime 32M started

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_vrm_front_hsf.jpg

Thermal. With almost 5.2GHz Sandy Bridge quad core, heatsink on VRM module was in range 45 to 60C without any air-cooling
except stock low-speed fan on Scythe cooler.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti...prime_5177.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_vrm_hsf_wprime.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_smps_wprime.jpg

DC-DC convertor for USB 3.0 controllers run quite warm, above +60 C. This was always
the hottest point on motherboard during any tests and benchmarks.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_usb3_wprime.jpg

VDIMM power supply is dead cold, only +44. Maximum I saw during 2hrs of test - is 47 here.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti...vrm_wprime.jpg

IDT PCI-Express clock buffer near +50C, just 20 degrees about ambient.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_pll_wprime.jpg

PCH runs near +50C, without any active airflow.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_plx_wprime5177.jpg

PLX switch working at +50-55C. Nothing except 8600GT card installed.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti...wer_wprime.jpg

Super I/O area is cool, just a small chip which drives power-hungry LEDs in debug indicator heating up a bit.

NF200 bridge totally unpowered when not used. It's temperature is same as PCB, no heat at all.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_nf200_disabled.jpg

I was also interested in thermals without heatsink onboard, so decreased clock to 4.5GHz and voltage to 1.35V,
just to be safe.

Idle - 50-55c for drivers, even less for mosfets. MOSFETs on center was covered with matte paste, to
get rid from metal can reflectivity. Thermal imager accurate only on non-reflective surfaces.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_vrmo_wprime.jpg

Coils run near 40-45C with 4.5GHz tests.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti...oil_wprime.jpg

Drivers produced most part of heat, running near +60C.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_ti/ti_vrmo_driver.jpg

Noise and transient testing

ASUS Vcore probe connect

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/cpuprobe.jpg

Shield of probe was connected to ground terminal to nearest capacitor in CPU cavity on back of motherboard, signal is VCCP terminal. For each tests below CPU was overclocked to 5.15GHz with 1.500 Vcore BIOS setting.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_idle.jpg

OS booted, system idle. 10-15mV range small noise, totally acceptable.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_pwm-pkpk.jpg

Light, SuperPI loading to CPU, noise increased to ~20mV, not noticeable actually.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_pwm.jpg

Small spike at running frequency of VRM, 500 kHz, observed.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_wprime.jpg

WPriming at 8 threads shows some increased ripple, 60-70mV max. It's okay for CPU.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_wprime5g.jpg

wPrime at 5GHz and 1024 test (clock is limited by thermals with air-cooling), 65-75mV range. Okay too.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_vantage_cpu.jpg

During Vantage CPU test VCCP is surprisingly clean, only ~30mV pk-pk ripple.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/osc_nature_10us.jpg

3Dmark03 test Nature, with 8600GT card on stock clocks. below 30mV range noise.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/m4e_osc/m4e_nature_vccp.jpg

3Dmark03 test, with 480GTX on stock clocks. Never saw above 90mV.

In conclusion for CPU VRM on Maximus IV Extreme - it doing job very good. Run hotter than Gigabyte monster, but power quality is clearly better.

Overall YouTube video with M4E under noise tests:

Youtube demo during ASUS VRM testing

Gigabyte Vcore probe connect

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/ud7_sense.jpg

Idle, booted OS, nothing loads system

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/ud7_osc_idle.jpg

Quite and safe.

Light load with 5.17GHz 1.5V in BIOS, LLC lvl 1.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/ud7_osc_ripple.jpg

Some 250kHz low-amplitude noise. About 10mV peak-peak.

3D06 run thru CPU tests.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/u...noise_3d06.jpg

Whole bunch of oscillations happen. Average peak-peak level is 30-70mV

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/u...noise_22hz.jpg

..with frequencies 22, 900Hz, few kHz.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/u..._mod_900hz.jpg

With medium to high-loads there are slow and big transients. 100-115mV peak-peak.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/ud7_osc_oscill.jpg

1MHz PWM1 signal added.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/ud7_pwm_ns.jpg

SuperPI 1M

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_osc/ud7_pwm1_ns.jpg

Thermal shots

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_pwri.jpg

Applied stand-by power. System not working.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_vrm.jpg

Starting system at 5.15GHz 1.5Vcore in BIOS. There is little choke temperature gradient.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_cen.jpg

Same USB 3.0 heat generated even in stand-by.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_controllers.jpg

CPU auxilary power convertor run at about +50°C

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_pll.jpg

ITE PCI hub comforts at 50-55 C

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_sbc.jpg

Main VRM chokes topped at +45°C during tests.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_vrdc.jpg

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_vrmpx.jpg

Back side of PCB is more interesting.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_bvrmt.jpg

Top row of DMOS was about +5-7 °C warmer than left side.
Looks like current not balanced equally, but can be also just less copper on plane in that area.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_backph.jpg

Left DMOS chips.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_bvrml.jpg

Max temperature registered for bottom non-cooled DMOS-es was about +55-57°C

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7_ti/ti_bvrm1.jpg

Actual phase PWM1 captured signals, Intersil output (top signal), After divider 1 stage (middle, 1/2 of clockrate, with 60ns delay, and after two divider stages (bottom signal, 1/4 frequency, 100ns delay)
So each divider adds noticeable delays to phase control signals. This mean that situation when more than one phase per moment can be firing, possibly raising noise level.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/ud7/phase.png

This waveform was captured using logic analyzer sampling at 250MHz rate.

Youtube demo during Gigabyte UD7 VRM testing

Power tests

-TBD Later-

Tier 4 : Extreme test

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/tools/vapo.jpg

I didn't managed yet to gain any overclock increase with phase-change unit, with CPU evaporator temperature in range -40 to -20°C. But running Sandy on subzero allows overclockers to have sucessful benchmarking on heavyload tests, like Vantage CPU, 3D11, wPrime, etc. Most SB chips able to run 5.5+GHz SPI on water/air are overheating easily on heavy tests, so subzero helps to keep safe temperature, allowing to run test, no matter of no much scaling of freqencies themself. This is bit different approach on new platform, if you compare to LGA1366/1155/775 OC.

Test results

UD7 F7a bios VS MIVE 0088 bios

MIVE

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/01_m4e.png

UD7

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/01_ud7.png

Same rig, same cooling, same volts, same everything except mboard.

Full specs:

i7 2600K ES D1
Scythe HDT cooler
2x2G Kingston DDR3
Single EVGA GeForce GTX 285 2GB with ASUS cooler and EVGA Untouchable for Vmem.
Enermax Revolution 1250+

Same Windows XP 32bit for both tests.
Lod 1.9 for all tests except nature, 4.9 for nature.

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/01_ud7.jpg

I forgot to enable HT but it should be not an influence so much.

3DMARK03 (MIVE, 2600K D1 ES, 5167MHz air, EVGA GTX 285 2GB, 2x2G Kingston DDR3, Enermax 1250W)

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/03_285_mive_xp.PNG

3DMARK03 (UD7, 2600K D1 ES, 5167MHz air, EVGA GTX 285 2GB, 2x2G Kingston DDR3, Enermax 1250W)

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/03_285_ud7_5166.PNG


Multi-GPU scaling on MIVE

3DMARK03 (MIVE, 2600K D2, 5518Hz LS, 2x2G Kingston DDR3, Enermax 1250W)

Single 8800GTX - 45686

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/03_8800_single.png

Two 8800GTX SLI thru NF200 - 67908

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/03_8800_sli.png

Two 8800GTX SLI by native SB lane split x8+x8 - 68582

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/03_8800_sli_8x_8x.png

So if you run 2-way it's wise to try avoiding NF200 bridge to reduce latency and have little better performance. All three tests with MIVE, coz UD7 don't allow have NF200 away if I recall correct :)

Aquamark comparsion

Aqua (MIVE, 2600K D1 ES, 5167MHz air, EVGA 285 GTX 2GB, 2x2G DDR3, Enermax 1250W)

362226, MIVE
LOD 4.9 :)

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/aq_285_mive.PNG

362629, UD7
LOD 4.9 :)

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/aq_285_ud7_lod49.PNG

Aquamark perf is about the same, in range of accuracy tolerance.

3-way 8800GTX on UD7 with Vantage

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/vvan_3way_ud7.png

I tried to make 3-way SLI with 8800GTX on MIVE, but no luck. It was enabling only 2-way between 1st and 2nd card, or between 1st and 3rd card. :(

Btw, was discovered my old Cinebench 2003 tests from 2005 year "w00t" :D

Compare the evolution :)

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/old_cb2k3.png

From celeron 326 up to 2600K :)

Conclusion

ASUS ROG board and Gigabyte UD7 for Sandy Bridge processors marketed at same level as current flagship motherboard, but in real battle for benchmarks and usability ASUS solution looks like quite ahead. To be honest, I'm not an ASUS fan, but this time their solution works better for me :). Both boards are working perfect for 24/7 use, and allowed me to reach exact top level from my single D1 ES 2600K sample, but Maximus made that easier. ASUS board have bit less performance for 3Dmark01 on XP32, but eventually this issue will be sorted out, it's not limited to ASUS only as I know. UD7 in other way scales with memory overclock less than ASUS solutions. So with these new boards experience and skill of overclocker is still a must, as was always.

Actual practial comparsion of both boards in VRM performance side allow to see, that boards run similar, UD7 have overvolts more with similar LLC settings, have more noise on plane, but VRM runs cooler in general. ASUS board run have better voltage precision, much more VRM adjustable settings thru BIOS, wider voltage range. bit warmer.

I could not see any practical sense to make 24-phase VRM for LGA1155 platform. Yes, it sounds cool, but it's not the key necessary for overclocker (and never was). What is essential for overclockers - is ability to control everything, solid and stable overclocking software, useful and clear BIOS settings, and minimum of issues. Good 6/8-phase design still able to deliver necessary power, and practice shows that even Intel DP67BG is able to make 5.5GHz Sandy Bridge happiness, not matter of it's "weak" VRM.

We should wait for new revisions of Sandy Bridge boards to make final statement, but even current models able to reach much more than 5000MHz using just normal air cooler, without any subzero madness, which is just cool. I'm sure about new world records using Sandy Bridge platform, just after people learn new platform a bit.

Credits:
* cyclone for hardware and support
* Peter for great support and cooperation
* k|ngp|n for doing amazing things constantly ;)
* And many many others who put effort to OC :\:\:\:\:\

Stay tuned, keep following. TiN

amasing work there... Very very informative, better than the technical mumbo jumbo marketing PR talk we have read lately.. this is the real stuff :) Tested and proven...

You are the master Tin !!

great work tin

That's crazy. I'll try to put the effort into reading it all. Great job! :up:

perfect :D

Simply amazing work!

Great work here! It was a very informative read! Also, I have the same scope here :) Nice unit.
Cheers,
Cory

The best:up:

Possibly the most detailed review ever, nice one :up:

Yeah :D it looks crasy when you put it together in one post :)

Amazing job TiN once again :up:

Waiting for the next :yepp:

This is a proper review - no BS spiel, marketing dress up or crazy assumptions. Excellent work Tin.

-Raja

wow mate, awesome write up.. intense tools you have used!

awesome huge post, awesome summary about asus, gigabyte, and over-building power supplies. thank you for your work

Very impressed with those LLC 75% numbers, read from the DMM.

Average voltage photo, 1.5065V
Maximum voltage photo, 1.5083V
Minimum voltage photo, 1.5029V

:shocked:

If I buy some extra parts for a friend to upgrade his system, I may wind up grabbing the M4E for myself...even though it's a waste of money since I'll NEVER do SLI or Crossfire...

Superb thread !!!

:up:

Thanks

Thanks all for kind words, you guys think I should do similar stuff in future? :)
Maybe some GFX hardcore, no? :D

Update to article:

I described some issues with UD7 board not working with Gigabyte Odin GT 550W PSU. It was not motherboard issue, but faulty PSU.
Checked it today with my own designed Neutron PSU ATE, it's badly unstable on low-voltage loads. So it's not board fault :)

http://xdevs.com/kpc/sandy/test/gbto.png

I certainly think you should do more stuff in the future including cards. That was one of the best reviews I have seen anywhere, fantastic work.:up:

amazing post, !!!!!! GRATZ

Nice work TiN....you put my comparison to shame :clap:

(Although we still ended with the same conclusion :p:)

Awesome review mate. So much informations gathered here. Now time to study it. :D

Perfect tin, keep thus sort of amazing content coming

You is crazy guy TiN.
Very perfect post :D

nice
f7a bios is a pain to turn off ht,takes a reboot or two.

wow amazing article there!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiN_

Multi-GPU scaling on MIVE

3DMARK03 (MIVE, 2600K D2, 5518Hz LS, 2x2G Kingston DDR3, Enermax 1250W)

Single 8800GTX - 45686

Two 8800GTX SLI thru NF200 - 67908

Two 8800GTX SLI by native SB lane split x8+x8 - 68582

So if you run 2-way it's wise to try avoiding NF200 bridge to reduce latency and have little better performance. All three tests with MIVE, coz UD7 don't allow have NF200 away if I recall correct :)

---

Full speed (x16 + x16) SLI hampered by the NF200!?!

[Edit: Asus web site reports; "Expansion Slots 4 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (single @x16, dual @x8, triple @x8, x16, x16 )"

So dual = x8 + x8 but triple = x8 + x16 + x16 ?

Am I missing something here? ]

I would love to see this re-tested with some more recent hardware (i.e. GTX480/580 or 5870/6970).

Damn you have a lot of tools!

Awesome write up :up:

good work TiN, i love your ghetto setups and unbelievable hardware setup and knowledge. It's awesome having people like you around that really like to open up the bonnet so to speak and go for broke :up:

In terms of your summary and conclusions i want to respectfully disagree with you :). I will tell you about facts that i base my opinion on below.

In terms of benchmarking UD7 is ahead in some things and behind in others. Most of the 3D benching will see equal scores other than 01 where UD7 is way ahead and possibly other system intense tests when pushing the system to the limit counts > ie hypers at monster timings and clocks.

Your 3DMARK01 difference seems a bit smaller than what people are experiencing, if you look around you will see up to 6K difference between the setups with UD7 being the faster one (4K difference link, Matose sees 6K difference GBT vs M4E). Ive had a quick test at your frequencies and UD7 scored way higher in system tests.

Have you done proper RAM testing comparisons and SuperPi efficiency with the boards? You'd expect to see ‘01 and ‘03 being run with 21.33 ratio with 7-7-6 on hypers as most guys would do when pushing hard. Have you tested 24.00 ratio with Asus board, does it work? It might be interesting to see some benchmarks with that 24.00 ratio but no one can get it to work online. I don’t have M4E but DLX board has Pi troubles with 21,33 ratio with ram i can run at 2200 7-7-6-20-1T on UD7 and it refuses to boot with 24.00 with auto timings even on P8P67 DLX. Gigabyte P67 boards are clearly faster/better in SuperPi efficiency(read the whole thread) than M4E and it seems to clock hypers more stable than M4E from Jody's findings on XS so far. One of your screenshots is showing 666Mhz ram clocks with cas9, what's up with that :D. That's the :banana::banana::banana::banana: you test when you compare board bro :D, particularly old school benchmarks. You are a hardware guru though so i understand that these things maybe dont matter much in your testing :)

That 03 run you did, have you noticed GT2/3/4 that are heavy GPU tests are all the same between the platforms? You would expect NF200 to impact on those 3 tests, especially the last one no? NF200 does add latency I dont disagree as ive done testing on X58 platform but in that test it would be logical to see some of those being slower but they are equal.

UD7 has looser LLC implementation as seen which won't impact on benchmarks as we are forced to bench to frequency walls in Sandy Bridge. UD7 runs cooler than M4E as per your screenshots. UD7 is $100 cheaper as well. You could almost buy a UD3R for the price difference lol so if you get stuck in some tests where NF200 adds latency Bob's your uncle with UD3R.

Bios is still a bit early days on SB boards in general and UD7 is no exception. It is now starting to getting better with OC fail and other niggles people have with some of the latest bioses. LLC will get improved as well but yeah without it being a subzero setup its not as important as X58 :) so all those amazing extras like voltage monitoring on every single volt you can think of and PCie lanes control and bunch of other stuff is useless on Sandybridge :shrug:

Too bad these platforms are restricted to just good watercooling or chilled water. They would be so much more fun if there was no MHz wall to really get the most out of the platforms.

It would be extremely cool if you do all top end GPU GTX580 hardware tests. I'd love to see how they stack up.

Just wanted to give a serious thank you for the review. Just outstanding work, and I will be purchasing a M4E as a result.

Dinos, thanks :)

I have only single 480 here atm, maybe will test sli later more.

Quote:

---

Ive had a quick test at your frequencies and UD7 scored way higher in system tests.

---

Post them? :)

I tried mem testing, but mine UD7 failed to work good with Hypers, sometimes even fail to POST on 4G and 800MHz dram clock with Dominators. With PSC no issues, same bios same settings.
Had no such issues with MIVE with same sticks, so I decided to skip that test right now, not to make false conclusions based only on exact system components. Later I will check.
And I dont have fancy 2400MHz DDR3 sticks to test 24.00 multi, sorry.

For 3D01 - that 4K difference was run with different memsettings a little :) I expect this is kind of software issue, and it may not be limited only to MIVE/UD7, maybe anybody compare another boards too in same environment?

I agree with you completely about BIOSes, too early for robust and flawless firmwares yet. But EFI looks much smoother, and mive have lots more ability to do fine tuning VRMs, clocks, etc.
Also I hate having automatic GBT BIOS backup by HPAing primary HDD, crushing RAID array if I forgot to disconnect it and reset CMOS. That's still here since P965-DQ6 i own years on. But i skip that part from review, it's not much relevant.
Normal guys should run SAS RAID cards, not teh ICH integrated madness :).

Quote:

---

LLC will get improved as well

---

Mmm, how? :) It's important always, not because of subzero but because it's about actual power delivery during transients, no matter of cooling. It's critical thing in overclocking, and margins even less than X58, coz 1155 CPU's much more sensetive to power stuff, it's not like GT on X58, pushing 1.9V :D.
PCI-E lanes switching is used on UD7 too, no exclusions (why otherwise GBT put NF200 there then?:). And I can't see why it's useless, 1155 SB is quite limited by PCI-E lanes by its native.

Btw, any comments about NF200 cooling solution? Was not expected to see that :D

Quote:

---

UD7 runs cooler than M4E as per your screenshots. UD7 is $100 cheaper as well.

---

I did stated that in conclusion, that UD7 runs cooler ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by review

UD7 have overvolts more with similar LLC settings, have more noise on plane, but VRM runs cooler in general.

---

As for price, it depends on retailer much. We had both boards (UD7 and MIVE) at about 350 USD here in Ukraine before they were pulled out by sata bug.

I like hardware, like messing with solder, that's obvious fact, I don't deny that. So review bit hardware-biased in a way, rather than testing all possible software things and tricks. I never even do copywaza or similar stupidity during benchmarks :D

Why don't you setup a review page for extreme reviews like this as request hardware directly from manufacturers rather than have to resort through third party help. You can certainly setup a unique testing website and Im sure once you build it up a little all the companies that want to do some decent testing would send hardware that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiN_

Also I hate having automatic GBT BIOS backup by HPAing primary HDD, crushing RAID array if I forgot to disconnect it and reset CMOS. That's still here since P965-DQ6 i own years on. But i skip that part from review, it's not much relevant.
Normal guys should run SAS RAID cards, not teh ICH integrated madness :).

---

what you need to do is copy main bios to backup bios, that stabilised the bios and stops bios backup tripping early

ALT+F12 command during startup will let you do that :)



Dominators, which ones, i have GT2000C7 and GTX2 they absolutely kick ass with this board. Maybe use F7e bios as thats where i really sort of tested a lot of superpi seriously :)

i was told that LLC can be improved, i dont know how as im not a bios engineer but if that is possible i will follow up and send you a new bios. I've had a different LLC bios sent for UD5 a while back so i know they can do some stuff with it for sure but to what extent and how i have no idea.

you misunderstood or i didnt word it properly, i was talking about powering off PCIe slots, things like that

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Why don't you setup a review page

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I'm not quite want to do reviews 24/7 tbh. I like messing with hardware more than writing articles and making neat looking charts with useless fps or 3dmark numbers :)
I do run own website and own two servers for my internal R&D, but most effort i put to design own stuff and devices,rather that reviewing already done hw.
Just sometimes like to review something interesting, and I'm amazed about sandybridge, really best platform last few years, crushing LN2 records with air :D

As for bios - I'm not about reflashing bios from second chip, but about having GBT HPAing my HDD and breaking RAID by its bios "backup" stuff.

Corsair Dominator GT 1866C7

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LLC can be improved,

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It's a bit hardware stuff, not just pure BIOS.

Ah, as for PCIe, yea, switching I my mind mean switchswitch lanes :) I (and not only I, also guys who run multiGPU subzero) found similar feature useful on EVGA mb's. And it's really easy to do, so it's def not a con to have it)

They'll have to revise in HW to change the LLC parameters to any appreciable degree Dino - BIOS can only change the applied VID. Voffset and the FB gain/compensation is all hardware set so maybe a board revision or something of that ilk.

X58 is still THE platform for multi GPU subzero because of Mhz wall on SB hence why im telling its as useless as tits on a bull, you know what i mean dude

Yea, but not everyone (i'd say almost no one in general) are packed with all that megabucks 990X and sets of 580's all under LN2, but lots of people had fun with 5+G aircooled/h20 sandy.
World doesn't stop on WR ranking on bot :) I found awesome to have 300USD CPU on Intel desktop board on air running faster than LN2-cooled to bones i7 950 placed in 400USD mb

so are we discussing affordability now or benching 4way?

whoever can do 4xGPUs on LN2 surely fits the profile of someone benching a 980X or 990X

i agree about SB and that it's awesome fun however you can have just as much fun with a $150 P67A-UD3R board and most people will buy that not a $450 board LOL. M4E is the least affordable SB board on the market :shrug:

Anyone that want to do decent benching will also have to buy a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of SB chips, Dumo is considering working for the local Microcenter after buying a miilion CPUs to find a 5.8GHz chip :rofl:

Here is an 01 run man just did a quick one now with system tests, first go, didnt try anything special just ran dragos, lobbies and CH with 1.9LOD you said you used. I disabled SLI so i'm only using one GTX295 core, easily another 2K on top of what you are doing

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/378/3dmark01.jpg

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1276/14960945.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4603/img7851ib.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4366/img7852n.jpg

Hey Tin, just 1 thing other than the other stuff you wrote which i won't get into(you are always correcting me, so yea):

The chip you call a "frequency divider" is actually not. Sure in the past years a freuqnecy divider woudl have been teh most simple way to go, allowing both of the new PWM outputs to be in phase with the original, but technology has progressed. So it is labeled 617C, its actually an Intersil ISL6617 Proprietary Phase Doubler. it is designed to allow for the increase in phase count to 12 or 24 phases, specifically in conjunction with any of the ISL63XX. Including the ISL6366 which is on the UD7.


Now intersil did have many initial thoughts on how to design their phase doubler, YES they did think about using a frequency divider because that would allow for both outputs to be in phase with the pwm input, but that just wasn't good enough for them. They decided that they could further extend the function of the PWM, so they put a lot of work into a phase doubler, that would allow for each channel A and channel B to work out of phase. Channel A will take the full PWM frequency and then it will switch to channel B, so on and so forth. One channel would work in phase with the initial PWm input, and the other would swap when necessary to evenly spread the load. Of course they brought current balancing and offsets into play. The actually technical document they submitted to the US patent office was very long, anyways they did it and i can't explain it that well in common speak or i will get beaten up by you for it.


Honestly i thought it was a frequency doubler, as those are just as common as frequency dividers. but this sure does amaze me, and it probably might impress you by how intuitive they got. Although it is very complex and I have to agree a frequency divider would have been just much simpler, extending the PWM like they did is very promising. i personally cannot wait to see what Intersil will do with Digital PWMs, because it sure seems like they know what up.

here's another one with low RAM speed

as you can see you are missing 2K in UD7 run and i'm using a weaker card (single core of 295 is slower than 285)

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1...rk01lowram.jpg

Dino

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as for buying load of SB chips,

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Well , not everyone 980X even go pass 6G CPU-Z, no matter they cost triple more than top SB :) Lets skip pricing atm. Both UD7 and MIVE was sold at about same price locally, until bug was revealed. Right now we dont have neither boards on sale, so it's pointless to talk about virtual prices. :)

Nice score, i will do run today. 5166 is in my range.

I don't have 295. Mine gfx used was EVGA 285 with 2GB of vram. So it's single-gpu.

sin0822

I have full ISL6366 DS, managed to download it until ISL pull it off site, and read it thru carefully :)

Just two questions.

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Channel A will take the full PWM frequency and then it will switch to channel B, so on and so forth

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What happen to Channel A then when we put full PWM frequency, as you state, into channel B? :)
What frequency will we need on ISL6366 output to get 24-phases sequenced without overlap?

I checked ISL outputs very carefully, with analyzer of 350MHz bandwidth, and did not find any ..... ...... mm, signals which could double actual phase count. There are few methods, but this is not here.

prices are still relevant and i am using current prices in Australian market. In fact UD7 price remained the same around $350 while M4E first launched at $500+ and now in mid-$400 so i am quoting current prices and our resellers definitely sell boards still.

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Originally Posted by TiN_

Dino



Well , not everyone 980X even go pass 6G CPU-Z, no matter they cost triple more than top SB :) Lets skip pricing atm. Both UD7 and MIVE was sold at about same price locally, until bug was revealed. Right now we dont have neither boards on sale, so it's pointless to talk about virtual prices. :)

Nice score, i will do run today. 5166 is in my range.

I don't have 295. Mine gfx used was EVGA 285 with 2GB of vram. So it's single-gpu.

sin0822

I have full ISL6366 DS, managed to download it until ISL pull it off site, and read it thru carefully :)

Just two questions.


What happen to Channel A then when we put full PWM frequency, as you state, into channel B? :)
What frequency will we need on ISL6366 output to get 24-phases sequenced without overlap?

I checked ISL outputs very carefully, with analyzer of 350MHz bandwidth, and did not find any ..... ...... mm, signals which could double actual phase count. There are few methods, but this is not here.

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Well for your question i worded it a bit weird, but idk how else to w it so i gave you a snippet of the patent(actually the into). My information on how it actually works is not from the ISl6366 datasheet, yea no need that datasheet can be found on google on alldatasheets they DLed it like you and I before.

I found that it has nothing to actually do with the ISl6366 itself as much as the doubler is designed to work with the current sensing and PWM outputs of the ISL6366. I thought that segment from the patent would explain it to you better. its not part of the ISl6366 datasheet.

maybe this can explain it a bit better for you??? i can agree with you that it is a bit much to have 24 phases, but its really isn't bad at all, it evenly spreads load and increase efficiency.

Tobe honest i do not think they want to make how it works so public, which makes more work for you and me, me having to ask my friends who know a patent attorney.

Anyways tin nice job, i just wanted to point that out.

Dinos, I'd love to, but all I have is 9800GTX+, monster 285 and single 480. Well 8600GT too, but thats not interesting :D

Sin, Nice patent stuff. The point is that it doesn't occur in UD7 :) I had stready waveforms w/o switching. Check out youtube vid :)

I am just showing you what it says they are using for their phase doubling tech. I saw your tests and I am not saying they aren't right, i am saying maybe they are hiding their tech, you saw the correct delays tho. IDK maybe you need more channels. a VRTT test will show, if a UD4 has MUCH better transient response than a UD7, then yes maybe you are right, it is expected that it will have better, but significantly better, like something like 30% then yes divider. Of course they patent this, not divider tech. They also don't hide every datasheet on ISl6617 if its just a divider, as that is an accepted method.

but hey i just wanted to point that out. That patent is a few years old BTW.

EDIT last time i tried your youtube video it didn't work.

So it's again not much hardware issue, but rather software/bios things, etc, as be both run UD7.

i run a UD7 too lol. BTW it gives me some amazing bench scores.

Anyways Tin, listen, i think when it switches it might just turn off the phase, like what GB advertises as phase switching tech comes straight out of some things that Intersil writes. Sometimes when i had a stupid little DMM on the choke, it would lose the voltage. of course just like it has modes of operation when higher loads occur it might switch its operational mode. you did your readings of an MLCC cap, would you be able to see a phase or two drop off like that? I believe what you posted as results from your scope are true.

BTW why can't GB change LLC? i have seen it vary BIOS to BIOS just from user feedback in some of the UD7 or UD4/UD3R threads i go on, i have seen people complain about one BIOS then have it fixed in another, LLC issues.

BTW since these boards the UD7 is being replaced with the UD7-B3, i wonder what they have changed, as they changed some things on the UD4-B3 right?

try a newer bios like F7e, if it doesn't give you the scores you may have been reviewing a faulty board

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Sometimes when i had a stupid little DMM on the choke, it would lose the voltage.

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That's called just bad probe connection, m8 :D

dinos22
It works :D I can try F8x you used.

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Originally Posted by TiN_

That's called just bad probe connection, m8 :D

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hahahaha lol, i soldered a wire to the chokes leg to make life easy :D

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hahahaha lol, i soldered a wire to the chokes leg to make life easy

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Then bad soldering. All chockes connected to single power plane there, they are physically interconnected, if voltage drops - then your rig is down. so check your DMM/probes/connections etc.

It's offtopic btw :D

Dinos

maybe u have 9800GTX+ or 480 to try ? :D

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Originally Posted by TiN_

Then bad soldering. All chockes connected to single power plane there, they are physically interconnected, if voltage drops - then your rig is down. so check your DMM/probes/connections etc.

It's offtopic btw :D

Dinos

maybe u have 9800GTX+ or 480 to try ? :D

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lol what else do you want me to talk about. lol. yea ill try to make it happen again, i swear it just let off. Anyways sorry to bring this stuff up tonight while Dino posted, the thing is that i just found out finally what it does, and I was planning to post when i was certain. And that was tonight. I understand you are probably overwhelmed by Dino's really great argument and my un needed one. You just make the UD7's VR which is proven through the UD9 look like its just stupid and you made me question it.

I have an M4E on the way eventually direct from ASUS. I also have a UD7, direct from GIGA.

Although my time is severely limited I will pit both boards against each other at balls to the walls settings in a large range of benches.

I would do it anyway for my own personal data of what boards are best at what so I don't have to second guess crap when I tackle a specific bench.

Usually I keep this data for personal use only however.......

I will not be going over electricals on the boards nor will I pretend to know what each chips purpose is or how it works. Sin0822 I like your reviews but just a friendly suggestion, no information is better than misinformation.

I also don't play favorites nor will I ever, credibility comes first for me and I will not ruin mine by sucking up to any manufacturer.

To drive that point home I would do another compare of ASUS PRO versus UD4, however the ASUS PRO has memory compatibility issues for balls to the walls benching as well as general stability issue if not really cold and the UD4 failed on my bench table and can no longer accept "bench" vcore, it's usefull as a daily driver now and thats about it when it decides to boot.

Until then guys seriously this little back and forth stuff between ASUS and Giga is getting kind of old.

Both have hit or miss products in the product cycle, thats life.

If I lose my connection with either or both manufacturers for this post......so be it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chew*

I have an M4E on the way eventually direct from ASUS. I also have a UD7, direct from GIGA.

Although my time is severely limited I will pit both boards against each other at balls to the walls settings in a large range of benches.

I would do it anyway for my own personal data of what boards are best at what so I don't have to second guess crap when I tackle a specific bench.

Usually I keep this data for personal use only however.......

I will not be going over electricals on the boards nor will I pretend to know what each chips purpose is or how it works. Sin0822 I like your reviews but just a friendly suggestion, no information is better than misinformation.

I also don't play favorites nor will I ever, credibility comes first for me and I will not ruin mine by sucking up to any manufacturer.

To drive that point home I would do another compare of ASUS PRO versus UD4, however the ASUS PRO has memory compatibility issues for balls to the walls benching as well as general stability issue if not really cold and the UD4 failed on my bench table and can no longer accept "bench" vcore, it's usefull as a daily driver now and thats about it when it decides to boot.

Until then guys seriously this little back and forth stuff between ASUS and Giga is getting kind of old.

Both have hit or miss products in the product cycle, thats life.

If I lose my connection with either or both manufacturers for this post......so be it.

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I doubt you'll lose sample allocation for a statement like this Chew, being honest and objective is a good thing in reviews. And if you do tell it how it is, a recommendation from you holds a lot more weight than someone who always tows the line (readers wise up to things).

-Raja

Very informative thread:up:

For end user (bencher) perspective...it all boils down to affordability and to comprehend which board is good for which bench. I believe theres must be some kind of specific blue print on electrical connection deep in the middle of any pcb board that gave a board its character....You'll find out after sleep and eat with it for at least 2 weeks day in day out:)

After all we only need cpu, pci-e, ram, keyboard and mouse sockets on a mobo to be able to operate it...anything else is an xtra cost

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Originally Posted by Dumo

Very informative thread:up:

For end user (bencher) perspective...it all boils down to affordability and to comprehend which board is good for which bench. I believe theres must be some kind of specific blue print on electrical connection deep in the middle of any pcb board that gave a board its character....You'll find out after sleep and eat with it for at least 2 weeks day in day out:)

After all we only need cpu, pci-e, ram, keyboard and mouse sockets on a mobo to be able to operate it...anything else is an xtra cost

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You keep your mouse Dumo, I will stick with my trackball. :D

The Best Review i've ever seen in my life. Congrats men !

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Originally Posted by raju

This is a proper review - no BS spiel, marketing dress up or crazy assumptions. Excellent work Tin.

-Raja

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+1mil :up::up:

any inside headsup on b3 stepping clockin?? any improvements??

eh no heads up on b3 guys??

They are going out fast but the sheer volume is just staggering causing a major drag in retail shipping.

for B3 i think GB is making some changes to the boards, take a look at the P67X-UD4-B3 posted in the news section that one has more power phases and different heatsink on the SB. I haven't heard much about asus.

I did get an email from microcenter saying that they are offering $25 giftcard if people wait until april/may to exchange their boards, but they have them available. I think GB is changing some things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chew*

Both have hit or miss products in the product cycle, thats life.

If I lose my connection with either or both manufacturers for this post......so be it.

---

Chew for president, Dinos22 first lady :up:

Amazing Report on this Boards TiN :clap: , the best Read i have had in a loong time :yepp: , thank you for taking your time and effort to make this overclocking report so great , informative and a learning experience :up:. I enjoy it :D every word out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

Chew for president, Dinos22 first lady :up:

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That would be one scarry picture :rofl:

wow awesome

again... since i'm new on this forum i don't know what the decorum is for posting on old threads (bad?)
but... my jaw is on the floor from how detailed this review was!:eek:

TiN... if you ever get your hands on the EVGA P67 FTW... please if you have time... review it :)
so far... there are minor bios issues, but the biggest bust for me so far is it seems to not handle memory that well... not sure if it will be fixed with future bios revisions or it is something with their design of the motherboard itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by badatgames18

again... since i'm new on this forum i don't know what the decorum is for posting on old threads (bad?)
but... my jaw is on the floor from how detailed this review was!:eek:

TiN... if you ever get your hands on the EVGA P67 FTW... please if you have time... review it :)
so far... there are minor bios issues, but the biggest bust for me so far is it seems to not handle memory that well... not sure if it will be fixed with future bios revisions or it is something with their design of the motherboard itself.

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I have tested the EVGA FTW and I have to say I'm disappointment in it... CPU voltage is fluctuating a lot, some of the voltages doesn't even apply (VCCSA), very picky for overclocking as I couldn't even reach the clocks I could on MIVE, memory overclocking is very bad. But if you are looking about the performance, it is up to pair with MIVE

I'm a bit late but....Outstanding! I hope you do more like this mate.

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Originally Posted by quake6

I have tested the EVGA FTW and I have to say I'm disappointment in it... CPU voltage is fluctuating a lot, some of the voltages doesn't even apply (VCCSA), very picky for overclocking as I couldn't even reach the clocks I could on MIVE, memory overclocking is very bad. But if you are looking about the performance, it is up to pair with MIVE

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I just started playing with it last night to this morning... holy moley is the memory scaling/overclocking terrible!!!

I have a set that does 7-9-7@1.65v super pi 32m stable on my other motherboards, and this is the absolute best i could muster on the p67 ftw (took hours)
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/783/superpi32mm.png
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4084/superpi1mm.png
vdim,@1.65v
vccio@1.165v

The vcore is very bad also.. in os it shows 1.45 idle and 1.47 load but with my dmm it shows .06 higher at some points.

Is evga going to fix this or should i just sell it and buy a MIVE?

I have the exact same issue with mine. No stability if I tighten past 9-9-9 but on other boards 7-9-7 is fine. Plus it needs more voltage for 5Ghz and it overvolts quite a bit when you measure with DMM. EVGA said they wre working on the overvolting in the next BIOS release. Dont know about mem compatibility tough..

Explained in detail in my review under oc section - http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-12.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by badatgames18

I just started playing with it last night to this morning... holy moley is the memory scaling/overclocking terrible!!!

I have a set that does 7-9-7@1.65v super pi 32m stable on my other motherboards, and this is the absolute best i could muster on the p67 ftw (took hours)

vdim,@1.65v
vccio@1.165v

The vcore is very bad also.. in os it shows 1.45 idle and 1.47 load but with my dmm it shows .06 higher at some points.

Is evga going to fix this or should i just sell it and buy a MIVE?

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