What's the issue with these games?...

Hi folks

I've got a pretty high-spec PC that includes x2 ATI HD5850 cards in Crossfire mode and the CPU is an Intel Core i7 980X Extreme. I'm running Windows 7 64 bit.

If I play Call of Duty: Black Ops, all is fine and dandy except for a minor flickering issue which I can live with (see footnote). However, what is really disappointing is that if I play Battlefield Bad Company 2 OR FarCry 2 the fans start cranking up to full speed really quickly and make quite a din (I don't notice this with CoD) and the games start to get flakey. For example, in FC2 if I go to the bar to talk to someone their character disappears and reappears as I get to close to them and I can't talk to them to receive my next assignment. I notice too that the temperature of one of the ATI cards is about 20C higher than the other (80c as opposed to 60+c). When all is idle the cards are 53c and 40c respectively.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on here. Do the two games I mention use the same game engine but one that's different to CoD? Does it seem possible that one of the cards is faulty or not working correctly? Could the 64bit version of Windows be the issue?

I should point out that I've played both the games on my previous PC running a single ATI HD5850 using a 32bit version of Windows 7 and I didn't have any issues whatsoever.

Any pearls of wisdom?

CoD footnote:
Flickering appears within indoor areas where an artificial lightsource is used (bulb) - it's like the refresh rate is too low. Flickering disappears when I move outside.

Reset all driver settings to factory defaults. And, perhaps, try more recent ones.

Thx for the reply.

Well I've taken out one of the ATI cards and it all seems to work fine now so I guess it was just overheating. What I don't understand is why they have the two cards so close together on a motherboard. This means that one card's cooling fan is right next to the other and drawing lots of heat from it so rather than cool it down it'll just get hotter and hotter. :shakes: Am I missing something here? Why not have a crossfire bridge that's longer and have the PCI-E slots further apart so both cards can get some cool air?

Have you tried servicing the cards giving them a proper dusting ? Maybe the cards are clogged up so the fans are getting noisy.

Use 10.4 drivers, run default settings in CCC, have fun :)

Yes, I've given them a good clean/dust thx but they weren't bad as I've only had the PC about 6 weeks.

Interesting about the 10.4 drivers. AMD/ATI are up to v10.11 which is what I have installed. Are there issues with these latest drivers?

Put an eraser or something between the cards to help the top one stay cooler.

Characters in a game disappearing sounds like an odd issue to relate to heat or crossfire..

My guess is it's the infamous driver issues you get with ATI, now AMD. I used to kid myself when I had a X1950Pro that the merger between the 2 companies might help with QC on drivers, but from what I see, nothing has changed. Nvidia all the way for me. Since getting my new rig with the temp GTS250 solution GPU wise, I've had zero driver issues playing even games like Crysis and Metro 2033.

I might consider an nVidia in the near future but I chose the ATI 5850 because it's supposed to be pretty quiet - which it is. I really don't want some beast of a thing that makes a racket! Any suggestions?

nVidia and ATi have just as many issues with drivers -let's be honest here folks. There've been some shocker issues with nVidia releases, and there've been some shocker issues with ATi driver releases.

First of all, installing 10.4 with a Crossfire setup is not a good idea, because for a significant percentage of users running Crossfire doing so causes a BSOD on reboot - the only way to get the drivers to install correctly for those affected is to physically remove one card, install drivers, reboot, shut down, install second card, reboot. 10.4 is also not really that much better than the latest 11.1 package in the few games in which it is better, and significantly worse in the games released since then.

As for your actual issue - definitely sounds like heat issues. Wedging things between the cards to allow additional airflow may help, as might moving to a different motherboard with different spacing, but something else to try would be to pull the cards apart, clean and re-apply TIM and give the insides of the coolers a good cleaning. Can significantly reduces temps.

A final, more expensive but certainly effective option would be to replace the coolers entire with an aftermarket alternative - which would probably add a bit to the resale value as well.

Did you use Driver Sweeper or something alike when you reinstalled your GPU driver? It sound very unlikely that heat would give you these symptoms. Also, to those of you who didn't know, graphic cards are made so that they draw cool airs from sides and exhaust to outside of computer in the back. Therefore it really doesn't matter if there is absolutely no space between the x-fire setup cards. The cool air is being drawn from the side vent.

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Originally Posted by deaffob

Did you use Driver Sweeper or something alike when you reinstalled your GPU driver? It sound very unlikely that heat would give you these symptoms. Also, to those of you who didn't know, graphic cards are made so that they draw cool airs from sides and exhaust to outside of computer in the back. Therefore it really doesn't matter if there is absolutely no space between the x-fire setup cards. The cool air is being drawn from the side vent.

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Rofl. No. They draw air from the entrance of the fan. This is at the top of the card.

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Originally Posted by deaffob

Did you use Driver Sweeper or something alike when you reinstalled your GPU driver? It sound very unlikely that heat would give you these symptoms. Also, to those of you who didn't know, graphic cards are made so that they draw cool airs from sides and exhaust to outside of computer in the back. Therefore it really doesn't matter if there is absolutely no space between the x-fire setup cards. The cool air is being drawn from the side vent.

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Errrr..... Put your hand over the fan and tell me you don't feel it sucking?:confused:

Issues smishues Soul (can't believe I just said that LOL), we know there are issues on both sides, but from what I've seen they are far more significant, prevalent and long lasting on ATI's side of the fence. ATI GPUs are also far more likely to launch with driver issues, often taking up to 3 months to sort out.

When I've had problems with ATI drivers, which many times I did, it was either a long wait, no solution came, or I had to suffice with Omega 3rd party drivers, which were merely ATI drivers given a makeover.

Angel Trinidad's Omega drivers all along have been primarily for ATI cards. He only briefly wrote Nvidia ones during the time period they first took on SLI. The last thing I read from Angel on even the latest gens of ATI drivers is that he feels their installer is moronic in so many words, and of course, as always, their drivers STILL need a serious makeover.

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Originally Posted by LindaLoo

I might consider an nVidia in the near future...Any suggestions?

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I can't really offer any sound suggestions without knowing your budget, what games and settings you want to play/use, and what PSU, CPU and resolution you're using. Even the case you have can factor in as some GPUs run warmer than others. There's a lot of good choices now, but I'd lean toward one of the 500 series if you can afford it. Possibly a 570 with a good OC once the prices come down. Unfortunately it's harder to get good pricing on such things in the UK, and I don't know the vendors over there very well.

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Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

I can't really offer any sound suggestions without knowing your budget, what games and settings you want to play/use, and what PSU, CPU and resolution you're using. Even the case you have can factor in as some GPUs run warmer than others. There's a lot of good choices now, but I'd lean toward one of the 500 series if you can afford it. Possibly a 570 with a good OC once the prices come down. Unfortunately it's harder to get good pricing on such things in the UK, and I don't know the vendors over there very well.

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I was thinking about a 570 - the Gainward Phantom is looking pretty appealing. That can be had for just a whisker over £300 in the UK if you look hard enough. I would not go for an SLI configuration. I've got the following spec'd PC:

Case: CoolerMaster ATCS 840
PSU: Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850 Modular PSU
CPU: Intel Core i7 980X Extreme
x2 regular hard drives and a couple of SSDs
Monitor: 22" running at 1680 x 1050

The Gainward Phantom is overclocked to some degree which is fine with me and it seems to have some effective (and quiet) cooling. I don't want a noisy beast that struggles to keep temperatures under control so extreme O/C is not really for me so I'd probably be happy with a 'stock' 570.

Any other suggestions Frag Maniac?

Oh, and the games I play most are:

CoD: Black Ops
Battlefield: BC2
The Sims 3
Far Cry 2

Wow, that's excellent spec. I was expecting far less for the GPU you have. I'd say it's indeed time for an upgrade. With that gear I'd get the best GPU you can. The thing is though, the games you mentioned especially at that resolution would easily be handled by one 570. It leaves me wondering why you sound like the GPU is hard to afford when you have an expensive CPU, PSU, case, and two SSDs as well.

If you're against the idea of SLI, there is the 590 dual GPU card coming out. That system certainly wouldn't be overshadowed by it.

Thanks Frag! :)

It's not particularly that I can't afford a better card it's the noise issue that I'm wary of. I don't want fans screaming away in an effort to keep things cool. ;)

I guess then a 580 would be good to consider too or, as you say, wait for a dual GPU 590 to appear. Decisions decisions!!

The 580 would indeed be good, and if you read up on the new design, you'll find they dramatically improved the cooler efficiency from what the 480 had. It is cooled by a vapor chamber and the result is far less heat and noise. The 580s come with fairly low fan speeds because they're so efficient. Keep in mind too that the games you're talking about would be easily handled by the 580 without it's fan winding up much at all. So don't worry about that so much. The latest drivers also enhance performance a fair bit.

I was just throwing the 590 out there as a suggestion due to your not wanting to SLI and the fact that your spec is quite high. Truth be told I'd be cautious of going that route until the 590's performance, temps, cooler design and noise levels are known. There have only been rumors and sneek peeks of supposed prototypes thus far, but so far I'm not liking that the coolers I've seen use multiple rotary fans vs a blower fan, which dumps heat back into your case vs blowing it out the back.

But does the 590 exist at all?
I wasn't aware of that.

Did you buy your computer, or did you build it yourself? 5850 Crossfire seems like overkill for such a low rez monitor..

Anyway, I'm with Frag. Sell the 5850s and buy the best single core GPU currently available; the GTX 580. That will allow you to play at blazing framerates for any game at your current resolution. If you ever decide to upgrade your monitor, the GTX 580 also handles 1920x1200 really well, and even 2560x1600....though it does struggle a bit in certain games at that rez.

I had Crossfire a few years ago when the 4870s just came out.......never again I tell ya! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Issues smishues Soul (can't believe I just said that LOL), we know there are issues on both sides, but from what I've seen they are far more significant, prevalent and long lasting on ATI's side of the fence. ATI GPUs are also far more likely to launch with driver issues, often taking up to 3 months to sort out.

When I've had problems with ATI drivers, which many times I did, it was either a long wait, no solution came, or I had to suffice with Omega 3rd party drivers, which were merely ATI drivers given a makeover.

Angel Trinidad's Omega drivers all along have been primarily for ATI cards. He only briefly wrote Nvidia ones during the time period they first took on SLI. The last thing I read from Angel on even the latest gens of ATI drivers is that he feels their installer is moronic in so many words, and of course, as always, their drivers STILL need a serious makeover.I can't really offer any sound suggestions without knowing your budget, what games and settings you want to play/use, and what PSU, CPU and resolution you're using. Even the case you have can factor in as some GPUs run warmer than others. There's a lot of good choices now, but I'd lean toward one of the 500 series if you can afford it. Possibly a 570 with a good OC once the prices come down. Unfortunately it's harder to get good pricing on such things in the UK, and I don't know the vendors over there very well.

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so you offer nothing to the thread other than ATI sucks and you should buy greenteam instead? seems like a frequent post by you, maybe stay out of ATI threads?

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Originally Posted by Circaflex

so you offer nothing to the thread other than ATI sucks and you should buy greenteam instead? seems like a frequent post by you, maybe stay out of ATI threads?

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Actually you're proving yourself more a fanboy (and tool for that matter) than I by claiming a thread that merely contains the mention of the author having an ATI GPU to be an "ATI thread". Furthermore if you can't handle hearing opinions from someone whom had owned ATI cards for around 7 yrs straight before deciding to go back to Nvidia, then maybe you should be the one staying out of threads that openly discuss the two brands (without such hostilities I might add before you came along).

Aside from that, the person asking the question already mentioned she might consider an Nvidia in the near future, which verifies it's not an "ATI thread" as you put it. Clearly she's open to suggestions from either brand owners. Ultimately it's her decision, not yours or mine, but she's obviously not getting helpful input from your personal wisecracks or assumptions.

The fact is I already offered far more than you by detailing why system specs are necessary to assess upgrade options, along with some details on the latest cooler designs (which AMD followed Nvidia with btw after the 580 came out), and the fact that her current build is a bit unbalanced with it's existing GPU. All you offered was hot air conjured up by the mere mention of my preferring Nvidia over ATI.

Obviously it annoys some ATI/AMD fanatics when people mention their bad experiences and decided change of brands, I've seen it countless times, but when their reactions are voiced with such petty anger and personal insult, it makes it rather obvious why the words we speak strike a nerve. Some don't like to admit the money they saved came with compromises.

That's somewhat of a fallacious argument. I agree the ad hominem attack was undeserved, although you're certainly leaving yourself open to accusations by dismissing nVidia problems as "issues smishues" - but "the money they saved came with compromises"? Please. nVidia was responsible for something like 40-50% of Windows Vista BSODs when it first launched, it took them years to get SLi working properly with more than one monitor, many of their releases have broken performance in older games, they still haven't fixed several simple compatibility issues, and their implementation of multi-monitor displays is still inferior to ATi.

I accept that you personally may have had less issues with nVidia cards than with ATi - there's no way I can't. Your experience is not mine to question. The plural of anecdote, however, is not not data - in the same way that I can't be anti-nVidia because the cards that I've used from them have been plagued with issues.

Getting back to the actual topic of the thread - I'm pretty certain the OP's problems are heat-related, for which there are number of solutions as I posted above. However, something else that might be worth checking is PSU - it could be that with both cards under full load you're stressing the PSU too heavily and causing crashes, while one card alone doesn't draw sufficient power to trigger the problem. Have you tried testing with another pair of cards?

Well thank you gentleman...I think :p:

In answer to your various questions:

The PC was built (on my detailed spec) by a custom PC builder. I agree the GPUs look rather underpowered compared to the rest of the system but as I already had an ATI HD5850 (which I've been happy with) I got them to install a new 5850 and then added my own card into the mix when I received the new build. I've not had experience of Crossfire before so felt this would be a decent enough 'upgrade' on my previous single-card solution. In hindsight, I should probably have gone for a single nVidia GTX 570/580 as either would more than meet my needs. I'm not considering a new monitor yet as my eyesight is a bit of an issue and I'm worried the text will appear too small for comfort.

I did have an nVidia something-or-other a while back which I ended up selling as I couldn't stand the noise it made. To be honest, this rather put me off nVidias (hence my ATI 5850 purchase) but, as Frag Maniac says (and I've since read various reviews), the current crop of nVidias seem to have largely resolved this issue.

Unfortunately I don't have any other cards laying around to try!! :eek: :D

So, in conclusion, I think I'll forget Crossfire (and SLI for that matter). I shall sell the two HD5850s and get a GTX 570 or 580 once I've decided on which make/model I fancy.

BTW, in case anyone is interested I had a Prolimatech Megahalems Rev B 1156 CPU cooler installed and chose this Noctua fan and together they're doing an excellent (and quiet!) job - the processor ticks along at around 28C when idle. :)

Thanks again for all your contributions but in particular Frag Maniac. :buddies:

I just thought I'd post a quick follow-up to say that I've now got an nVidia GTX 580 from MSI and all is working fine and dandy!! I chose this particular model as it's designed to run even cooler and quieter than the standard fare.

http://p.gzhls.at/612931.jpg

I've done a little gentle overclocking to 820/1640MHz and there's no noticeable difference in temperatures or fan speed.

Yeah the MSI Twin Frozr models are popular, and can be had at a decent price. My only nit pick is the custom cooler is not a true rear venting type even though it has a rear vent, but the heat it dumps into the case is probably not too hot since the cooler is pretty good.

What app are you using to OC and test with? I assume MSI's Afterburner with Kombustor? A 20MHz bump is a mere 2.5% boost and not enough to get a noticeable change in performance or temps though, esp with a starting point of 800MHz. I have my GTS 250 bumped up from 675MHz to 740MHz, about a 9.6% boost, which is just shy of the highest clocked 768MHz models available. I'd have gone higher but due to Pailt's non rear venting single fan cooler, it's already up to 70c running Kombustor for 5 min, which is all the warmer I care to let it get since the heat isn't rear vented. That is with a 120mm fan on my side panel pointed right at it btw. I suggest if you take yours up over 850MHz, which it should easily do, consider a fan aimed at it if your case allows for it.