Proper test of thermal pastes

After many speculations about which impact thermal pastes have when overclocking at really low temperatures I decided to test it out.

To get some good results I produced a simple dummy heat load consisting of five power resistors developing around 36W each (180W total). This should be close to what a cpu produces under these conditions.

http://imup.se/i/PTor6Q9LxP.jpg

The setup consists of this dummy load with a F1EE standing on top of it (figured the weight was enough). One thermal probe is attached to the base of the pot and the other to one of the power resistors.

http://imup.se/i/YQKcMqXlkq.jpg

The thermal pastes tested were Arctic Cooling Ceramique, OCZ Freeze and Antec Formula 7. The results were the following:

http://imup.se/i/GZtmRIG1xT.png

Temperature delta:

http://imup.se/i/qbp3ephklK.png

As you can see Ceramique is terrible all the way, the Antec is doing very good however failing when temperatures are reaching around -50*C. The OCZ is clearly the winner but something particular happens at around -165*C. The dummy load temperature suddenly starts increasing. The temperature delta increases from around 50*C to 70*C and stays there until I went back to around -50*C pot temp.

I'll try to get my hands on some more thermal pastes to find an alternative to the Freeze which is EOL.

this is good mate thanks

Great job Jon !! Some say the ceramique works better if you heat up first, let it cool down and then start benching...

Thanks for posting this up Jon!

Some more ideas in here:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?t=6122

Last time I buy Arctic Ceramique then.....

There must be something that uses the same recipe as OCZ Freeze?

nice work elmor....

some tim/pastes just freeze and becomes an insulator at really cold temps....

also applying something really thin helps alot...

how did you apply the thermalpaste?

nice findings, maby next time try without thermal paste so we can se how much it helps or maby even makes the tempreture worse

so what we have to do ? benching without thermal paste?

dow corning how it perfoms ?

Get some Shin Etsu!

Nice work Elmor...
That s a pity we can t find OCZ freeze...
I did try PerformancePC, Sidewindercomputers, Frozen CPU and Petra's Shop...then...is very hard to find...
Do you know where are the thermal for sell???

I might try gelid GC extreme...heard it was pretty damn good

rbauss i got heaps of ocz freeze if you want some mate, Cant wait to see more tests with some shin/mx- series

One of the reasons I have used ocz for a while... actually its not.. I stumbled on it by chance...

It would be cool to try different methods of applying the paste also to see if it makes a difference... should make for a great read...

Keep it up... :)

http://www.amazon.com/Ocztfrztc-Extr.../dp/B00128TA78 is the only legit place I can find it at.

Very interesting results :)

I'd love to see ICD7 tested if you're planning to continue doing this testing. I switched from ceramique to ICD7 on a CB free chip and gained ~200MHz could have been a fluke who knows. IIRC, the thermal conductivity of diamond is higher than copper at cryogenic temperatures so should be pretty solid.

so arctic ceramique sucks in subzero?
well its good to hear after buying a 22gr tube .. .. .... .

ICD7 or antec formula 7 ?? anyone tryed ?

nice test elmor , iam using the ocz freeze on my 275 gtx , but sombody says TITAN NANO BLUE is better
again nice test m8

I have tryed 8~10 thermal paste (coolmaster,noctua,revoltec,.....)
best than these they is titan nano grease and revoltec nano grease
http://www.revoltec.net/revoltec.net...websiteLang=en
http://www.titan-cd.com/product/show...sp?ProID=861:D

Nice work elmor
Tnx for sharing:up:

Well done, just a pity that you dont have more different thermal pastes (MX-3, generic Zalman, AS5)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...highlight=tsan
wprime 32m revoltec nano grease
wprime 1024m+3dmarck06+vantage titan nano grease

how did you collect temp data, elmor ? :)

It's unclear from your post.

You can mod your flukes to have dual channel on both and to make precise data logs from them (max speed = 1 meas/sec).

Like this :

http://xdevs.com/kpc/fluke5x/flog1.png

I did the guide on KPC forums ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

nice work elmor....

some tim/pastes just freeze and becomes an insulator at really cold temps....

also applying something really thin helps alot...

how did you apply the thermalpaste?

---

Just a blob that spreads out when I mount the pot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dani-boy

nice findings, maby next time try without thermal paste so we can se how much it helps or maby even makes the tempreture worse

---

I tested really quickly and it's way worse. Already at positive temperatures the delta was around 80*C.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rbuass

Nice work Elmor...
That s a pity we can t find OCZ freeze...
I did try PerformancePC, Sidewindercomputers, Frozen CPU and Petra's Shop...then...is very hard to find...
Do you know where are the thermal for sell???

---

It's hard to find since it's EOL. There should be some other good ones though :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsan

I have tryed 8~10 thermal paste (coolmaster,noctua,revoltec,.....)
best than these they is titan nano grease and revoltec nano grease
http://www.revoltec.net/revoltec.net...websiteLang=en
http://www.titan-cd.com/product/show...sp?ProID=861:D

---

Cool, will have to try and get some of those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiN_EOF

how did you collect temp data, elmor ? :)

It's unclear from your post.

You can mod your flukes to have dual channel on both and to make precise data logs from them (max speed = 1 meas/sec).

Like this :

I did the guide on KPC forums ;)

---

Manually :P Havn't had time to start modding the flukes yet (have ordered parts though).

nice elmor, Dino and I have been banging on about this for a few months now, it is a very interesting subject,

I have been collecting data on 10 thermal pastes over the last month,

Ceramique delta I have found to be very good over repeated tests but it fails miserably at -120, but if you have a -100 chip the delta can be nothing..

I have tested Antec Formula7, Ceramique, Arctic Silver, Noctua, Thermalright, Coolaboratory, OCZ Freeze, some others I can't remember LOL

If you check the specifications of all these products, the lowest any of them claim to be rated is -50.. But we are all using lower than this right?

oh guys OCZ freeze is EOL now..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elmor

Just a blob that spreads out when I mount the pot.

---

ceramique is multiphase..you have to heat the pot up so that it will change into another phase...when you tightten the pot it does spread out..but better compared to ceramique that is cold

Jon, have time to do a spring loaded test?

Contact pressure is important and may skew results a bit as thickness of the TIM may vary. .

Side note:
IT outlet in Taiwan has more TIM variation than we could ever name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Jon, have time to do a spring loaded test?

Contact pressure is important and may skew results a bit as thickness of the TIM may vary. .

Side note:
IT outlet in Taiwan has more TIM variation than we could ever name.

---

sheeet i didn't see its mounted....good eye boss:up:

some tims expand when going too cold...

i think the spike or the sudden increase in temperature indicates the pot tilted a little and that contact isn't perfect anymore...

seems to be plenty of freeze at the OCZ Gear store:
http://gear.ocztechnology.com/produc...und/index.html

what about ic diamond.

diamond based like ICD7 ? how they works ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Jon, have time to do a spring loaded test?

Contact pressure is important and may skew results a bit as thickness of the TIM may vary. .

Side note:
IT outlet in Taiwan has more TIM variation than we could ever name.

---

Spring load is a great point as continuous pressure helps the compound resolve down to it's bond line thickness or average particle size.

With screws alone you hit a point where it feels secure - the screws are set at a position that does not move and now when you apply heat the paste continues to flow leaving a light contact or gap and should be re-torqued like the head gasket on old cars to get the proper contact.

Here is one where the end user used a torque wrench to get a calibrated pressure. Great way to maximize temp performance

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=681429

Also you can do a room temperature test to indicate whether a compound has reached it's Bond Line Thickness (BLT) as a general guide By taking an IHS Sized piece of metal between 2 pieces of glass, apply the compound with 4 binder clips @ approx 50 -60 psi and use a micrometer at timed intervals 1 min, 5 min, 10 min, 30 min, 1 hr, 2 hr. to mic the thickness and time to spread or resolve down to it optimal limit.

I found that 2hours @ cold or ambient room had most compounds at near the BLT in 2 -3 hours with maybe a minor improvement overnight with constant pressure @ 60 psi. If your are subzeroing compounds a pre cure would be in order otherwise the compound would possibly harden at a thicker BLT if it is cooled before it has a chance to spread.

FrostyTech is using peltier element to simulate selected heat loads. Though they test coolers, not thermal pastes.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=351527

Anyone got any opinion on this stuff? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by youngpro

nice elmor, Dino and I have been banging on about this for a few months now, it is a very interesting subject,

I have been collecting data on 10 thermal pastes over the last month,

Ceramique delta I have found to be very good over repeated tests but it fails miserably at -120, but if you have a -100 chip the delta can be nothing..

I have tested Antec Formula7, Ceramique, Arctic Silver, Noctua, Thermalright, Coolaboratory, OCZ Freeze, some others I can't remember LOL

If you check the specifications of all these products, the lowest any of them claim to be rated is -50.. But we are all using lower than this right?

oh guys OCZ freeze is EOL now..

---

^ this

when this info comes out fellas it will put this subject to bed forever and I wouldnt go out of my way looking for any paste just yet if i were you ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Jon, have time to do a spring loaded test?

Contact pressure is important and may skew results a bit as thickness of the TIM may vary. .

Side note:
IT outlet in Taiwan has more TIM variation than we could ever name.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hondacity

sheeet i didn't see its mounted....good eye boss:up:

some tims expand when going too cold...

i think the spike or the sudden increase in temperature indicates the pot tilted a little and that contact isn't perfect anymore...

---

Testing with higher mounting pressure would of course yield better results, however I've repeated these tests atleast twice with same results. It will still show how much of an insulator the different TIMs becomes at these temps. The spike is not because of some tilt, I've seen this many times when benching (at a certain temp the benchmark crashes and you can't run the same frequencies again). For next round I'll try to make some proper mounting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tastymannatees

Spring load is a great point as continuous pressure helps the compound resolve down to it's bond line thickness or average particle size.

With screws alone you hit a point where it feels secure - the screws are set at a position that does not move and now when you apply heat the paste continues to flow leaving a light contact or gap and should be re-torqued like the head gasket on old cars to get the proper contact.

Here is one where the end user used a torque wrench to get a calibrated pressure. Great way to maximize temp performance

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=681429

Also you can do a room temperature test to indicate whether a compound has reached it's Bond Line Thickness (BLT) as a general guide By taking an IHS Sized piece of metal between 2 pieces of glass, apply the compound with 4 binder clips @ approx 50 -60 psi and use a micrometer at timed intervals 1 min, 5 min, 10 min, 30 min, 1 hr, 2 hr. to mic the thickness and time to spread or resolve down to it optimal limit.

I found that 2hours @ cold or ambient room had most compounds at near the BLT in 2 -3 hours with maybe a minor improvement overnight with constant pressure @ 60 psi. If your are subzeroing compounds a pre cure would be in order otherwise the compound would possibly harden at a thicker BLT if it is cooled before it has a chance to spread.

---

Very interesting points, as I said more perfect results can be achieved but from my real world experiences these numbers match very well.

how about tests for aircooling like subzero air? :p:

nice test however :up:

I love posts like this, I bet they have some accountant at OCZ scratching thier head, wondering why freeze sales have just jumped by 900%.

did some testing too..

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f.../LN2test-1.jpg

as you can see, with Formula7 i was able to test at -140 (CB at -149), while with OCZ Freeze, the CPU coldbugs at -133..

in my oppinion clear evidance of bad heat transfer of the thermalpaste..

CPU-pot used was the SF3D pot, mounted firmly.
(CPU = 980X at 1.85v)

I smell thermal paste sharing to be banned on Hwbot soon !!!

You of all shouldn't be talking about hardware sharing Albrecht, after last night's livestream your suspect of serious crime :rofl:

Good stuff Jon, keep it coming!
Pressure, hmm.... 2kg of a F1EE is some pressure, isnt it? I dont see why he should add further, gives a good idea bout the figures anyway...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ME4ME

You of all shouldn't be talking about hardware sharing Albrecht, after last night's livestream your suspect of serious crime :rofl:

---

Is that about K404's sister? :D

I clearly explained our thoughts on the matter Henry. HW sharing is a no go ! We have all the cards don't worry (piccies have been taken)

Only things shared for 3D 01/03 was Gamers REX board, my 8600 CPU and CSX rams for the S775 scores... The other 3D scores with the I7 : my and Rogers REX III and GTX2 rams and Gamers now dead GT CPU.

GPU's were all all over the place ( in fact I still needed to do about 9 cards (6 Nvidias and 3 ATI cards) but ran out of time... think the other still needed to bench a lot of cards too... my 3 S775 OSses were so fubarred with the multitude of ATI driver installs, that in the end 3 XP installs refused to even recognise an ATI card... what a mess :down:

And we like to mess with our viewers, a whopping 5 fans lol !!! talk about pressure on our shoulders...

And Marc if there's one thing that I don't share : it's my woman !!! Massman I kindly share :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ME4ME

did some testing too..

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f.../LN2test-1.jpg

as you can see, with Formula7 i was able to test at -140 (CB at -149), while with OCZ Freeze, the CPU coldbugs at -133..

in my oppinion clear evidance of bad heat transfer of the thermalpaste..

CPU-pot used was the SF3D pot, mounted firmly.
(CPU = 980X at 1.85v)

---

Thanks for the additional results. My Ceramique is not exactly fresh from the store so that might be what's giving me such bad results with it.

has anybody tried apeizon n? the stuff is way expensive for thermal paste (like +$100)

http://www.apiezon.com/uploads/apiez...onductance.pdf

looks to be pretty good from what i can tell.

still trying it...

i just got newer stuff from rosewill too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

still trying it...

i just got newer stuff from rosewill too...

---

still trying apiezon n? i was interested in its pliability at room temps since every description of it says "rubber" but its a "grease" so i cant really imagine how liquidy it really is. its thermal properties around lhe is pretty amazing. at 77k like nitrogen has it should be over the 100 w/m mark

i had a higher cb with it...i was expecting lower...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

i had a higher cb with it...i was expecting lower...

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if thermal conductivity is higher at lower temps... wouldnt you expect higher cb then?

Would be nice to see more results of diff tim's.

I use as ceramic at the moment.
But I'm getting tired of it.
As5 gets me 2-3c lower if applied right, but it's not worth it.
As ceramic lasts 2-3x longer then as5, for me anyways, that's why I use it.
But it still leaks/seperates and makes a mess.
Heck my tube of it is starting to seperate now :(, started doing that after I took it over a cousin's house this month, apperently it got to cold for the last time.

So I'm interested in seeing if there's any possible replacement.
I'm sick of tim's that leak or seperate and make a mess, and I'm sick of replacing it all the time.
2 weeks (super thin layer of as5).
As5 normal for me is a month, or a month and a half at best before I am forced to replace it from overheating.
3 months+ for as ceramic, from mild temp increases.

As2 or was it 3?, whatever it was before 5.
Seemed to last a bit longer then as5 did, for me anyways.
But that was so long ago, maybe I just didn't care about 3-10c back then.

Shin etsu, the good types of it are so hard to find, plus it's never a reasonable price.
Unlike 22g of as ceramic, which is affordable :\.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZenEffect

if thermal conductivity is higher at lower temps... wouldnt you expect higher cb then?

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their claims don't reflect from my testing...

we tested celerons that didn't have cold bugs ..cele was putting out something like 200watts.

at ln2 temps...the thinned out icd was doing better.. with the cb free celeron..

here's the result of icd

http://hwbot.org/community/submissio...60_7932.67_mhz

the ap-n can't do that..

I just thaught of a compound to test.

I know this is gonna sound silly but...
A cousin of mine, along time ago didn't have any tim for his p4.
So he used diaper rash ointment.
A month or 2 later I replaced it with as ceramic, for the heck of it, he didn't need it but I figuered it could help and why not replace it with something that is supposed to work better.

Well, in that 1 case, the only time that I've compared diaper rash ointment as a tim, it had a lower delta then as ceramic did at those higher temps that he normally ran at.
After replacing with as ceramic, his temps were higher, not lower at all.
I sat there for a half hour waiting for it to break in and lower temps below that of his make shift tim, and it never did.

So if you you are willing, probably not...
Try testing some diaper rash ointment.
I'm not sure what kind it has to be or anything though.

I'm semi serious about this.
It's probably not the best, but it might beat some of the other tim's out there.

I've never used it myself.
I just remembered it now and it got me thinking.
If it is worth something..., then perhaps we can just make our own tim or something that works better then at least as5 or as ceramic out of cheap stuffs.

I'm not joking though dudes, and I'm not trying to troll or anything.

fyi most discussions were with subzero temps...ie -100c and greater...

good luck with your experiments though

I'm fully aware of the temps this user review is testing at.

I looked it up, it's the zinc oxide varient.
Might be more stable of a compound that some of those tim's.
That's why I mentioned it...
:)
But If you guys just wanna ignore it, then no biggy.
Just a suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZenEffect

if thermal conductivity is higher at lower temps... wouldnt you expect higher cb then?

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you should expect lower cb....if the thermal conductivity is higher..the imc will get frozen fast...thus lower cb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEOAethyr

I'm fully aware of the temps this user review is testing at.

I looked it up, it's the zinc oxide varient.
Might be more stable of a compound that some of those tim's.
That's why I mentioned it...
:)
But If you guys just wanna ignore it, then no biggy.
Just a suggestion.

---

i see...i might have not time to test this...but i'll search for some tims with zinc oxide base...

Hey Jon, I appreciate the effort, but the point of TIM is to facilitate the thermal transfer between IHS or nucleus and POT. Synthetic loads can barely be called relevant, not so say proper, same goes for synthetic test surfaces...

There was a review few years back and they used a number of different pastes and one of them was toothpaste can't remember if it was the control or just for kicks. Either way the uber fancy thermal pastes aren't always best I remember the stuff from radioshack for quite some time was just as good as everything else.

Thanks for testing.

This thread is kinda funny and elmor i do respect your testing but OCZ doesn't make paste.........they just bottle an OEM's paste..........

So how much are you guys paying for a tiny ass tube? :shakes:


My pastes are straight from OEM's ;)

The tube on right just some FYI is small least for me and amount of cpu swaps i do daily....., only 1fl oz.........cost $6.99

http://chew.ln2cooling.com/XS%20mods/paste.jpg

Ya there are 2-3 big OEM's, the vast majority is just slightly changes in reciept ~

I have a couple of points.

How did you secure your dummyloads to the hotplate? Thermal paste is needed between the resistors and the hotplate and you need sufficient clamping force to insure a nice thermal bond.

Which resistor were you measuring and where were you measuring from? If you were measuring from a resistor that wasn't directly underneath the CPU pot it may not be receiving adequate cooling as your thin aluminum hot plate won't be the best thermal transfer medium.

Some of the thicker pastes require a thermal cycling in order to thin them. With Ceramique I get consistently tissue paper thin mounts by heating the pot to 70-80C, rotating and pushing the pot against the CPU and then pulling the pot down to my running temperatures. My Ceramique tube must be a year old and requires an excessive amount of force to squeeze out of the gigantic tube I use but the thermal cycling does wonders for creating a thin/optimal mount.

I'll have to give this OCZ Freeze a shot. Anyone know which product OCZ was rebranding?

Note- I'm not snubbing Elmor's results but just pointing out several ways I can see to achieve more accurate results. Testing like this is important as it gets us thinking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

I'll have to give this OCZ Freeze a shot. Anyone know which product OCZ was rebranding?

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Zinc oxide paste..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chew*

Zinc oxide paste..........

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Right. That's like saying "This car uses gasoline.". Looks like there are a lot of various grades of zinc oxide suspensions/creams/pastes/powders. Going to rebuild my loadtester first and then have a little fun with this.

Now I'm really interested in tests comparing generic dowcorning zinc oxide paste to as ceramic.

Even if it's just these sub zero tests.

AS ceramic in theory would have a few extras in it to hold it together better.
But it certainly doesn't work...
I'm defently interested in results of the original formula bais.


To go back and think about it, been using as ceramic all this time...
I remember when I switched off from using as silver, thinking what a fool I was.
Now, it's like that all over again with as ceramic.
Replacing the tim on chipsets, using as ceramic when the original paste was probably better anyways (seemed like it sometimes), wow.., yeah that sucks...

I also wonder what alternatives there is to zinc oxide.
One would be obvious, silver oxide (shouldn't be less conductive then normal silver).
But there might be others.
Zinc isn't exactly the top contender when it comes to thermal/electrical conductivity.

Looking on ebay right now, seems you can buy zinc oxide powder.
Which makes the gel white, silicone isn't normally white...
Lol it's baby powder..., hmm I wonder if I got any around that's pure, I don't know if I have silicone though.

An alternative to the silicone might be something too.
That might be better then replacing the zinc oxide.
I'm thinking mineral oil or something, just off the top of my head, I have done 0 research though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEOAethyr

Now I'm really interested in tests comparing generic dowcorning zinc oxide paste to as ceramic.

Even if it's just these sub zero tests.

AS ceramic in theory would have a few extras in it to hold it together better.
But it certainly doesn't work...
I'm defently interested in results of the original formula bais.


To go back and think about it, been using as ceramic all this time...
I remember when I switched off from using as silver, thinking what a fool I was.
Now, it's like that all over again with as ceramic.
Replacing the tim on chipsets, using as ceramic when the original paste was probably better anyways (seemed like it sometimes), wow.., yeah that sucks...

I also wonder what alternatives there is to zinc oxide.
One would be obvious, silver oxide (shouldn't be less conductive then normal silver).
But there might be others.
Zinc isn't exactly the top contender when it comes to thermal/electrical conductivity.

Looking on ebay right now, seems you can buy zinc oxide powder.
Which makes the gel white, silicone isn't normally white...
Lol it's baby powder..., hmm I wonder if I got any around that's pure, I don't know if I have silicone though.

An alternative to the silicone might be something too.
That might be better then replacing the zinc oxide.
I'm thinking mineral oil or something, just off the top of my head, I have done 0 research though.

---

the issue is not conductivity as that plays little role here with cpu's that have 4 barriers before it reaches the core now anyway..........

first you have copper..........now there are diff grades of that.......

then you have paste also diff grades.......

then you have another pices of copper.......also diff grades I imagine.

Next you have indium or some other thermal interface depending, for instance nvidia is using a paste still, amd/intel indium...........

all this negates conductivity which also changes based on temp......

The key thing is if it freezes or doesn't freeze......as your conductivity is null an void based on your weakest conductor.......many cases indium solder.

TBH I use neither, the stuff on the left in pic is what I use and it has proven itself even at LHe temps.

Forgive my blindness lol, but I can't see all of the label for the left tube in the pic ;).
You mind if I ask what it is?

Of course, this is a bit extreme... but...
Honestly, isn't that what it's all about?

1. Toss chip into milling vise. That's right, set it right there in the vise. Turn on coolant.
2. Machine through groove into IHS. Remove in interior portion of the IHS. Leave the outer ring. Save interior ring for proof of what it is.
3. Machine periphery down to make good "boundary prevention of tip of cooler." This will get lapped down with the silicon. Clean the whole thing off with brake cleaner or something similar.
4. Hone the silicon (there's a HUGE blanket of non-active silicon on the chip be sensible and it won't hurt anything). I've used water or WD-40 as the cutting fluid. You can get a granite tile from Lowes as your surface plate
5. Carefully protect any exposed transistors with dielectric something or another.
6. Mix up your own thermal suspension (do some research and you'll find stuff better than ceramic, or silver).
7. Put the stuff together nice and square with a fair amount of pressure
8. Achieve better results (assuming you aren't near a cold bug temp for that particular die)

People forget that there's a TON of links in the heat conductivity chain between the die and the top of the IHS. I know for a fact that EVERY CPU has a cold bug. Every single one. It's just some of them never experience them as they are hiding under a blanket of silicon, indium, IHS, THermal Paste, Pot/Fan/Chiller/etc.

Don't be a baby, start taking off the blankets. ;)

You only stand the chance of killing the chip, destroying resale, etc.
But, the chance for increased results is better. Not to mention the fact that naked silicon is dead sexy.

I dunno how many naked chips we've lapped without issues. But you can't expect to treat them the same way by reefing down with cooler pressure!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEOAethyr

Forgive my blindness lol, but I can't see all of the label for the left tube in the pic ;).
You mind if I ask what it is?

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its paste and its dow corning, other than that thats all i'm willing to offer, namely becasue trying to aquire it will be fruitless.

I do wish they would use copper lids instead of what appears to be steal...
Same goes for chipsets, especially chipsets...

I know I'de feal at ease knowing that there's a copper lid on my chipset instead of it being bare..., these days I tend to be careful about it as possible, it's not like back when you had the cores covered in silicon.
This is all offtopic though :).

Edit:
Lol chew...
If it's so hard to get for the avg person, then why not show us the label of ingrediants for that sucker lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEOAethyr

I do wish they would use copper lids instead of what appears to be steal...
Same goes for chipsets, especially chipsets...

I know I'de feal at ease knowing that there's a copper lid on my chipset instead of it being bare..., these days I tend to be careful about it as possible, it's not like back when you had the cores covered in silicon.
This is all offtopic though :).

Edit:
Lol chew...
If it's so hard to get for the avg person, then why not show us the label of ingrediants for that sucker lol.

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becasue the ingredients label is faded off and worn, thus the reason i pulled sticker back just to show the OEM label ;)

is that the dc-tc5026?

i guess the label being worn off that would be hard to find out........

I don't know if they make tc-5026 anymore.
But they do make a tc-5600.
Impossible to find though.

TC-5022, you can get on ebay, international, for over $10 for 3.5grams ^^.
Seems like it might be easier to just call them up and ask them for 1kg of it for some sort of reasonable price...
Being that the plant seems to be in michigan and all...

Another thing, seems like they use there own products to make this stuff.
Like there silicone grease for example.
If you knew exactly what they used for some of the higher end stuff, you could just order the ingrediants, there brand, and make the tim yourself.


Comparing tc-5022 to that of artic silver brand compounds, is it just me or does it appear that AS false advertises big time in there specs...
You can't even compare with the spec's listed because AS has there specs way jacked up, no way AS brands could be up to 50,000+ times better...

Edit:
Note, shelf life of tc-5022 which is a white paste btw, is 2 years.
The silver? baised tc-5600, 1 year...
Interesting to see a real spec on something like this, something that isn't made up bs.

Not a bad little test, but I'd like to see the AS Ceramique results after its classic curing time (200hrs). I'd bet it would fair much better in your tests then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ket

Not a bad little test, but I'd like to see the AS Ceramique results after its classic curing time (200hrs). I'd bet it would fair much better in your tests then.

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I have to agree with Ket here.
Elmor, have you become a noob? Dont you usually run your LN2 for 200 hours straight? :down:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ket

Not a bad little test, but I'd like to see the AS Ceramique results after its classic curing time (200hrs). I'd bet it would fair much better in your tests then.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by M.Beier

I have to agree with Ket here.
Elmor, have you become a noob? Dont you usually run your LN2 for 200 hours straight? :down:

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:rofl::ROTF:

:rofl: Ket making another valuable contribution to the community I see

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M.Beier

I have to agree with Ket here.
Elmor, have you become a noob? Dont you usually run your LN2 for 200 hours straight? :down:

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+100 Best remark of the year award goes to Marc Beier !! :clap:

Jon is slacking somehow :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstru

Hey Jon, I appreciate the effort, but the point of TIM is to facilitate the thermal transfer between IHS or nucleus and POT. Synthetic loads can barely be called relevant, not so say proper, same goes for synthetic test surfaces...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by chew*

This thread is kinda funny and elmor i do respect your testing but OCZ doesn't make paste.........they just bottle an OEM's paste..........

So how much are you guys paying for a tiny ass tube? :shakes:


My pastes are straight from OEM's ;)

The tube on right just some FYI is small least for me and amount of cpu swaps i do daily....., only 1fl oz.........cost $6.99

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Valid point but those are usually hard to get a hold of and how to know which oem for which brand?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstru

Hey Jon, I appreciate the effort, but the point of TIM is to facilitate the thermal transfer between IHS or nucleus and POT. Synthetic loads can barely be called relevant, not so say proper, same goes for synthetic test surfaces...

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The way Henry has tested is probably the best but it's very hard to simulate the exact same conditions every time and a lot more work. I figured this way would be interesting as you get some real numbers out of it and can see how big the temperature delta might actually be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

I have a couple of points.

How did you secure your dummyloads to the hotplate? Thermal paste is needed between the resistors and the hotplate and you need sufficient clamping force to insure a nice thermal bond.

Which resistor were you measuring and where were you measuring from? If you were measuring from a resistor that wasn't directly underneath the CPU pot it may not be receiving adequate cooling as your thin aluminum hot plate won't be the best thermal transfer medium.

Some of the thicker pastes require a thermal cycling in order to thin them. With Ceramique I get consistently tissue paper thin mounts by heating the pot to 70-80C, rotating and pushing the pot against the CPU and then pulling the pot down to my running temperatures. My Ceramique tube must be a year old and requires an excessive amount of force to squeeze out of the gigantic tube I use but the thermal cycling does wonders for creating a thin/optimal mount.

I'll have to give this OCZ Freeze a shot. Anyone know which product OCZ was rebranding?

Note- I'm not snubbing Elmor's results but just pointing out several ways I can see to achieve more accurate results. Testing like this is important as it gets us thinking.

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Again, valid points with some buts.

How the heat resistors are mounted and where temperature is measured from doesn't make a difference as long as you're comparing to other pastes as conditions will be the same. It'll just alter the scale. For reference they are mounted with Zalmans ad-hesive TIM glue and temperature measured directly from the middle mounted resistor.

Thermal cycling might help some pastes for sure, but I really doubt it'd make a big difference at low temperatures. The main point of this test was to see how thermal conductivity changed at different temperatures (ie how suitible they are for low temps). I might try that next time I do some testing to see how much of a difference it really makes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ket

Not a bad little test, but I'd like to see the AS Ceramique results after its classic curing time (200hrs). I'd bet it would fair much better in your tests then.

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If you have 200 hours to spare you're more than welcome to test yourself :) Also same point as before, doubt it makes a huge difference at low temps.

Btw, I'm all ears for feedback on how to better compare different thermal pastes so please continue pointing out what can be improved. They way I figured it the way I did it was quick, simple and good enough to compare results (if differences would've been ~5-10 degrees that might've called for some retesting but they are quite alot more than that :)).

I get the feeling that using no mounting pressure (other than the container's weight) might have "punished" a thick paste like Ceramique. I don't think its fair to say that the mounting doesn't matter as long as its the same for all the pastes. Without mounting pressure, some pastes might have unrealistically high thermal resistance in a test like this when compared to the real world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M.Beier

I have to agree with Ket here.
Elmor, have you become a noob? Dont you usually run your LN2 for 200 hours straight? :down:

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:rofl: :clap:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gautam

I get the feeling that using no mounting pressure (other than the container's weight) might have "punished" a thick paste like Ceramique. I don't think its fair to say that the mounting doesn't matter as long as its the same for all the pastes. Without mounting pressure, some pastes might have unrealistically high thermal resistance in a test like this when compared to the real world.

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It's very possible. Can still use this dummy setup, though, just need to increase the pressure (I don't know the exact pressure of a proper F1EE mount, but perhaps squeezing the TIM during the pot mounting procedure [just push on top of the pot, you get what I mean] and then adding 1kg of weight to it would be enough).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zalbard

:rofl: :clap:

It's very possible. Can still use this dummy setup, though, just need to increase the pressure (I don't know the exact pressure of a proper F1EE mount, but perhaps squeezing the TIM during the pot mounting procedure [just push on top of the pot, you get what I mean] and then adding 1kg of weight to it would be enough).

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Best way I have found is to apply TIM, mount the pot. Turn on computer and bring it to the BIOS. Watch temps and when probe says ~60c then shut off the comp.

Give the pot a few twists and turns and tighten down the screws just a bit more.

Then go cold

It gets such a tight mounting that often I have to do the reverse to remove the pot when I am all done, even when the pot has warmed back to room temps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elmor

If you have 200 hours to spare you're more than welcome to test yourself :) Also same point as before, doubt it makes a huge difference at low temps..

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I might do that. Just to satisfy my own curiosity really. Maybe when I get my 1075T.

I always do a thermal cycle as well, before going cold. Not just so the thermal paste can spread out and make a nice uniform covering, but to make sure I have something resembling contact at all :p:

Lets be honest... we've all tried a session and realised that max MHz have bombed because pot contact wasn't right. Giving a thermal cycle lets us check... even if the contact is terrible, hopefully we have enough time to power off before something dies :p:


I never twist the pot once things have warmed up though, feels like im disturbing something thats looking after itself quite nicely...