2010 AMD Analyst Day Thread

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11-09-2010, 10:44 AM
generics_user

2010 AMD Analyst Day Thread

All AMD analyst day info gets here so people don't have to follow 3-4 threads :up:

Most important slides, sadly i missed the Desktop and notebook Roadmap someone else up these please and add the next ones :)

http://www.abload.de/img/serverroadmapopw5.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/bd18sn9.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/bd25h20.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/bcfcf3.jpg

Info:
Ontario/Zacate launch with products in Q1 2011 @ CES 2011
Bulldozer desktop pulled in before Server to Q2 2011
Processors: BD Refresh in 2012 (20core server), 3rd gen BD in 2013
Bobcat refresh in 2012 (2-4 Core, 28nm, improved GPU
Llano replaced by 4-core BD APU in 2012
11-09-2010, 10:52 AM
informal

Chekib just said that "yield curve for 32nm just bombed" describing they got to the point when yields got where they want them and APUs and CPUs are ready for mass production(as we can see in BD pull in and LLano H1 launch).
11-09-2010, 10:53 AM
generics_user

Process Roadmap:

http://www.abload.de/img/process2ftr.jpg
11-09-2010, 10:56 AM
ajaidev

40nm to 28nm TSMC

32nm to 20nm GF
11-09-2010, 11:00 AM
ajaidev

http://i51.tinypic.com/2ywh101.jpg
11-09-2010, 11:00 AM
Manicdan

so no 22nm, and right to 20nm?
11-09-2010, 11:03 AM
informal

They reduced the debt by 1.4Bn since last year... In this pace they should be debt free or near that in 2 or 3 years.
11-09-2010, 12:17 PM
ubuntu83

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaidev

40nm to 28nm TSMC

32nm to 20nm GF

28nm is High/k gate first so I think it's Glofo. TSMC's 28nm is gate last like intel (maybe they got some help from intel).
11-09-2010, 12:29 PM
god_43

cant watch the webcast until its over? how are you guys watching it?
11-09-2010, 12:33 PM
ubuntu83

Somebody who has the slides of Fusion APU's memory management please post them here.
11-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Periander6

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

They reduced the debt by 1.4Bn since last year... In this pace they should be debt free or near that in 2 or 3 years.

A 1.25 Billion dollar check from Intel was mostly responsible for that.
11-09-2010, 12:39 PM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Periander6

A 1.25 Billion dollar check from Intel was mostly responsible for that.

Indeed,but intel got away cheap and AMD provided themselves a way out of manufacturing business without losing the x86 license.I expect them to further lower the debt in 2011,not by the same extent but still lower it a bit compared to 2010.
11-09-2010, 12:54 PM
FlanK3r

btw, whats up with stream? :-( It was for 53 minute ago (in program is pause for 30 minutes, not for 50minutes+ :-) )
11-09-2010, 01:18 PM
informal

JF-AMD on his blog :D :

Quote:

Turbo CORE – We have disclosed that we would include AMD Turbo CORE technology in the past, so this should not be a surprise to anyone. But what is news is the uplift – up to 500MHz with all cores fully utilized. Today’s implementations of boost technology can push up the clock speed of a couple of cores when the others are idle, but with our new version of Turbo CORE you’ll see full core boost, meaning an extra 500MHz across all 16 threads for most workloads.

New Turbo Core rocks :) . Imagine the TDP headroom on client Zambezi parts if 16 core server part has 500Mhz headroom. 1 Ghz turbo core on 8 BD cores,anyone? :D

The rest is on the link.

Few more important tid bits:

Quote:

Product Schedules – This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of “Bulldozer” (code named “Zambezi”) in Q2 2011. The server products (“Interlagos” and “Valencia”) will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.

Die size – As a matter of fact, we are able to put 8 total cores in a piece of silicon that is smaller than our current 6-core dies.

L2 and L3 cache – Each module will have a massive 2MB L2 cache for the 2 integer cores to share and you’ll see an 8MB L3 cache shared per die (16MB on the 16-core “Interlagos” processor.)
11-09-2010, 01:20 PM
FlanK3r

whau, thats mean, if AMD will need and we as clients will need, launch maybe 5 moduls desktop (pleeeeease :-D)
11-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Oliverda

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

JF-AMD on his blog :D :

New Turbo Core rocks :) . Imagine the TDP headroom on client Zambezi parts if 16 core server part has 500Mhz headroom. 1 Ghz turbo core on 8 BD cores,anyone? :D

The rest is on the link.

Few more important tid bits:

in slides:
11-09-2010, 01:44 PM
informal

Thanks Oliverda :),can you share a link for that particular presentation ?
11-09-2010, 01:54 PM
Oliverda

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Thanks Oliverda :),can you share a link for that particular presentation ?

Sure.

Server Platforms

Client Platforms
11-09-2010, 02:01 PM
Katzenschleuder

I think that the overall outlook is very promising.

However I am deeply concerned that so little has been said about investments into software R&D! That is the key for the success of the APU concept, so how can they afford to not say something specific at all?
11-09-2010, 02:08 PM
superrugal

bulldozer has 4 pipeline while magny cours has 3

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1289338466
11-09-2010, 02:15 PM
safan80

I'm sick of Turbo from both Intel and AMD. I would rather have the higher clocked chip to begin with. On another note BD not until Q3 of 2011 that is good to know.
11-09-2010, 02:18 PM
ubuntu83

Quote:

Originally Posted by safan80

I'm sick of Turbo from both Intel and AMD. I would rather have the higher clocked chip to begin with. On another note SERVER BD not until Q3 of 2011 that is good to know.

fixed. Client is Q2.
11-09-2010, 02:21 PM
generics_user

Quote:

Originally Posted by safan80

I'm sick of Turbo from both Intel and AMD. I would rather have the higher clocked chip to begin with. On another note BD not until Q3 of 2011 that is good to know.

desktop is Q2, see second slide in post #1 :)

so much to those "no bd until 2012" posts from a certain banned forum member...
11-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Oliverda

Quote:

Originally Posted by safan80

I'm sick of Turbo from both Intel and AMD. I would rather have the higher clocked chip to begin with. On another note BD not until Q3 of 2011 that is good to know.

Desktop BD Q2, Server BD Q3
11-09-2010, 02:25 PM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by generics_user

desktop is Q2, see second slide in post #1 :)

so much to those "no bd until 2012" posts from a certain banned forum member...

Yeah,he was just "slightly" off,by a half year+ :p:
11-09-2010, 02:45 PM
Pantsu

Q2 Bulldozer sounds great after the disappointing Llano delay.
11-09-2010, 02:51 PM
haylui

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantsu

Q2 Bulldozer sounds great after the disappointing Llano delay.

I believe dragging Zambezi to Q2 2011 is a good move and an aggressive one since if they stick to original plan, it would be too late for people who are interested in getting new rig jump ship to SB instead waiting for BD.
After all, Llano wouldn't have the strength in CPU side to compete with SB anytime but overall user experience for ultra thin laptop and nettop/netbook.
11-09-2010, 03:05 PM
JF-AMD

Quote:

Originally Posted by safan80

I'm sick of Turbo from both Intel and AMD. I would rather have the higher clocked chip to begin with.

This won't happen. You have to build your processors to clock to the worst case scenario and still stay under TDP.

When you buy a car you pay for brakes that can stop the car at 120MPH, even though you rarely drive over 60. You could probably cut down a lot of cost on the car if you only had to design to what people actually drive. But as long as the car can do 120MPH, you have to build brakes that will stop it. And those cost more.

If we did what you were asking for, we could build, for instance, a 4GHz processor that only goes up to 3.5GHz in some workloads. Worst of all, you might not know until you actually run your workload on it. People want absolutes and the only way to deliver that is by having a high characterization. Turbo CORE lets you unlock the rest of the potential.
11-09-2010, 03:11 PM
richierich

man awesome news, BD desktop platform coming in Q2 '11.
11-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Manicdan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

This won't happen. You have to build your processors to clock to the worst case scenario and still stay under TDP.

the GPUs didnt work that way, which is why we have much more advanced throttling for things like furmark. its a limited scenario so they thought no real case would push it that much. but in truth maybe someone designs a program which is able to push it that hard. its performance will be incredible, which might mean no one will care if it throttles a little.

i think selling things at a higher clock and then add in throttling will help sell more (client side atleast would like a higher number without ever looking at benchmarks)
11-09-2010, 04:44 PM
trueblue

Chipsets, chipsets, what about the chipsets

So when are AM3+ socket motherboards going to make an appearance?
11-09-2010, 04:53 PM
kuroikenshi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

When you buy a car you pay for brakes that can stop the car at 120MPH, even though you rarely drive over 60. You could probably cut down a lot of cost on the car if you only had to design to what people actually drive. But as long as the car can do 120MPH, you have to build brakes that will stop it. And those cost more.

I prefer to use the comparison of dropping in a turbo in a car :D.

you can drive normal around the streets, but you know in the highway you can drop the pedal and overtake other cars (mainly blue cars with intel stickers all over them)
;)
11-09-2010, 06:00 PM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

They reduced the debt by 1.4Bn since last year... In this pace they should be debt free or near that in 2 or 3 years.

and then big budget development we might hope :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuroikenshi

I prefer to use the comparison of dropping in a turbo in a car :D.

you can drive normal around the streets, but you know in the highway you can drop the pedal and overtake other cars (mainly blue cars with intel stickers all over them)
;)

LOLL nice one
11-10-2010, 01:24 AM
Lightman

Great news JF:)

Now the exciting question is - if all core load can still allow 500MHz turbo how much of a jump we will get in poorly threaded software on one or two core loads? :shocked:
11-10-2010, 02:01 AM
Oliverda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightman

Great news JF:)

Now the exciting question is - if all core load can still allow 500MHz turbo how much of a jump we will get in poorly threaded software on one or two core loads? :shocked:

+1000MHz maybe?:D

I think that this "all cores can get +500MHz" thing confirms again that the BD will be a high frequency design arch.
11-10-2010, 02:26 AM
FlanK3r

maybe +700 MHz for single and dual threads?
11-10-2010, 03:53 AM
JF-AMD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightman

Great news JF:)

Now the exciting question is - if all core load can still allow 500MHz turbo how much of a jump we will get in poorly threaded software on one or two core loads? :shocked:

It would be higher.

There are more details about Turbo CORE that we are not revealing, when we launch you will see additional details that could make it even more exciting.
11-10-2010, 03:56 AM
gallag

AMD, The promising slide company. Show some numbers ffs. If nice optimistic slides made a profit AMD would be buying back its fabs. Dont get me wrong, I have high hopes for bulldozer and think that AMD has a new energy about them and BD has every chance of being a bad-ass but I guess I am just pissed that every thread about AMD I click it is nothing but fing slides. SHOW ME THE MONEY.
11-10-2010, 04:08 AM
railer

Hay pick your poison bud. Ether slides or announcements:p:
11-10-2010, 04:21 AM
andos

Sooo Fusion available today?

http://www.rumorpedia.net/wp-content...morpedia32.jpg
http://www.rumorpedia.net/wp-content...morpedia34.jpg
11-10-2010, 04:34 AM
kuroikenshi

well... I suppose this does not only cover fusion but also 6900 series being right on schedule, unlike being said
11-10-2010, 04:41 AM
Oliverda

Quote:

Originally Posted by andos

Sooo Fusion available today?

"We are proud: this morning, at 4 a.m. Central Time, our first AMD Fusion customer shipments left our Singapore facility, bound for customers worldwide! This first Fusion shipment, which included our APUs codenamed “Ontario” and “Zacate,” marks the introduction of a new era for AMD, our customers, the industry, and most importantly, fo...r consumers around the world."
11-10-2010, 04:54 AM
FlanK3r

Quote:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

It would be higher.

There are more details about Turbo CORE that we are not revealing, when we launch you will see additional details that could make it even more exciting.

whau, perfect:clap::up:
11-10-2010, 05:50 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

AMD, The promising slide company. Show some numbers ffs. If nice optimistic slides made a profit AMD would be buying back its fabs. Dont get me wrong, I have high hopes for bulldozer and think that AMD has a new energy about them and BD has every chance of being a bad-ass but I guess I am just pissed that every thread about AMD I click it is nothing but fing slides. SHOW ME THE MONEY.

How about Fusion(Bobcat based) is shipping to customers,now.How about 1 year from tape out to product launch in BD case? How about 250 days from tape out to mass production in Ontario's case? They can't show you Bulldozer benchmarks,if that's what you are looking for.You got Zacate numbers just slightly prior to the launch,so don't expect different with Bulldozer benchmarks.
11-10-2010, 07:34 AM
Nintendork

Is this real?

http://www.hwupgrade.it/immagini/101110_amdapple.jpg

http://www.hwupgrade.it/immagini/101110_amdapple2.jpg

http://www.hwupgrade.it/news/apple/a...ple_34361.html
11-10-2010, 07:45 AM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nintendork

Is this real?

They do sell GPUs and or CPUs to those companies, so sure why not.
11-10-2010, 07:50 AM
Kej

@Nintendork

This is slides from Financial Analyst Day, so yes, they are real.

You can find PDF's of the presentations here.

I think these slides were from the Client Platforms presentation.

Edit: Scrap that, they are from Mr Ghilardi's presentation, as below post by "Herr Larsson".
11-10-2010, 07:53 AM
marten_larsson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kej

@Nintendork

This is slides from Financial Analyst Day, so yes, they are real.

You can find PDF's of the presentations here.

I think these slides were from the Client Platforms presentation.

Nope, they're from Emilio Ghilardi's presentation (Senior Vice President and Chief Sales Officer).

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1
11-10-2010, 07:56 AM
Kej

Quote:

Originally Posted by marten_larsson

Nope, they're from Emilio Ghilardi's presentation (Senior Vice President and Chief Sales Officer).

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1

Haha, thanks! :)

Not surprised to be corrected, wasn't really that sure about it. :p:
11-10-2010, 05:50 PM
freeloader

Quote:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

This won't happen. You have to build your processors to clock to the worst case scenario and still stay under TDP.

When you buy a car you pay for brakes that can stop the car at 120MPH, even though you rarely drive over 60. You could probably cut down a lot of cost on the car if you only had to design to what people actually drive. But as long as the car can do 120MPH, you have to build brakes that will stop it. And those cost more.

If we did what you were asking for, we could build, for instance, a 4GHz processor that only goes up to 3.5GHz in some workloads. Worst of all, you might not know until you actually run your workload on it. People want absolutes and the only way to deliver that is by having a high characterization. Turbo CORE lets you unlock the rest of the potential.

I thought every chip you built was binned for speed/voltage?
11-10-2010, 06:32 PM
JF-AMD

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeloader

I thought every chip you built was binned for speed/voltage?

They are.

This has nothing to do with binning and has everything to do with the TDP limits for workloads.
11-10-2010, 08:55 PM
570091D

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

How about Fusion(Bobcat based) is shipping to customers,now.How about 1 year from tape out to product launch in BD case? How about 250 days from tape out to mass production in Ontario's case? They can't show you Bulldozer benchmarks,if that's what you are looking for.You got Zacate numbers just slightly prior to the launch,so don't expect different with Bulldozer benchmarks.

well... if you consider that we've been waiting for bulldozer for 4 years, i can understand his frustration. in that time the cpu market has become stagnant, i'm not blaming amd for that, but they have been teasing the world with BD for a long time now.

though tbh, i haven't really learned anything new from the analyst day... can't wait for the leaks :D
11-11-2010, 03:00 AM
gallag

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

How about Fusion(Bobcat based) is shipping to customers,now.How about 1 year from tape out to product launch in BD case? How about 250 days from tape out to mass production in Ontario's case? They can't show you Bulldozer benchmarks,if that's what you are looking for.You got Zacate numbers just slightly prior to the launch,so don't expect different with Bulldozer benchmarks.

Thats my point, Every single thing you just said requires a waiting time to see if it actually pans out, You just quoted the promising slides. I just want some cold hard facts. Now. I know I am not going to get this though so I guess I am just ranting.

I remember AMD giving us teasers and %ipc increace figures well before the K10 launch (ended up not being very true though) so what is the actual reason for not teasing us now? Its not like any of the companys have time to change anything, Is it? Would SB and BD not be set in stone now?
11-11-2010, 03:25 AM
informal

Bobcat started shipping to customers yesterday(literary).
They are not teasing us since they know better now. You didn't get ANY teasing with 4xxx,5xxx nor 6xxx series cards from AMD and they all performed stellar. This is the new AMD with a new product strategy and as you will see,new good products for each market segment. Past Barcelona they executed brilliant(Deneb,Istanbul,MC,Lisbon all launched either on time or were pulled in a bit).
11-11-2010, 03:43 AM
Dresdenboy

@Turbo good/not good discussion:
I just don't want to imagine the class action suits following selling of 4GHz CPUs which sometimes only achieves 3.5GHz, for some users maybe even rather often (video encoding, HPC). How about the termal throttling stories in the past?
11-11-2010, 04:00 AM
ajaidev

As much as i love my job i did raise the point about Turbo and the default speed to my senior in charge and was promptly told to get the hell out of the office.

My problem is the rating done on turbo enabled cpu's, in internal testing most of the Intel new gen cpu's never ever run of default rated speeds they either run over it via Turbo or run under it via clock control. The rated speed of a cpu is not used in most times but its the fall back speed say if some factors have forced the cpu to use the stock speed otherwise it pretty much runs on turbo.

The rating of these CPU's should change to the clock that all core run at for a period of time and for dual core situations. I was told that since i was not in the section responsible for all this my opinion does not count at all :(
11-11-2010, 08:33 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by generics_user

Process Roadmap:

http://www.abload.de/img/process2ftr.jpg

wow, just look at how much things are slowing down in the next years...

i hope for them intel will slow down as well, otherwise intel can skip several ticks and do tocks only, just shrink and tweak and they will stay competitive with the same design for half a decade :D
11-11-2010, 08:36 AM
FlanK3r

Im happy for so agressive turbo, because in reviews have 3.2 GHz CPU and dont care if one CPU has turbo and second not. Graphs in review are clear. I could nervous with i 750 vs x4 955, said people, its not fair, i5 750 is not 2.66 Ghz, but min. 2.8 Gh quad. But specification are 2.66GHz+turbo (in 4 threads 1-2 multipliers up, in dual and singl threads more). So, great Turbo is good point ! Of course, in praxis is ideal for still good TDP and faster processing.
11-11-2010, 09:10 AM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

I remember AMD giving us teasers and %ipc increace figures well before the K10 launch (ended up not being very true though) so what is the actual reason for not teasing us now?

I think you just answered your own question there now didn't you? You people complain when they give early information then rant when they don't.
11-11-2010, 09:59 AM
Tomasis

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

I think you just answered your own question there now didn't you? You people complain when they give early information then rant when they don't.

haha good one,.. ;)
11-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Dresdenboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

i hope for them intel will slow down as well, otherwise intel can skip several ticks and do tocks only, just shrink and tweak and they will stay competitive with the same design for half a decade :D

Just as a funny thought: what if AMD's doing it just the other way round, doing ticks only ;)
11-11-2010, 10:59 PM
sergiojr

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

wow, just look at how much things are slowing down in the next years...

I think you got it wrong. The graph shows only APUs on new techprocess. If an APU is developed on old techprocess (e.g. second 28nm APU) it is not shown on the graph.

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