Aquatuning/Phobya Fail

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/modding...-competition/1

Anyone else seen this? My main issue with this - they never asked to use my content (picture of my mod) in that video. That is breaking copyright laws right there.

The other issue - does anyone else see what Aquatuning are doing here? They are just getting someone to do hours of R&D for them for free and at the end of it they will have a case design that they can then mass produce and sell without having to pay any royalties to the original creator of the design.

Pretty dam sketch to me...

Well to be fair, they are building the case for the winner and giving them watercooling gear, so it isn't for "free". But considering what you should be getting for a design it is chump change.

I also like how they make it seem like they are doing so much for bit-tech and the watercooling community with their giveaways and sponsorships. That is all part of the company's advertising budget and at least here in the states it is a write-off, so it is pretty much costs them nothing at the end of the year. I'm not certain if that is the same for Germany though.

yeah thats was my comment on it in another thread,
doing phobyas job for them,
all the phobya gear i have seen makes thermaltake look good!

i would stay well clear of this debacle in the making..

I'd contact them direct re the copyright

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Originally Posted by oliverw92

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/modding...-competition/1

Anyone else seen this? My main issue with this - they never asked to use my content (picture of my mod) in that video. That is breaking copyright laws right there.

The other issue - does anyone else see what Aquatuning are doing here? They are just getting someone to do hours of R&D for them for free and at the end of it they will have a case design that they can then mass produce and sell without having to pay any royalties to the original creator of the design.

Pretty dam sketch to me...

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Aquatuning is here on this forum.

We've already discussed this contest.

There are prizes, while not large, you finally get a design you may have submitted to several manufacturers mass produced, and people get to buy your work.

copyright laws:
Varies from country to country, and yes they should have asked you but it was already on the internet for everyone for fair use anyway. They never claimed it was their own, and you never exactly claimed copyright for that work. You named that work, but you didn't claim that it was yours and yours only. You put pictures out that everyone could see. Since it was only part of your work(?) and it was used as an example for another event it would probably fall under terms of fair use.

^ true
but if you mention it nicely they MIGHT compensate you, (some free kit perhaps)

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Originally Posted by Creekin

^ true
but if you mention it nicely they MIGHT compensate you, (some free kit perhaps)

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They do compensate you. They build the case for you and load it with watercooling gear. The estimated value is around 1000 pounds.

I'm pretty certain most designers get more than that though.

BeepBeep, you do have a point on the copyright issue. You do have to apply for a copyright, so it isn't against the law, just poor form to use someone else's work without their permission.

i meant compensate him for using his work without asking

Here in the UK, those images are my intellectual property and I have copyright over them by default. I have the original 3D files.

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Originally Posted by Creekin

i meant compensate him for using his work without asking

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O, haha. I misread that. So sorry. :)

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Originally Posted by oliverw92

Here in the UK, those images are my intellectual property and I have copyright over them by default. I have the original 3D files.

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Then you should contact them. We cant really help with that :)

Hi Guys,

Let me step in to clear this one up for you before the trolls get let out again :p:

Ok so the competition as it has been stated many times we are not trying to get something designed for free, we already have a range of cases on the way that have been designed in house.

The idea of the comp is to finally give the community a say so the community designs it, the community votes for it and we build it now of course we will make a profit on the units sold by this is to cover setup, production, staffing.

If you rather we can let you design the case and pay for all the tooling etc - bet you not a fan of that idea.

So the winner gets a case, they get to name the case and they get watercooling in the case. Based on the small qtys that will be made because of the very niche designs the prizes given will far out way any royalties of sales.

We dont have to do this for you but as people are constantly crying out for something like this to happen we thought we would give it a go.

So if you want to have a go like many others have and are enjoying please enter. If you DO NOT agree with the comp JUST DONT ENTER as after all you would not want to fuel the mythical watercooling devils that you have heard all those naughty stories about of the everso factual place called the interwebs :rolleyes:

As for Oliver as you have had it explained to you the video was created by Bit-tech so it is nothing to do with Aquatuninging or Bit-tech and as you also know you gave Bit-tech free reign with your work by posting on the forum. You have been contacted by Bit-tech take it up with them.

For any more serious questions about the contests I will be here to help :cool:

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Originally Posted by Aquatuning

So if you want to have a go like many others have and are enjoying please enter. If you DO NOT agree with the comp JUST DONT ENTER as after all you would not want to fuel the mythical watercooling devils that you have heard all those naughty stories about of the everso factual place called the interwebs :rolleyes:

As for Oliver as you have had it explained to you the video was created by Bit-tech so it is nothing to do with Aquatuninging or Bit-tech and as you also know you gave Bit-tech free reign with your work by posting on the forum. You have been contacted by Bit-tech take it up with them.

For any more serious questions about the contests I will be here to help :cool:

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thanks for stepping in to clear up this (and for offending people with other views right in the first sentence ;) ).

you write "If you DO NOT agree with the comp JUST DONT ENTER". hmm, looks like oliverw92 doesn´t want to enter. anyhow his case idea was used in a promotion video for the contest.

how can you say, that this video does not have anything to do with AT? as far as i can read it is a contest started by bit.tech and AT and this is the promotion video for it. even if you don´t have produced this video you are the sponsor for this whole thing. shouldn´t it be in your interest that there are no disagreements in this video? otherwise it might look like it´s ok for you to use other peoples work.

just for my personal interest, what mythical watercooling devils do you mean?

@ Aquatuning - Who let you guy's out of the dog house? :mad: Aquatuning is not exactly an honest place of business for all their crap they have caused. Don't be giving these creeps your designs. It is all they want and your not going to get crap. As already pointed out they took another persons build picture in their presentation without asking. You guys can do what you want but I am not for sale to these creeps and I am deeply opposed to them even being here as it is offensive to all the manufacturers we support. Related material found here... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=226794

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Originally Posted by Tremeloes

thanks for stepping in to clear up this (and for offending people with other views right in the first sentence ;) ).

you write "If you DO NOT agree with the comp JUST DONT ENTER". hmm, looks like oliverw92 doesn´t want to enter. anyhow his case idea was used in a promotion video for the contest.

how can you say, that this video does not have anything to do with AT? as far as i can read it is a contest started by bit.tech and AT and this is the promotion video for it. even if you don´t have produced this video you are the sponsor for this whole thing. shouldn´t it be in your interest that there are no disagreements in this video? otherwise it might look like it´s ok for you to use other peoples work.

just for my personal interest, what mythical watercooling devils do you mean?

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Correct this why we have been in disscussion with Bit-tech and the video is being swapped for one that does not include the case.

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

@ Aquatuning - Who let you guy's out of the dog house? :mad: Aquatuning is not exactly an honest place of business for all their crap they have caused. Don't be giving these creeps your designs. It is all they want and your not going to get crap. As already pointed out they took another persons build picture in their presentation without asking. You guys can do what you want but I am not for sale to these creeps and I am deeply opposed to them even being here as it is offensive to all the manufacturers we support. Related material found here... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=226794

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Thanks for that but hes already posted a link to that thread ;)

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Originally Posted by Aquatuning

Thanks for that but hes already posted a link to that thread ;)

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Your welcome...Here let me post it again as you could use some advertising....http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=226794

I think you have your copyright information wrong. Posting my worklog on a forum does NOT give a website the right to use my images and post them over the internet without my permission.

And yes it IS your problem. If your company had any morals you would care that a prominent modder in the community is not happy about something and you would do the best that you can to fix it, rather than just offload the blame to someone else.

I want my photo removed from that video by tomorrow or I will take further action.

Thank you,

Any advertising is good advertising as they say :up:

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Originally Posted by oliverw92

I think you have your copyright information wrong. Posting my worklog on a forum does NOT give a website the right to use my images and post them over the internet without my permission.

And yes it IS your problem. If your company had any morals you would care that a prominent modder in the community is not happy about something and you would do the best that you can to fix it, rather than just offload the blame to someone else.

I want my photo removed from that video by tomorrow or I will take further action.

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As you are more then aware Bit-tech are working on that now and in some places like our youtube channel the video has already been removed.

Actually no, nobody has told me anything. Maybe if you actually inform me that something is being done about it next time, rather than just assume people are psychic...

talk about blowing things out of proportion guys.

This inst the only time this has been done by many different manufactures. Crap if i was in there video i would be sitting here pretty dammed pleased with my self that a company has even though my Mod wor worth it.

You know modding / water cooling is a very small proportion of the market and its only going to get smaller when all you ever see is people ranting and raving on about some thing silly. Feels like some times your just a pack of dog's fighting for the last scrap of meat.

Me i would love some one to build me a case i designed and then see it go into full production. Crap if i got to name it as well and it did well you never know were it may lead you. !!!

Dont diss for your picture being in the video feel dammed proud about it. i know i would.

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Originally Posted by oliverw92

Actually no, nobody has told me anything. Maybe if you actually inform me that something is being done about it next time, rather than just assume people are psychic...

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As i have understood it Antony @ Bit-tech has been in direct contact with you.

If not im sorry, but for your information your case has now been removed new video up HERE

This has now been resolved please close.

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Originally Posted by mlwood37

talk about blowing things out of proportion guys.

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Blowing it out of proportion?!? Seriously I can understand your reason to defend them as you have a stake to sell your gear but don't smear yourself with the likes of these people so early in your game. Aquatuning are crooks plain and simple. They bought Trademarks from the manufacturers here so they can be the only sellers as well as to sell their own crap there. The rest of the retailers got letters that they cannot sell Thermochill, Swiftech, DangerDen etc because Aquatuning holds the rights. They stole plain and simple and they are not apologetic about it. They are scum and for some reason are here to do business. Now considering they are in the WC section into case design it would imply they are looking for a better image to show they rock in the enthusiast crowd and enforce sales of their crappy blocks. They will of course say business is business and what they have done was legal but you decide with your wallet. Still would be flattered having them use your design? I would be dead ashamed and angry!

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

Blowing it out of proportion?!? Seriously I can understand your reason to defend them as you have a stake to sell your gear but don't smear yourself with the likes of these people so early in your game. Aquatuning are crooks plain and simple. They bought Trademarks from the manufacturers here so they can be the only sellers as well as to sell their own crap there. The rest of the retailers got letters that they cannot sell Thermochill, Swiftech, DangerDen etc because Aquatuning holds the rights. They stole plain and simple and they are not apologetic about it. They are scum and for some reason are here to do business. Now considering they are in the WC section into case design it would imply they are looking for a better image to show they rock in the enthusiast crowd and enforce sales of their crappy blocks. They will of course say business is business and what they have done was legal but you decide with your wallet. Still would be flattered having them use your design? I would be dead ashamed and angry!

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im being pretty honest here. If they sold my stuff or not. What im saying is my self i would feel pretty proud to have my pictures used in videos. When i built c-macc's 1 and 2 they were featured on TV in the USA, they were featured on engadget (front page) they never asked for my permission they all so never asked me if it was oky.

It made me feel proud as puch.

We all need to band together in this industry , hobby , profession "to some" and work together not smear , slime and crate a uproar.

I have no side to take. Yes i sell a product but i wont side with any over any products or shops what so ever. Im just giving you "my" objective view.

Honesty none of this farce makes Xtreme systems look good at all. Oh and the original owner of Thermochill is a very good mate of mine whom i talk to all the time so i do know what happened in the past but to me that's were it belongs. (we all make mistakes) and i wont be drawn into a argument that has nothing to do with me neither sorry.

(edit)You don't get lower then Aquatuning. It is people like them that eliminate options and shrink a market to their liking so they can control sales and pricing. It is exactly what they are doing. I am not going to rant any further. I said my piece to Dave (Movieman) and soon we shall see if they are even allowed to stay here at all. If they are I will move on to another forum plain and simple. I made my stand.

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Originally Posted by mlwood37

im being pretty honest here. If they sold my stuff or not. What im saying is my self i would feel pretty proud to have my pictures used in videos. When i built c-macc's 1 and 2 they were featured on TV in the USA, they were featured on engadget (front page) they never asked for my permission they all so never asked me if it was oky.

It made me feel proud as puch.

We all need to band together in this industry , hobby , profession "to some" and work together not smear , slime and crate a uproar. Leave that to the childish antic's of RRR.

I have no side to take. Yes i sell a product but i wont side with any over any products or shops what so ever. Im just giving you "my" objective view.

Honesty none of this farce makes Xtreme systems look good at all. Oh and the original owner of Thermochill is a very good mate of mine whom i talk to all the time so i do know what happened in the past but to me that's were it belongs. (we all make mistakes) and i wont be drawn into a argument that has nothing to do with me neither sorry.

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I take exception to that comment.
How in any way does this discussion effect XS except that it is deemed worthy by some of the members here to be discussed?
I really don't like it when someone tries to offload a subject as being a negative to the site itself to try and influence decisions.
XtremeSystems IS the members. They make it what it is and within reasonable limits have the right to post their feelings about companies both positive and negative.

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Originally Posted by Aquatuning

As i have understood it Antony @ Bit-tech has been in direct contact with you.

If not im sorry, but for your information your case has now been removed new video up HERE

This has now been resolved please close.

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Thankyou for removing my work, I appreciate it.




Mayhem, I do not mind my images being used in videos under normal circumstances, however if i do not agree with the situation they are being used in I DO mind. Imagine if your images of your dye were being used to promote someone elses dye, for example. I doubt you would let that happen.

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Originally Posted by oliverw92

Thankyou for removing my work, I appreciate it.




Mayhem, I do not mind my images being used in videos under normal circumstances, however if i do not agree with the situation they are being used in I DO mind. Imagine if your images of your dye were being used to promote someone elses dye, for example. I doubt you would let that happen.

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didnt think of it that way. but your correct. I dont mean to offend any one btw just trying to be objective .

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Originally Posted by Aquatuning

Hi Guys,

Let me step in to clear this one up for you before the trolls get let out again :p:

Ok so the competition as it has been stated many times we are not trying to get something designed for free, we already have a range of cases on the way that have been designed in house.

The idea of the comp is to finally give the community a say so the community designs it, the community votes for it and we build it now of course we will make a profit on the units sold by this is to cover setup, production, staffing.

If you rather we can let you design the case and pay for all the tooling etc - bet you not a fan of that idea.

So the winner gets a case, they get to name the case and they get watercooling in the case. Based on the small qtys that will be made because of the very niche designs the prizes given will far out way any royalties of sales.

We dont have to do this for you but as people are constantly crying out for something like this to happen we thought we would give it a go.

So if you want to have a go like many others have and are enjoying please enter. If you DO NOT agree with the comp JUST DONT ENTER as after all you would not want to fuel the mythical watercooling devils that you have heard all those naughty stories about of the everso factual place called the interwebs :rolleyes:

As for Oliver as you have had it explained to you the video was created by Bit-tech so it is nothing to do with Aquatuninging or Bit-tech and as you also know you gave Bit-tech free reign with your work by posting on the forum. You have been contacted by Bit-tech take it up with them.

For any more serious questions about the contests I will be here to help :cool:

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Based on your company's trademark smash and grab shenanigans, it's not surprising people are wary that you're trying to use the modding community to design you a case. Cases designed to hold watercooling internally may be niche, but companies such as corsair, mountain mods and danger den are no doubt making profit on their water-cooling cases, as I'm sure you will.

Did Corsair design the 800 case thinking the profits they made from it would be less than the cost of making a case and putting some watercooling in it? Really?! Out of interest, does your new range of cases that you mention include cases that also fit the water-cooling design brief you've set out for this competition?

Call me cynical, but the fact you've stipulated a design brief and insisted "the case must be easy to produce" doesn't sound like you're trying to help a modders design come to be, it sounds like you are looking for a cheap means of getting a design to mass produce.

And as for saying:

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If you rather we can let you design the case and pay for all the tooling etc - bet you not a fan of that idea.

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....The competition is in the modding section of bit-tech. I'm sure most people reading that section of the forum are actually pretty big fans of that idea.:rofl:

It doesn't sound very much like you're doing this out of the kindness of your hearts to help the modding community when you then also tell Oliver that bit-tech has the rights to any images he's posted there, and so you're free to use them. No apology, no "sorry, someone should have asked you, can we use your images?"? Not great PR...

Under UK law as I understand it, the copyright images automatically reside with the creator of the featured piece, and whoever took the photos, if taking the photos itself involves some creative/artistic/technical merit. Bit-tech doesn't have a terms and conditions page stipulating that they own the copyright to any content posted as certain sites like facebook do.

So no, you (and Bit-tech, your hosting partner in this competition) don't have the right to use his images as far as I can see.

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

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I agree but sometimes very difficult to ignore these things especially if your on staff.

@Movieman. Don't you think that stuff should be kept to pm's?

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

@Movieman. Don't you think that stuff should be kept to pm's?

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It's a public thread.Sort of tough for me to respond just by PM..

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

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I do agree that this drama sucks, but it does have something to do with the hobby and if a company is doing something wrong, wouldn't you like to know about it so you can make a personal decision on if you should support the company or not?

Just think about it for a Minute, Aqua Tuning want you to design them a case instead of paying designing to do they job to save money, More money they save the more they make.

"Hey Nathanael , I have a great idea: As you know, most people in our market are really easy to fool (*giggle*) as you know from many of our 'projects' in the past ... I have a new idea which is perfect: You know that we have no creative people in our company and it would be too expensive to hire a designer, but we need a computer-case for our Fobia-china-lineup! Let's go there and give them a couple of bucks and let THEM make us the case."

"Hey Andreas, I doubt that people will do it for cheap."

"Hey Nathanael, believe me, there are so many blind and stupid people out there, we will get massive numbers of different ideas ... muahaha ... for free!"

"Ah - now I got it Andreas, so we will not only get one design ... we will get MANY. Superb idea, because these fools don't even understand that every design is valuable for us."

"Yeah Nathanael, and do you know what's the best? We offer the winner a free case ... which costs us 0.00€, because it's a side-product of the prototyping process from the manufacture anyway! ... And the second and third place will get the chance to buy from us for 100 and 200 bucks."

"Muahaha Andreas, you're so clever, because we only have cost of 10% of these sums for our products".

"Yes Nathanael - we have so many dumb people out there, let's get all they have: Their money, their creativity and everything they have not registered!"

dunno guys... ok let's address the issue for what it is and try to keep an open mind.

many companies have had consumer design contests and this is a very interesting, if not great marketing tool... and so as for this contest, call it as you see it... an interesting marketing tool by AT to involve their consumers participation and perhaps even increase brand recognition + loyalty... kata bag manufacturers have also done this and i'm sure there are others as well.

so as for the contest, fine... i don't think it's actually a means of a company trying to get the design work for free...
correct me if i'm wrong but it does seem that this is a community based competition...

if any company's sole objective is to get cheap designs, heck, mick's detailed log is enough for anyone to knock it off and produce it cheaper and not only him but there are many others who've dabbled into custom design and building of cases that are posted in these "public" forums... and copyright protection are just that, words... they carry very little weight in actual and legal protection... unless someone can afford a heavy legal retainer for representation.

now AT does not get off that easily too...
seems your reputation has been tainted by the XS community and perhaps you should address this issue before venturing off into other projects... because as far as i see it, any and all marketing attempts will be tainted by your actions that has caused many wc'ing members to be upset.

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

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Not usually the dramatic type and I am pretty good at keeping a level head but these guys directly affected our community. They are the only European retailers who can sell all the stuff they Tradmarked cornering the market and control on pricing. Let's say if your Koolance and you wish to channel your products into the European market. Well you will have Aquatuning to contend with as they own your Trademark in Europe. Nobody can sell your stuff without them suing you for Trademark infringement. So that market is screwed but open now for Aquatuning's blocks, rads etc because they have effectively blocked you out, are able to sell their stuff way cheaper making them look like the obvious choice in Europe. So now this cuts into R&D, contests, sponsorships etc which directly affects us here.

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Originally Posted by kinghong1970

dunno guys... ok let's address the issue for what it is and try to keep an open mind.

many companies have had consumer design contests and this is a very interesting, if not great marketing tool... and so as for this contest, call it as you see it... an interesting marketing tool by AT to involve their consumers participation and perhaps even increase brand recognition + loyalty... kata bag manufacturers have also done this and i'm sure there are others as well.

so as for the contest, fine... i don't think it's actually a means of a company trying to get the design work for free...
correct me if i'm wrong but it does seem that this is a community based competition...

if any company's sole objective is to get cheap designs, heck, mick's detailed log is enough for anyone to knock it off and produce it cheaper and not only him but there are many others who've dabbled into custom design and building of cases that are posted in these "public" forums... and copyright protection are just that, words... they carry very little weight in actual and legal protection... unless someone can afford a heavy legal retainer for representation.

now AT does not get off that easily too...
seems your reputation has been tainted by the XS community and perhaps you should address this issue before venturing off into other projects... because as far as i see it, any and all marketing attempts will be tainted by your actions that has caused many wc'ing members to be upset.

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This cuts deeper then them trying to steal designs which as you pointed out they could have simply done awhile ago from the available info in the public thread but I am sure the one reason why they have not is because of a threat if someone wanted to sue them. But if they can them freely then it's a different story. It's fair game! Just letting people know what type of people are behind this competition which I think should not be allowed here at all.

100% agree to the contents of your posting Sadasius. Logical and clear.

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

Not usually the dramatic type and I am pretty good at keeping a level head but these guys directly affected our community. They are the only European retailers who can sell all the stuff they Tradmarked cornering the market and control on pricing. Let's say if your Koolance and you wish to channel your products into the European market. Well you will have Aquatuning to contend with as they own your Trademark in Europe. Nobody can sell your stuff without them suing you for Trademark infringement. So that market is screwed but open now for Aquatuning's blocks, rads etc because they have effectively blocked you out, are able to sell their stuff way cheaper making them look like the obvious choice in Europe. So now this cuts into R&D, contests, sponsorships etc which directly affects us here.

This cuts deeper then them trying to steal designs which as you pointed out they could have simply done awhile ago from the available info in the public thread but I am sure the one reason why they have not is because of a threat if someone wanted to sue them. But if they can them freely then it's a different story. It's fair game! Just letting people know what type of people are behind this competition which I think should not be allowed here at all.

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noted and well said but... speaking of their actions regarding the trademark... well founded and as a community, we have the right to be upset... our argument has weight...

making claims of this being their plot to steal designs... we will just seem like a bunch of upset folks making issues without any basis on facts.

i agree, the incidents regarding the trademark is very shady and poor actions on their behalf... and yes, unless this is resolved, my money will have to go elsewhere...

i guess what i'm getting at is... fight the right fight...

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Originally Posted by kinghong1970

noted and well said but... speaking of their actions regarding the trademark... well founded and as a community, we have the right to be upset... our argument has weight...

making claims of this being their plot to steal designs... we will just seem like a bunch of upset folks making issues without any basis on facts.

i agree, the incidents regarding the trademark is very shady and poor actions on their behalf... and yes, unless this is resolved, my money will have to go elsewhere...

i guess what i'm getting at is... fight the right fight...

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Good point.

Though, seeing they had no issues doing a trademark grab, who is to say they have no issue "stealing" designs?

I think it is more a trust issue in the company. They have already shown that they can't be trusted, so how can we as a community trust this contest?

I am in the midst of driving across country, so not really able to catch/read every post in detail, and haven't had a chance to read the contest rules at bit-tech.

All I'd ask is that we don't stoop to calling each other names - doesn't mean we can't legitimately say that we don't like a company's practices - let's just not make it personal (and that goes two ways). Let's also not bring any other websites into it - no need to muddy the waters.

What I am confused about ...

1) Did Mick personally enter his design into the contest? If so, then I guess what happens is up to him. If not, then hopefully his design will not be used by anyone who doesn't have the rights to it (morally, ethically, or legally).

2) Has all the trademark grabbing issue stuff been resolved with Aqua Tuning? I dunno - never got a real answer to that one.

edit ... added after reading prava's post. I think the trademark issue is serious enough that it's not one people are going to ignore. Doesn't mean it should be allowed to have multiple threads - but it is going to come up in discussion when AT is the subject. However, I do agree that it is everyone's individual choice as to whether they care about it, or whether they choose to support the company - or any company.

As for the actual design contest - had a chance to visit the bit-tech thread. Putting the issue with Mick's case aside (as I'm assuming that he is dealing with that) - I don't see what all the hoopla is about. If people want to enter the contest, so be it. There seems to be some interest in it.

It's quite common in many contests that you give up your rights when you enter - for example, many photographic contests are run to get images that the contest holders can then use as their own. The key is to read the terms & conditions carefully before entering any contest where you give your intellectual property.

Guys, c'mon, hold your horses. I consider totally logic and honest to add info about what AT did with many trademarks not long ago...but to do that one post is more than enough. There is no need to troll the whole page when what needed to be said it's already there. Just because you repeat it over and over won't make your message more clear. Besides, I think everybody should have the right to decide what is morally acceptable and what is not, and thus we shall stop trolling and let the community decide.

And yes, this certainly hurts XS image because when the community allows a group of people to bash something all day long (be it a company, user...whatever) not only you are changing the topic on the discussion that was ongoing but you are creating unfriendliness among users and will let to flame wars (because somebody will say that he bought an AT product that was great and the other parts will answer...and so on), and that is never good in any forum nor community.

What is the solution? The solution to this problem is really simple. When somebody posts something you do not like:
a) You choose not to post.
b) You choose to post being clear why you do not agree/like and only answer if expected to do so.

In the case of AT, we don't need 10 users saying the same stuff, just one of'em is more than enough to educate people, and if you are ready to take it as long as it gets then create a sticker in the WC section (well-written, obviously) so that everybody is aware of the situation (or, as some suggested, ban AT from this page...but that would be a mess because probably not everybody shares the same vision and banning stuff is NEVER the solution. Educating IS).


On this contest by AT I have to say a few things:
It is clear why they do this. Both PR & free designs are the things they will get. BUT they offer a chance that normally nobody ever gets: the chance to get the case you spent countless hours in, and lets be honest here, how many people will be able to see their design as real without a contest like this? 0.1%? Maybe even less? This is a opportunity that has its pros and cons, and as it is we should encourage people to decide on their own, and that is all. Some people will never ever ever ever allow AT to have any of their designs...and some other people will don't care about who AT is or what did they do as long as they get their case.

All in all welcome to the real world...

I'm glad oliverw92's work was pulled from use without permission. I don't know the legalities behind its use (is there a stated Terms of Use at the forums or from the initial source of content?), but I'm glad that someone whose work was being used in a way they didn't want had it pulled :)

I agree with prava and mlwood37 that this looks bad on XS. Makes us look like a forum full of malcontents when that's not the case. :(

I agree with Shazza that we don't need multiple threads to discuss the trademark issue. So with that said, this thread has run its course.