Getting water down to none conductive and 0 TDS / 0us

Getting water down to none conductive and 0 TDS / 0 us !

Why? .... Because we can if we try ;) ...

I have been working with a mate and after lots of help we have been playing getting water down to 0 TDS / 0us in my home factory. Its been a bit of a struggle but were getting there.

Now i have 3 different types of TDS meter's but the one in the shoots is the most accurate and was calibrated with 3 different levels of TDS liquids from 1000 TDS to 550 TDS and last but not least 150 TDS. We also calibrated the other two meter's as well but this one seems to be the best of them all for readings.

So any way first we start off with the TDS Reading of the tap water as you can see its reading at 166 TDS which to be honest as tap water goes is not that bad in comparison to a friend’s house which we read at 650 TDS.

http://i2.sqi.sh/s_1/3rP/225.jpg

Now we ran 100 Ltrs of water though our system which took about 2 hours and we got the TDS down to 5.1 which is the same as most good branded DI water and it is what is used in most liquids for PCs. However it still isn’t good enough for me.

http://i2.sqi.sh/s_1/3rP/226.jpg

So after running another 250 Ltrs though the system we got the TDS down to 2.3 TDS which means were getting closer to the target

http://i2.sqi.sh/s_1/3rP/231.jpg

Now after loads of messing and increasing the Pressure to the system to the max we could go at the time of 60 PSI and another 500 Ltrs of water we finally hit our target..

OTDS and 0uS – real none conductive water... (well till dust gets to it any way ;) )

http://i2.sqi.sh/s_1/3rP/235.jpg
http://i2.sqi.sh/s_1/3rQ/240.jpg

However this is fluctuating between 0.00 and 0.03 which to me isn’t good enough as i want constant 0 uS and 0 TDS. So i’ve just order a new pump which should bring the pressure up in our system to maximum of 160PSI and Hopefully give us a constant 0 TDS supply.

Ill post up results once its come.

Btw way the system im using first starts off with A distiller then thought a reverse osmosis then though a Di system. I will be all so getting a new UV system to throw in there as well later on down the line just to cover all aspects of purifying the liquids down ... I love messing with this stuff haha.

Who needs a factory to do this when it can be done with a little thought and lots of wet fun ....

It's great to continue researching and trying to improve - whether it's hardware, water blocks, or coolants.

So please don't take my comments as negative towards your work. It seems to me there is way too much concern over water quality these days. Again, it's good people are taking care, but we really aren't building nuclear power plants here (well, most of us aren't ;) ).

As you indicated in your post - the quest for Zero TDS and Zero Conductivity is fun - but once the water comes in contact with dust or any other "particles," Zero no more. I can only imagine the amount of flushing and clean room work needed to maintain an actual water cooling loop at ZERO.

Again - my comments aren't meant to disparage your efforts. Research is good, but "average" quality distilled (or even *gasp* deionized) water will do fine in our loops.

No for me its about the ability and the pure satisfaction that it can be done all so obversely the fact that ill be retailing it off once its perfected. How ever right at the moment in time its all just fun ...

All so with the ability to create this means that i know have a constant supply of HQ water for the dyes so again it will improve the product. Now we know its possible to do this ill be buying in more equipment to do the same to the dyes making them even purer how ever i doubt i can get dyes down to none conductive but its worth a try.

And i dont take your comment at all as a bad one because your stating facts that ever one should know about and this should always be considered before falling for the trap of Hyped up a product.

But still with this type of water it is better than normal DI as you know that there is nothing in it, which is not a bad thing.

I can appreciate what you are trying to do with the quality of your product. At work, I am partially responsible for operating the plant’s reactor make -up water treatment system. Our system produces water that needs to be at least .06 uS/cm. We also have limits regarding the sodium and silica levels but these minerals shouldn’t be a concern for water cooler, as their harmful effect doesn’t apply (high temperatures in the case of silica and stainless steel in the case of sodium).

Dissolved oxygen is the other parameter that we have to monitor and one that is would be good to control in your water cooling loop, but to be honest would be too hard for even the most extreme enthusiast to control or monitor.

The biggest problem when dealing with high purity water is its affinity to reabsorb minerals and impurities.

I find it some what amazing that simple filtration chemistry control systems haven’t found a niche in the water cooling market, the number of post I see on this forum related to chemistry control problems tells me that there is a need for such a system. When you spend a thousand dollars for a top end cooling system only to experience corrosion and fouling issues spending 50 dollars to keep the system from being damaged doesn’t seem that outrageous to me.

A simple resin bed system would be nice for providing mechanical filtration and some decent chemical control.

It hasn't made into PC watercooling market because it's not issue worth enough taking care of, at least if you don't put aluminium components in loop. Just like with inline mechanical waterfilters for LC out there, - yes, they are not very costly and don't impact flow too much .. but in most cases if you properly clean/rinse all components before assembling loop (especially rads), you don't need such. Probably same story about that chemical control - you don't really "damage" that cooling system, so no need to do something about it. Yes, water becomes conductive, and sollute dust/metallic ions/oxigen. Is it really THAT bad @LC, or just empirical imagination that it's bad by some placebo effect?

The only problem i see with using resin beds is the fact that it slows down the flow of the liquids. This could cause major problems if in a water cooling system because the weaker pumps wouldn't be able to handle it. All so i dont think water cooling blocks are tested to a pressure that would be needed in a system to force the liquids through the resin bed.

Any one could literal supply you with the best water in the world for you system but its down to the user to clean there system properly before using such products. How ever some suggestions i seen flying around for cleaning a water cooling loop simply make me cringe. All so people leaving water in there system for over a year really isn't a good idea.

I think the typical inline cylindrical reservoir could be converted fairly easily to a simple resin bed by adding a strainer screen to outlet. We have small resin beds at work for sampling that would be perfect for this and I know that the differential pressure across them is pretty low. Even just having a bed that could be valved in on a regular basis with the computer shut down would be fine. I will take a few pictures to give you an idea of what I am talking about. Maybe even some of the water treatment system just to show people what a industrial high purity water treatment system setup looks like.

NIce job.

But my real concern is that this water wont stay at 0 TDS. Even if i have 500 liter of this to clean my loop, as soon as this water will run trough the loop it not goin to be long before its conductive again cause of all the copper its touching.

no it wouldn't stay at 0 tds as that's imposable unless you stick filters in your system but its purer than di water. For me to get 0 Tds in the bottle, the bottle has to be flushed 3 times. But as terms go when you go buy DI water as pointed plenty of times before DI water can range as high as 10 TDS to as low as 5 TDS. Were this is as pure it can be guaranteed.

that's of course once ive perfected it.

That is why I brought up the resin bed idea, but I could see doing a fill with distilled water then bringing the system to normal operating temperature, higher if possible, then drain out the distilled water and adding the demin water. Should leave you with better than average conductivity especially if you can get the system relatively hot while it has the distilled water in it.

There's something about seeing the thought process and tenacity of how you work that is just awe inspiring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akula

That is why I brought up the resin bed idea, but I could see doing a fill with distilled water then bringing the system to normal operating temperature, higher if possible, then drain out the distilled water and adding the demin water. Should leave you with better than average conductivity especially if you can get the system relatively hot while it has the distilled water in it.

---

I thought you idea is fantastic to be honest and erm well some thing i was thinking about before but not as a resin bed.

I had a quick look into the info on the resin i use for this system and I use 10" vessels with a Diameter of 4" and they are rated at 3500 Gallons or 6 months. So taking that into account and looking at the modern day pumps in water cooled PCs + the factor that a PC may be switched on 24/7 you may be looking at having to change the resin bed on a monthly basis.

How ever ! Create / design an electronic flow meter and temp meter, (would need to work out time as well) do the maths , create a easy system to add in the resin and remove it with seals (say a slide in & out system with a pe-sealed amount of resin). then i think you would be onto creating the perfect environment or water cooling system that will last a long time.

How ever the bad thing is recirculation ... Even resin can become fouled and ruin the balance of the water so constant checks would need to be viewed say though a window in the app that you created.. .. could be possible be could be annoying but very interesting :) ...

Oh yeh flushing with d-water first then this would create a better environment for the 0 TDS liquids to go into :). that's how my bottles are cleaned. first i clean with 5 tds di water then 3 tds di water then a quick flush with this water then i fill them. (slow process but it works).
---------

Still thinking more you could even create a Plug in system via USB that Produces on screen a accurate meter to read the temps / Flow / TDS / EC and possibly PH balance of the liquid cooling system all in one system with the DI resin draw. With built software based alarm systems of when to change the Resin and calculating the remaining time :) .... Maybe this is over engineering a solution but heck it certainly would be fun to create.

This would take Water cooling into a new age that's for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by defect9

There's something about seeing the thought process and tenacity of how you work that is just awe inspiring.

---

Erm now im speechless .. thank you.

yeah, nice and all, but you do realize it will all turn conductive after a short period of time in the loop...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ericFX1984

yeah, nice and all, but you do realize it will all turn conductive after a short period of time in the loop...

---

please read the rest of the forum post weave been discussing that ... in detail.

My suggestion:

$5/liter, 5 TDS guaranteed distilled

Right now all we have is the ultra high end expensive stuff, so people bail to the grocery store using water of unknown origins or quality. Would be great to have a product that is basically ordinary distilled water with a little quality control checking at reasonable prices.:up:

Love the testing though, that's awesome for the extreme.:yepp:

my target price is the same price you pay for distilled. (well that's my aim any way). Atm the cost has been laid down for the liquid the killer is the bottles.

For me to be able to produce this to a point (price point) i have to buy bottles in 1000's so that money can be made how ever. Im planning on not making any money on this product until i can substantiate and have the ability to be able to buy in bulk.

This will come with time.

All so things to Note i have a 98% rejection rate. meaning only 2% of product is made from 100% flow. So for me to create 1 Ltr i get rid of 98 Ltrs this may seem high but dont forget this really is still early development. We've all ready been talking about adding 2 more osmosis chambers into the grid and with the new pump arriving this will all so increase the % at what is made and what is rejected. All so when i can afford it again ill be adding in a 4th system winch is a UV light that kills off the remaining bacteria. Now i know that it is not really needed how ever the extra cost of the appliance is worth the extra knowledge that what i am making is as good as its ever going to get.

some thing ppl may take into account is that i dont have money to throw around (trust me my budget is every penny i make and get goes into this) and I have to make sure that what ever i buy is going to improve the product and is not just some thing that sounds good. Every thing I do, I throw my self at 100%. I spend a lot of my time on the phone and a lot of my time on goggle and approaching people who are in the know to get help for free.

I hear the phrase time is money. Well to me time is not money because i never make a penny. what i do get is satisfaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Martinm210

My suggestion:

$5/liter, 5 TDS guaranteed distilled

Right now all we have is the ultra high end expensive stuff, so people bail to the grocery store using water of unknown origins or quality. Would be great to have a product that is basically ordinary distilled water with a little quality control checking at reasonable prices.:up:

Love the testing though, that's awesome for the extreme.:yepp:

---

here check out my target price ->http://www.wcdyes.com/Shop/23-pure-h20 .. better than di and cheaper than di.

ml, just out of curiosity, what's the pH of the 0/0 water after all processes?

GREAT question! And what is our optimal PH?

WL, you come through again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

here check out my target price ->http://www.wcdyes.com/Shop/23-pure-h20 .. better than di and cheaper than di.

---

Nice..great work!

The Ph is 6.2 to 7 how ever this fluctuates with in this range (way to much) and my test system is not perfect yet. That's the next thing on my buy list as well is a decent PH meter as i dont trust the readings on the meter i have and it doesn't seem to calibrate to well.

Perfect PH for water cooling system is about 7 (as this is the perfect balance between acid and alkaline) or lower 5.5 to 6's being the min (this is DI water range normally). Any thing over 7.9 is considered acid hence no good for water cooling.

this is the meter im after -> http://www.tdsmeter.co.uk/shop/produ...&products_id=7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

The Ph is 6.2 to 7 how ever this fluctuates with in this range (way to much) and my test system is not perfect yet. That's the next thing on my buy list as well is a decent PH meter as i dont trust the readings on the meter i have and it doesn't seem to calibrate to well.

Perfect PH for water cooling system is about 7 (as this is the perfect balance between acid and alkaline) or lower 5.5 to 6's being the min (this is DI water range normally). Any thing over 7.9 is considered acid hence no good for water cooling.

this is the meter im after -> http://www.tdsmeter.co.uk/shop/produ...&products_id=7

---

Good to hear that it's a good bit better than what I was expecting. I know a "certain company" that sells bi-distilled water that isn't going to be as pure as this stuff and they're claiming a pH in the 2-3 range. :stick:

Actually, acids are at the low end and bases are at the high end. ;)

sorry been up all night. yeh your correct. :).

But like i say though my readings are not accurate yet.

been keeping an eye on the waste water and found its coming out at a TDS of between 2.4 to 3.5 this isn't really that bad as its still better than pure DI water. So my brain going into gear as per normal and been reading up on Ionic Silver water and how dammed easy it is to make it. So over the last few hours ive knocked up a test ionic chamber and now running off some Ionic silver test samples to see if i can get a good concentrate made easily. Im going to try and hit 20 PPM since the fluids is 3.5 TDS max this means it still has the ability to conduct electricity hence still is better than Di water and should create a near perfect solution.

(good old saying waste Not wont Not) if it works that not only means ill be hopefully making 0 TDI liquids and the waste will be used for other purposes. After all why chuck some thing that seems to be better than most brands any way pmsl. Once the Silver ionic is made i can shove it though one of my 1 micron spare filters so that i know the liquids are still going to be pretty dammed pure with out removing to much silver ion particles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

been keeping an eye on the waste water and found its coming out at a TDS of between 2.4 to 3.5 this isn't really that bad as its still better than pure DI water. So my brain going into gear as per normal and been reading up on Ionic Silver water and how dammed easy it is to make it. So over the last few hours ive knocked up a test ionic chamber and now running off some Ionic silver test samples to see if i can get a good concentrate made easily. Im going to try and hit 20 PPM since the fluids is 3.5 TDS max this means it still has the ability to conduct electricity hence still is better than Di water and should create a near perfect solution.

(good old saying waste Not wont Not) if it works that not only means ill be hopefully making 0 TDI liquids and the waste will be used for other purposes. After all why chuck some thing that seems to be better than most brands any way pmsl. Once the Silver ionic is made i can shove it though one of my 1 micron spare filters so that i know the liquids are still going to be pretty dammed pure with out removing to much silver ion particles.

---

Very nice! Maybe premix that 3.5 with a drop of copper sulfate, and it would be a great lower cost, ready to use biocide included distilled..:)

Well i could sell as distilled but adding in ionic silver into it it could be a cheap biocide. The cost would be that much more than what is at the moment as i all ready have all the tools and equipment to make and test it. There for a natural biocide is in there.

Im trying to move away from copper sulphate my self as it not really a environmentally friendly product and to be honest still would need topping up at a 6 month point. Its going to take me a few hours to produce 25 ltrs but i dont see no reason why it wouldn't work. Ive been looking at prices on line and paying £23.00 a Ltr is bloody mental and im working out the cost to make + bottle + waist water (well what my system is calling waist). I see now reason why it cannot be produced cheaper if controlled properly.

Been a long couple of days figuring out problems and getting this system working.

Any way this morning my mate took 6 samples (inc 2 tap water samples) into work with himself and they ran brake down tests on the samples to see what we had removed from the water. Now one thing we found out this morning was when we removed the coconut filters out the system which are supposed to remove order and make it taste better (which im not fussed about) the TDS and Us became more stable. So that wasn't needed in the system. Any way got my brake down via email (since hes pulled all night double Shift) and this is what he's sent back to me.

From the Tap water being analysed to our samples this is what we have removed from the tap water.

Calcium 97-99%
Bromide 90-95%
Sodium 95-98%
Phosphate 97-98%
Magnesium 95-98%
Cyanide 94-97%
Potassium 94-96%
Sulfate 96-99%
Manganese 96-98%
Thiosulfate 96-98%
Iron 96-98%
Silicate 92-95%
Aluminum 96-98%
Silica 90-98%
Copper 96-99%
Nitrate 96-98%
Nickel 96-99%
Boron 70-75%
Cadmium 93-97%
Borate 30-50%
Silver 94-96%
Fluoride 93-95%
Zinc 96-98%
Polyphosphate 96-98%
Mercury 94-97%
Orthophosphate 96-98%
Hardness Ca&Mg 93-97%
Chromate 85-95%
Radioactivity 93-97%
Bacteria 99+ (the UV lamp you getting will make this 100% mick)
Chloride 92-98%
Lead 95-98%
Ammonium 91-95%
Arsenic 90-95%

So looking at the results that quite good but to me still not good enough. Im still waiting for the new pump to arrive hopefully giving the system more pressure will help and as we found out removal of the coconut filter certainly did help ...

All so my pre filter is 5 micron , i think i am going to get my self a 1 micron filter and add it just after the 5 micron filter all though i've been told the 1 micron filters tend to block a lot but since ill have a 5 micron filter beforehand this may stop that happing to much. All so im pushing the system though 3 DI filters when i can afford it im going to push this up to 4 DI filters as well.

Hopefully i can improve on these results. :) (i really need some sleep hahaha)

So is it cheaper and better including shipping than the US distilled or Deionized in the UK?

You selling snake oil here. Some folks in the hinterlands might need it. They need to move out of the 1800's.

Looks like marketing is your key to making a profit. Marketing can be done with booze and a email adress.

Your gonna end up with some Feser fun promise that it's better because of no real reason, but peeps will buy it. You profit, thankfully there is truth availible on the internet.

And Your Karma.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conumdrum

So is it cheaper and better including shipping than the US distilled or Deionized in the UK?

You selling snake oil here. Some folks in the hinterlands might need it. They need to move out of the 1800's.

Looks like marketing is your key to making a profit. Marketing can be done with booze and a email adress.

Your gonna end up with some Feser fun promise that it's better because of no real reason, but peeps will buy it. You profit, thankfully there is truth availible on the internet.

And Your Karma.

---

Wtf have you been smoking ?

Mlwood been straight up about what he's doing. And what the expected results are i've been following the threads I suggest you actually read them.

He's made no unresonable claims, and is trying to Develop and put out a decent WC product.

It's not to your taste so what. Doesn't mean other people don't want to use it or can't you see that past the chip on your shoulder.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Snake oil originally came from China, where it is called shéyóu (蛇油). There, it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as a pain reliever in China. Fats and oils from snakes are higher in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) than other sources. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.

---

Quote:

---

Water is a chemical substance with the chemical formula H2O. Its molecule contains one oxygen and two hydrogen atoms connected by covalent bonds. Water is a liquid at ambient conditions, but it often co-exists on Earth with its solid state, ice, and gaseous state, water vapor or steam.

---

I think there is a distinctive difference ...

Any way as not to bump the tread and to keep it back on topic.

(update)

I've been looking further into how we can get this more stable and just ordered the new 1 Micron filter and another in di filter.

So the set up will go like this

Tap water
In-line TDS meter Primary readings.
160 PSI water pump (on its way)
Distillery stage 1,
Distillery stage 2,
5 Micron filter,
1 Micron Filter, (on its way)
Carbon Block, / Hits a flush valve for particle rejection and flushing the Osmosis Systems
Osmosis system (3 stage parallel) (2 more to be bought yet just to increase production from 100 gallon to 300 gallon)
Pre Di filter,
Main DI Filter 1,
Main Di Filter 2,
In-line DI filter (on its way),
High Power UV spectrum Lamp (To be bought),
In line TDS meter (for reading final product value),
To container (seal Drum with pressure out valve)

Checks made once product has been left for 6 hours

1) TDS reading in PPM (NaCI and 442)
2) Us reading (NaCI and 442)
3) PH vale (to be bought)
4) Temperature readings

Total build cost before mistakes - £570.25 (the coconut filter was £54 which wasn't needed and raised the TDS and Us Value this is not added into total over all cost)

Expected Filter change out every 6 months
Total filter cost - £175 every 6 months

Once very thing is here i'll do re runs and full test and give readings again.

AIM - to produce Real Ultra Pure water at 0 TDS / O uS (no ifs or buts)
Befit - The knowledge that you are buying what you pay for and know exactly how its made and were it comes from.

No other claim except that the reading to be real true readings, (100% Qc)

Profit to be made (some ppl would not even get out of bed for the amount i make pmsl but i dont care).

Ahh, mayhem. Perfection artist should be his title. Love the work that you do, you don't mind sharing pics of how your system looks/works do you?

Yeh ill do that once its fully complete as its in loads of bits atm.

I all so need to build a case for ir all to fit into :).

will also be interesting to see readings down the line after a couple months sitting in the bottle.

I don't think you can drop water to being non conductive. Auto ionization of water prevents this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

Yeh ill do that once its fully complete as its in loads of bits atm.

I all so need to build a case for ir all to fit into :).

---

Just screw them to the sides under your sink (if its big enough) and run your lines from one to the other. Most of the filters can be nice and snug with double male fittings. I use a R/O system with other filters as well including carbon, 1 micron sediment as well as the ceramic cores (which are awesome by the way). I should take pics as its a lab under my sink...:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegras

I don't think you can drop water to being non conductive. Auto ionization of water prevents this.

---

Yup it's true and even if you managed for it not to the dust on the board will connect the dots anyway and zap.

Your right, I'm wrong. I'll back off.

Someone wants perfect water for a day? More power to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadasius

Just screw them to the sides under your sink (if its big enough) and run your lines from one to the other. Most of the filters can be nice and snug with double male fittings. I use a R/O system with other filters as well including carbon, 1 micron sediment as well as the ceramic cores (which are awesome by the way). I should take pics as its a lab under my sink...:rofl:

---

Sadasius - Yeh mate that's who is helping me. was on the phone to him yesterday and he said "you dont want much do you!! . I using the Ro-systems but he's even loving how far we can get it down to on a budget. This wont fit under the sink though its starting to get a little to large for it. I did start off with the 100 GPD 6 stage filter system but as you can see i have taken it a lot further than that and adjusted it to our needs instead.

Conumdrum - nothing against what you saying at all (or you in fact). Just the idea is not to create a mega expensive product that claims the world. Its to be able to create some thing that actually is what it says on the bottle. When you buy a Bottle Of DI water there is no info on it telling you really what's inside. Some UW clams certain aspects of the liquids but they are always found to be way off the mark.

Im not advertising it like snake oil in the sense that im not trying to sell you some thing under fake conditions or using lies or modified truths. Do not forget Just because you live in the USA you are not the only people on this planet. We live in England have to always pay a high price for most things we buy and the Di water over here isn't the best.

cegras - I dont think it will stay a perfect 0/0 across the bored but if i can get it in the bottle that way at least we know it was a pure as can be when being bottled. But once it leave my hands though i have no control of temps , atmosphere ect.

Small update.

Now i have about 15 x 25 Ltr drums for holding water , There all Food grade and there all HDPE but there is a difference.

We have White, Natural, Black and Blue. Now leaving the liquid in each one over a few days has provided some real strange results and that being that the white and natural 25 ltr drums both add about 0.08 ppm @ 19c (i expected this) and the black and blue add upwards of 4 PPM @ 19c (i never expected this). The liquids were injected into the drums direct from the system and cleaned thorough beforehand. The temp of the water when it was going into the drums was 18.5c and the ppm was 0.000 to 0.004. (the reader is calibrated with a 1000 PPM liquid with a 2% -/+)

I find this really strange as its the same across 2 of each of the different colours of containers. Now for the life of me i see no reason why this is happening and in no way am i saying there is a difference between using different colour bottles but it certainly has got me stumped. Needs more testing and maybe a re test and re clean of all the drums and try it again and see if it happens again.

Any way there is 6 x 1 ltr bottles stored in my airing cupboard and the temp in there is between 25c to 35c (raising and lowering as the heating goes on and off). Ill leave them in there for 7 days , I all so have 6 bottles in a box in the dark left in my second cupboard were the temp is 18 to 19c to run comparative tests. The bottles are all White 1 ltr HDPE bottles.

Will let you know the tests results later on.

( i know this will bore some ppl and alot of peeps are not interested but its nice to know that bottles not stored correctly or in the wrong type can have its consequences).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

Small update.

Now i have about 15 x 25 Ltr drums for holding water , There all Food grade and there all HDPE but there is a difference.

We have White, Natural, Black and Blue. Now leaving the liquid in each one over a few days has provided some real strange results and that being that the white and natural 25 ltr drums both add about 0.08 ppm @ 19c (i expected this) and the black and blue add upwards of 4 PPM @ 19c (i never expected this). The liquids were injected into the drums direct from the system and cleaned thorough beforehand. The temp of the water when it was going into the drums was 18.5c and the ppm was 0.000 to 0.004. (the reader is calibrated with a 1000 PPM liquid with a 2% -/+)

I find this really strange as its the same across 2 of each of the different colours of containers. Now for the life of me i see no reason why this is happening and in no way am i saying there is a difference between using different colour bottles but it certainly has got me stumped. Needs more testing and maybe a re test and re clean of all the drums and try it again and see if it happens again.

Any way there is 6 x 1 ltr bottles stored in my airing cupboard and the temp in there is between 25c to 35c (raising and lowering as the heating goes on and off). Ill leave them in there for 7 days , I all so have 6 bottles in a box in the dark left in my second cupboard were the temp is 18 to 19c to run comparative tests. The bottles are all White 1 ltr HDPE bottles.

Will let you know the tests results later on.

( i know this will bore some ppl and alot of peeps are not interested but its nice to know that bottles not stored correctly or in the wrong type can have its consequences).

---

Are they transparent? If not, then I'm confused.

Another question: why do you toss all that water away when you could run it through the filter again?

No there normal black and blue. Like i say i need to re test as the results dont add up.

It cannot be put back into the mains. how ever later on down the line the water will be filtered a second time / 3rd time but i cannot afford to get a full set up and have to build it bit by bit. Plus im having massive problems due to RO-Man being a pain in the ass and not supplying every thing i ordered and paid for up front. E.g the in line TDS meter was never delivered and i had to buy another one. Been waiting for over a week now for the Pump which will reduce the amount of waste plus drop the TDS more. Plus the fact ive had to wait in all week for some thing he never even bothered his ass to send and didn't even tell me.

So ive been looking for a more reliable supplier for the items as so far im out over £125 because of him. Sick to death of phoning and emailing and getting no response as well. So i wouldn't recommend any one buying any thing off him.

is it possible the blue and black are leeching dye/color? food grade doesn't mean immune from that, only that anything they leech out isn't harmful and doesnt noticeably affect taste.

that's one of my thoughts so ive re run liquids into them ill test again tomorrow.

if they show the same results then seemingly its not a good idea to use Black or Blue drums to store liquids.

This will all so prove that the pre bought water was so bad because of the packaging hence why i started to make my own in the first place.

Pic of how the system will work once finished.

Bit over Kill but hay its fun doing it.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9...0ultrapure.jpg

*looks at chart*

"He's mad I tell you!"

http://i53.tinypic.com/10i9nyo.gif

Keep it up mad scientist ;).

wait... no snake oil?

pfft. waste of time then ; ).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cegras

Another question: why do you toss all that water away when you could run it through the filter again?

---

It's how the R.O System works. Mine is designed the same way and has a hose that I had to attach to the drain and is where the 'reject' water goes. When my holding tank is full then the R/O system is no longer running. But as soon as I use some water from the pure water tank it starts to produce pure water again. My system produces only 17 litres a day on full capacity (it's not a high yield just high quality). The system rejects 7 times that number because of all the impurities and lack of pressure. Mind you Mayhem is inducing pressure with another pump to make the R/O System more efficient but at the same time can lead to wear and tear on the R/O membrane much faster and those damn things are expensive depending on the system you have and how much chlorine is coming in.

I should get some of these TDS meters though. Basically went on the word of NSF that tested the systems installed. Maybe I should test my own systems for myself as I had no way to answer some questions on my own systems which is kind of sad. I use my water in my W/C system but seriously though it makes no difference when compared to distilled water. I just use my R/O water because it makes sense to since I have the system to use it. It would not make sense though getting one installed thinking it will do anything better then distilled because it will not and in fact may cause more harm to your system as it will leech materials from your rads, blocks and fittings to balance the water. Just having a cup of pure water sitting on the counter you would quickly notice using litmus paper that the Ph is going up as it adopts carbon atoms from the air. City run R/O systems are much dirtier water due to the pipes that it goes through before it gets to your glass. Could be anything from lead to actual sewage. My in house R/O system uses its own faucet.

Yeh that's why im all so introducing triple RO membranes into the system. to reduce the amount of waste water. (yup they aint cheap but hay if it works then im happy).

Any way onto this matter with the blue and black drums. 100% confirmed my readings to day. (this morning)

Black and Blue food safe drums up the TDS and US value of water goes by as much as 5 TDS in 18 Hrs. White increases the TDS between 0.5 to 0.7 TDS and natural 0.1 to 0.5.

So Do not use Black or Blue drums to store water and ill be passing this info and all my test results to a D-Water maker that i have had loads of problems in the past and explains why "Car Plan" water has all ways been better in the past as its stored in White drums.

You learn some thing new ever day.

Sadasius - If you going to get a hand TDS get the HM Digital EC/TDS/TEMP COM-100 i had 4 different ones now and 2 died on me and 1 is flaky as hell. This is the only one that gives constant good reading and calibrates easily in comparison. you pay a little more for it but its worth the money. They all so do in-line meter which are good to. This is excellent for finding out the water in / water out TDS. Mind you im racking up the £'s on my water tester's for this fluid as i've now spent well over £150 on water meters. pmsl

So what benefit does this give over distilled for most WC'ers? Knowing that they had the purest water for a few seconds?

Can it be purchased by the liter for cheap? Or will you be selling it at a higher price than Pure-Sil ;) ?

Seriously, my loop is not 100% clean, there are not many growths yet but I can see some oxidation on blocks as well as a small bit of residue in my res. If I used this stuff it would bring me about...no benefit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeepBeep2

So what benefit does this give over distilled for most WC'ers? Knowing that they had the purest water for a few seconds?

Can it be purchased by the liter for cheap? Or will you be selling it at a higher price than Pure-Sil ;) ?

Seriously, my loop is not 100% clean, there are not many growths yet but I can see some oxidation on blocks as well as a small bit of residue in my res. If I used this stuff it would bring me about...no benefit.

---

Maybe if you read the whole post its about paying for what you get. And this is the same price as DI water. The only difference is this is purer and at least you know what you are paying for. DI water is not as good, dont know what PPM it has dont know what US it has ect ect. So you tell me more Value for money or not. Or haven't you read the whole thread.

All so the fact that leaning things like Blue and Black containers make liquids worse .... oh dear me nope you may not have read that bit, or the fact im actually teaching people how im doing it as well so if people want to do it them self they can OMG forbid im telling people how i make this stuff so even they can make there own wow. crap ... ... arr wait one let me think im reading the same thing some one else posted up .... pmsl....

It might be for same price as distilled in UK or in EU .. but if shipped overseas, won't shipping price difference make it sensless compared to DI bought locally?

his target market isn't the US since we have an easier time finding distilled water

My target market is the UK and EU guys that's correct it wouldn't be cost effective to send over to the USA. Here in the UK there are two main companies for DI water and one isnt bad and the other well i have seen better tap water tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlwood37

Sadasius - If you going to get a hand TDS get the HM Digital EC/TDS/TEMP COM-100 i had 4 different ones now and 2 died on me and 1 is flaky as hell. This is the only one that gives constant good reading and calibrates easily in comparison. you pay a little more for it but its worth the money. They all so do in-line meter which are good to. This is excellent for finding out the water in / water out TDS. Mind you im racking up the £'s on my water tester's for this fluid as i've now spent well over £150 on water meters. pmsl

---

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. :up:

well its all gone live not all the parts arrived and the system is full up and running correctly.

Short term test shown the bottles do rise the TDS and US up a little (only a small amount) which is not a problem. The liquid goes in the bottle 0 TDS and 0 US but temperature does effect it as well as the bottle a little. But that's life.

I can only run the system 4 times a day and produce 100 Ltr a day at the levels and Hq i want. So all is good.

Now to crack on with my other projects ive had on hold. Still need to get my self a heat killer when i can afford it so i can put my white liquids though there paces.

:) ...

I had some ppl try and order the bottles to other countries out side of the EU which is amazing but had to cancel all the orders as the shipping was way to high. I dont what people paying over the odds for some thing. Not fair on them and makes me look like a rip off artist.

If you do what one of my resellers to stock it you'll need to email them :) ...