Please mark which top do you use or used with your blue impeller Laing DDC.
Let's compare it to the Death Poll.
Please mark which top do you use or used with your blue impeller Laing DDC.
Let's compare it to the Death Poll.
I've swapped around a little on mine. I have had one XSPC regular top, one XSPC res top, and one SWC top. They have all ran probably for about a year + on a DDC3.2, no problems with any of them. Also have a D5 with an EK top, no problems.
Knocking on wood..:D
I think we should see allot of XSPC tops, which would in-turn make sense of seeing so many die with the top on. I have two XSPC tops/pumps both are good although one is a bit noisier... I havent figured out why.
EK dual top on 2 ddc 3.2s for last ~ 8 months. Before that had 2 xspc tops for over a year. Had to search old posts to see when using XSPC vs EK. Do I choose 1 or 2 EK and 2 XSPC? so far just 1 EK..doesnt look like I can choose again.
Got 2 DDC3.2s on an EK dual top. Been running for about 4 months now IIRC. There is direct airflow over the pumps too.
I actually expect EK and XSPC to tie, or at least a neck-to-neck race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokester_wild
could be, I think allot of people have switched to the EK in the last year or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandr0s
1 Stock, 1 Koolance.
2 DDC-3.2s on EK Dual DDC V2 (+5 months) - one is over 3 years old, which ran on a Petra's Top until this year and the other bought here on XS (unknown age).
Hmm, i wonder why stock top wasn't included in vote. And shouldn't XSPC top be united with restop? I'm guessing that internals wise it should be similar?
Interesting to see EK almost as popular as XSPC. So maybe there is some ground in claims of higher failure rate with XSPC tops :/
I'm 90% sure there is grounds for the XSPC top pump failures. It just seems to make sense, given that nearly every "my DDC died!" thread is with an XSPC top.
FWIW, I've been running a Petra DDCT-01s top for like 3 years.
Though the data is probably far from accurate at this point in time, even now the difference in failure ratio becomes painfully obvious if we look at the 2 big ones:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
9 EK tops, 2 failing
11 XSPC tops, 15 failing
Though we'll need to wait a while to get more data, but I think we can already see a trend emerging.
Im worried my one pump is dieing, its loud. makes a noise like a fan bearing going or something. not healthy sounding at any rate. Unless its just because theres a 90 after it right away....
i have a 3.2 with the blue impeller and an ek v1 g3/8 and its running strong for over 2 years now
Swifty 355 and XSPC top (running fine for 2 years)
Had one of my two MCP355's bite it in less than a year running an XSPC res/top. The second one just started making a feint noise the other day. So whats the under/over that the top is to blame?
I've got a 355 blue impeller with an EK v2 that's starting to make noise.
2 Koolance PMP400 (a.k.a.Laing DDC 3.25) with 2 EK Xtop V.2 on each pump, replacing the old good tough Swiftech MCP655 Vario with EK Top. DDC 3.25 not yet running, I've been overhauled the entire rig, moving from Q9550 to Bloomfield.
1 x DDC3.2 w/ XSPC Res Top for 1 year.
---Changed to XSPC V3 top for 1 year.
1 x DDC3.2 w/ XSPC Res Top for 2 years.
This for the loop in my sig. Was dual loop now series.
EDIT: forgot to mention, no problems yet, though one pump slightly louder than other (one with more miles).
still sitting on my petra top
The theory is something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrmold
When running low restriction loops, the pump runs over-time, spinning at a much higher rate. This high RPM causes the impeller to lift up a bit. Now the reasoning is that the XSPC tops are designed a bit differently than most normal tops, creating friction on the impeller, which is pretty bad for the hardware inside the pump.
I'm probably off on some points, so if someone can give a better explanation, please do so :).
I've only had my blue impeller DDC running for 6 months with XSPC res\top, but so far so good.
My red impeller DDC2 has been going over 3 years, mostly with Petras top & the last 6 months with XSPC res\top.
Well, so far it seems that XSPC doesn't out number the other tops, like everyone has been claiming.
Looking at about 30 XSPC tops vs about 30 other tops and most of those are EKs. So there might be something to the XSPC tops having issues. :shrug:
Current thinking is that DDCs using XSPC tops are reaching higher RPMs than those running EK/Petra/etc, causing higher power draw and early pump death. Those running higher restriction loops are safe, as the pump has more resistance to work against and therefore cannot reach such high impeller speeds and therefore cannot draw as much power. Non-XSPC tops are (it's thought) designed with a little more tolerance around the impeller, which results in slightly lower performance but slightly safer operation.
Let's wait for more results. Pitty that one cannot write down ammount in voting (eg. for those that use dual tops or have several builds).
Maybe OP can edit the first post and keep another tally. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
I have both xspc and EK top, first I ordered xspc dual ddc top... used some time to finish pump mod about to get finished i noticed a few microfractures in acryl , had read around on XS that xspc had a few issues decided to go EK dual top V2.
(Loop are reservoir (400 mm) -> EK dual ddc top with multioption reservoir (60 mm) -> radiator -> qdc -> cpu -> sb/nb chipset -> mosfets -> mips ramcooler -> qdc -> AC flowmeter -> radiator -> qdc -> 2 x 5970 in paralell -> qdc -> mips ramcooler (cools 2 x mcubed miniNG) -> chipset cooler (cools mcubed BigNG) -> back to reservoir
waterflow 291 liter/hour)
I run 8 DDC's with XSPC tops, most are over year old, not a failure yet... crosses fingers. had one D5 go bad, that is it for pump failures, that were normal deaths, not due to me over/undervolting, or modding.. :p:
whats the rpm on an xspc top, my ek g3/8 runs 4655Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulsCollective
my xspc res top runs around 4440-4470rpms min 4411rpms max 4500rpms , that even only running on cpu only loop with Apogee XT and then with two EKs for 5850 Asus DirectCU cards and the cpu...Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
My EK dual ddc V2 pump 1 4700-4800 rpm pump 2 5000-5100 rpm
temps on pump internal hits 46-47 Celsius
Anyone else having trouble adding up the percentages to 100%..:D
I spy vBulletin bug..
I thought the EK tops outperformed the XSPC. Would that not indicate that EK tops allow for faster RPM of impeller, logically?Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulsCollective
130% of us responded, so seams correct.. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Do you have links to the tests of the tops? I have an EK V2 and an XSPC top (that I'm currently using) - is it worth swapping over? I also have an alphacool top modded to have a 10-11mm top inlet, but it probably still performs worse than the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by CedricFP
Quoting myself ^ ... I just checked the current on this pump and it's only pulling 1.28A at 12v.Quote:
Originally Posted by dengyong
Since it's still within spec, I'm going to leave it in the loop until it gets worse.
Loop = pump to PA120.3 to PA120.3 to swiftech GTZ to ported AquagraFX fc block to iandh res using 30 inches total, of 7/16 tubing.
128.57% total, lol :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Yea, I was trying to figure that out too. :rofl::rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
i tried, I can't edit the poll options.Quote:
Originally Posted by millertime359
I would be better to write how many pumps you have.
Regarding the stock pump: it does not matter, since you can call warranty on a stock not moded pump fail.
Regarding the XSPC Res/Top, they look similar but since it is the most popular res/top solution I want to know if they have the failure rate of the top only model.
Remember you can vote in more than one top.
Martinm, read the poll, it's multiple choice, meaning they don't add up to 100%, because I believe it only counts the amount of people voting, not the amount of votes made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Zern P12 - quietest top that i know, followed by Koolance PMP400 (old metal version) or the Phobya Metal Top
EK and Watercool Tops are much louder !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z541Ri87TMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX3wynmQxKk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4os7Kv2lNg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPLsZqarZUo
Are these tests done with the same loop ?Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
Yes, i made a review last year
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=258969
The new PMP-400 is a bit louder than the old PMP400 Metal top :( So, the zern top is the quietest atm
Do you know of a US distributor for the Zern P12 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
No :( Here is a contact formular, if you want to ask them:
https://www.zern.at/zern_shop/de/cms/7/kontakt.html
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
Are these tops you actually use or just tested?Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
Both - I got 8 PCīs
OK, just wanted to make sure as this is for tops used/actually in use in a system loop.:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
Do you think the results may be different in daily use ? I'm looking for quiet tops. Sorry for the off topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
Honestly, I've never noticed any kind of difference myself...once the loop is bled, I couldn't tell you what top is on the pump. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by dengyong
Maybe I am more hard of hearing than I thought (deaf as a post), but once my test loop is bled I can't discern any difference in noise from one top to another on the same pump. :shrug:
Depends on methodics used in testing i guess. After all, part of pump noise is made by air bubbles hitting impeller in not completely bled loop, so depending on if in testing loop has been fully bled or not (sometimes takes long time in some LC setups), noise might differ in tests/daily use.
Yeah, but I am talking about the bench loops too... where I am not changing tops every hour or so.
So you often visit discos / parties with loud music, when you were younger ? ;)
headphones being way too loud and working in a mechanical shop next to my old man with no ear protection as a kid. But I can certainly hear a loop being bled and know when air is present in the pump head. :)
If this is pointed at me, no. I spent much of my "youth" working second shift (3:30 PM to midnight), so I missed out on the party scene. I also dislike headphones because I spent 12 years of my life wearing hearing protectors (rated @ 29dB) at the machine shops I worked at for 8 hrs a day. While not what it probably should be for someone my age (compared to someone that's been living in a low noise environment), my hearing is rather good. I had to get rid of a Shuttle SB61G2R 20th Anniversary Special Edition XPC due to a nasty squeal from a coil on the MoBo and I hear crap a lot of other ppl can't seem to hear. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by bundymania
I was part of punkrock / rockīnīroll bands for 2 decades and hear nothing over 10 KHz (and 2-10 KHz only bad) - but I do still hear the differences of my Laing-tops :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
poor Skinnee ;) Probably you should better use your laboratory equipment to check the differences :rofl:
I'm still waiting for the Creative Labs ear upgrades. ;)
But in all seriousness, I cannot hear a difference in pump tops. Pumps yes, pump tops, no.
My laboratory ;) (btw verified by others)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIu6Ewdxb0I
To my point, you're still bleeding the loop which is evident by the air bubble stream in the tubing.
caught! But no change without bubbles.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
3 EK V2's on 3.2's in series, no trouble at all. And I used to run one of them as a 3.1 on a XSPC restop, also trouble-free.
Does seem a little weird with XSPC tops. Roughly 1 in 4 (25%) with XSPC tops posted dead pumps vs only ~1 in 19 (~5%) with EK tops. Not scientific, but I wont be switching to XSPC tops anytime soon either. (added pumps voted from both threads, + those in posts unaccounted for (ie justin had 8 xspc tops so added 7 for him since he could only vote for 1 xspc), and subtracted duplicates from 2 threads).
No one brave enough to use those XSPC Tripple DDC tops?? I'm gona be putting in 2 with 6 pumps soon. Hopefully everything will be good as i'll be using the older 350/3.1 pumps.
While I originally dismissed needing this side of the info, I started seeing the need for this poll just before this was started and was going to do it but leo beat me to it. I'm just really disappointed that it's nothing more than a generic "what top do you use poll" and fails to go any further than that as far as data collection goes making it rather useless for correlation purposes. For it to be useful, the exact same info should be collected here as in my poll. I may have to do this poll myself if this one can't be fixed.
BringerOdeath and fatcat did, didn't have much luck with them either...though, fatcat was using MCP355's and BOd was using 3.25's.Quote:
Originally Posted by eclypse
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=257298
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=259859
Two systems:
System 1
XSPC Dual-Pump-BayRes (v1)
Rads: PA120.3+RX240+TFC120
Blocks: 1 x XSPC Rasa, 4 x Aquagrafx 470, MIPS P6T7
Tubing: 11/16mm
Fittings: 11/16mm compression
System 2
Standard xspc res/top
Rads: MCR320QP+MCR22QP
Blocks: Heatkiller LT, EK FC460
Tubing: 11/16mm
Fittings: 11/16mm compression
No leaks
Well, the one thing it does do is show that XSPC tops are in wide use, but it doesn't corner the market the way some people have claimed. So far it looks like the XSPC tops are about 50% of the tops out there. It seemed many people believed it would be closer to 80%Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
I can't change it, but I think you can still use the data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
You did not ask on your poll what kind of XSPC top, so you can add the results from the res/top to the regular top.
Sorry to make the wrong options.
I'm confident you can use the data, right now we can tell that XSPC has almost 50% of the tops market (not scientific result).
Leo, I ask the ppl responding to my poll that they mention exactly which version of the top they selected in the poll when they post the info pertaining to the rest of their loop. The reason this is useless for my purposes is the fact that all that's being collected is the top used, I also need the rest of the stuff in the loop to help determine what the flow rate (and by extension, current draw) is in the loop. You would know this if you read my topic. Any votes for tops that don't have the accompanying loop info in a post will be tossed if it is not provided by the end of my poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Suppose I should add that my setup (DDC 3.2 x3,EK V2 tops) was pushing through either a CPU-only loop (various waterblocks), 3 PA120.3's, and later on had a DD Tieton block (low restriction) added in.
I also had a flow meter installed briefly during the CPU-only times, and with a KL-350, flow was about 2.2-2.3gpm, and was presumably somewhat higher with the GTZ and HK3.0 installed.
whats the point u are in RD territory at that point in priceQuote:
Originally Posted by eclypse
2 x DDC3.2 w/ XSPC Res Top for 2 years.
1 Pump died due to bottom of res top leaking between base and top chamber where glued together.
Spent ages trying to find leaks on all my fittings didnt think res would fail :eek:.
I read your topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
The main question were what market share XSPC has, I think it is pretty clear. All critics on your poll was not knowing the market share you cannot say XSPC has a higher failure rate or it is simply the best selling and than has more people with dead pumps.
I'm sure you can use the market share number here and extrapolate to your poll the failure rate. It will be an interesting result to see.
I remember there was a point where the only top that was reccomended was the XPSC. this was before the ek revision 2 was released.
its no wonder that more are failing.
plus you have to remember that the xpsc top is probably a year older than the ek, if not more.
Once again, interesting results so far.
OCM :up:
Please go back to my topic and re-read the first post and please point out to me where I singled out XSPC for market share. The question for the poll was as generic as I could make it and had zero bias for any particular top. My topic (from the start) is an attempt to find some commonality to why DDC's are dying, not to find a failure rate. The info collected here is just raw number of tops in use broken down by manufacturer, that's useless to me as it doesn't tell me what else is in the loop. There may be 10 other loops set up exactly the same as 3 loops that had the pump die but I won't know that if that info isn't collected. Is that really so hard to understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
When I said "question" I meant the question users were doing regarding your topic result.
The main discussion at the forums was that XSPC tops were prone to failure due to some bad design.
People argued that it happened more with XSPC tops due to the market share.
Sorry again if I don't understand your topic but I do understand mine: We will have some pretty raw estimates on market share (don't care about fail or no fail) and it is very useful number to compare to a poll with all DDC failures. Statistically it won't matter if a particular pump was under stress and failed because of it. This could happen with any brand.
we have 102 entries untill now.
The results for market share are:
XSPC 51%
EK 31%
Petra's 9%
other 6%
Koolance 2%
Bitspower 1%
EK Dual top V2 on dual Liang DDC 3.25
OK, let's try this.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Lets say 10 ppl build their systems at the same time with near identical loops, XSPC res top > MCP355 > PA120.3 > EK Supreme HF > res, the only thing different is the fittings (which aren't going to have a great impact on flow rate) so their flow rates are all within a few mL of each other. Now lets say that 3 weeks in, 3 of those ppl have their pumps die but the others all still go strong for their rated lifespan. I want to find out why those 3 died. It couldn't be the flow rate (which is my leading suspect ATM) within the loop because 7 other pumps didn't die, so it has to be something else causing the deaths. It could be a bad batch of MOSFETs, or the shape of the volute in the top is off, or it could be that the PSU was providing to much power...the variables are actually mind staggering. :nuts:
I need complete loop data for both my poll and yours to be able to make any use of the numbers in the poll itself, the poll is nothing more than a quick tally counter and is useless on it's own.
OK, I honestly disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
I don't think you will be able to discover the missing link on the dead laings case with the results on your thread, but I'm supporting your idea.
BTW, the quick tally counter already gave us a rough estimate on market share. :rolleyes: