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I'm going to put together a gpu loop for my 470gtx SLI setup, the area i'm a little confused on is the fittings to join them up. I'm using an Asus P6TD-Deluxe which has quite wide spacing between the cards and seems to mean I can't use any of the fancy ones that ek and aqua computer are selling, I'd rather not use hose and barbs and would prefer something "Solid", any suggestions? I like the compression style stuff but couldn't see anything to fit the bill.
Thanks
Bitspower sells SLI links - crystal tubes of various lenghts for which you also need compatible BP fittings on both ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
Cheers Luke, thanks for the reply, I'd rather keep it solid though, i'm not into the whole bling thing and would rather have a metal or derlin style connection. I really like the one you've used on your build, shame it won't fit.
TFC adjustable vid sli fittings. You'll need a pair. £3 per pack at specialtech.
Solid metal tube 9mm ID and a double o ring seal at each end.
im lost in why u just dont use a dplug like everyone else has been using.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...i/IMG_1309.jpg
There is also the Danger Den bridge that looks like this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_1261.jpg
However i recomend u go the dplug route.
DD are the same as the TFC ones :). Personally I reckon they look a bit cleaner, but the dplug is probably better for flow slightly. What gap can you get with the dplug?
u can always use couplers to extend them out a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
But dplugs come in 3 sizes... mini.. normal. and 1inch.
I had to use 1" on the Classified, if that is any indication. Classified has pretty "standard" slot spacing.
Edit: Looking at a pic of that board, I do not think that 1" is long enough. Maybe the adjustable DD bridge is actually better for you.
which is why i said you use couplers to extend it, like i did in the first picture with my X2's.
The second picture is off an ASUS board so its a standard 2 card spacing.
When it comes to SLI water bridges, i think i was one of the first on the forum to show them off.
And i say this because Koolance was one of the first to introduce them, and i was the brave soul on XS who was testing new koolance stuff out.
While everyone was going hey fever over bitspower.
TBH once you start stacking couplers and d-plugs it starts to look pretty ghetto imo. I prefer the minimalist look :). Not doubting functionality at all, just form ;).
Thanks for the replies chaps, I like the look of the D plug the most but (pardon my ignorance) am unsure of what an extender looks like, is it the part on the bottom that isn't knurled? I'd like the end product to look clean and simple.
PiLsY, the TFC adjustable vid sli fittings look the easiest route, have you used them?
Yeah ive used them for various things - I have 2 x gtx260 in parallel SLI, ive used one to attach an EK DCP2.2 to a drive bay res - also used two as removable bulkhead fittings for an external rad.
The ID is ever so slightly smaller than 1/2" ID tube so flow restriction is minimal.
When you set them up make sure the tube part is an equal distance into each fitting - this is easy due to the "step" in each tube which stops you over-inserting it. Just make sure theres an equal distance between the step and fitting at each end of the tube.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...DSCF0065-1.jpg
So I could two plugs at the top (same as the one on the top right of your pic) have the fittings in the middle the same and have two of the angled fittings on the bottom (same as the ones on the bottom right of your pic) and i'd be good to go? What are those angled compressions you're using?
Yeah you can have both in and out on the bottom - you don't get exactly even flow between the cards, but gfx blocks care little about flow anyway. Temps will be close enough.
The top fitting is a standard TFC 45 rotary compression. The bottom fitting is a Bitspower double snake 90 with a normal TFC comp fitting screwed on.
That TFC rotary and the one on my XT inlet have really taken some abuse over the years and never leaked a drop. Tend to torque the tubes a lot connecting them.
Excellent, thanks for the help!
i use the Koolance adjustable ones, good quality no problems yet
I own the DD SLI Fittings, Koolance SLI Fittings and the Bitspower SLI fittings. I like the Bitspower the best. They look the nicest and the connecting tube diameter is the largest among all the manufactures. You can buy the crystal tubes in whichever length you need.
My cards are in Parallel and only are one slot spacing. Sorry no pictures of the assembled system yet as it isn't quite finished. Right now it's all apart making some phase change modifications at the moment. Here is a pic of the Bitspower links though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...IBitsPower.jpg
ive never seen those bitspower fittings.....wish you wouldnt have posted that my wallet hurts
After a bit of looking around I think I might be able to use the triple slot version of the ek connector. I didn't realise that you could get blanking plates for the middle card connector. Does anyone have one of these? If so could you be so kind and measure the distance between the first and third slots?
I've ordered the main parts for the loop now, an MCR220 Drive, 2 Aqua computer Aqua Graphix 470 blocks, 2 single slot backing plates, some 3/8" black primochill Pro hose and a set of Lian Li Radiator brackets. I'm still procrastinating on fittings, (sad I know).
I'd like a bit of advice on the last of the parts before I order those please.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...er/gpuloop.jpg
Bearing in mind i'm going with the 3/8" ID 5/8" OD hose;
1) Blanking plug
2) Still scratching my head, the distance from pcb to pcb is 60mm so not sure what'll fit now, will have another look.
3) Rotaries
4 & 5) Compressions I'm a bit worried these won't fit the pump? Do you think it'll be ok?
Thanks for the help!
Don't worry about that, it's a habit exhibited by most of XS ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
If the distances from pcb to pcb is 60mm you can use standard sli/cf fittings ;). I really like the looks of the fittings Section8 posted. But any will do fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
Also, I think the MCR Drive was designed to fit compression fittings, though I'm not sure. You can always contact Gabe, who is Swiftech's representative on this forum :).
Sub'd looks like a nice little setup. Keep us posted.
What option did you chose for SLI? D-plugs or the bitspower crystal tubings?? I personally think you should connect one to one, dont go with what PILSY uploaded..
What I ideally would have liked were Matt black fittings throughout and a single correct length Matt black D-Plug for each of the SLI fittings, however, no one in the UK had all the bitspower fittings I needed (especially the SLI stuff) in stock and I couldn't be 100% sure of the correct length for the D Plug until i'd got the block fitted to the card and positioned on the motherboard so...
I went with standard metal finish Bitspower 90˚ rotaries and blanking plugs, Feser compressions and the Variable SLI fittings Pilsy recommended. It's not ideally what I wanted (aesthetically) but i'm really impatient and want to build it over the weekend.
I'll get some pics up once it's all arrived.
HeyQuote:
Originally Posted by Roch
I am on the MCR320 Drive. Frankenstein set up shown here.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=144
They come with 3/8 and 1/2 barbs with different lengths due to the protrusion of the MCP350 pump. I am currently using the barbs with herbies and ziptie.
From what I know, if you are using compressions, you *might* need to use double o-rings due to the way due to the indentation of the mating hole.
You might want to google this and find out for sure.
Wes
Thanks Wesley, i've fired off an email to Swiftech support.
No probs. Be sure to post your findings here, will help us know for sure. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
Wes
I prefer this type of paralell over the bottom because Pilsy is using a real F paralell vs, the bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
Pilsy uses what is called an F paralell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
That means both sides are F's coming together.
A true paralell.
The one above uses pressure on one side to equalibirate the other forcing water to go though both blocks.
It works, but the F will give you more even temps throughout both gpu blocks.
Thanks for the advice, I didn't realise that. The reason for the way i've set it up is purely the shortest and neatest tubing route, will the temps be affected greatly or I we talking a couple of degrees?
NaeKuh: Pilsy's variant seems more common across the builds, then your F one. You don't happen to know some test with both of these variants tested?
I wonder also where SLI/CF parallel bridges eg. like EK's one fit among these variants.
on the gpu side, you wont miss it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
And it wont make your life happier, unless you want to piss off people with the lowest temps.
Well, here is my take on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
Ive tried the F paralell and i like it.
However i dont need it. The advantage of it is 2 bridges for more support.
But i think it just looks messy, and when i need to remove my gpu's it makes things harder for me to get my fingers in.
This type of debate goes all the way back with tri sli paralell nonsense.
Personally i gave up trying to find out who was telling the truth and who wasnt.
Serial = always recomended, you cant mess up, and its what most of us use.
Paralell = recomended when your running multi blocks in the loop. IE. cpu and 2 gpu's.
that has always been my take on paralell.
Gabe has confirmed they're compatible, thanks Gabe!Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley
Thanks, will stick to my plan then.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
F parallel is with the inlet in the top card and the outlet in the bottom?Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I'm thinking of going with the inlet and outlet at the top, because then I don't have to mess about with the wacko ghetto config I have because of the PSU space. But its 4 cards so fairly restrictive, would I benefit from the setup I'm proposing?
its on the other end in the bottom card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffa
You have equal branches in both pathways, by going the way philsy has.
Water comes down and is pushed, and collected on the other side while it flows though.
In the other model, you have a reservior (the left side along with the bridge) which gets filled with pressure and then tries to push water equally though both cards.
As i said... your not going to go OMGWOWZERSBBQ off it.
Personally id honestly say serial everything, unless ur running an insane heat load.
Ummm 3 GTX480 would do it, but its not easy to paralell that.
So id go with serial even on that as well.
I'll be cooling:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
4 x GTX470's
i7@3.8
Dual NF200's and mosfets
Here is a mock up of what I thought would work in a parallel loop:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e...e/parallel.jpg
For ease of use it
Still building at the moment, so just formulating the best config I can with the help of all you fine chaps :up:
OK, so I spent yesterday afternoon putting the loop together. It all went in (although a bit of a squeeze to get it all in) and I've left it over night to leak test, 12 hours so far.
what's bugging me now is the noise. The pump is really loud (it's making a "droning" noise) and there's a large water "whooshing" noise every 10 or so seconds.
If I turn the case on it's front the water noise disappears. I've tried filling it up more but it's as full as it can be. I'm concerned i've done something wrong with the way i've set it up, has anyone got an suggestions, i'm kind of panicking :(.
EDIT: when I put the case on its side the water noise stops completely and the pump quietens somewhat, is this trapped air?
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...r/IMG_0792.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...r/IMG_0789.jpg
Yeah trapped air man. The wooshing noise is air moving around in the rad. Keep tilting, twisting and turning the case and topping up. A small amount of air makes a lot of noise - I doubt its anywhere near as bad as you think :).
The droning noise is likely your pump making the rad vibrate slightly. If you can fix your rad in place with foam blocks it should kill the majority of the noise.
Air bubbles going through the pump sounds like gravel in your loop. The fact that you cant hear this means the air is most likely stuck in the rad. I'd say just use the loop and top it off each day as the last of the air makes its way out. Trapped air doesnt make a huge difference as long as you have good flow.
You can run it with the rad cap undone - itll bleed faster that way. Just undo the cap and place it across the hole to stop dust and crap getting into the water.
Thanks Pilsy, that's sorted it. :clap: The water noise has completely gone and the pumps much quieter. I'm mounting the rad with Lian Li Rad Brackets so I might try and rig something else up to reduce the pump noise further, though compared to before it's fantastic.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...r/IMG_0794.jpg
Fitted and running! Max combustor temp of 47 for the top card and 42 for the bottom one. A problem however, I seem to have a damaged PSU, I kept crashing as soon as I upped the voltage in Afterburner, the screen went blank and had to hard reset, the 24pin ATX plug has two melted pins and blackened a couple of pins in the motherboard socket, do you think the mobo will be ok if I replace the PSU? It's been flaky for a while, I just couldn't nail it down.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...r/IMG_0793.jpg
It "should" be ok but clean those pins up as best you can. What PSU was that?
Temp difference is because the bottom card is getting more flow. As Naekuh explained before you won't get equal flow like that. Temps look just fine though, nice build :).
Here's my own little diagram to explain. MS Paint ftw ;).
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...lelFlowGfx.jpg
Great diagram, PiLsY!
So I'm thinking I might be in for a truck load of variable temps if I have 4 cards setup like Roch.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
4 would be pushing it. If you have inlet and outlet on one card temps will increase the further you go from that card. If you had in and out on card 4 then card 1 would be the hottest.
Biggest problem is its easy to get a big air pocket in the card(s) that arent connected as the water is quite happy to go in and out the same card if its not F style. Youre essentially turning the top cards into an airtrap.
Inlet and outlets on top, say I get all the air out? Still as you get cards further away from the inlet and outlet the cards are going to get warmer I Guess.
Worth a try given the shennanigans I had to jump through to do serial :eek:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e...e/P1080403.jpg
Id say leave the bottom card set up like it is now and set up the top 3 in parallel F. That leaves your inlets and outlets all the same and will reduce a lot of the flow restriction in your loop too. All you need to do is add 2 sli fittings :). Card 1 out > Card 2 out + Card 2 in > Card 3 in would be all you need.
What cards are they? Only ask as the bottom one is at least a different pcb. 3 x 470 + 480?
I still don't get why people want to do serial when parallel supposedly gives the best temps, etc.
Firstly, Roch, sorry if I have barged in on your thread :)
Yes it was 3 x 470 and 1 x 480. With an EK block on the bottom to offset the in/outlets to give me some room to get things connected :)Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
But now the 480 is in my other machine and I have replaced the 4th card with a 470, but I have both an EK block and a AquaGrafx block while I decide what to do. :brick:
I thought I'd test it and see if I can run it like Roch has, and if not I have one of these ordered on the way from Germany. :up:
http://shop.aquacomputer.de/images/p...es/23501_4.jpg
I never even heard about doing parallel until I got on here a few weeks ago.:doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth
It was a Coolermaster CM850, not the greatest out there but pretty good. I thought it would have handled the load, I suppose it just goes to show the power these things use overvolted. I've ordered an Enermax Revolution 1250, that should sort it, i'll use a scalpel to scrape the pins out.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
Thanks for that, you've really been a great help, I was really happy with it (for the time it worked lol) the temps are half what they were which should give me plenty of headroom for better clocks, plus the noisiest thing was the pump as opposed to the two 1700rpm 140mm fans I was running before over the MK13s.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
No Worries Biffa, although you're making me jealous with that hardware :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Biffa
I dont think temps will be even much difference to running them in paralell, if anything dude nothing!, You should compare both though seeming as you're trying out the new paralell setup.. Would be good to see which is hotter n cooler ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffa
Yeah that PSU shouldve been fine. RMA?
At idle, with the ambient around 25°C I'm seeing 40 on the CPU cores and 35-36°C on the GPU cores
With 4 Folding GPU clients and SMP CPU client its reaching 60°C on the CPU cores and 50°C on the GPU's
Interestingly temps across the GPUs are even with only a 1°C difference between them whether idle or under load.
Thats with a Thermochill PA120.3 in the roof with GT 1450's, and a XSPC RX240 in the front with 2 38mm Yate Loons, all fans setup pushing into the case through the rad, and then a single 38mm Yate Loon pushing air out at the back.
Still sounds like I've got some air locks in the loop by the gravel sounds in the res.
You'll likely only see a small difference in temps then - sounds like your setup is working really well already. Personally I'd be happy with what you have ;).
If you go parallel you'll get an increase in flow rates through the cpu block, but with 4 cards each card will be likely be getting approx 1/3 the flow rate it was before (once guesstimate adjusted for flow loss due to restriction of series setup). You will definitely see slightly lower cpu temps due to higher flow. Whether you'll get slightly lower, higher or the same gfx temps though I don't know. You'll have to try it and see :).
But what I've setup is parallel isn't it? I had serial before, one connector between cards, input at the top output at the bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
Now I have two connectors between cards, input at the top left output at the top right.
Is that not parallel?:confused:
It is parallel, if it's as you described.
Phew, thought I was going potty :nuts:Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
On the other hand, I'm testing in a very badly ventilated office and this thing quickly pumped out enough heat to raise the ambient to over 30°C :eek: which in turn meant that the cpu hit 80 but the GPUs are staying steady at <60°C
Wonder if I managed to slot my TFC Xchanger 120 back in if it would help.
The pic you posted (and in your avatar) is connected in serial - I thought that was your current setup?
My bad, current setup is in this thread http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=255431 Still work in progress as you can tell :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by PiLsY
Roach could you try running your CPU at 100% with some stress testing software at the same time as the GPU's and see what sort of temps you get?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch
I'm pushing my setup pretty hard and although the gpu's seem to be fine the cpu is suffering.
Could be I have air in the top rad because its horizontal with the outlets facing down.
Yeah that setup is fine Biffa. If you are happy with the gpu temps then don't sweat running an F parallel setup. Personally I think youre getting really good temps for running 9 blocks in one loop. Good job dude :).
Might be a stupid question, but, what about just using compression fittings and tubing, or barbs, clamps and tubing to connect GPU water blocks?
In my situation, space.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth
I fitted my replacement PSU last night. I think the mobo may be damaged. Windows was corrupted and so I reinstalled Win7 and had another go at overclocking. I managed 850 core on both cards at 1087mv which was furmark extreme burn mode stable at 1920x1080 4xaa, although I was only using 2 1200rpm GT's and the load got up to 65c, still within the comfort zone though and almost silent.
However, even after the reinstall I'm getting the screen go blank and then it restarts, this is randomly at the desktop with no overclock. It didn't like the latest nvidia drivers, as soon as I enabled SLI it went blank and reboot.
I've ordered a replacement.
Bummer, I think it might be a problem with P6T range, my P6T7 has done the same thing with the 24pin pin cpmmctor, but I'm not getting the reboot problems you are having, but it took out a 1500W Thermaltake PSU!
Maybe overvolting the cards is too much for the motherboard, maybe a weak batch or something. Its not just Asus though, EVGA have a similar problem. What they should have done is provided some extra power connectors on the motherboard. Don't think they expected the Fermi power draw :D
Biffa: BS. Motherboards provides 75W by pci-e just like specs tell them to. It's stupid to expect manufacturer passing more there with probably rising risks to burn something. All the extra power cards have to get by their own extra power connectors. If power supplied by them or cooling is not enough, be more sensible with overvolting/overclocking. There is a reason why few gpus like asus ares and alike have more then average extra power connectors. More connectors for pcie (or cpu and so on) makes sense only for increased stability for LN2 setups and alike extremeties with 50-100% overclocks. You have that in boards like ROG3/UD9/SR2.
Hi Churchy,
But it appears that high end 4 way Crossfire and now 3 and 4 way Fermi are asking for more than 75W from PCie, or are going out of PCie spec, especially when overvolted (MSI afterburner) and overclocked.
This is not something specific to crap PSU's or not plugging things in correctly, its not even specific to a brand of motherboard (although I've only seen it on the EVGA and the P6T7 personally.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=243670
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=226942
http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/7709...-gtx-480s.html
Just to let you know - on Asus P6X58D-Premium and P6X58D-E with just standard 24pin + 8pin PSU, I've had no problems supplying insane amount of power:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffa
1.45v for i7 980 @ ~4.7Ghz (so at least ~200W)
1.138v for 3x480 @ ~900Mhz (so at least 225W)
Add to this RAM/wifi card/USB devices/NB+SB and it's pretty astonishing how the board deals with ~500W with no extra cpu or pci power.
I'll be overvolting GPUs to 1.2v this weekend so if you see black clouds over UK it's just smoke from my rig burning :D
Heh, good luck with that! :up:
If you see a mushroom cloud Surrey way, something similar happened to me :)
I just ordered 1850 Scythe GT's because the the 1450s just can't cut the mustard :( Its pretty quiet with the 1450's so I think I'll be able to bear the 1850's
Be interesting to see if its still running when I get home, I left it folding on all 4 cards and the CPU@4.2 Ghz. :eek: and the room its in is no better for ventilation or ambients than it was. Just the extra 120 rad and reworked water flow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffa
lol you're very brave :)
or just getting sauna ready after day of hard work? :)
If there is a smoking-red-molten-rock-hole on the ground where my outside office used to be then Nvidia and Intel will be hearing from my oompalumpahs..:explode2:
Surrey? That's my neck of the woods, i'll be looking overhead, fire extinguisher at hand. :D
Fitted a new motherboard, all seems fine now. This has been an expensive week :(. Still, at least i've got the weekend to properly see how far I can get the cards to clock, does anyone know of any good 470 BIOSs? I'm limited to 1087mv.
Biffa, are you running 3-way SLI with the 4th card devoted to physics? That will give you better performance than 4-way SLI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpabRnBJ3G8&fmt=22